This is the beginning instalment on how to build an AK 47 or one of its many variants at home mind you EVERYTHING here is BATF legal but your actual legality may vary from state to state ,so do you fawking homework before building :D
This is the edited version of the "original" how to build an AK" thread.
DO NOT POST TO THIS THREAD TILL I AM DONE MOVING EVERYTHING !!

First you go an find the type and style of AK that you want to build. I will be building an AMD 65. it is a AK for tankers and armored vehicles so it has a VERY short barrel and rear folding stock.
You can search threw a wide assortment of websites for what is called a "parts kit"
you see will all the gobernment red tape the whole AK cant make it here. The receiver (the body of a weapon) must be cut in 3 diagonal slices,with a gas torch,and must remove at least 1/8inch of material in the cut. basically making it worthless. but if you go and remove all the parts from the rifle and put them aside you can torch the reciever and just have "parts" that are legal for import (for now anyway)
This is basically what a parts kit includes (my handguards an pistol grip are not in the pic)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171851&stc=1
It will include everything but a receiver. Mind you you just cant add a receiver and be done. legal crap to deal with first. but lets strip the gun for prep.
I will be doing a screwed together build. IE; tap and screw. you can also rivet it back together if you have the tools or even weld it if you trust you plug welds. I will screw it first and if it sucks i will weld it :flipoff2:
First remove the old rivets
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171850&stc=1
the front and rear trunnions (cross members) have rivets.you will want to grind them flush so you can drill in the exact (or close to) center of them.
the rear can be drilled strait threw as there is nothing in the way but the front 4 MUST be stop checked so you dont drill into the barrel :eek:
all the AK forums i wet to had these annoying drill/check/drill/check methods that sucked. i just put the trunnion in the vice,made it level, set my stop to what the barrel depth is (you can see the chamber sticking out in front of the trunnion) and then drilled my pilot holes and then larger.
The old holes are PERFECT to tap to 10-32. but you can run the correct drill size before just to be sure
Tap the trunnions. i had a regular 10-32 tap and a bottoming one ($5 at grainger) the bottoming ones are used in the front 4 holes (obviously)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171853&stc=1
the guys on the AK forums bitched of breaking taps :confused: umm use some fucking tap lube,clear the chips or something :shaking:
and here are the screws in place
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171852&stc=1
You can order sets of screws already the right size (www.gunbroker.com) or grind some and then get the correct size.
size WILL vary depending on the receiver you use

Ok next step is to make you AK variant BATF legal :D
by ATF rules you can not have more than 10 imported parts in your "evil black guns" an AK when it left the factory had from 14-16 "parts by definition" in it
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or
stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Mounting blocks (trunnions)
(4) Muzzle attachments
(5) Bolts
(6) Bolt carriers
(7) Gas pistons
(8) Triggers
(9) Hammers
(10) Disconnectors
(11) Buttstocks
(12) Pistol grips
(13) Forearm handguards
(14) Magazine body
(15) Followers
(16) Floorplates

A milled rifle without a muzzle brake has 14 parts because it doesn't have a trunnion. The part that serves that purpose is built in to the receiver.

With a muzzle brake makes 15.

A stamped rifle without a muzzle brake has 15 parts. Pesky trunnion.

With a brake 16.

so if you replace 5 or 6 parts you end up with a "legal" US weapon :evil:
so i will be replacing the pistol grip and foregrip
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171858&stc=1
trigger group (or fire control modual)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171856&stc=1
also the gas tube. but in order to remove the gas tube you must remove the pin that is holding it. find it and drill or knock it out. go and find a drill bit exactly the same size. slide it on the bit in your press and vice it so the drill bit is inline with both holes. screw the new gas piston in leaving a little gap (same as the old one) and cross drill it. then pin it back in place.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171857&stc=1
also an ADM 65 is NOT LEGAL in its current barrel length of 12.5 inches. so you must extend it to 16 inches. I used a www.tapco.com muzzle brake that does 2 things. first it replaces a part :D and makes it legal length :flipoff2:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171859&stc=1
and put a tack weld or silver solder it so it wont come off

the next step will be putting all the parts into the reciever. I will cover this when i get my recievers :flipoff2: :laughing:

but here are some options:
a reciever when "finished " is a FFL item and must be transfered by FFL. BUT you can make your own :evil:
the reason being is YOU,YES YOU can make ANY FAWKING WEAPON YOU WANT (as long as its not a short shotgun/rifle or fully auto fo the most part)

as long as you dont sell it or get rid of it :D

there are many companys out there that sell "80%" finished recievers or "reciever flats" these are great if you plan on making a shitload because you will need a pressing die to bend them up. great if you and a bunch of your friends want AK's
Next option is "lazer cut flats" these are pre-scored and easy to fold (the reciever is realy just a fawkin box) and you weld the edges after you fold it.
with eather of these you will want to heat treat all the holes/extractor/stuff when done.

not hard AT ALL ...but i am fawking lazy :flipoff2:

I am waiting for my FFL info to get back to me so i can send the check.

being as an ohio ordanance reciever is only $59 i cant argue :p
i will cover the finish from there once it comes in and now will answer questions :laughing:

can you get sick more often?
no, now fawk off :laughing: :flipoff2: this is what happens when you are to sick to sleep

you gonna do one of these for an AR?
no. an AR variant is a little more of a bitch to finish a reciever "in the white" or 80% done. i dont have a milling machine so if i did an AR i would buy a reciever


great post! how about a tally of how much coin you have in it so far?
i will round up to whole dollars
AMD 65 parts kit $70
us made grip $20 (you can get others for like $6)
us made forend $20 (you can use other ones also or just replace the pistol grip on an AMD65 with another US made pistol grip)
fire control group $30
gas piston $20
muzzle brake $20
screws taps and drill bits $15
reciever $60

so for around $255 i can build a US legal AMD65 that is tuned and made EXACTLY how i want it :D

you an actualy do a "regular" AK for less and even less more if you frequent gun shows

for those intrested in bending thier own reciever here is
a link to where they sell them (https://www.vbd.com/noc/shop/)

and here is an ar15.com build up using those flats
Link (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=51&t=65328&page=1)

anyone know if the building it yourself makes it legal in Kali?
you can have any weapon purchaced or made as long as it doesnt violate CA's anal retentive codes
so no folding stock,high cap mags, pistol grip (i think) must be pink or orange in color and have child safty warnings in green letters on the side :laughing:
mine is built off national rules and maryland rules (hence you WILL NOT SEE any mags with a capacity greater than 20 rounds in any of my pics)

check your local laws, google is your friend

whered you find the parts kit for $70?

whered you find the parts kit for $70?

www.centerfiresystems.com

i believe they may be sold out. i got a killer deal as they fawked up on my order and made it up by "hand picking" 2 kits for me.
by having an order hand picked you usualy get a better finish (doesnt realy matter if you are refinishing the weapon) the gas block and sight will be strait instead of slightly off axis from shipping/abuse (not a hard fix to do but it is still extra work)
www.cheaperthandirt.com still had some AMD65 kits i believe.

search "ak parts kit" in google and you will get a bunch of hits

Can some kind soul answer some newbie questions?


...err what is the point of all this?

I mean I thought the whole point of an AK being so cool, was that it could go full auto at the flip of a switch.

So I don't quite understand all this effort and "letter of the law" circumnavigation to build an AK that is going to be hideously illegal if it's made into a switchable machine gun.

If it's mearly just built to have a "legal" rifle, based on getting around laws meant to prevent them from being sold to people who want machine guns, and you *aren't* going to make it a fully automatic gun????

:confused:

Are AK's just so good that all this effort is worth it for a rifle?

Don't get me wrong, I like machine guns :D I just don't quite follow the reasoning, that's all.

Can some kind soul answer some newbie questions?


...err what is the point of all this?

I mean I thought the whole point of an AK being so cool, was that it could go full auto at the flip of a switch. no, i am NOT building a full auto weapon

So I don't quite understand all this effort and "letter of the law" circumnavigation to build an AK that is going to be hideously illegal if it's made into a switchable machine gun.actualy if you want a full auto you just have to apply for one and pay the tax stamp

If it's mearly just built to have a "legal" rifle, based on getting around laws meant to prevent them from being sold to people who want machine guns, and you *aren't* going to make it a fully automatic gun????no, i want an AK and the ones that are fully built are eather overpriced or crap :flipoff2:

:confused:

Are AK's just so good that all this effort is worth it for a rifle?

Don't get me wrong, I like machine guns :D I just don't quite follow the reasoning, that's all.

like i said if i wanted a full auto i would just appy and pay the tax stamp but i just wasnt a SEMI-AUTO AK that i can build for less than half of what is wanted,with better parts,better fit and finish (because i control it) and the fact i built the fawker myself :laughing:
and like i said if i built my reciever i would have a completely LEGAL weapon with no one but myself knowing i had it :blackhelocopters:

whered you find the parts kit for $70?

so far it looks like everyone is sold out :( i still see some people selling them for around that price on www.gunbroker.com and also the for sale forum on the ak forums on www.gunsnet.net.

check to see when the next gun show is comming by in your area also

Today's update:

Like i said before, in order for these weapons to be BATF legal they MUST have a barrel length of 16inches. The muzzle brake/ barrel extention for these weapons ONLY must be welded or silver soldered in place.

This is not the rule with a traditional AK variant as the barrel length is over 16 inches and you may change the muzzle brake/flash suppressor as you wish when you wish.

Mine are tack welded in place, the weld is deep enuf that it wont crack/move/do shit but i could drill it out later if i need to.

anyone know if the building it yourself makes it legal in Kali?

No, it doesn't. The California AWB is based on removable magazines, plus any of the evil features, which include pistol grips. If you owned one before 2000, you had to get it registered and then could not transfer in within Cali.
For the most part, building something yourself does not change whether you can legally possess it or not.

California-legal guns can have removeable magazines, but none of the other features, like Mini-14's and M1a's. And magazines are limited to 10 rounds, with the transfer of even pre-bans being illegal.
Or one evil feature with a fixed magazine Like the FAB-10 (http://www.fabten.com/)
Or none of those fun things, ex: SKS's and M1 Garands.

WTF?
Build an AK 47 from parts cut from another one?

Why not just buy an AK-47 complete? I can go to Dougs Shootin' Sports 2 blocks from where I live, plunk down $250 for a german made AK-47...

WTF?
Build an AK 47 from parts cut from another one?

Why not just buy an AK-47 complete? I can go to Dougs Shootin' Sports 2 blocks from where I live, plunk down $250 for a german made AK-47...

what reciever is it built on? what US compliance parts are used? what is its model designator? Who built it?



go and TRY to find me an AMD65 for less than $600 or fawk a draganov for less than $800

:::edit:::: the only AK you can get for under $250 is not german made but a romanian Wasr 10 low cap. so if you want to run high cap mags you need to modify the magwell. they dont have a threaded barrel,bayonette lug and usualy a stupid keyhole stock but not always.

they are a nice "starter" ak.

for those of you that would like a nice "starter" AK variant,or have no mechanical skills, or just want to own a POS like everyone elses here is a link for you Atlantic Firearms (http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=4)
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/admin/images/content/WASR10PACKAGE.jpg

mind you it doenst take high cap mags but that can be fixed with a Dremel tool :evil:

for those of you that would like a nice "starter" AK variant,or have no mechanical skills, or just want to own a POS like everyone elses here is a link for you

mind you it doenst take high cap mags but that can be fixed with a Dremel tool :evil:


One of the main concerns I've seen from the WASR 10s, aside from canted sights and gas tubes, is mag wobble. Since the reciever does not have the "dimples" stamped on either side of the mag well to keep the mags steady. Some people say it's a problem, some don't have that problem at all. Guess it just depends on the rifle...

update for today while waiting on the recievers:

peep (ghost ring) sights are few and far to choose from for AK's. all the ones i have found are eather too low or way to fawking pricey ...or both :flipoff2:

welcome to the free AK47 peep sight :D I looked on the floor till i found a piece of steel, drilled a small hole in it, ground the old sight blade flat, welded it on. then i drilled it out till i got a hole size that made my eyes happy :p

dremeled it till i was happy with the shape.

hey WTF is this crap i read? is this true? does this mean i now have to buy the barrell additionally?= more money involved? fawk i knew i needed to order this earlier

***BuyNow! $99.97*** NEW ATF RULING! BARRELS CAN NO LONGER BE INCLUDED WITH IMPORTED AK47 PARTS KITS. ***NO MORE KITS CAN BE IMPORTED WITH BARRELS AFTER 9-10-05!*** Romanian GP1975 AK47 Parts Kit-in EXCELLENT CONDITION! These feature Threaded Barrels, front laminated wood pistol grip, original slant muzzle break, bayonet lug, and laminated wood butt stock. DOES NOT INCLUDE RECEIVER! (Receiver is torch cut per ATF specs). Bores are bright and shiny, in Excellent Condition! These spare/replacement parts kits come with all of the parts you see in the pictures. ***NO FFL NEEDED!*** Questions? gerrys@shooterswholesale.com or call Gerry at 208.895.0224 Money orders, certified checks, personal/business checks, COD, and BidPay (www.bidpay.com). Buyer pays $20 s&h to the lower 48 states. Sold as replacement/spare parts only, all NFA rules apply. Please check all federal, state and local laws before bidding. PRICES WILL GO UP SOON! ***BuyNow! $99.97***


link

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=37257968

hey WTF is this crap i read? is this true? does this mean i now have to buy the barrell additionally?= more money involved? fawk i knew i needed to order this earlier

***BuyNow! $99.97*** NEW ATF RULING! BARRELS CAN NO LONGER BE INCLUDED WITH IMPORTED AK47 PARTS KITS. ***NO MORE KITS CAN BE IMPORTED WITH BARRELS AFTER 9-10-05!*** Romanian GP1975 AK47 Parts Kit-in EXCELLENT CONDITION! These feature Threaded Barrels, front laminated wood pistol grip, original slant muzzle break, bayonet lug, and laminated wood butt stock. DOES NOT INCLUDE RECEIVER! (Receiver is torch cut per ATF specs). Bores are bright and shiny, in Excellent Condition! These spare/replacement parts kits come with all of the parts you see in the pictures. ***NO FFL NEEDED!*** Questions? gerrys@shooterswholesale.com or call Gerry at 208.895.0224 Money orders, certified checks, personal/business checks, COD, and BidPay (www.bidpay.com). Buyer pays $20 s&h to the lower 48 states. Sold as replacement/spare parts only, all NFA rules apply. Please check all federal, state and local laws before bidding. PRICES WILL GO UP SOON! ***BuyNow! $99.97***


link

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=37257968

the ban is on "pause" for now till Dec.

Is an SVD built on a regular AK receiver?
I have never been a big fan of the AK, shot plenty of FA ones, but never really had a desire for my own.
But I loved the SVD. Just something about the "look" I really like. Plus its fun as hell to shoot.
With the show this weekend I thought I might look around for parts.

Is an SVD built on a regular AK receiver?
I have never been a big fan of the AK, shot plenty of FA ones, but never really had a desire for my own.
But I loved the SVD. Just something about the "look" I really like. Plus its fun as hell to shoot.
With the show this weekend I thought I might look around for parts.

a "true" SVD and not a Romanian PSL uses its own style of reciever but they are available.

So you like the "Dragonov" look to the weapon ? in that case get a romanian or any other dragonov looking AK that is on a STAMPED reciever and build away :D If the sides of the trunnion are smooth like the ones in my pics they can be built on any reciever flat. if it has a "bump" over the top rivit area on the front trunnion than it requiers a special reciever but its not difficult to get at all.

If its milled... well you will need a milled reciever and some decent gunsmithing skills. still not hard but you will need to set headspacing

Did I miss it or did you never share with us the actual finishing of the AMD65?
Did you get the recievers?
Hows the final product look?

yes, actualy any of the pics with a gun on APRILRAZZ's ass is the finished AMD :flipoff2:

i got impaitent and didnt photograph the finishing :emb:

http://tawayama.com/gunpics/docspics/aim8x10two.jpg

http://tawayama.com/gunpics/docspics/akbutt.jpg

I can get more pics if ya want. its finished in baked on rustoleum textured paint :evil: TOUGH shit

ok fine :flipoff2:
FIT AND FINISH FOR FINAL ASSEMBLY!!

I will cover the 2 different styles of AK receivers and what is needed for fitting
The 2 styles are : pre-drilled holes and no holes :flipoff2: they both require similar fitment.

The only "really important" fit area is the magazine lockup. you will require a few mags to do this.
Install the trigger guard/mag catch. you may need to hone out the holes so the screws fit. make sure that you include the selector lever stop (the little plate with tab that goes under the mag catch end) and tighten it down.
Look into the magwell and make sure there is nothing in the way of the dimples. Joken brand receivers have a little metal tab on the inside that needs to be ground flush to the height of the magwell dimple.
slide the front trunnion into the receiver till the front edge of the trunnion is flush with the front edge of the receiver.

This is your starting point

use a small "C" clamp to squeeze the sides of the receiver and lock the trunnion so it dont move. Insert the mag and check the fit. (AK mags insert front first and rock back to lock)

IMPORTANT NOTE : not all AK mags are the same. every country fits a little different. The only ones that fit really well ALL THE TIME is foreign made plastic mags. NOT U.S. MADE ONES !!! they suck, dont buy them. if you find a mag that doent fit later on remove metal from the magazine locking tab NOT the AK locking lever.

ok back on subject.
Insert mags and move the trunnion front to back till you get good lockup that is solid but not loose. and mark the receiver and trunnion with a paint marker or something so you know EXACTLY where the front trunnion needs to be.
next part: Drilling

Everyone has there different methods for drilling but i will tell you what i do and it works well with little to no odd shaped holes.
(with pre-drilled receivers skip this step)
i will measure with a caliper where EACH hole is on the receiver and then center punch that same location on the receiver. just use the channel in the trunnion as the top edge and get a X/Y location of each hole.
Do this for both sides, DO NO DRILL STRAIT THREW !!! sometimes the holes are not in the same location.

Drill it threw with a drill bit a good size smaller than what your final hole will be.

Insert the trunnion to its mark and clamp it in place.

now using a Dremel tool (you do have one right? you better get one) with the TUNGSTEN CARBIDE CUTTER
http://www.dremel.com/html/images/products/bits/large/9901.gif
(all others suck for this use) and grind out the hole to fit your tapped trunnion hole perfectly :D Just stick it in the thickness of the receiver only so you dont fuck up your nice threads.

and do the same for the pre-drilled ones as the holes may be off a little.

Rear trunnion: as long as you can get the dust cover on its in the correct spot.


NOW FOR FINAL ASSEMBLY TIPS :
I go and mix up some "regular" JB weld and put a thin smear on the trunnion before i side it in. I also put a good sized glob in the threaded holes before I tighten the screws and wipe off the excess. The JB weld with lock the fuck ut of the screw better than any locktight. it also is good to like 500* so you can still use bake on finishes.

You may need to remove some metal on the selector switch to get it to fit right. Either from the skinny space on the selector or off the "bump" on the inside of the receiver. If you got this far I am pretty sure you can figure out what needs to be done there :flipoff2:

Fire control group assembly goes like this: hammer first, next selector switch, then trigger. Lose that fucking "shepherd's crook" wire thingie and get some clips to fit the pins from the hardware store :laughing:


any questions please post up and i will gladly help and post any pics.

Thank you.

Thank you.

oh and there is a 3rd option :evil:

weld the bitch :grinpimp:


locate the trunnion as above, clamp tight, drill NEW holes in the trunnion, plug weld (weld the top edge too if your good with a welder or can TIG)
gind smooth and fire away :flipoff2:

my next one will be a weld

Finally getting everything all together. I don't have a FFL, so I have to get the cut flat reciever and fold it myself.
few questions though.

I'm gogint to buy the one with the rails. where do they go on this flat reciever?
How do you heat treat this?
A mig work on this guy and then grind it down?
thanks for your help!

Finally getting everything all together. I don't have a FFL, so I have to get the cut flat reciever and fold it myself.
few questions though.

I'm gogint to buy the one with the rails. where do they go on this flat reciever?
How do you heat treat this?
A mig work on this guy and then grind it down?
thanks for your help!

right behind the magwell dimples . the rails go there. the "square: one on the right the "shark fin" one on the left if you are looking at it from the top with the magwell to the front. the "fin" looking one is the extractor the other is a guide. they go flat top up. there should be a template with it. you will want to plug weld them in place or if you know someone with a spot welder it makes life suck less. If you run into problems post and i will see what i can do.

Heat treating the ghetto doc fortin way :flipoff2:
Items needed:
5lbs of salt (kosher salt is cheap)
bag of clean playground sand
bottle of Dawn liquid
magnet pickup thingie or a magnet on a stick

finish your receiver (bend/weld) weld on your rails, drill your trunnion holes as described before.
Mix the salt and Dawn in a 5 gallon bucket of hot water (to dissolve the salt) this is your quench bath. find a big pan to be able to cover the entire receiver with at least 2 inches of sand all the way around. this is your annealing tool. turn your home oven on to bake at 500*

the areas tempered are the fire control group holes and the extractor edge that faces forward.

Get a MAPP/oxy or oxy/act torch. heat up them until a bright orange/red color and a magnet will no longer stick to the red hot areas (around 1600*) and IMEDIATLY quench in the bath till cool. do ONE SIDE AT A TIME. dance the torch between the 2 holes so you can do them both at the same time and not untemper the hole you just did :D
heat,stick magnet, heat, stick, heat, no stick, quench

once all holes are done then bury it in the pan with sand and stick in the oven till it reaches 500* and then TURN OFF THE OVEN ! and walk away.
remove it when cool

Doc,
did you use screws on the trigger guard as well?

I have all the plans for the folding jig and the rivit jig. Just need to pick up some 3/4" after work tomorrow.

Should I put the jig photos here to keep it all related or start a new thread?

Thanks again for all the help
Pete

the cheap one for $99 from http://www.centerfiresystems.com/
got the reciever from tapco.
screw from the gun broker.
and the rest I will get the 14th at knob creek machine gun shoot

Doc,
did you use screws on the trigger guard as well?

I have all the plans for the folding jig and the rivit jig. Just need to pick up some 3/4" after work tomorrow.

Should I put the jig photos here to keep it all related or start a new thread?

Thanks again for all the help
Pete

ALL SCREW get the whole kit from him : http://fng.mystarband.net/screwkit/ScrewKit.html

post it up here as i may want to bend some flats or "rent" yours from you depending on how well it works :flipoff2:

NEWMANS OWN: that kit will work perfect. i have one sitting next to me

Oil quenching is generally prefered to the brine quench, but there is little real difference.

A note on the trigger gaurd. Do not tap the trigger gaurd or the selector lever stop, only tap the receiver. Red Loctite works great for keeping the receiver and trunions screwed. I have several thousand rounds through my first screw build and none of the screws have backed out or even budged. Also withe locktite all you have to do is heat it up to the release temp and it will easily screw out. It is 400* for the red.

As for the Sumi kit, the only legal thing you can build with it is a very deactivated dummy gun. It is an open bolt design and well unless you need a 9mm barrel there is really no point.
If you plan on doing a build, make sure you have your compliance parts factored into the budget. The tapco G-2 trigger group works very well, but is $40. The Century FCG is garbage.

Oil quenching is generally prefered to the brine quench, but there is little real difference.

A note on the trigger gaurd. Do not tap the trigger gaurd or the selector lever stop, only tap the receiver. Red Loctite works great for keeping the receiver and trunions screwed. I have several thousand rounds through my first screw build and none of the screws have backed out or even budged. Also withe locktite all you have to do is heat it up to the release temp and it will easily screw out. It is 400* for the red.

As for the Sumi kit, the only legal thing you can build with it is a very deactivated dummy gun. It is an open bolt design and well unless you need a 9mm barrel there is really no point.
If you plan on doing a build, make sure you have your compliance parts factored into the budget. The tapco G-2 trigger group works very well, but is $40. The Century FCG is garbage.

oil quench is just a little slower but we are nit-picking a friggen AK here :laughing:
The screw kit i listed comes with thin nuts to use on the trigger guard. Another option is to take some 1/8 stock and make a "plate" to fit inside the reciever drilled/tapped for ALL 4 of the front guard screws. no stress, lots of thread, easy.

I use JB weld as my loctite as i bake my finishes on at 400* when assembled. :D they dont move at all :laughing:

Could you post a pic of the finished one? if you don't mind.

Going to center fire on the 14th its only half an hour away and never new.

Could you post a pic of the finished one? if you don't mind.

Going to center fire on the 14th its only half an hour away and never new.

this one?
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2880/dsc00119kv.jpg

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5856/dsc00152kq.jpg

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392681

I was too busy this week to get the steel to build my bending jig,so this weekend I started to work on my rear sight. Docs peep site gave me the idea.
I am going to cut the stock blade off the rear sight and braze this in its place.
A 1" long 4-40 cap screw resides in the center. The end of it will get attached to the drum with a 2-56 set screw. Turn the drum and the site moves side to side.
Its got a full .4" movement side to side.
I will scribe a mark under the peep site and then scribe a scale onto the main tube (purple part).
The barell is going to have a small spring loaded ball bearing in it and then the plate it rides against will have 4 dimples in it.
I need to sit down and do some trig and figure out how much one full rotation of the 4-40 screw moves the rear site and from there calculate the bullet movement at 100 yrds. I will the plan for the dimples for the windage drum if I can get something like 1 click = 1moa.

Here I am putting the knurls in the windage drum and parting off the drum from the stock.

...so this weekend I started to work on my rear sight.



Gonna look a lot like the sight Doc made for me :D

crappy webcam photo--it's all I got:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6775/sight7jg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

You also need some new knurling wheels. but it looks good

and i need a lathe :laughing:

:flipoff2: That is a new one. But its just a $5 ebay special. I do need to get a real set up. Would like to get a pair of diagonal wheels so I can do diamonds.
But for now it will work.
Lathe is another ebay special. $100 Sherline. Does great for the guns and RC stuff. Plus a great way to learn.
Tritium tube you say, sounds interesting.

Did the math on the site. If I do 6 clicks per one full turn it works out to 1MOA.
Pete

ok a couple questions for the dummy here.

whats an ffl consist of?
once you get one do you have to renew it or get a new one every ___?
if you build one of these legal guns can you sell it if you have to?
how do you register it, since you built it in your garage, where is the serial #

ok a couple questions for the dummy here.

whats an ffl consist of?
once you get one do you have to renew it or get a new one every ___?
if you build one of these legal guns can you sell it if you have to?
how do you register it, since you built it in your garage, where is the serial #

get an FFL : call your local BATF, get forms, fill out forms, pay $200wait.....wait some more.....maybe get approved :D

selling a AK WITH a registered reciever (ie: serial number)
sell like any other rifle.


selling an AK without a serial number (make from a flat or your own reciever)
CAN NOT BE SOLD !!!!!!

if you build one of these legal guns can you sell it if you have to?
how do you register it, since you built it in your garage, where is the serial #

If you buy a 100% complete receiver, then you must purchase it through a licensed dealer, someone that holds a current FFL. Since the receiver has the # on it, thats the # for the entire weapon. And as such you can sell it but you need to check your local laws.

If you do your build from an uncomplete receiver, ie a flat you bend yourself, there is no number on it and you don't need to deal with an FFL for any of the parts. It is still a perfectly legal weapon. But you might run into issues if you start building weapons and selling them with out getting a manufactures license and paying the tax on the weapons. Just one I wouldn't worry about it, you can sell it. But don't start making one a month and trying to sell them unless you want to spend time in fed lockup.

get an FFL : call your local BATF, get forms, fill out forms, pay $200wait.....wait some more.....maybe get approved :D

selling a AK WITH a registered reciever (ie: serial number)
sell like any other rifle.


selling an AK without a serial number (make from a flat or your own reciever)
CAN NOT BE SOLD !!!!!!


ok whats BATF
buerue of ATF?
cna you re-register a gun, like building a vehicle from the junkyard?

ok whats BATF
buerue of ATF?
cna you re-register a gun, like building a vehicle from the junkyard?

yes B of ATF.

if it has no serial number and you want it to have a serial number you must get the appropriate tax stamp to become a manufacturer of that particular weapon (firearm manufacturer, any other weapon manufacturer (short barreled weapons) or full auto manufacturer )

All you gun nuts should also be checking out one of my websites, and feel free to contribute tutorials such as this one there too:

http://perfectunion.com

Doc, since I'm an AK newbie what are the "better mags"? I ordered my kit, but since I live where I live they had to keep the mag. Is a Mag necessary to make the folding Receivers?


We need a newbie step by step guide:flipoff2:

Doc, since I'm an AK newbie what are the "better mags"? I ordered my kit, but since I live where I live they had to keep the mag. Is a Mag necessary to make the folding Receivers?


We need a newbie step by step guide:flipoff2:

yes you WILL NEED A MAG !!!! thats how you determine the front trunnion location. too far out and the mag will wobble/fall out. too close and it wont fit.
the best magazines are the FORIENG MADE plastic mags (Bulgarian waffle, Finnish waffle, Finnish valmet, etc) the U.S. made plastic ones (US Mag) suck balls
Those ones will fit most anything PERFECT !!

now any of the steel ones will work but they may require fitting. Fitting means sanding off some of the "duckbill" that sticks out of the mag. always adjust the magazine NEVER the magazine catch on the rifle.

yes you WILL NEED A MAG !!!! thats how you determine the front trunnion location. too far out and the mag will wobble/fall out. too close and it wont fit.
the best magazines are the FORIENG MADE plastic mags (Bulgarian waffle, Finnish waffle, Finnish valmet, etc) the U.S. made plastic ones (US Mag) suck balls
Those ones will fit most anything PERFECT !!

now any of the steel ones will work but they may require fitting. Fitting means sanding off some of the "duckbill" that sticks out of the mag. always adjust the magazine NEVER the magazine catch on the rifle.

Crap, well I guess I'll have to wait till I'm in WA state:(

Hey Doc -

picked up Polish underfoder at the show yesterday... knowing it's a little more work to do all the rear holes. - have you heard anything about these FFL Underfolder receivers (http://nodakspud.com/page2.htm)

still planning on a OOR, but I thought this 'might' save me some :mad3: on my first build.

EDIT: guess these are called 'dci' only a few reviews (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=75948), but I think I may try it.

Hey Doc -

picked up Polish underfoder at the show yesterday... knowing it's a little more work to do all the rear holes. - have you heard anything about these FFL Underfolder receivers (http://nodakspud.com/page2.htm)

still planning on a OOR, but I thought this 'might' save me some :mad3: on my first build.

EDIT: guess these are called 'dci' only a few reviews (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=75948), but I think I may try it.

well those receivers are for Yugoslavian underfolders. note the "bulge" at the top of the front trunnion. if your front trunnion is flat it will NOT work.

aso those are some HUGE magwell dimples :laughing:

well those receivers are for Yugoslavian underfolders. note the "bulge" at the top of the front trunnion. if your front trunnion is flat it will NOT work.

aso those are some HUGE magwell dimples :laughing:


I knew it was too good to be true :shaking:


Any input on Ohio vs. Global trades (1.0mm) Thanks.

I knew it was too good to be true :shaking:


Any input on Ohio vs. Global trades (1.0mm) Thanks.

My AMD is built on an Ohio. only problem isthe safty lever hole is around 1/8in too high so you have to notch the "inside" lever to get it to engage on the FCG correctly. not hard, but a note.

never tried global trades 1.0 or 1.3 (the thick one that requires milling of the trunnion)

The other ones i have are JOKEN and they rock fully. other than the slight fitting needed in the magazine well (piece of metal i think was overlooked in the design) they were the best i used.

The other ones i have are JOKEN and they rock fully. other than the slight fitting needed in the magazine well (piece of metal i think was overlooked in the design) they were the best i used.



Really?

So does this mean JoeKen has turned around as far as customer service and quality control goes? I've read dozens of horror stories from people doing buisiness with JoeKen, as well as FFL Dealers having problems with them too. I haven't have any personal experiences with them, but was just curious....

Really?

So does this mean JoeKen has turned around as far as customer service and quality control goes? I've read dozens of horror stories from people doing buisiness with JoeKen, as well as FFL Dealers having problems with them too. I haven't have any personal experiences with them, but was just curious....

shipping was the only suck i had. just make sure you ask "are they in stock? are you shipping them today?"
I ordered 4 at a time and they had 3 in stock but never let me know that I was waiting on one.

quality was good. receivers were square and strait. only problem was the piece of metal sticking out to far near the magwell dimple, but this was on ALL the gen2.
other "problems" (i dont see them as one) the FCG holes need the flash removed a little and the ejector needs to be fitted to your specific weapon

shipping was the only suck i had. just make sure you ask "are they in stock? are you shipping them today?"
I ordered 4 at a time and they had 3 in stock but never let me know that I was waiting on one.

quality was good. receivers were square and strait. only problem was the piece of metal sticking out to far near the magwell dimple, but this was on ALL the gen2.
other "problems" (i dont see them as one) the FCG holes need the flash removed a little and the ejector needs to be fitted to your specific weapon


Most of the stories I've read involved shipping issues, or shipping rifles that were junk/poor quality etc. I hadn't heard anything regarding just their receivers. Glad you're having a somewhat good experience with them...

Well I have totally disassembled the first kit. I pressed out the barrel and removed the front sight, gas block, and rear sight from the barrel.
The wood on this kit is in very nice condition so I am still not sure how I want to finish the rifle. Thinking about polishing all of the metal and blueing and do a good job on the wood finish so I end up with a 'display' quality weapon.

Regarding the front trunnion and a screw build. I was amazed at how thin the metal is. it doesn't look like you would get more then 1.5 complete threads in the trunion.
I know from reading all the various build sites that tons of folks are doing screw builds with out any problems, but still seems like it's too thin.

Later
Pete

Yeah I picked up a Tapco reciever.
I also found an online metal supplier that sells 6"x12" sheets of the exact same alloy and thickness as the Tapco flat for 1$.
Thinking about ordering some and trying out my hand at making the entire receiver myself.

Hm. Sounds.... illegal.

Hm. Sounds.... illegal.

thats where you are WRONG !!!!!

read this thread from the begining and come back when you are done :flipoff2:

OK, the box full of 4130 plates showed up yesterday. Cleaned one off and blued it. Layed out all of the holes and openening. Holes have been drilled.
Will use a small cut off and Dremel tonight and do the mag and trigger opening.
I have the steel for my bending jig, but have not put it together yet.
Also got the stuff so I can make some press plates to form the mag dimples. Hopefully can get the jigs made upthis weekend and actually bend up a receiver.
Then I can assemble a weapon and perform a function check to ensure that all the measurements I am using are correct.
If everything works out I plan on taking a fresh plate and after doing the layout only drill small 1/8" holes. This will then be the master plate and I will use an auto center punch to layout all the remaining plates.

Just to clarify as long as I do not make a full auto or short barreled rifle I am allowed, by law, to make the entire rifle myself at home in the garage with out paying taxes, fees, or registering anything.

Thinking about getting a larger lathe. The Ak family of barrels are very basic. Can get some 7.62 rifled blanks and then a chamber reamer. Make the profile for any version I want then (PKM, SVD, etc). Just need to make up gas tubes and gas pistons to match the length.
With the upcoming import barrel ban I think we will see a great market for AK barrells. Figure 50$ profit per barrel, sell 40 of em and will pay for the Lathe. After that its all profit. hmmmm.

Pete

pardon my ignorance.

do you need an FFL to sell this stuff to others??

Just to clarify as long as I do not make a full auto or short barreled rifle I am allowed, by law, to make the entire rifle myself at home in the garage with out paying taxes, fees, or registering anything.



Pete
Uh...NO:rasta:

just like building your own car
you have to regester the car, get a tag ect;)

pardon my ignorance.

do you need an FFL to sell this stuff to others??

not to sell parts or kits
FFL needed for completed receivers

Uh...NO:rasta:

just like building your own car
you have to regester the car, get a tag ect;)

In some states maybe. I know that in Hawai'i you had to register every firearm in your possession with the county sheriff. Not the case in ME, WA or here in CO.
And there isn't any Federal requirement to register the weapon with BATF.
Remember I am NOT making a weapon to sell. It's for my own use. If I wanted to begin buying kits, make my own receivers and then build and sell complete weapons then I would need to get a manufacturers license.
At this point and time I don't see going that far.
But with a good lathe I could begine making barrels. Also thinking about supressors (and yes need to be a register manufacturer for those).

As for selling stuff, all parts except the receiver are just that, parts. A fully assembled receiver is considered a fire arm. If I start bending up pieces of sheet steel, but don't drill all the holes then its considered an 80% and I could sell that.
So my thought of making AK barrels wouldn't require any BATF type agreements or license or fees. Just have to worry about local sales tax like any other bussiness.

Not the case in ME, WA or here in CO.
And there isn't any Federal requirement to register the weapon with BATF.
.

Do you have a link to the DOJ site where it says that?
I thought I had a good understanding of the laws in this area, interesting, Hmmmm, I would like to see that in print on the gov site;)

Do you have a link to the DOJ site where it says that?
I thought I had a good understanding of the laws in this area, interesting, Hmmmm, I would like to see that in print on the gov site;)

DOJ no, ATF yes.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a7

With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a nonlicensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms.
However, a person is prohibited from making a semiautomatic assault weapon or assembling a nonsporting semiautomatic rifle or nonsporting shotgun from
imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be
approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a federal or state agency. [18 U. S. C. 922( o), (r), (v), and 923, 27 CFR 178.39, 178.40, 178.41 and 179.105]

However, a person is prohibited from making a semiautomatic assault weapon

Which means you still can only legally create the modern "neutered" non-assault weapon, correct?

How does the sunset of the most recent ban affect this law? If this law still stands, you could BUY an assault weapon (grr, I hate that term), but you couldn't BUILD one.

Doesn't make sense, but few modern ATF laws do. :(

Forgot to add that in CA we are unaffected by the sunset of the most recent federal ban, as CA has stricter laws.

Which means you still can only legally create the modern "neutered" non-assault weapon, correct?

How does the sunset of the most recent ban affect this law? If this law still stands, you could BUY an assault weapon (grr, I hate that term), but you couldn't BUILD one.

Doesn't make sense, but few modern ATF laws do. :(

The important thing here is "imported parts".
This law is not related to the now defunct AWB. It instead addresses the ban on importing foriegn made assault weapons. This gets into the whole 10 part limit. A different section of the law(922(R)) goes into the whole definition of an imported weapon and how it must have less then 10 imported parts from a list in the regulation. If the weapon has more of those parts then its considered imported and it's illegle.

"Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.


(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of Sec. 178.151; or
(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions (n/a for AK)
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8 ) Operating rods(n/a for AK)
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings(n/a for AK)
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears(n/a for AK)
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18 ) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates
"

The (n/a for AK) I added,as these parts are not on a foreign built AK. So that means there are 16 parts in an AK that are on this list. Only 10 of them can be imported the rest must be US made. Note that 3 of these parts are the Magazine. So if you use US made mags you only need to replace 3 other parts.

You will always be using a US receiver, either bought through an FFL or home made. Trigger, hammer, and Disconnector are available US made and commonly reffered to as the Fire Control Group FCG.
People using foriegn mags will usually replace the gas piston and pistol grip so they have 6 US parts ten foreign.
Also the trunnion is just the front one, the one that the barrel attaches to. The rear trunnion does not count. nor gas blocks and site housings.

Interesting thing I found out is that if the weapon does not have a butt stock and it's barrel is less then 16" long then its considered a pistol, not an assault rifle and there fore the 10 parts rule doesn't apply.
Put a butt stock on but keep the short baarrel and its considered a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) which you do need to apply to the ATF for permission to build and pay the tax on.

As mentioned everythingI am discussing is Fed law. Each state may also have laws applicable to home made weapons.
In CA I believe you can build a model 1911 pistol, as long as the mag capacity is below the standard no problem at all. Same goes for a single shot or bolt rifle.
Pete

I just took the plunge. Bought a matched Romanian for the chrome. Havn't decided on a receiver yet, but it will be a 100% kind. I'm also going to get rid of the nasty donkey dick front grip. Probably gonna try going back to the old carpetry days and just lobbing it off and make it a little kustom.

Been doing some research, and looked at a few builds. I'm about 75% confident I can do it. I think I will get the other 25% when I can see the parts in person, cause some of the pics are hard to follow when you've never seen an AK before.

http://www.wfo-offroad.com/albums/randomshit/pix416509656.jpg

Another place to get the kit's
http://www.floridagunworks.com/
http://copesdist.com/ak47.htm

AK reciever kit's.
http://www.ar15plus.com/noc/shop/products_category.asp?CategoryID=35

Here is the stock adapter on a different site just cost more.
http://copesdist.com/ak47.htm
http://copesdist.com/images/AKStockAdapter.jpg
http://copesdist.com/images/AKARStockCoversion.gif

Here is another stock they have that just goes on it looks like.
http://copesdist.com/images/AKARStockadapter.jpg

Blake: just make sure to go get your US made parts now :D I have 3 or 4 romy kits sitting in the living room that i will get around to building.


TheRipper: best kits out are from "Bocefus" on www.falfiles.com or www.gunsnet.net and 80% of the time www.centerfiresystems.com

Tapco's stocks can bring the suck, and that stock adapter is better than the tapco ones but not by much :flipoff2: Did you see my thread on how to correctly attach an AR stock to an AK ? :laughing:

Well for the first time since Christina was born I finally got some time to get back into the shop.
I completed the bending jig.
Completed the drill jig.
Started working on the mag dimple jig. Plan is for two 1/2" thick plates. One will have two wells, other will have two bumps. Place a piece of .060 inbetween and then press with the 12ton. I am going to try and get the lip for the front of the mag well lip bend done also.

All three jigs make use of 1/8" locating pins. The reciever flat has one hole 1" from one end and another hole .75" from the other end. Drill these two holes in the blank sheet. Then place in the drill jig, and drill a dozen or so 1/8" holes. These are the locaters for the actual reciever holes. So after the centers are drilled I can go back and hit each one with the actual size needed.
trim flat to size. Cut out the mag and trigger openings. then put in the dimple jig and press.
Final step will be to place in the bending jig.

presto, plain flat sheet metal to 100% receiver in a few simple steps.
Will add some photos later.

Pete

Lets start with this first:

They do make Tritium rear sites for AK's ..hell they make fully adjustable tritium peep sites for AK's


If you make them your own fawking self :flipoff2:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=191928&stc=1
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=191927&stc=1
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=191929&stc=1

These started as russian (or some other country) fully adjustable sites. I then filed a half circle exactly where the old site line was and welded a disk cut from some round stock and drilled a hole in the middle. I then chamfered the hole, deburred and was done :D

The male part of the bending jig with one side plate removed.
The smaller holes on the top of the center piece will line up with the locating holes in the flat. The other four holes are threaded. A piece of flat gets bolted down here, sandwiching the flat.
The angled cut on the right end is for the mag well lip.
The side plates have been recessed for the mag dimples.

Female bending jig

Drill jig. The flats are 12" long. After drilling the two locating holes and placing in the jig, as well as providing layout for all the holes I trim the flat flush with the end of the jig to bring it to its final length of 10.25"

First flat after getting fullsize drilled and doing the cut outs. just the need the mag dimples and cut to size. then it can get bent.

My homemade flat next to a store bought one.

putting an AR/M-16 stock on an AK.. correctly :flipoff2:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what i did with the wonderful piece of steel MAD MAC made for me.(thank you again)

I went and drilled a hole threw the ACE stocks locking ring and countersunk it and drilled/tapped a hole in the "trunnion" for extra strength and also when all the screws are tightened it DOES NOT MOVE
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216757&stc=1&d=1133055448
located the comb i wanted and how much "trunnion" i wanted sticking out. I went and notched it to fit the rear trunnion to fit.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216758&stc=1&d=1133055448
welded her up and ground smooth. I also added some triangulation between the "trunnions" for added oomf. i also drilled it all out to remove any unneeded steel and loose a bunch of wieght(pics not shown,i was lazy)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216759&stc=1&d=1133055448
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216760&stc=1&d=1133055448
There was a gap between the dust cover and the trunnion so i added steel to fil the area. the finished "extension" is solid steel.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216761&stc=1&d=1133055448

I flushed it up and gapped it. Then i just made it blend in real nice.you can also see the starting hole for a new 3rd screw for the rear trunnion. I figured i should make it skull bashing strong :flipoff2:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216762&stc=1&d=1133055881
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216763&stc=1&d=1133055881
AAAAAND the finished product :evil:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216766&stc=1&d=1133056023

There is no gap in between on the finished stock. I ground the little stub flat.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216764&stc=1&d=1133055881
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216765&stc=1&d=1133055881

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216767&stc=1&d=1133056360
:D
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=216768&stc=1&d=1133056360

Doc

:eek:

Holy crap dude that is awsome. thats the exact butstock I am thinking of for my FAK-47.
I was thinking about getting my own tap for the AR gas tube (80$ from Mcmaster-carr). I have a hunk of 1.25x3.x12 and can make up my own rear trunions.
Hadn't thought about welding the stock one to an adaper.
How much was the block adapter piece?
Damn, that is sweet.

Doc

:eek:

Holy crap dude that is awsome. thats the exact butstock I am thinking of for my FAK-47.
I was thinking about getting my own tap for the AR gas tube (80$ from Mcmaster-carr). I have a hunk of 1.25x3.x12 and can make up my own rear trunions.
Hadn't thought about welding the stock one to an adaper.
How much was the block adapter piece?
Damn, that is sweet.

contact Mad Mac on the board, he made it for me. actualy any decent machine shop can single point it for you less than the price of that tap (fuckin odd ass size)
here is the rough drawing of the block
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=203067&stc=1&d=1125194125
The only difference i made was that tapped hole. I actualy drilled and countersunk the ACE locking thing to make it so the stock will not unscrew unless I actualy loosen the locking ring. That and it adds some serious strength ...

you know for "door bashing" and...umm stuff :evil:

you use rustolum rattle can and than bake it?
how tough is it?

you use rustolum rattle can and than bake it?
how tough is it?

quite.

its rustolium textured in black (they also make tan and green) baked at 350* ish for an hour. Nothing realt takes it off. it will scratch if you try but fuck i can touch it up in a sec :laughing:


aloharover: get your stock off ebay. you can get it for $25-$50 less

wait if you build your own reciver, there is no numbers, so there is no way to track the gun right?
so who cares how many forgin parts you use?

wait if you build your own reciver, there is no numbers, so there is no way to track the gun right?
so who cares how many forgin parts you use?

If it ever gets looked at for any reason at all and the person looking knows what he sees, you are talking a federal felony. Never vote again. Never own a gun again. For me, would also mean I loose my job.

it could be as simple as you are on your way home from the range. Drunk driver t-bones your car, you're off to the hospital. Responding officer sees the weapon in the car, takes a closer look. end of story.

OK here is the final drill plate. Measured and marked the location of the mag dimples. Welded some pieces of 1/4" rod onto the top of the plate. Then shaped it some with the dremel.
The 5/16 hole on the upper left is for the selector switch dimple.

The lower half of the drill plate then had dips routed out with the dremel.
So measure out the two locating holes on a piece of 6x12x.060 4130 plate. Dril said holes.
Mount in drilling jig.
Drill a billion holes.
Use a 1/4" punch and place the selector divot.
Lift up the top plate, flip it over and place it back on the guide pins.
Place in press and apply pressure.
Remove from press and trim blank to length.
Remove flat from jig and cut sides.
Now ready to get bent.

Here is the store bought plate next to my home made one. Just need to finish cutting it to size.

Loading the flat into the bending jig.

Pressing completed. Now bending over the rails. White stuff is grease to help with the press.

The final receiver.

The final receiver.



Why bend before welding in the rails?? To me it just seem like it'd be easier to weld up the rails before bending everything. I haven't done much reading on the actual process yet, but I should have some bending tools available to use before the end of the year, with the actual builds starting early next year.


How do you plan on welding the rails? Two options I've considered is using small spot welds every few cm on the underside of each rail, or drilling small holes in the receiver and using plug welds to fill in the holes.

I've got an idea I was thinking of trying but would like to run it by some of you guys first...

Has anybody tried using some of Brownell's silver solder to solder the front trunion in place in addition to riveting or screwing it in? Other than the fact that it would basically be impossible to separate from the receiver again would there be any downfalls that I'm not thinking of?

I've got an idea I was thinking of trying but would like to run it by some of you guys first...

Has anybody tried using some of Brownell's silver solder to solder the front trunion in place in addition to riveting or screwing it in? Other than the fact that it would basically be impossible to separate from the receiver again would there be any downfalls that I'm not thinking of?

It would be redundant :flipoff2: That and that trunnion is going to soak so much heat while you are trying to solder it that it will be a pain in the ass because you will probably warp the receiver while doing it.

but it could be done.

I actualy smear JB weld between mine when i make them.

It would be redundant :flipoff2: That and that trunnion is going to soak so much heat while you are trying to solder it that it will be a pain in the ass because you will probably warp the receiver while doing it.

but it could be done.

I actualy smear JB weld between mine when i make them.


It was just an idea. My main concern with trying it was just as you described, having the thing soak up so much heat that something gets warped. I may do the JB weld though just as an added precaution against having the trunions loosen up on me.

I am sure its been done.
I dont know about the top rail though. The two main bends to make the receiver u-shaped should be easy.
But I dont know how you would do the last two bends with the little 1/4" lip.
Maybe just clamp a piece of 1/2" stock inside the U after doing the main bends and then hammer over the rail.

Pete



My first thought would be to cut the flat a bit larger in that area, bend, then trim down to the correct size.

Of course that's an extra step that's not necessary if using the right tools.

I actualy smear JB weld between mine when i make them.


Mine's gonna be a rivet build :D

My first thought would be to cut the flat a bit larger in that area, bend, then trim down to the correct size.

Of course that's an extra step that's not necessary if using the right tools.

That could work. Even with a purchased, sized, drilled flat you still trim the rail. So not really extra work.

If you have access to a sheet metal brake I say go for it. The 6x12 sheet metal blanks I got were 3$ each. Not like testing the brake method is going to send someone to the poorhouse. :D

Pete

This is RETARDEDLY simple to do and can improve the accuracy of a
barrel quite a bit. This is also if you cut down a barrel to carbine length (this is done on a FAL barrel as an example)

First the shit you will need:
crown cutter (i got mine from www.brownells.com it is the 11* target crown cutter. 11* is a great crown as it performs well and the
countersink protects the crown)
guide dowel to fit the caliber you are doing (once again, brownells. .30
cal guide for AK/SKS/FAL )
handle of some sort for it (i used a 1/4 all thread nut and a old die.
or you can spend the cash on a handle. I don't recommend the drill bit
one as you want to take your time)
0000 steel wool
brass screw or brass ball bearing a little bigger than the cal. you are
doing a 1/4 screw is perfect for .308/7.62
valve lapping compound
cutting oil
hacksaw with a new blade

first i saw my crown was SHOT :eek: and also noticed that the barrel
was corroded at the ends of the lands
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217522&d=1133561906
so i decided to cut it down to a 17.5 barrel because i should not have
to open the gas port (you may/may not need to open the gas port on any
gas operated weapon. the shorter barrel produces less pressure, hence
less to push the action back)
mark it square, i used an old pipe cutter to score it. plug the barrel
with a patch a distance past where you are cutting to keep shavings
out.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217523&d=1133561906
HACK SAW MOTHER FUCKER !!! :flipoff2:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217524&d=1133561906
Now go and insert the crowning tool with guide dowel into the barrel.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217525&d=1133561906
USE LOTS OF OIL AT ALL TIMES AND CLEAR THE CHIPS

Apply good pressure and turn away. I rotate the barrel to a different
position every time i clear chips and re-oil so i don't get a low spot
from my hand pressure. Keep cutting until you have cut the ENTIRE barrel
face (this does not apply to Bull or target barrels as they may be
wider than your cutter. in that case stop when you get the recess you want) Once you do that
keep decreasing your pressure and keep cutting, keep getting lighter and
lighter till only the weight of the tool is on it. This give a nice
fine finish.

remove the tool and clean away any shavings.
Now take the steel wool and use it to get rid of the sharp edge on the
OUTSIDE of the barrel. The pic is over exaggerated i actualy only
used a small piece and rotated it around the edge with my thumb and fore
finger.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217526&d=1133561906

hopefully the board wont crash this time

Is the images in the above post working now?

next you find a way to hold your brass screw. I used a tap holder. If you are using a brass ball just skip to the next.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217527&stc=1&d=1133562149
Dip it in your lapping compound and lap away ! :flipoff2:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217528&stc=1&d=1133562149

just twist it back and forth. I once again changed barrel position and also the angle i was hitting at to make sure i did not get a low spot. Use a medium pressure, its better to take your time and do it right instead of too much.

Check your progress and stop when you get a nice hairline at the grooves (lands are the high spots of the rifling, grooves the bottom) you can just see it in the next pic.

Push out your plug/patch from the breech (dont push the lapping compound INTO the barrel :shaking: ) and CLEAN THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR BARREL !!!!!

and TAADAAAAA! :D
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217529&stc=1&d=1133562149

you now have a barrel with a nice new 11 degree target crown :flipoff2: I used a cold blue to protect it but it an be left bare as long as you oil it and remember its bare metal.

finished and blued :flipoff2: sorry was making some money on some parts :D

The trick to no streaks is to DEGREASE the fuck out of it with brake cleaner, buff lightly with 0000 steel wool and wipe the dust off with a clean dry rag.

hey doc, do you have any more pics of one's that you've painted with that crinkle paint ? I think I'm going to paint some parts of mine that khaki color krinkle ...

hey doc, do you have any more pics of one's that you've painted with that crinkle paint ? I think I'm going to paint some parts of mine that khaki color krinkle ...

actualy ALL of them have been finished in it. Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing it is "Rustolium Textured". Rustolium also makes it in tan and moss green (the green is actualy in the "decorator" box but its the same shit)

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2880/dsc00119kv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3817/dsc00122na.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4596/dsc00135wf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/7735/dsc00140sa.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5856/dsc00152kq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Doc, does it say anything on the can about baking? Is that something you just decided to do, and found it worked?

Do you coat the entire parts, or just the outer pieces? I'm just wondering how tight the fitup would be if everything(save action and barrel), inside and out, is painted? Those screws looked painted as well.

I'm thinking about getting the Romanian one, painting metal parts with the Rustoleum texture, and the furniture with this:
http://www.zolatoneaim.com/inter_1.html
http://www.zolatoneaim.com/images/77-84.jpg

Maybe its just the ghetto in me... :grinpimp:
I like the Butler Creek folding stocks for 10/22's and Mini-14/30. I wonder how hard it would be to adapt the folder portion onto an AK. I haven't seen this type stock made for the AK. :confused:

Oh, and Doc, did you test fire any at the range today? I think I remember reading that you were going to test fire a recent build today... I could be wrong, I've spent 12+hours reading on these since last night... :D

Doc, does it say anything on the can about baking? Is that something you just decided to do, and found it worked?

Do you coat the entire parts, or just the outer pieces? I'm just wondering how tight the fitup would be if everything(save action and barrel), inside and out, is painted? Those screws looked painted as well.

I'm thinking about getting the Romanian one, painting metal parts with the Rustoleum texture, and the furniture with this:
http://www.zolatoneaim.com/inter_1.html
http://www.zolatoneaim.com/images/77-84.jpg

Maybe its just the ghetto in me... :grinpimp:
I like the Butler Creek folding stocks for 10/22's and Mini-14/30. I wonder how hard it would be to adapt the folder portion onto an AK. I haven't seen this type stock made for the AK. :confused:

Oh, and Doc, did you test fire any at the range today? I think I remember reading that you were going to test fire a recent build today... I could be wrong, I've spent 12+hours reading on these since last night... :D

in order :flipoff2
I learned that baking on regular spray painted shit on metal will bond it a LOT better. Then i saw some guys on another board were doing it with the textured. I did test chunks of steel and subjected them to different torture/chemicals and was happy so i used it :D

Entire parts, assembled gun. minus bolt/bolt carrier, trigger shit, springs, gas piston. Light coat inside, outside i control the texture till it looks like what i want. what cant get removed stays together and what comes off is sprayed separately. I let it dry and then bake in the oven at 350-400 for an hour and turn off the oven. Remove when cool (this also anneals the parts good too)

Its the ghetto in you :flipoff2:

show me a pic of the stock and i will find you the AK version or how to adapt it :D

Yes, the range was closed today and i did not know. Tomorrow at 10am unless i have to be at the airport i will be shootin' :evil:

Ok, that makes sense about the coating. It definitely looks better than the factory blueing that comes on most of these things. The crappy looking wood stocks and ugly blueing is a lot of what has turned me off to these rifles before... I actually prefer stainless... but a good paint job will do for a beater. :D

Here's an example of the 10/22 stock:
http://www.gunaccessories.com/ButlerCreek/Folding.asp

A mini-14 stock on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BUTLER-CREEK-STAINLESS-FOLDING-STOCK-FOR-RUGER-MINI-14_W0QQitemZ7200757998QQcategoryZ36258QQssPageName ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Also another for the 870 shotgun here:
http://www.combatstocks.com/Butler_Creek_Steel_Folding_Stock_for_the_Remington _870.cfm

I'll get a chance to look at some both on and off the rifle tomorrow, I'll see if it has to be cut off or can be otherwise detached. They feel very solid, and collapse tighter than the AR stock you used. Yours is practical for a better cheek weld, but the folder would take less room in the truck... and is cheaper. :D

I read your description on how to heat treat the receiver earlier. It makes sense. I read another one on one of the sites mentioned here, and it claimed to heat the treated areas to red hot and quench, twice. Then, heat to red again and allow to cool. IIRC from welding school this actually softened the metal. Heating to 500 like you wrote would treat it to a good hardness. Baking to 400 would be on the verge of hardening it to the max. Somewhere in the 400-420 range is where the transition begins. If its bare shiny metal, you can see it form a straw color. Blue/Purple form in the 500-600 degree range... At least, thats how I remember it. :D I definitely neeed to brush up on this. :laughing:

http://www.aceltdusa.com/images04/ms/MS1%20(AKFX_AK)_med.jpg

hows that one ?

thats from www.aceltdusa.com (same maker as my AR stock) they sell folding kits for it and a specialty adapter that you cut the back of the tang off and just bolt the stock on

http://www.aceltdusa.com/images04/AK/AKRBCwbg_292w.jpg

This is a good idea for a cheek rest. :D

http://www.aceltdusa.com/images04/gallery/ARFXParaWrap1-602w.jpg

AMD-65:
http://www.aceltdusa.com/images04/Customer/mvc-373f2_615w.jpg

I have read all of Doc's posts and I feel this would be a great addition to them http://gunsgutsandgod.com/SBS%20tutorial.htm

it answered a bunch of questions I had after reading through this thread

that's a good link, thanks jstarnes ...

hey doc, when I asked a couple of days ago for more painted pics I meant to specify ones that were any other color than the black ones you already posted. Where did you get the pieces in this pic you posted. I've searched a fair bit and can't find ones like that ... at least in the pics of the parts that places say they sell:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171858&stc=1

EDIT: Just found the pistol grip piece. I saw one you guys reference a SAW and that's what the grip piece is from a SAW.

www.tapco.com makes them hey are styled after the M249 SAW

yes you WILL NEED A MAG !!!! thats how you determine the front trunnion location. too far out and the mag will wobble/fall out. too close and it wont fit.
the best magazines are the FORIENG MADE plastic mags (Bulgarian waffle, Finnish waffle, Finnish valmet, etc) the U.S. made plastic ones (US Mag) suck balls
Those ones will fit most anything PERFECT !!

now any of the steel ones will work but they may require fitting. Fitting means sanding off some of the "duckbill" that sticks out of the mag. always adjust the magazine NEVER the magazine catch on the rifle.

hey doc, will a steel mag work good enough to locate the front trunnion or do I need a good foreign plastic one for that ?

hey doc, will a steel mag work good enough to locate the front trunnion or do I need a good foreign plastic one for that ?

works good enuf. just get it "snug". use a small "C" clamp to hold the front trunnion in place to test the mag fitment.

and when you do find mags that wont lock in grind a little from the "duckbil" on the mag NOT THE MAG LATCH ON THE RECIEVER !!! make the mags fit your AK not the other way :flipoff2:

Doc,

When you bake stuff, do you use the oven in your kitchen, the same you cook with? I suspect you don't have any issue with fumes or any residual smells. I am going to be baking a finish onto some smaller parts and I have toyed with the idea of buying a small toaster over to use instead of the one in the kitchen. However if it's working find for your, the money could be better spent on more gun parts:D:D!

Doc,

When you bake stuff, do you use the oven in your kitchen, the same you cook with? I suspect you don't have any issue with fumes or any residual smells. I am going to be baking a finish onto some smaller parts and I have toyed with the idea of buying a small toaster over to use instead of the one in the kitchen. However if it's working find for your, the money could be better spent on more gun parts:D:D!

Yes i use the regular oven :flipoff2: as I can suspend the parts from the inside and nothing fawks up the finish. :D That and the heat is nice and even inside.

no issues with fumes when its done/finished, but it will put off a odor when baking. so no, my brownies dont taiste like Rustolium :laughing:

If you could find an old stove with shot top burners it will probly cost you less than the toaster oven (free on the side of the road) and you could also do home powdercoating in the garage to boot

I think they may not have updated the site since the ban expired?

Maybe our resident gun law armchair experts :p will know whether guns built between 94 and 04 are still illegal to modify, and the ones built '05 and newer are exempt?

Edit, Doc you beat me to it. So does the ban still apply to guns built in those years or are they now exempt?

Maybe our resident gun law armchair experts :p will know whether guns built between 94 and 04 are still illegal to modify, and the ones built '05 and newer are exempt?

Edit, Doc you beat me to it. So does the ban still apply to guns built in those years or are they now exempt?

nope, you can put evil black shit on your guns :D thread your barrels, throw away your thumbhole stocks, rape, pillage, plunder...

nope, you can put evil black shit on your guns :D thread your barrels, throw away your thumbhole stocks, rape, pillage, plunder...

Excellent ! :grinpimp: http://www.4x4spot.com/morpheus/images/sniper.gif

I see a few of these laser cut receivers for sale for fairly cheap $30 ... they don't have the magazine "bumps" in them though ... what's the word on them ?
http://www.4x4spot.com/morpheus/images/ak_laser.jpg

Doc do you know if the underfolder "folder" will fit over that forgrip?
that I do not know :(


I see a few of these laser cut receivers for sale for fairly cheap $30 ... they don't have the magazine "bumps" in them though ... what's the word on them ?
http://www.4x4spot.com/morpheus/images/ak_laser.jpg

They work :D
its thin sheet so take your time welding, they require heat treating when done.

If you want the "bumps" for magazine stability just measure how high it needs to be from the reciever stub in your parts kit and plug weld a plate to the inside that matches that thickness :D

Doc, I've been reading this thread over and over and have figured out what to spend my Xmas money on.:evil:

I'm planning on picking up a Romanian parts kit from Gunbroker. I thought about going to the next gun show, but I can't wait. Got a few questions for ya though, if ya don't mind. I apologise if any of these have already been answered, I have ADD:laughing:

Is this the skull bashing collapsable stock I would need?
collapsible stock (http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FG&Product_Code=1403&Category_Code=AKA+AK+STOCKS)
Also does the mounting for it count as the rear trunnion......I.E. would this be two US parts?
But I'm also thinking....do I really need a collapsible stock like this? I like the fact that I could save a little room, but do these really collapse that far? It would save me a little money to just get a 4 piece set.
I thought about a folding stock but I'm not sure wether I like them or not.

I noticed in the rifles built on the first page you replaced the stock and hand grip (2parts), fire control (3 parts), and gas tube (1 parts) to make the 6 US parts you needed. But the reciever would count as a US made part wouldn't it? I'm going to get an unbent reciever to save a little money.

On the trigger group, do i need the single hook or double hook? I've noticed most of the time they are the same price. And is "G2" better than anyone else's US trigger groups?

So so far this is what I've got...

part........................cost...............US parts

romanian AK47.........$99.97
gunbroker.com

collapsible stock......$84.95..............2
fl gun works

pistol grip................~$20...............1


g2 trigger group.......$39.................3
tickbitesupply
--or akparts.com.......$37.95 *not listed as G2

Unbent reciever......$24.95..............1
akparts.com

Total...................~$270...............6

I plan on getting a front hand gaurd to match the stock/pistol grip when I get closer to completion, and a birdcage flash hider. And I didn't factor in the screws or other small supplies into the cost. Is there anything you can think of that I'm missing?

TIA for the help!:smokin:


Edit: I just saw the link to DPHarms above.....

They have a Ewbanks receiver that is already predrilled and folded for $50.....are these any good or should I stay with the unbent recievers?

Where did you get your parts kit ? I got mine from dpharms.com ... don't know enough to know if mine is Romanian like it said or not :confused:

What kind of receiver are you going to use ?


Romanians have chrome lined barrels, they are easy to tell because they have the hand grip on the front grip. I got mine on gunbroker for $105.

Havn't looked at what receiver I'm going to go with. Still researching.

Doc, I've been reading this thread over and over and have figured out what to spend my Xmas money on.:evil:

I'm planning on picking up a Romanian parts kit from Gunbroker. I thought about going to the next gun show, but I can't wait. Got a few questions for ya though, if ya don't mind. I apologise if any of these have already been answered, I have ADD:laughing:
or from the for sale section of both gunsnet.net and falfiles.com screen name "bocefus" I believe he sells the ones with the red saten background on gunbroker as its the same images he uses
Is this the skull bashing collapsable stock I would need?
collapsible stock (http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FG&Product_Code=1403&Category_Code=AKA+AK+STOCKS)
nope, plastic adapter. you might as well get a T-6 stock from www.tapco.com as its one piece (plastic) or just get the plastic adapter itself and get a AR stock for WAY less from ebay. ACE stocks sells the diffrent metal adapters but get pricy. but worth it
Also does the mounting for it count as the rear trunnion......I.E. would this be two US parts?
no, only the stock. the rear trunnion is still used with that adapter
But I'm also thinking....do I really need a collapsible stock like this? I like the fact that I could save a little room, but do these really collapse that far? It would save me a little money to just get a 4 piece set.
they colasps a bit

I thought about a folding stock but I'm not sure wether I like them or not.

I noticed in the rifles built on the first page you replaced the stock and hand grip (2parts), fire control (3 parts), and gas tube (1 parts) to make the 6 US parts you needed. But the reciever would count as a US made part wouldn't it? I'm going to get an unbent reciever to save a little money.
yup US reciever counts as a part :D
On the trigger group, do i need the single hook or double hook? I've noticed most of the time they are the same price. And is "G2" better than anyone else's US trigger groups?
G2 work great. all my shit is single hook and i see nothing wrong

So so far this is what I've got...

part........................cost...............US parts

romanian AK47.........$99.97
gunbroker.com

collapsible stock......$84.95..............2
fl gun works

pistol grip................~$20...............1


g2 trigger group.......$39.................3
tickbitesupply
--or akparts.com.......$37.95 *not listed as G2

Unbent reciever......$24.95..............1
akparts.com

Total...................~$270...............6

I plan on getting a front hand gaurd to match the stock/pistol grip when I get closer to completion, and a birdcage flash hider. And I didn't factor in the screws or other small supplies into the cost. Is there anything you can think of that I'm missing?

TIA for the help!:smokin:


Edit: I just saw the link to DPHarms above.....

They have a Ewbanks receiver that is already predrilled and folded for $50.....are these any good or should I stay with the unbent recievers?

Ewbanks recievers require some rimming on the little tabs inside the mag well. I have done 4 on those and they work REALY well.

also look at http://www.tapco.com/product_information.asp?number=ZAK06160B&back=yes&dept=214&last=214
http://www.tapco.com/item_pics/lg/ZAK06160B_lg.jpg
$200 includes romanian kit, colapsable stock, fore end, grip, and fire control group.

hey Doc, I just got an M-4 stock and am going to make a piece out of 1" stock like Mac made you. My stock has this piece that I assume is an indexing ring (the threaded portion has a slot in it that a tab in the ring rides in) ... it doesn't look like your stock was like that. Is that where you drilled that hole for the small allen screw in one pic ?

a pic like the stock I got:
http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/86578_ts.JPG?cell=200,200&cvt=jpeg

hey Doc, I just got an M-4 stock and am going to make a piece out of 1" stock like Mac made you. My stock has this piece that I assume is an indexing ring (the threaded portion has a slot in it that a tab in the ring rides in) ... it doesn't look like your stock was like that. Is that where you drilled that hole for the small allen screw in one pic ?

a pic like the stock I got:
http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/86578_ts.JPG?cell=200,200&cvt=jpeg

my stock has a locking ring also. its just larger. and yup that "tab" area is where i drilled it to lock.
you can buy it here
http://www.aceltdusa.com/images04/AR15/M4LG_ambi_292w.jpg
http://www.aceltdusa.com/ar15.htm

aloharover, did you ever complete a build on one of your home bent receivers ?

Funny you should ask
A 2mo an a 16mo don't leave me much time.

Complete build...no.

I did finally get some free time today and got the jig dialed in.
1st one I used 3/16" for the side plates by mistake. So the receiver was 1/8th too narrow.

So I got some 1/4" and remade the sides.
#2 bend was too wide...:confused: somehow .25+.25+.75=1.3"
So I had to spend some time with some wet/dry and oil and worked on the side plates.

Finally got the width correct and I measured it before bending a flat.

#3 came out perfect.
I got the trigger guard attached.
Ft trunnion located, mags lock up tight no wobble.
Located the holes, drilled the receiver, front trunnion is screwed in.
Rr trunion located and screwed into place.

Now I need to finish up the barrel & gas block mods I am working on and get all of that put back together.
Then head to the range and test fire.
If everything works ok, disassemble, sandblast, park, and GunCote.

Pete

the wood on the stocks are laminate right? if i stain them, and re attach them, can i say they i built them myself? or is there some kind of number on the compliance parts?
is there a depth to drill the rivits in the chamber? has any one measured the holes?
thanks
dale

no they are still the same stocks, nice try :flipoff2: but if you cut off the pistol grip on a Romanian lower then yes you could :D

HOW TO MEASURE THE DEPTH TO DRILL THE FRONT RIVITS !!!!

1) you need a pair of calipers or a depth micrometer to be "accurate" you can eye fuck it and still be fine.

look at the front of the front trunnion right where the barrel sticks out.
see the trunnion? see the barrel?
That is the the max depth you can drill before hitting the barrel because neither the barrel or trunnion taper :flipoff2: easy as fuck huh?
Just take a drill, put the point of the drill on the barrel, slide a stopcollar till it hits the trunnion and thats it.

ya need a picture ? :p

oh and as for "accedentaly" drilling into the barrel

big fucking deal :laughing: look how deep the cross pin slot is drilled into the barrel and that is factory :D

Was able to get some more time in the garage this morning. Here is some more of my progress.

The die parts

Lining up the retaining plate and flat with a couple 1/8 punches

everything bolted down tight

Starting the bend

Little heat and 8oz ball pean to de-stress the corners

Bending the top rails

A pair of bent flats (flats I made my self :D )

The FAK-47 is starting to really come together:smokin:

nice work man! You making your own rails too?

you going to heat treat them?

nice work man! You making your own rails too?

you going to heat treat them?

Thanks

Yes, probably from some 1x1x1/8 angle

Yes

The FAK-47 is starting to really come together:smokin:

Aloha, were did you get that flash hider??

Aloha, were did you get that flash hider??



looks like from a FAL. Try tapco. Looks like the $.99 break :D


I'm going to use a shortened STG58 break on my AK.

Aloha, were did you get that flash hider??
yep, brit FAL...slides on, held on by a little wheel pinned to the bbl...LOL

hope he threaded it or pinned it on...I have watched them fly downrange with the bullet...:shaking:

looks like from a FAL. Try tapco. Looks like the $.99 break :D


Yes, Tapco.
FAL parts.
Brake, gas block, gas regulator, and gas block plug. Most of this stuff is a buck or two from Tapco so I ordered a bunch of parts.
Thats why I call it the FAK-47 :D
Barrel is cut down. FAL gas block actually is a press fit over the brake and then the brake is a press fit onto the barrel. It will get drilled and pinned.
Inside of the gas block gets reemed for the piston, stock is threaded for the FAL gas tube. Regulator is going to be functional. Barrel is 16.5". With the folding stock its going to make a great little truck carbine.

My next build is going to use a FAL barrel, piston, and gas tube. 7.62 nato AK :D

Pete

Well I started my build.... I'm still unpaking from the move so I dont have my work bench up:( and two things I can say right away..................

I hate rivets and holy fawlk that metal is hard!!!!

:laughing:

All I can say is if you don't have a variable speed dremel yet get one.
I use a fiber disc to cut off the heads of the rivets, then pry the receiver off the trunion. Makes it easy to determin the exact size of the rivit and its center prior to drilling.

Use the fiber wheels and smaller cutting wheels to do all the openings and trim the rails.

Carbide cutter for general shaping, finish with sanding drums, or files.

They make an attachment for the Dremel so you can use a drill bit thingy for cutting sheetrock and stuff, kinda like a Rotozip.
That attachment actually makes a perfect depth gauge when used with the cut off wheel for triming the rails. Makes a perfect straight cut.

Polishing wheels and bonnets to clean up feed ramps and stuff (ok mostly for the 1911s)

Well I started my build.... I'm still unpaking from the move so I dont have my work bench up:( and two things I can say right away..................

I hate rivets and holy fawlk that metal is hard!!!!

similar style as aloharover:

cut off rivet heads with 4.5" grinder not giving a fuck if I chew up the receiver leftovers a little

pry off receiver stubs

sand rivet stumps smooth to the trunnion with the dremel sanding disks

center punch the rivets

drill a guide hole in the rivet using a small bit

drill out rivet to a few sizes smaller than what i will be tapping/riveting it to

remove rivet bits or grind them out the rest of the way with THE GOD OF ALL DREMEL BITS !!!
the tungsten carbide cutter !!
(large image so you may worship it)
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004UDJJ.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

The rear trunnion rivets I keep drilling larger till they "get stuck" on the drill bit and then pull them out using the bit.

HAHA I burned up one a couple of years ago so I bought another one for this build:)

I've seen the sheet rock thingy. But I bought an already made reciever for my 1st build. My 2nd parts kit I got is way worse than my 1st, so I'll make the reciever for that and have it be a beater rifle:D


The idea is from Sangrun's thread over at gunco
http://www.gunco.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18008
BTW the link is a pretty nice write up with lots of photos.

OK, here is the current state of the FAK-47.
Passes the functions check.
16.5" bbl but thing still almost feels like a pistol. I really like the balance.
Going to make the perfect truck carbine. Thinking about saving up for an Eotech site.

Only a few items left on the to-do:

1- drill and pin the front gas block
2- make and install the cross support
3- drill holes for rear trunion.
4- heat FCG holes and rails.
5- order an ace skeleton side folder (will use old wood until it arrives)
6- finish the gas tube heat shield/rail mount (that can wait)

I might just be able to test fire it this week end. :D

Then can disassemble, blast, and paint.

ps. I only photochopped the background so as to not further offend Doc. :flipoff2:

you are gonna need a taller rear sight.

hinge the cover like a Galil and install a HK G3 style rear sight on the back cover :evil:

I don't know, just doing an eyeball down the bore it looks pretty good.
I really need to get one of those chamber lasers and then a bunch of different calibers, 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, 45-70.
Yes I am looking at my 45-70 rolling block and thinking :smokin:

Seriously though, how hard is it to hinge? Need to do some reasearch.
My rail is going to eliminate the rear site, not going to be a see through. Going to canterlever it over the cover.

Pete

Just saw this over at ak builder

http://ak-builder.com/ak/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=51

I don't think you need to get all silly with the alignment jigs. Just use a fine sharpie and draw the lines where the bends are supposed to be.

Much simpler design then the male/female jig and most important you could actually use this for other purposes.
Also will make better corners IMO.
Looks like I have something else to try and build now :D

Don't think I have added this photo to the thread yet :D

Best photo I have been able to find of a hinged cover for those that don't know what Doc was telling me to do.

Best photo I have been able to find of a hinged cover for those that don't know what Doc was telling me to do.

yup, just drill a hole across the front trunnion and mount :grinpimp: run a "back strap" that is spot welded to the dust cover with a site on the back.


oh and that other "jig" is just a 90* brake. you can buy those all day long to attach to your hydraulic press. I was thinking of buying one as they are cheap.
Hell, they are simple to make.

oh and that other "jig" is just a 90* brake. you can buy those all day long to attach to your hydraulic press. I was thinking of buying one as they are cheap.
Hell, they are simple to make.

Yeah, that was my point. Not paying someone 225$ for one

anybody make a .223 ak out of 7.62x39 one? I ran across a page where a guy detailed doing it but man did he go through alot of work to do it. if that's the only way I'll just keep saving and buy an AR-15

anybody make a .223 ak out of 7.62x39 one? I ran across a page where a guy detailed doing it but man did he go through alot of work to do it. if that's the only way I'll just keep saving and buy an AR-15

Got a link?

I think I read that an AK-74 in 5.45 or 5.56 varient the bolt will work for the .223 round. Either right away or with slight modification.

I havent looked to closely yet but I am thinking about using an AR barrel when I get around to mine. Need to do some measurements and see how well the gasblock and front sight block openings match with the AK bits.

If you get a non-army profiled (no step for the 203) heavy barrel you could always get it turned to match an AK profile if that matters to you.

Or else just make your own gas block, modify an AK block, or sleave the barrel and use a stock AK block.

Depending on the length of piston and tube you use, might need to plug the AR gas hole.

OK here are some measurements.
From my Romanian AKs
bbl at frt sight: .570"
bbl at gas block: .595"
bbl at trunion: .905" aka 23mm trunnion

M16-A2 style barrel, full length from Bushmaster

end of bbl : .722"
ft sight: .750
just behind sight: .850"
under handguard: .950"
at receiver: .980"

At a minimum you would want to lathe the bbl to part off the bolt engagement area and then turn the chamber end down to .906" so you have a press fit into the AK trunion.

if you want an Ak profile the A1 bbl might be a better fit. Not sure what those dims are, just know its a smaller dia bbl.

Some more thoughts;

For my 308 build I will turn to 23mm at the trunion and then make my own gas block. Start with a 1"x2"x.75" piece of stock. It will get cut in half, into .5x2x.75 but before splitting need to drill and tap for some 10x32 hex head cap screws. So after spliting bolt back together and then drill the two holes for the bbl and gas tube. After installing on bbl drill a 45 degree hole from the gas tube down into the bbl.

I have a lathe and found a place online that I can buy some .75"x12" stainless steel round stock for 7$ so can make my own piston, any length I need. Just need to see if I can find some tubing thats got the correct size to use for the gas tube. Will cut the AK tube at the rear site block and mig it to the new tube.

I think for my .223 build I would do the same sort of thing with a Win/Rem bolt bbl. Ebay usually has new .223 HB varmit bbls for 100$.

They make AR gas blocks that are not the front sight, just a square hunk that have rails built in. Could use that, tap the AR gas hole in it and put in a setscrew to seal it.

AR front sight is 2.??" above the centerline of the bore. So it might be possible to use either the stock style AR frt sight or some of the aftermarket target ones combined with a rail mounted rear sight located either on the dust cover or modify the AK rear sightblock.

Pete

Little O/T but whats the best way to mount a scope on an AK? Aligned and pinned removable side weaver style mount, single or tri-rail weaver style receiver cover (to include the ones you can still use your iron sights with, but possibly limited?), or trunnion mount?

Little O/T but whats the best way to mount a scope on an AK? Aligned and pinned removable side weaver style mount, single or tri-rail weaver style receiver cover (to include the ones you can still use your iron sights with, but possibly limited?), or trunnion mount?
in order (to me)
side mount rail to piccatinny.
replacement rear sight with piccatinny rail
"saddle" style mount


and then all the other shit that rattles loose
:flipoff2:

Little O/T but whats the best way to mount a scope on an AK? Aligned and pinned removable side weaver style mount, single or tri-rail weaver style receiver cover (to include the ones you can still use your iron sights with, but possibly limited?), or trunnion mount?






I've got a 4x24 POSP scope from centerifresystems.com mounted to a side rail that has been welded onto the receiver. The rail came from K-var. It sits high and to the left, allowing clear usage of the iron sights.

Got a link?

I think I read that an AK-74 in 5.45 or 5.56 varient the bolt will work for the .223 round. Either right away or with slight modification.


I think it's the AK-101 that is 5.56. I read that the 5.56 variant would shoot .223 rounds but not the other way around. I've never seen a 5.56 parts kit though ... I guess because they're new enough to still be in use.

Here's that link (lots of interesting info on that site):

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/AK101/ak-101.htm

I think it's the AK-101 that is 5.56. I read that the 5.56 variant would shoot .223 rounds but not the other way around. I've never seen a 5.56 parts kit though ... I guess because they're new enough to still be in use.

Here's that link (lots of interesting info on that site):

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/AK101/ak-101.htm

I have been doing some more reading also.

5.56x45 is .223 Rem. There might be a difference in the angle of the shoulder between the two. But I don't want to get into that argument, I have fired handload 223 through an M16A2 and have also fired Military Ball 5.56mm ammo through a civilian .223
IMO the difference is that the military allows more headspace "field gauge" then you find on the civilian side.

I have read where someone is use the Russian 5.45x39 bolt for a 9mm build. And I also read about using the bolt for a 223 build.
Another story was someone built a sleeve/cup that got silver soldered into the head of a 7.62x39 bolt so it would work with a .223.

I am concentrating on my own 7.62x51 conversion, gethering bits and pievces, reading, etc so haven't really looked to hard at the .223 option.
KVar sells the 5.45 bolt and carrier. The bolt would work in a 7.62 carrier if you sleeve the tail of the bolt for the larger opening.
The 5.45 bolt will suposedly work with the 7.62 trunnion, but I don't have a bolt yet to actually compare.

Pete

ya know, I swear I put images like this in here :laughing:

Must have more. :D:grinpimp:
fine :flipoff2:

Well isn't that just artsy fartsy, you turning into an artsy fartsy pansy there doc? :flipoff2:

got anymore?
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4510/homedefence2px.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7492/sight9wi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2276/aim47ri.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

just how solid are those side receiver mounts?
Any movement at all?


Found a couple places that sell the piece that goes on the receiver.
Also found an SVD kit. F-ing 700$:mad3:

just how solid are those side receiver mounts?
Any movement at all?


Found a couple places that sell the piece that goes on the receiver.
Also found an SVD kit. F-ing 700$:mad3:

not when you run stitch welds down the edge of the fuckers :laughing:
the rails ceice to move :D

some..SOMEpeople have had luck with riveting them on. I however have not.


http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=40 always has them in stock and carries different styles. I use the "universal" ones.

I think so :laughing:

I sent you the barrel for your new project :grinpimp:

Awsome. Got the email from UPS, box with 6 more kits is showing up on Tuesday. I ordered some more FAL parts from TAPCO. Gas piston for a buck. Gas blocks, and other bits. Online place will sell 1' sections of stainless rod, so I can also make up my own piston. Fawk I am never going to have the $$ to get my ARBs :laughing:
I am not going to use a bent flat receiver. Working on a different idea for this build.

Had a chance to play around with the 80% yet? Will they work?

I havent started making a press brake yet. I don't have any more 1/2" stock on hand and have been too busy to get over to my supplier. I love that place, no problem selling by the foot.

I am loaning out the 2-part jig so wont be bending anymore flats until I get the PB done. I haven't figured out how to get a perfect 90* on the press and die. I don't have a band saw. Thinking about trying a metal blade on a skill saw. Take a piece of 2x1/2 and make a single pass with the blade at 45*. Flip around and weld both pieces to another plate, then I have the 90* trough for the bottom. But I wonder if 1/2" might not be too deep for a sheet metal press and maybe just go 1/4.
If the bottom plate comes out straight then will just two passes with the skill saw for the ram part.
Going to use 9/16 grade-8 bolts for the two guide pins. That way if you don't have a hydraulic press it could still be used by turning the nuts. Half turn on each, going back and forth should work great.

Well, I'm happy to report that we survived, for the most part, our AK build party weekend. The weather could not have been any WORSE for a garage build party (See Tx weather thread). But all things considered, we got a decent amount of rifles out the door, with few hiccups along the way. I did not have a camera, and quite honestly, we were too busy cranking away to take time for any pictures. We did get a few pics of most of the rifles suspended while the duracoat was drying, so I may or may not get a pic of it.

I debated weather or not to start a new thread, but since this has kinda turned into the AK builders thread, here's my experiences over the past few weekends... yes it's a long post.

Last year me and a regular shooting buddy began tossing up the idea of building a few AKs in his garage. We had most of the tooling already available, and thought it would be a fun project. Then a few more people joined in on the project, all with multiple kits to build, so what turned into a "few" rifles actually became quite an intimidating task. Making things worse was EVERYTHING had to be completed in ONE weekend. Three of the six guys in the group were from out of town, with the closest being 5 hours away. There would be no second chances, no do-overs, no "we can put that off for another weekend". An unrealistic amount of parts HAD to be turned into 100% complete and functinal firearms in 2.5 days.

We had originally planned on bending the flats, welding, blasting and finishing all in one weekend. But we were quickly hit with the reality that such a task would be impossible, given all the variables and small problems that crept up along the way. Underfolders took several hours per rifle, where as others could be completed in less than an hour. Other smaller problems that we overlooked began to surface, which all had to be overcome.

Myself and one other member, whose house we would be building at, took on the project and began prepping his garage weeks in advance. Some things had to be bought or built, things such as boilers for parts tanks and parkerizing tanks. We first began by building a parkerizing "cooker", consisting of a donated kitchen oven which we converted the 4-top burners into an inline series of 3 burners. This was necessary in order to maintain a consistant and constant temperature in the parkerizing solution. We then had to make a rack to keep the park tank stable while on the burners. Next we needed parts boilers. A scrap stainless steel commercial sink was found, and turkey friers hooked up to propane worked to heat solution for cleansing. A simple rubbermade tub was used for the alcohol dipping.

The week before the build, myself and another member began to build the flats, which had been bent the previous week. These were TAPCO flats, the $15 ones from their website. We had to drill holes for plug welds on both sides of each receiver, fit up rails, weld, and then heat treat all FCG holes, as well as ejector nubs. The receivers were fitted with the parts and then clamped together. Once alignment of the rails was determined, everything was plug welded in place and allowed to cool. Once cooled, all necessary sections were heat treated by a method of Oxy/Acet torching the areas until glowing orange, then quenching in motor oil. Our method was to heat the trigger holes first, and then quench. Then do the hammer pin holes, and quench. Then ejector nub and quench. This process was repeated two times for the holes, and a third time for the ejector. Once quenched, the receivers were soaked in parts cleaner, then dried and set aside.

Build day started at 7:00am Friday, and wrapped up around 10:00pm that night, with a majority of the kits fully assembled. Each receiver had to be individually fit to the parts going in. Once propper fitment was determined, everything was tightly clamped together, and the actions were tested. Once the actions were smooth, it was time to drill and weld. Trunion holes were then drilled in a drill press, and everything was welded together. All welds were then ground smooth.


Saturday morning kicked off at 7:00 am again, and lasted until 7:00 am Sunday. We all knew it would be a long night, but had no idea it would have been as long as it was. With all kits assembled and welded, now came time to strip everything down and degrease. They needed to be degreased first to avoid contaminating the blast media, which was on a very limited supply. To aid in the blasting, every part was wire-wheeled shiny before dunking in parts cleaner. Water was heated to a sustained boil for the cleaning. The weather was definitely not on our side, as it was 30* ouside, raining/sleeting off and on, and all cleaning had to be done outside due to space. The propane tanks froze to the ground. We aimed a propane jet heater over where we were working, but I think keeping our hands in hot water actually helped more than the heater.

After cleaning/degreasing, all parts needed to be media blasted. We used aluminum phospate as the media, which brought all parts to a rough, dull gray appearance. Once blasted, all parts were handled with latex gloves to avoid rust and contamination of the park tank. Blasting took the most time out of the entire build process. Ten minutes was average for the barreled receivers, with as much as 5 minutes per additional part for each receiver. The 300 gallon air compressor got a serious workout, but held up suprisingly well for being a Harbor Freight special.

Parkerizing turned out to be an intimidating operation, but actually went better than expected. The tank came from usmcdoc, and was exatly what we needed for this build. We had enough solution to fill the tank only once, and it's not exacly something you can run out to 24hr wal-mart if you need more. This meant that once the parkerizing process began, there could be no turning back. All kits and parts had to be parkerized in one sitting. This also meant that the tank and solution needed to be meticulously maintained. Any breakdown in the solution would mean people were going home with unfinished rifles. Before dipping in park solution, each rifle was cleaned of all blast media, then dipped in denatured alcohol for around 5 min. After alcohol, each rifle was dipped in boiling water. This was mainly to clean the rifles one last time, as well as to bring the temperature of the rifles up to equal the temperature of the parkerizing solution in order to maintain a constant temp in the park tank. We were not sure if we would be able to maintain the required temp in the tank if we just began dropping cold rifles in. And being that it got down into the 20* range outside that night, rifles got very cold, very quickly.

We used a Zink Phosphate parkerizing solution, which once dried, brought the rifles to a charcoal gray color. They were dried by hanging in front of a jet propane heater, and all flocking was removed. Parked rifles were then suspended on wires from overhead tubing in a makeshift painting booth surrounded by tarps. Duracoat was then sprayed onto each rifle, part, and any other piece that needed to be duracoated. Gas pistons were taped off at the piston to aviod overspray. The rifle bores were not plugged during the park process, as the solution does not react with chome, and simply brushing away the residue is all it takes to clean them.

The final coats of duracoat were applied around 6:00 am. With fans and heaters around the general area, all parts were dry to touch by 11:00 am, however they are nowhere near cured yet. The guys from out of town had to carefully wrap their rifles for transport. Mine is still hanging to dry, and will be doing so for probably the next week to allow it to cure.

There was definitely a lot learned this weekend, one mainly being that if you're going to do a build of AKs, stick to a more realistic number of kits. Another was planning. We thought, rethought, and overthought each and every process of the build. Keeping multiple extras of everything needed definitely made things go smoother. We went through 6 tanks of propane, burned up at least one hand grinder, destroyed multiple wire wheels and sanding discs, had to make a few custom tools on the fly, and managed to throw a few breakers here and there too :D All this was during the times when no stores were open to go get replacements.

The kits that proved to be the most problematic were the underfolders, due to the extra holes that needed to be drilled. And without a propper template, this proved to be quite a challenging task. We ended up cutting a side of the de-milled receiver, and used that as a crude template for the underfolder holes. Several hours were dedicated to each underfolder kit, whereas traditional kits were completed in under an hour.

I only did one build, which came out quite nice. There was some runs in the duracoat, which are being fixed, but overall fit and finish was greater than expected. I wish I had pics to show, as I'm sure it would definitely help anyone else interested in doing a build, but unfortunately, due to the nature of the build, we literally had no time to stop for pics. Once my rifle has cured, I'll try to get a few pics of it and post them here.

In the next month or two, I will be building another AK, and since it will be a much smaller, less complex operation, I will try to get some pics for that build, as it will include every step from actually building the receiver to applying the finish...

My buddies and I have built a total of 6 rifles so far using the welding method. It works very well if you aren't worried about appearances.




All of ours were weld-builds. Using a 120-grit sanding disc on a hand grinder, we smoothed down the welds flush with the surface of the receiver, which made it so you could barely tell where the welds were. Sandblasting removed almost all traces of weld, and park/duracoat covered most of the rest. Some kits have small circles in the finsh outlining the plug welds, but for the most part they came out very smooth.

All of ours were weld-builds. Using a 120-grit sanding disc on a hand grinder, we smoothed down the welds flush with the surface of the receiver, which made it so you could barely tell where the welds were. Sandblasting removed almost all traces of weld, and park/duracoat covered most of the rest. Some kits have small circles in the finsh outlining the plug welds, but for the most part they came out very smooth.


We have been using a Tig to do ours so there really isn't anything to sand off. They just kind of look like spot welds so we haven't been worrying about them. In addition to the 3 rivet spots in the front trunions we have also been welding the seam where the top of the receiver meets the trunion. I don't think it is really necessary, but we have just been doing it anyway just in case. It's not going to hurt anything...

At the next build party we have I will hopefully take pictures to document the whole process that we have been going through. I will also hopefully take some pictures of the FAL assembly that I will be helping a friend with in the near future as well.

We have been using a Tig to do ours so there really isn't anything to sand off. They just kind of look like spot welds so we haven't been worrying about them. In addition to the 3 rivet spots in the front trunions we have also been welding the seam where the top of the receiver meets the trunion. I don't think it is really necessary, but we have just been doing it anyway just in case. It's not going to hurt anything...



I've seen people do the seam before, and quite honestly, I think it looks kinda ghetto. But it definitely won't be going anywhere...

We did the three trunion holes on each side, and then two more tacks inside the receiver near the mag openings.

How are you doing the rear trunions? We did a tack on each upper corner on the outside, then ground back to a corner, and a fillet along the top surface of the trunion against the inside of the receiver. I burned through my receiver doing that weld :emb: but it's fixed now... we also did two tacks under the trunions if the stocks we were using would allow it--some did, some didn't.

I was just going to run a few plugs for the rear trunnion and then weld the INSIDE front edge that is in the reciever where there is no stock/nothing at all.

It should not move.


Oh and I am NOT making a "how to build a FAL variant at home" thread :laughing: fuck that :flipoff2:

Two of the builds we did had the front sight posts cut off and welded to the gas block, with a $1 tapco FAL muzzle break welded on. Looked pretty cool, but I didn't care too much for the front sight post/gas block thing.

I cut a FAL break in half and am going to weld it to a cut romy slant break so it will thread on.... eventually...

Not only do I love .99 parts but functionality is pretty cool also.
My gas regulator is fully functioning. I also think I am going to be able to get my M-7 (M16 bayonet) to work with that lug. :D










Well I think it is, haven't actually test shot it yet.

is the barrel pin tapered?

I'm trying to press it out and see pics on the net showing pressing it either way. If you're holding the gun. should you press it from right to left or left to right?

All of ours were weld-builds. Using a 120-grit sanding disc on a hand grinder, we smoothed down the welds flush with the surface of the receiver, which made it so you could barely tell where the welds were. Sandblasting removed almost all traces of weld, and park/duracoat covered most of the rest. Some kits have small circles in the finsh outlining the plug welds, but for the most part they came out very smooth.

When you say "weld builds", do you mean you bought the laser cut flats, like the one in this link: http://www.ar15plus.com/noc/shop/products_detail.asp?CategoryID=35&ProductID=228 ? Or are you just referring to the fact that you used plug welds instead of screws/rivets?

You might have already seen this site, since you mentioned you have seen it done either way, but he says to punch it out from left to right. The guy seems to be on top of his stuff, he documented his build very well, IMO.

When you say "weld builds", do you mean you bought the laser cut flats, like the one in this link: http://www.ar15plus.com/noc/shop/products_detail.asp?CategoryID=35&ProductID=228 ? Or are you just referring to the fact that you used plug welds instead of screws/rivets?


Doc is correct, they're plug welded together. We bent tapco flats in a press, and there are not any welds at any bends.

I have to say, this is freaking awesome. I had always ignored this thread for some unknown reason. I finally opened it yesterday and I read the entire thing from start to finish. I want to build two within the next three months or so.

I have a few questions. I have read the posts in this thread about .223 caliber AKs, but I also read a post mentioning a .308. Are .308 kits available? I have not seen any specifically marked on any of the sites selling kits mentioned in this thread. How do you know what caliber the different kits come in?

I am also thinking about using the laser cut flats ( http://www.ar15plus.com/noc/shop/products_detail.asp?CategoryID=35&ProductID=276 ), since I am fairly good with the mig welder. Seems like it would be easier than trying to track down (or build) a folding jig. Has anyone here experimented with these laser cut flats? What pros or cons can you think of?

I was also wondering, seems like quite a few of you folks are building quite a few rifles here, if someone were to ask what people are doing with all the kits they build, what answers do you think he might get? Selling them for profit, starting their own militia, collecting?

I wouldn't mind building enough that I could sell a couple and make my money back, maybe a little extra. Just wondering if anyone else was doing this.

I'm sure I will have some other questions as I get into this, thanks for the replies!

always press OUT left to right and press in right to left...always, any pin on any gun...


last weekend in Mesquite, I saw AMD65 kits priced at $449(WTF??) and three different tables had Romanian (complete) AKs for $309...why build? unless you want no numbers...not the money end anyway.

last weekend in Mesquite, I saw AMD65 kits priced at $449(WTF??) and three different tables had Romanian (complete) AKs for $309...why build? unless you want no numbers...not the money end anyway.

because I can :D and my build quality makes the ones for that price at the show look like a turd :flipoff2:

not like they can do shit anyway :laughing:


so did you rivet the trigger guards first or what?



For most of the kits, we tried to leave the exposed, round parts of the rivets in tact, and ground flush the inside so we could pry away the remains of the cut receiver. These rivets were then lined up with their corresponding holes on the receiver. The rear rivet was welded inside the receiver, with the remaining four being clamped and welded inside the receiver as well.

Trying to fit a mig gun inside a receiver with center bushing and rails is fun...

Some kits didn't have the rivets, or they were damaged. In that case each hole was plug welded and ground flush. They all came out very clean, regardless of which method was used.

HooHaa,
There is a company that makes .308 and 12g AK style weapons. Name is somelike Saiga. Someone else will know.

There is an 1980's eastern european made AK that was a .225/5.56NATO rifle. I have seen the kits, but they are expensive.

As for the .308/7.62x51 I don't think you will find a parts kit in this caliber. What I have seen done is people will use a Yugo kit, the ones with the buldges in the side of the front trunion. These were made to launch rifle grenades and are "beefier".
If you don't mind a loose bore you could get a chamber reamer and do the barrel from the kit. 7.62x39 is a .311 bore, 7.62x51 is a .308 bore.
If you have access to a lathe or the $$ to pay someone you can also get a barrel blank or a .308 barrel and get the exterior profile turned down to match the AK barrel.
Third option is to get a barrel and then make/modify the pieces that fit over the barrel to match the new diameters. You can find like new or lightly used .308 hunting rifle barrels for 25-75 on ebay. Seems like folks are getting .308 bolt guns and replacing the sporter barrels with heavy barrels.
4th options, get a FAL barrel, gas block, gas tube, and gas piston. Turn down the threaded portion to 23mm. Take the AK gas tube, the FAL gas tube, hacksaw and a welder- use the portion of the AK tube that goes into the rear sight block and attach it to the FAL tube. Cut down the FAL piston to the length of the AK piston and thread.

ither barrel method, you will also need to find a way to feed the ammo into the weapon. Current trend I have seen is folks take used steel G-3 mags (3$ online) not the alum ones and put a notch and tab on to mimic the AK mags. You will need to lengthen the mag opening, relocate the trigger guard and FSG. So either make your own receiver or use a prebent 80% that has no holes.

Pete

I was just reading this document: http://www.floridagunworks.com/ATF_Open_Letter_7_13_05.html and I had a couple questions. Does this really mean what is says, that there will be no more AKs imported, torched, and sold complete for parts? Does this mean that I should buy a kit now if I want one, because they probably won't last?

do you have to weld the rails? or is there another way to mount them?

do you have to weld the rails? or is there another way to mount them?



Well, you *could* rivet them if you wanted the extra work, but why bother.

weld is the way to go.

my screw kit came with the screws to put them in, but i was wondering if one hole is enough to hold them in

I would suggest welding the lower rails in. The ejector is part of the left side rail and I guarantee that it will take a beating if you shoot the gun much. I just think it could start loosening up after a relatively short period of time and cause more hassle than it is worth.

I was just reading this document: http://www.floridagunworks.com/ATF_Open_Letter_7_13_05.html and I had a couple questions. Does this really mean what is says, that there will be no more AKs imported, torched, and sold complete for parts? Does this mean that I should buy a kit now if I want one, because they probably won't last?

no just AK barrels in addition to AK recievers/frames.

So that means you will need a US made barrel in addition to a US made frame :shaking:

If you are serious about parkerizing and not going the rattle can bake on like me then i have a stainless tank i could trade you for some shit :D

Gentlemen:
I made my parkerizing tank out of 4" sched 40 drain pipe and a water heater element!

Worked real well.

Now, buy my hot bluing setup!

PT (former head of engineering for Schram's Custom Guns)

hey aloharover, you got any info like that for making a .223 AK ?

Norinco, Saiga, and Vepr made .223 AKs. Galil, the Isreali AK variant also was made in .223.

There are 223 kits around but they are expensive. I haven't looked to hard but I remember they were like $400-600. the AKS-74NU, AK-101 and AK-102 are 5.56 NATO rifles. K-Var sometimes has 5.56mm barrels, bolts, and carriers as well as a complete kit. Getting a barrel/bolt combo would be the best way to go if you can’t find a complete kit.

The other route would be to do the custom barrel thing like I mentioned in the thread. Either get a .22 caliber blank from Brownells and have it chambered and profiled, or pick up a .223 barrel from a bolt gun and have it profiled. Either way you need a lathe. Now you might be able to find a gunsmith that would do the work for you, probably charge 50-100$.

Then find an AK-74 bolt and carrier, the 5.45mm type. They will work with a romanian or yugoslavian 7.62 trunnion. The bolt face of the 5.45x39 is 10mm while a .223 is 9.60mm. So the bolt may work, or might need a little building up with braze or weld, and then turn the face to the proper dimension. Or use the 7.62 bolt which has an 11.3mm face and make a sleeve with a 11.3 outer dia and a 10mm inner dia and solder that in place. Or you find a 101/102 bolt.
The tail of the 5.45 bolt is narrower then the 7.62 bolt so if you use the 5.45 bolt in the 7.62 you will need to sleeve the tail as well.

Magazines for the 5.56/223 are much more common because it was an actual COMBLOC produced weapon.

Pete

Gentlemen:
I made my parkerizing tank out of 4" sched 40 drain pipe and a water heater element!

Worked real well.

Now, buy my hot bluing setup!

PT (former head of engineering for Schram's Custom Guns)

is Sched 40 PVC or iron pipe??

Pete

no just AK barrels in addition to AK recievers/frames.

So that means you will need a US made barrel in addition to a US made frame :shaking:

Just want to add its not just AKs but all imported kits. FALs, G-3s, Soumis, Uzis, Stens, Sterlings, Thompsons, etc.

Thompsons I really don't understand. They were manufactured in this country and then sold overseas. To import them they are now considered foreign imports.

All of this is related to the 922r stuff mentioned else where in the threAD.

pETE

This is good info. I am about to purchase a romanian kit that includes the G2 FCG for $129, then a SAW pistol grip, and some US made mag followers for my compliance parts.

I am still undecided on whether to buy a laser cut flat or a flat that requires a bending jig. I am leaning towards getting the non-cut flat, and then finding someone with a bending jig I could borrow, or heck, even making my own.

Would it be a bad idea for me to buy a couple with the intent of selling one? I read in this thread earlier that this is a bad idea if you sell too many, but what about just one or two? Does it matter that they will be unnumbered?

is Sched 40 PVC or iron pipe??

Pete

PVC! It actually works better as the phosphatizing solution will eventually build up on metal tanks thus reducing the thermal transfer efficiency. By using water heater elements, when the material built up to where it wouldn't work efficiently, I could just screw in another element. IIRC, about 150 F was enough for the process to go quickly.

PT

ps-answer your PM dammit!

Would it be a bad idea for me to buy a couple with the intent of selling one? I read in this thread earlier that this is a bad idea if you sell too many, but what about just one or two? Does it matter that they will be unnumbered?

NO

you can not build unnumbered weapons with the intent of sale. The BATF is even picky about giving them away.
DO NOT SELL UNNUMBERED WEAPONS !!

By using water heater elements, when the material built up to where it wouldn't work efficiently, I could just screw in another element.

PT,
your talking about a regular element from a home water heater right?

Damn, didn't even think of that.

Hmmm, looks like I will be stopping at Lowes soon.

Pete

NO

you can not build unnumbered weapons with the intent of sale. The BATF is even picky about giving them away.
DO NOT SELL UNNUMBERED WEAPONS !!

I found the BATF licensing FAQ just before you posted this, :laughing: the FAQ makes it fairly clear.

Still, if you cannot import AKs into the country, and you can't sell AKs you make from parts with no numbers, how do people sell AKs? Are they built from scratch here in the US? I'm just trying to see if there's a way I could make a little money doing this. Perhaps using numbered receivers?

I found the BATF licensing FAQ just before you posted this, :laughing: the FAQ makes it fairly clear.

Still, if you cannot import AKs into the country, and you can't sell AKs you make from parts with no numbers, how do people sell AKs? Are they built from scratch here in the US? I'm just trying to see if there's a way I could make a little money doing this. Perhaps using numbered receivers?

You get an FFL and become a weapons manufacturer. Then each weapon you build gets a unique serial number, that you make up and imprint into the receiver. I believe I read that the numbers need to be .004" deep and there are also regs covering the size of the numbers. You must also imprint a manufacturers name, city and state. I think date is optional. Name can be like HooHaaInc or some such.

Or yes, you buy a receiver through an FFL holder that has a serial number and all the other info already on it. The complete receiver in this case is considered the weapon.

... just left the house :flipoff2:

I've been following this thread for a while (I'll admit though, I haven't read all 450+ posts), but still have a couple of questions. I used to own one of the variants, a Romanian example IIRC, but that was long before I was turned on to this thread.

Mine wasn't really all that accurate, and the front sight was terribly misaligned. Mine question is this:

Hypothetically, if I wanna build a 16" +/- folder, what can I expect to spend (realistically now, no lyin' :laughing: ), and how accurate/reliable can I expect it to be? I realize that it's not gonna be a 1000 yd. comp rifle, but I would want to be fairly accurate out to around 200 yds. with open sights.

Either take it easy on me or ignore me completely, I don't have a fire extinguisher handy...:laughing:

-WRM

well you can fix canted sights if you still have the weapon. It ealy is not that hard to do :D
My first price list (like page 3 or 4) is building a AMD-65 that is as short of a folder as you can get without ATF bs. It will put 2-3 inch groups all day with CHEAP AS FUCK wolf HP bullets at 200 yds.
It is frighteningly accurate :eek: I shit you not. I really want to scope the bitch one day with some "good" ammo and see what it can really do.

edit::
AMD 65 parts kit $70 (OK THIS HAS CHANGED !!!! make that $225 for an average AMD-65 kit)
us made grip $20 (you can get others for like $6)
us made forend $20 (you can use other ones also or just replace the pistol grip on an AMD65 with another US made pistol grip)
fire control group $30
gas piston $20
muzzle brake $20
screws taps and drill bits $15
reciever $60

Thanks Doc. So for around $250 bones (roughly) I can have a quality AK variant, looks like I need to do some more searching on the net for parts...

The only reason I was thinking of a folder was basically for the cool factor, but wouldn't really be necessary for me. I like the fact that you've got some to shoot that tight with open sights, that may very well change my mind about getting/building another one.

If I do decide to build one, I'll probably build two. In your experience with the kits, do you think I should buy more than two kits? I mean, to deal with the potential of getting crappy components.

-WRM

Hypothetically, if I wanna build a 16" +/- folder, what can I expect to spend (realistically now, no lyin' :laughing: ), and how accurate/reliable can I expect it to be? I realize that it's not gonna be a 1000 yd. comp rifle, but I would want to be fairly accurate out to around 200 yds. with open sights.
-WRM

Romy kit from Tapco with the fire control group, receiver flat, and their plastic furniture including a side folder would be $215 plus shipping. Thats all your compliance parts and everything for a complete rifle.

You just need to bend the flat. You can find 80% bent flats that need all the holes drilled still for about 50$, so 250$ total.

Or get a 100% receiver through an FFL for about 100$, so 300$ for the complete rifle.

You can find solid wood Romy kits for 75-100$ depending on quality.
Solid wood Yugos, 75-125.
Under folder yugos 150+
AK style under folder or a side folder stock alone can be found for 50-60$.

The AKMS's we had in the Army were captured in Grenada and we shoot them on standard 300m qualification course with great results.
All the beet up Romys we had in Iraq were good at 100m, didn't try further.
I have yet to test fire my own build, but I expect 100m centermass.

I feel that the accuracy of these is 99% barrel. Get a good barrel and you will have a good shooter.

Bocefus on the akfiles.net is selling kits. Everything I have heard even his bad kits are great. 80-85$
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9089&page=1&pp=35

I read a bit more on the BATF website, and on gunco.net as well, and it seems to me that I could sell an unmarked AK as long as I did it through a FFL and had my name scribed on it as the manufacturer. This actually came more from the gunco.net guys than anything I have been able to find on BATF's site, but it almost makes sense. I will keep looking on BATF's site for more about this.

I read a bit more on the BATF website, and on gunco.net as well, and it seems to me that I could sell an unmarked AK as long as I did it through a FFL and had my name scribed on it as the manufacturer. This actually came more from the gunco.net guys than anything I have been able to find on BATF's site, but it almost makes sense. I will keep looking on BATF's site for more about this.

The big thing is that you can build for personal use, you can't build to sell.
If you build with the intent to sell, then you are a manufacturer. Don't pay the manufacturer license and taxes and BATF and IRS will come knocking.

Now if you buy a weapon and then later on you decide you don't want it anymore, you can sell it.

Somewhere there is this grey area, made it for me, then got tired of it and sold it.

I just wouldn't build the rifle unless you get a registered receiver.

For anyone reading this, I'm still not even sure that this is a valid option. I can't find anything on BATF's site that says you can build an unnumbered rifle and then have it numbered to sell through a FFL (who is not you). I am still digging though.

I am not trying to salvage the idea of building unnumbered rifles to make some extra cash, I just want to know that I will be able to get my money back from this one if it comes to that in the future.

Well I've been reading more and more. I have spent lots of time in ak47.net and gunco.net, both great sites! Unfortunately they seem to be taking their time in approving my registration, I registered a couple days ago.

Question: seems like between the three or four AK builders/hoarders on this thread, you should have a pretty good working knowledge of the AK FCG. I bought a Tapco FCG with my romanian kit, and I was wondering how you folks like them. Do they need polishing/modification to pull smoothly? I really enjoy trigger work, so if there is anything you have tried I would like to hear about it.

Another question: Is there a good reason why the AMD65 kits have more than doubled in price in a year? I understand supply and demand, but I was wondering if there were certain issues which might reverse sometime, so that the kits will come down to the $100 range once again.

Question: seems like between the three or four AK builders/hoarders on this thread, you should have a pretty good working knowledge of the AK FCG. I bought a Tapco FCG with my romanian kit, and I was wondering how you folks like them. Do they need polishing/modification to pull smoothly? I really enjoy trigger work, so if there is anything you have tried I would like to hear about it.

Another question: Is there a good reason why the AMD65 kits have more than doubled in price in a year? I understand supply and demand, but I was wondering if there were certain issues which might reverse sometime, so that the kits will come down to the $100 range once again.

I simply pollished the engagement area on the trigger hook and hammer. No reshaping or grinding, just hit it with some 300 sand paper then the grey rubber like pollishing wheel that is a dremel "bit". Its a very smooth release. Only other thing I am considering is to drill the under side of the trigger, tap for a 2x40 set screw so I can limit overtravel. My trigger breaks about 1/2 way through the squeeze. Playing around with it, shortening the travel will not effect the disconnector from grabbing the hammer during cycling. Pretty important if you don't want to go C-III by mistake :eek:

Do a search on AMD 65 Kit. I was just on a website last night looking for either G3 or FAL parts and someone was selling them for 125.

Kit prices are only going to go up. The kits I ordered last week and arrived yesterday I payed 80$ for. Called today to get some more, 120 now. Same dealer, same exact kit :shaking:

Pete

found the link: 125$ AMD65s and 100$ Yugos
http://www.centuryarms.com/store/index.php?cPath=37

found the link: 125$ AMD65s and 100$ Yugos
http://www.centuryarms.com/store/index.php?cPath=37

ummm...I bring you...THE SUCK

Per government regulations, all of the parts on the brand new AMD-65’s are included in our kits except the receiver and barrel.

ummm...I bring you...THE SUCK


:mad3: :mad3: :mad3:

And they do have barrels with the trunnion for the same amount. WTF. I bet that they removed the barreles and are selling them.
F-ing photo is misleading. I didnt actually open up the description, wasn't going to order one, just saw the price. Asshats :mad3:

:mad3: :mad3: :mad3:

And they do have barrels with the trunnion for the same amount. WTF. I bet that they removed the barreles and are selling them.
F-ing photo is misleading. I didnt actually open up the description, wasn't going to order one, just saw the price. Asshats :mad3:

the barrels are either pulled (and they WILL fuck shit up like pins/trunnion) or the middle is torched out between the trunnion and the gas block.

you "could" cut down a romanian barrel but the AMD barrels are fucking sweet

No problem, blame the ATF.

Question: Do underfolder stocks attach to the rear trunion, or do they somehow fit into the receiver? If they do attach to the trunion, is there a special type of trunion you have to find in order to use one? I want to replace the wood stock, and I was thinking about buying a tapco side folder, but I've read some negative reviews that push me towards the authentic military stuff.

If the underfolder won't work out with a Romanian, I could always find a Romanian side folder. I've hear good things about them.

No problem, blame the ATF.

Question: Do underfolder stocks attach to the rear trunion, or do they somehow fit into the receiver? If they do attach to the trunion, is there a special type of trunion you have to find in order to use one? I want to replace the wood stock, and I was thinking about buying a tapco side folder, but I've read some negative reviews that push me towards the authentic military stuff.

If the underfolder won't work out with a Romanian, I could always find a Romanian side folder. I've hear good things about them.

the AK stock folders need a special trunnion. Centerfiresystems.com has romy side folder stocks with trunnions for 60$ think the underfolder with trunnion was 80. But you can get a complete underfolderyugo on a milled receiver for the same price. Will need to get a trunnion, or make one, but you also have all the internals and a good barrel.

also look at ace stocks. pretty pricey but they havre a very nice metal side folder with all the bits. around 150. its components though, so you could get the basic stock for under a 100 and then get the hinge piece later.
ee
the tapco side is also complete. comes with a block that attaches to the stock wood trunnion

i am feeding the 3mo, so excuse the typing :D

pete

What does "dark bore" refer to? Is it just in reference to the fact that the yugo barrels are not chromed? or does it mean the barrels are shot out/corroded?

What is the difference between a milled receiver and a stamped receiver? Could I buy a yugo underfolder kit with a milled receiver and use the underfolder and trunion on my Romy, which I'm assuming will have the "stamped" receiver (since I'm bending the flat myself)?

I have cleaned the gunk out of two dark bore kits so far and both of them are bright and shiney. Supposedly dark bore is bad, bright is good. But sometimes the dark bores are just super dirty.

A milled receiver has no trunnions. The trunnions are milled along with the rest of the receiver from a single piece of bar stock.
But a milled kit will give you a perfectly functioning folding stock, barrel, gas tube, carrier, bolt, receiver cover, fcg, selector switch, and trigger guard. Basically everythign except the front and rear trunnion. The price was so good on the milled underfolders that I bought those instead of just the underfold stocks. I can make my own rear trunnion and then I have a bunch of spare parts. I will know after I clean it up, but it might even have a good barrel, which will be worth more then I paid for the entire kit in a few months :D

My 16.25" barrel is cut down from a stock romy barrel. Actually cut down to somewhere around 13" and then has the FAL flash suppressor pinned on to the end of it bringing it back to legal length.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5133352&postcount=445

http://www.frappr.com/akbuilders

http://www.frappr.com/akbuilders

eeek :eek: fuck that :laughing: I aint paraniod but that is ASKING for attention :flipoff2:

Would you just ream out the bore a bit or would you convert to 308?

I am going to turn down the outside diameter of a .308 barrel to fit into a Yugo trunnion. The 7.62x39 bore is actually .311 inches while a .308 is .308.
The British .303 is also a .311 bore so there is a source for AK barrel blanks.

I am using a used barrel to build up a proof of concept. if it all works I will then drop the money for a Shilen 308 barrel blank. Leave it at the full 26".
I want to lengthen the gas tube and piston. i feel that moving them further forward will delay the cycling. If you can delay it until the round is almost out of the barrel you lesson any likelyhood of the cycling of the action causing any barrel movement. I really feel that it will be possible to make a 1000 yd AK. I have designed (on paper) a full floating front end for the AK. Will have a Harris under it and then use an SVD style butt stock (9$ from Centerfire).

Pete

I just bought a yugoslavian underfolder, I hope the stock turns out tight. I've heard lots of stories about these yugo kits having "sewer pipe" barrels.

I have the Yugo underfolder from CFS. I haven't built it yet, but as it is now its very tight.
I have fired underfolders in the past. These were battlefield pickups from Grenada or Iraq and I was pleased with the stock. It works. Probably because its based on a pre WWII German design :flipoff2: While I consider Kalishnikov(sp) a genius he purposefully designed his weapon loose. its what makes them so reliable. But the mechanism of the underfolder is identicle to the German MPs.

Pete

For anyone else that has been ordering kits from centerfiresystems.com and getting their 20$ Suomi kits here are a couple links what have build details.
http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=520
http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=3;t=12553;st=0

I don't plan on discussing further in this thread, but it seemed an appropriate place to add the links.

Pete

I am going to turn down the outside diameter of a .308 barrel to fit into a Yugo trunnion. The 7.62x39 bore is actually .311 inches while a .308 is .308.
The British .303 is also a .311 bore so there is a source for AK barrel blanks.


Ok, so you are actually going to build a .308 AK. I got it now.

This is a great idea, you can still use cheap military ammo, and the accuracy should be superb. I definitely want to follow this build once you start it.

Excuse my ignorance, but what would be different in the ak setup to create a floating barrel? I know that my pistol has a floating barrel, but I am not sure I understand how you would do this to an AK.

And about the gas tube lengthening idea, what do you think about just restricting the port a bit? I would think if you restricted it enough the bullet would beat the expanding gas in the gas tube.

Can someone point me in the right direction here? I'd love to find where to get this front/rear sight combo, or at least the front sight. I could possibly build the rear sight (I believe it's a hinged model).

-WRM

Can someone point me in the right direction here? I'd love to find where to get this front/rear sight combo, or at least the front sight. I could possibly build the rear sight (I believe it's a hinged model).

-WRM

that would be a krinkov or a krink

That front sight will cost you some :laughing: seriously.

you have options of welding/making your own. sending me 2 regular front sight blocks and bribing me to make one or getting this
http://www.aceltdusa.com/images04/AK/AK5%20%20(104CS_AKS)_med.jpg
http://www.aceltdusa.com/ak.htm

or modify this one
http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16563&cat=290&page=1

http://www.k-var.com/shop/images/AK-142B1.jpg

80$ :eek:

So it's pressed and pinned on the bbl and then threaded for an extension. What are the threads?
24mmx1.5

What are you doing for your bending fixture? I can't decide if I should just go ahead and build my own, or if I should try to bum one off of someone. :laughing:

What are you doing for your bending fixture? I can't decide if I should just go ahead and build my own, or if I should try to bum one off of someone. :laughing:

Basically, I'm gonna build one of these:

http://www.gunco.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7028

with a few "personal" touches. ;)

If it works out as well as I hope, I'll build another for a "loaner." But, I never build anything "lightweight" so shipping will probably be murder :laughing: .

-WRM

If it works out as well as I hope, I'll build another for a "loaner." But, I never build anything "lightweight" so shipping will probably be murder :laughing: .

-WRM

My first jig was the same 555th type. Costs about 15-20$ to mail.
When I get it back I will post here and make it available to pirate builders :D

Pete

anybody seen an AK with a Galil receiver cover and rear sight on it?

http://remtek.com/arms/imi/galil/rsight.gif

We used a stub cut from the de-milled receiver, which worked great, but was a bit of work to keep everything lined up.


The problem with paper templates is you have to make damn sure your print margins are set to accurately print out the image, otherwise you'll end up with holes that are off by a few mm

Agree on the templates. I spent a lot of time with a ruller until I got one to print just right. As soon as I had it perfect I went and photo copied it. Double checked and the photocopy is correct so ran off a dozen more.

I should mention this was for a plain receiver, not an underfolder otherwise I would offer to snailmail one.

First thing to check is that the thing is right at 10.25" long. if the length prints out right then start checking other measurements. Don't worry about hole diameters, instead check the center to center. Either on Gunco or Pookies I found a receiver blueprint that had tons of measurements on it.

Pete

...


What style of AKs are you planning on building? Any custom jobs? Any underfolders? Or just the basic generic fixed stock AK?

What receivers are you building off of? 80% or are you bending your own flats?

What's your timeframe? Is everyone planning on getting everything done in one weekend? Or can you space it out over a couple weekends/weekdays? The reason we had such a crunch time was that most of the guys building were from out of town, with the closest being 4 hours away. We had to get everything done that weekend, or they'd be going home without rifles.

Realistically, 10 rifles could be built from scratch in one weekend if everyone is busting ass. Any more than that, you will definitely want to consider planning on taking a few weekends or weekdays, rather than just the one weekend. That's all assuming you're bending flats and heat treating yourself. If you're using registered receivers that have been heat treated, it's possible for 6 people to put at least 20-25 together in one day, with the day starting at 7:00am and ending around 11:00pm.

I will try to cover every aspect of our build weekend in this post. This is gonna be long... :laughing:


Bending:

You obviously will need a bending jig for this. We used a 20-ton Harbor Freight press for the bend process. Look for a tutorial on www.sksboards.com in the AK build section. That pics for that tutorial were taken during our build.

We used lithium grease, which worked the best out of 3 different kinds of grease we had available. Use more than you think you'll need. Even with every part covered, the jig did manage to scratch some of the receivers. However, all but the deepest scratches came out during sandblasting.


Receiver Assembly:

We stamped each receiver "Feb 2006 USA" for obvious reasons, should there ever be an all-out ban on these rifles, these will be grandfathered in by the date. At least that's our thinking. If in the future, you see any rifle with this marking on it, you'll know where it came from. You can barely make it out in this pic:
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/691/ak019eb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Welding the Receiver rails:

This pic is a complete receiver before assembly. Notice the scratches on the side. These minor scratches appeared on every flat bent, but were smoothed out later in building. There is no center pin in this pic, because we did not use any actual "center pins". Instead we used bar stock cut to length, then welded in place.
http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/9873/ak053kf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

To weld the rails into the receiver, most manufactures use 4-5 small TIG welds. We used two MIG welds per side, followed by three welds inside the receiver. Reason being is time. We simply did not have enough time to drill 5 holes per side on each receiver. 10 holes x 32 flats = a shit load of holes and drill bits.

Below shows the location of the four holes we drilled, all other holes were predrilled in the flat:
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4049/ak025pb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This pic shows inside the finished receiver, showing the location of two of the three additional welds we did to the rails. Also pointed out is one of the trunion welds. Sorry for the dirty rifle pic, I just shot it, and haven't cleaned it yet...
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/9167/ak049wr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Trigger Guard:

We used the original trigger guard that comes in the kits. It will need to be removed from the demilled receiver first. Or you can buy a new one. First, start by welding the rear tab of the trigger guard with a single plug weld. Then position and clamp the front part of the guard and weld. We welded most through the inside of the receiver, allowing us to keep the original rivets on the outside for a much cleaner look.
Heat Treating:

Once the receiver has been complete, it needs to be heat treated. Three parts of each build needs heat treatment: the ejector nub, and both FCG pin holes. For the ejector rails, we heat treated three times, and only did twice for the FCG holes. Keep in mind that each ejector nub will need to be "trimmed" based on each kit. If you heat treat first, then fit, you will need to heat treat again, as you will be grinding away your newly hardened surface. We simply heat treated the rail again after doing the pin holes, and haven't had any problems.

The heat treating process we used for the rail was to heat only the actual nub itself, heating to glowing orange, then quench in motor oil. We heated and quenched each nub three times. We used an Oxy/Acet setup, as propane simply takes too long to bring up to heat.

Heat treating the receiver was a bit more involved. I held the receiver with a pair of vice grips, someone else heated one hole on one side. I then flipped the receiver and he heated the other side. Flip once again and heat the same hole again, then quench in oil. Don't remove from the oil until all bubbles have stopped rising from the surface. We started with the trigger holes, then did the hammer holes, then the ejector nub. Don't be suprised if the oil catches on fire. We had this happen several times, and blowing it out was sufficient. It's best to do this outdoors :laughing: and make sure the wife doesn't mind the smell of burnt oil permeating the garage for a while. Depending on the amount of oil you have, it's a good idea to keep an eye on the oil's temp, and allow it to cool as necessary. 10 rifles shouldn't be too bad, but when we did 32, we had to let the stuff cool half way through.


Cleaning Phase #1

It is critically important that ALL grease, dirt, oil, and any other crap be removed from the metal prior to welding in trunions. The rails don't take nearly the abuse, and aren't as critical of a weld as the trunions are, therefore only basic surface prep is needed. However for the trunions, it needs to be as clean as you can get it. We soaked the receivers in a concentrated degreaser solution in a 5gal bucket, then wiped clean and allowed to air dry.


Welding the Trunions:

This is where a vice is required. We started by placing the barrel in the vice, then measuring and marking the receiver to be trimmed. 2.5" of the top rail will need to be removed to allow the receiver to slide over the trunion. Depending on your kit, you can get away with only removing .75" on the right rail. The left rail will need 2.5" removed regardless. There's nothing scientific about this process, just check and fit, and keep doing so until it fits tight. The front edge of the receiver should be even with the front edge of the trunion.

Once this is done, C-clamp the hell out of it, so that it will not move. Attach the gas tube to the barrel. It doesn't need the furniture, you only need the tube as a guide for the gas piston. Insert the bolt carrier, and mark on the receiver the areas it binds. Grind away *slightly* down the length of the top rails. Do not grind the lower rails. Make one or two even passes down each side, and test the bolt carrier again. Keep doing this until you can cycle the action. It wil be snug, but as long as you can cycle it without forcing too hard, you should be good. Push the bolt carrier all the way forward, and leave in that position.

It is a good idea to test fit everything with a magazine in place. The lower right side of every rail needed to be trimmed in order for the magazine to fit straight in the rifle. It is important that the mag fit correctly, otherwise the bolt and carrier will not cycle smoothly.

Next, mark the rear of the receiver for the rear trunion. You will need to remove .75" from the top rail to fit the reart trunion. Once the rear has been fitted, C-clamp the hell out of it, making sure that it will not move. Cycle the action again, and mark areas that bind. Grind away the rails until the action cycles smooth, but snug. Push the bolt carrier all the way forward, and measure 1" from the rear of the receiver along the top rail and cut out enough to allow the bolt carrier to be lifted up and out of the receiver.

Now it's time to drill the front trunion holes. Keeping everything clamped together tightly, measure and mark the locations of your trunion rivets, which will vary by kit. We drilled the holes about 1-2 mm into the trunion for the weld.

Now weld everything up, but keep the clamps on while everything is cooling.

Once everything has cooled, sand down the welds to give the rifle nice smooth sides.

Cleaning Phase #2:

It is critical to clean the rifles again before sand blasting, otherwise you risk contaminating your blast media. To clean the rifles one last time, we soaked each rifle in degreaser for a while, then boiled each rifle in a huge propane-heated stainless steel sink. It was about 3'x3', and we used two propane turkey frier elements to heat the tank. After boiling for about 20 minutes, each rifle was pulled and wiped clean. You would be amazed at the amount of crap that boiled off. So much crap came out that we decided to boil a second time. After boiling a second time, we then scrubbed with a chemical-neutralizing soap found in most chem labs used for cleaning lab equipment.


Sandblasting:

Get a plug for the chamber. Cork works, but we used a rubber plug.

We used an aluminum oxide blast media for all our blasting. Each barreled receiver took about 10 minutes to blast, and each additional part such as gas tubes and selector levers took an additional 5 each. Blasting was definitely one of the more involved aspects of the process. I blasted for about 6 hours straight. It was 20* outside, maybe 30* in the garage. My fingers were freezing in the gloves. Fun stuff. I was still blasting when the sun came up that next morning.

After sandblasting, it is critical that the rifles be layed out somewhere where they will not get dirty. We hung ours to keep them out of the way. It is also important that only latex-gloved hands touch the bare metal, otherwise rust will form. This rust will contaminate the parkerizing solution.

Cleaning Phase #3

This cleaning phase is to remove all blast media from the rifle prior to parkerizing. Soap and wate is sufficient. Problem areas are inside the gas tube opening on the trunion, areas where the inner rails meet the receiver, and inside the mag catch lever. Clean all this shit out, as best as you can.

Parkerizing Prep:

Once the blasted rifle has been cleaned, you will need to suspend it however you can to dip into a clensing solution. We used long pieces of wood with wires attached to suspend the rifles in denatured alcohol for about 5-10 minutes. This removes any last remaining dirt or oil, and prepares the metal for the chemical reaction during parkerizing.

Parkerizing:

In order to propperly parkerize, you will need a solution. This solution will need to be mixed on the spot, and should only be mixed when you are ready to begin parkerzing, as the solution does not last very long once started. You will need to keep it at a constant 180* temperature. To keep this temperature, we boiled each rifle again, bringing it up to 170-180* before dipping in parkerizing solution. This prevented too much heat loss in the solution, and kept consistant results during our build.

Once suspended in the solution, each rifle was left in until the reaction was complete. Some rifles took longer than others, but none took longer than 10 minutes. Once out of the park tank, they were held over jet propane heaters to dry.

The barrels do not need to be plugged during this process. Parkerizing is a chemical reaction, similar to rust, that forms on the outside of the bare metal. It does not react with the chrome in a chrome-lined bore, and is simply scrubbed out with a wire brush.

Duracoat:

Duracoat was applied using an paint sprayer with a small compressor. The duracoat will need to be mixed before being applied. It will come with instructions on how to mix. Once the duracoat was mixed and the rifles were out of the park solution, they were suspended by wires and sprayed. We found that the tang on the rear trunion worked great to suspend the rifles. Rifles without this tang, such as underfolders or side folders were suspended from the front sight post. Each rifle was sprayed as evenly as possible, then allowed to hang and air dry.

You will need adequate ventallation during the duracoat process. Two small box fans does not provide adequate air flow, and our duracoat guy almost passed out from the fumes. A respirator would be handy, but we only had masks.

Duracoat dries within 8 hours, and is ready to go within 11. Do not begin assembling rifles as soon as the duracoat has dried. Wait at least 3 days to put anything together. Or if you wish, you can bake in an oven to speed the curing.

And that's pretty much all I can think of for now. If I think of anything more, I'll post up.




Your garage will need to be bigger, or more space will need to be cleared if everyone wants to have room to spread out. And yes, you'll definitely need layout room. We had a 2-car garage, and were able to use about 70% of the floorspace. Even still, we were a bit cramped at times. During various stages of the build, we had to rearrange the workspaces to accomodate for everyone's needs. We had a large table in the middle of the garage. on each corner was a bench vice. Between each vice was a drill press or bench grinder. All other table space was taken up by hand tools. We had additional tables for laying out completed kits.

As far as tooling goes, everyone building a rifle needs a bench vise. Basically the way we worked was while the rifle was being assembled, it was in a vice. All work to that specific rifle was done in that vice. The welder was positioned to reach each vice, and the weldor would come and weld as needed.

Each person will also need a 4.5" hand grinder, and several sanding discs. Grinding stones are too harsh for this work, and should be avoided. 120 grit pads work great for trimming rails, which will need to be done on a kit-by-kit basis. You can use a dremel if you wish, but that will take easily double the time it takes with a grinder. Wire wheels for the grinder should also be available. We hit everything with a wire wheel before sandblasting, which made the blasting go much faster. We did manage to burn up one hand grinder during this process, so be aware.

A minimum of one drill press should be available. We had 2, and that seemed sufficient. You can use a hand drill if you wish, but a drill press will make drilling out the rivets and trunion holes 100 times easier, and more consistant.

Holy crap that was a great post.

I'm having some big doubts now. I'm starting to think that I need to participate in someone else's build, or do a couple of my own before I try to organize a build party.

And the more I think about my garage the more I am thinking this would need to happen elsewhere.

Holy crap that was a great post.

I'm having some big doubts now. I'm starting to think that I need to participate in someone else's build, or do a couple of my own before I try to organize a build party.

And the more I think about my garage the more I am thinking this would need to happen elsewhere.


With a smaller space, 3-4 people building 1 rifle each wouldn't be too bad, it's when you start getting more and more that the problems begin to crop up. None of us had ever built an AK before, we just spent many months researching and reading and posting questions. It all started around September or so last year with me and a shooting buddy starting to talk about building an AK. We spent the next few months reading, researching, and preparing for a build. Then as word got around, more people jumped on, and more rifles got thrown into the project.

It can be done, but it's not as easy as anyone would like. It's not like "hey guys let's build some AKs this weekend...". There has to be a lot of work by all members to bring everything together. We had one person responsible for all welding and all costs and materials involved, one person for duracoating processes and expenses, one person for parkerizing costs and expenses, and other contributors of time, work and money. In the end it worked out great. Everyone pooled our resources together to make sure the build was successful.

One thing we did that made things go very smooth was start a private forum where we all could post up any information we came across. This was a way of storing readily available information all in one place, and made it possible for us to all communicate with each other and coordinate who was bringing what tools for the build.

It definitely helped.

Here is the package I received from Centerfire Systems Inc.:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/brsmith/AK/P1010095.jpg

It was beaten to heck when it was dropped off by the UPS guy. I opened it with one hand, ripped one piece of tape and everything fell out. This picture was basically taken immediately after opening the box, everything was just tossed in there like this. I have no idea if I even received everything, pretty much any part could have fallen out of several large holes and gaps in the box. The parts were loose in there, and the Suomi barrel crown was damaged during shipping because of the poor packaging.

I am happy with everything but the packaging. I might consider ordering again from them, but I would make sure to specify that I don't want an armload of parts tossed in a box and then sealed with one wrap of packing tape.



Here is the package I received from Copes Distributing:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/brsmith/AK/P1010097.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/brsmith/AK/P1010098.jpg

Everything was neatly and snugly packed in the box, with all the parts kits wrapped in plastic bags like this:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/brsmith/AK/P1010100.jpg

I will definitely buy from Copes again. They screwed up my order just a bit by not letting me know it was on hold waiting for receivers, but they made up for that by bumping my shipping up to 3 day select.

I am very happy with my Copes order.

One of the Romy G2 kits I ordered had paper in the barrel, pretty good condition.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/brsmith/AK/P1010113.jpg

One of the Romy G2 kits I ordered had paper in the barrel, pretty good condition.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/brsmith/AK/P1010113.jpg

:eek:
Ohooooh.
Looks like a glitter bomb. Be extremely careful removing the o\paper.

:D

2 questions
doc where are you getting your 100% receivers from
and id thee a easy way to get all the cosmoline(sp) crap off?

2 questions
doc where are you getting your 100% receivers from
and id thee a easy way to get all the cosmoline(sp) crap off?

1) an assortment of places. it depends who has them in stock. some gun shops (not in MD or CA) will have them in stock.

2) brake cleaner or a steam cleaner or both
:laughing:
Those little steam cleaner things work great on wood but I just hose the fuckers down with brake clean or another solvent.

work with them while they are warm. cold cosmoline is a BITCH to get off.

I used lacquer thinner to take the cosmoline off. I placed all the small parts in a coffee mug full of thinner and soaked them, it cut right through the stuff. Just douse a rag with thinner and wipe down the wood and the larger metal parts.

Purple Power degreaser,

x2
Available by the gal from Walmart. It even removes the wood finish.

I have a parts washer tank, SWMBO found at a garage sale for 15$. 5 gal capacity, motor and a stand. Sweet deal.
Anyway I use either simple green or purple power in it depending on the deal I find for 5gals.
I just drop all the parts in and fish them out the next day.

You could look for a large tupperware container at Walmart to use for a cleaning tank.
SWMBO has a bunch of large flat containers meant to fit under the bed. They are about 2 gal capacity, 6x12x24. Perfect size for a dip tank and the ones with a real tight lid help keep the smell under control.
Oh, and keep this in the GARAGE not under the bed.

After the overnight dip, an old tooth brush helps get the rest off. Don't forget safety google and rubber gloves.

I have a small steam cleaner. looks like a coffee pot with a 3' hose. Can put different attachments on the end of the hose, like brass or steel brushes. I use this all the time for car parts, hadn't thought about it but will work great for the gun stuff.
Pete

Now I definitely have to intercept the credit card statement before she does :laughing: I was on centerfire's site this morning and saw that the krink kit and the yugo underfolder "milled" kit were sold out :eek:

I had planned on waiting until my first kit was done before ordering one more, but I figured I oughta get 3 stamped yugo underfolders before they're sold out. I'm not a big fan of "kit-hoarding," but I don't see anything wrong with sitting on two of the kits for a while. Maybe I can make enough profit off them in a year or so to pay for my initial two kits :smokin: .

-WRM

Yeah I was waiting till closer to the middle of the month to place another order. Those milled kits are a great deal when you look at the cost of all the parts individually. Can't believe they are gone :crybaby2:

Plus you can rebuild a milled kit legally using the old receiver stubs, I have a copy of the BATF letter.
1-Make the cuts straight and square and weld in some plate the same thickness.
2-Have also seen where someone milled down the sides so that they would fit inside a stock sized stamped receiver.
3-Or make a reciever wider then stock and make a couple longer pins.

Either route you have a cheep underfolder.

Pete

also what is the hole in the back of the orignal wood stock for? with the spring, was it a cleaning kit or something?

also what is the hole in the back of the orignal wood stock for? with the spring, was it a cleaning kit or something?

looks like a "pill" shape with a screw on top :D

so for your 100% receivers just any brand or is there one that is better than the others?
i was looking for some onling and did not find many

so for your 100% receivers just any brand or is there one that is better than the others?
i was looking for some onling and did not find many

of the ones I have used:
JoeKen: shipping sucked but was a verry accurate receiver as for the way it was made (stepped rails and shit) the only trimming was the inner rails need to be ground down to the same height as the mag well dimples on the inside or the magazine will hit them.

Ohio Ordnance: cheap and worked good but required trimming all around. The selector hole is too high and you have to modify the selector on the inside. you also have a gap at the top of the selector stop and the dust cover

so for your 100% receivers just any brand or is there one that is better than the others?
i was looking for some onling and did not find many



We built several Tantal kits using Global Trades receivers. We used the thickest ones they offer, and they turned out great. Just another option to consider.

I believe they are located in Houston...

We built several Tantal kits using Global Trades receivers. We used the thickest ones they offer, and they turned out great. Just another option to consider.

I believe they are located in Houston...

BUT

ya got to shave the trunnion sides with the thick one they offer :D

websites?
prices?

http://207.176.137.9/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=280&cat=AK+Receivers
$54.99


http://www.globaltrades.com/ak_receivers.html
$69.99

http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/Index/parts.htm
$59.95