Someone once told me I'd have to get custom shafts made. Does that same someone (or anyone) know why???

I was thinking of narrowing my 14bolt and 8-lug-44 for my scout (just a couple inches wider than stock scout)

PS: in the new "JP" magazine there's an informative article about shortening a front axle. FOR ANYONE INTERESTED.

well if you narrow the housing youll need to narrow the axel shafts too hence the word"custom" jiMMy

WOW <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> REALLY.....c'mon I knew that.....

What I was meaning was that "someone" told me that my shafts couldn't just be cut down, and respline but that I would HAVE to order custom shafts from someone like "DYNATRAC" for example....

If you were cutting a d70 you would have to replace the shafts, because they neck down the shaft, it's probably the same with the 14 bolts.

Hmmmm good point, not sure about it.

What about shaving a FF14bolt for clearance, I'm thinking that between doing that and narrowing it, I would be at or less than the weight of a (full width)D60 with (HOPEFULLY) equal or better Ground Clearance.

Anyone shave a 14 before?? GOT PICS???

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Cliffhanger ]

I think a 60 would still be smaller/lighter, but It really wouldn't matter much either way, 14 bolts are good stuff.

You might look into leaving it full width and going with massive offset in the rear wheels, along with some 1/2 ton brakes. It would save $300, plus the narrowing work.

My 14 bolt shafts don't neck down... But I do think they are rolled splines, not cut. I could also be hallucinating?

Squash

My axle shafts neck down. 1.540" od at the splines 1.360" od on the shaft.

my 14bolt axles do neck down a bit and could not be cut down. why narrow a 14bolt? go find a cab and chassis dually chevy and get the rear end from it. the cab and chassis version dually 14bolt rears are 62" wide instead of the standard single rear wheel or standard duallys width of 67". you'll spend time and $$$ narrowing a standard 14bolt when you can just go find one of these rears and be done with it. that is what i run. i narrowed my front 60 to match.

Well I had posted the fact that most 14bolts neck down after the splines and that most d70s dont. I thought you could use a d70 axle shaft and have it cut down, but it depends on what 14bolt you have. There is a 10.5 in one and a 9.75 one I think and the axle spline counts are different. But if you are getting them resplined just match it to the side gears.I also am not sure if the axle shaft end bolt patterns are the same between the d70 and 14bolt. As far as the clearancing of te housing I believe you can cut it down to the same as an uncut 60.

High 5 you said the same ting on the post I wrote this info on before and how common are these cab and chassis axles cause I dont think I have ever seen one from Alaska to Idaho.What dually came narrowed and are the axle shafts and hub assem. also narrower? If so What years and makes of truck did they come in?Thanks

High 5 you said the same ting on the post I wrote this info on before and how common are these cab and chassis axles cause I dont think I have ever seen one from Alaska to Idaho.What dually came narrowed and are the axle shafts and hub assem. also narrower? If so What years and makes of truck did they come in?Thanks

well the only cab and chassis dually i have seen were the older early 70's-80's body style. the cab and chassis duallys are the truck that are sold as just that a cab and a chassis. they are used for work trucks that utilize utility beds, wreckers, box vans, flat beds, even motor homes. as i have said just because you are looking at a dually flatbed or any of the others i have listed does not mean it is the narrow version. take a tape measure and check. a way i can identify them is just by looking at the hubs. the narrow version's hubs stick out alot further than the standard version. the axles shafts are the same between the two . i could take a shaft from a single rear wheel 14bolt and it would bolt right into my rearend. the width difference is made up in the wheel hub. the actual wheel mounting surface/ring on the hub is inset more on the cab and chassis dually version. the housings are also a bit different but i havn't personnally had them side by side so i couldn't say what they are. i know another guy running the same rear and he is the one who had the two housings and compared them. as far as how common they are i'm not sure. i see alot of them around here (tx) but the bad thing is i havn't found many in j/yards. i ended up finding one out of a flatbed that a guy was parting out.

I'm pretty sure TPIjeep on this board has a narrowed 14 bolt, and www.wagonermachine.com (http://www.wagonermachine.com) makes custom 14 bolt fronts so i'm thinking a shaft can be either made or made to work.
good luck,
Bob

i looked all around for a good way to narrow a 14 bolt... and then just pulled a dually axle out of a motorhome... 63" perfect...cheap too...
14 bolts axleshafts neck down at the splines. d-70 shafts do too. the spindles on a 14 bolt will never ever be straight again without hours of work by a good shop.....did i mention cheap for the narrow 14 bolt?///

wheelinjp, go to H8mondays post on "need 14bolt info". he show a pic of the one he just got. notice how far the wheel hubs stick out past the wheel mounting surface. the standard 14bolt rear wheel hub only sticks out less than half that far. hope this helps.

well since I already have the standard FF14 bolt and it was FREE <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> I think the added cost of narrowing it will be well worth it.

Especially since I intend to do the axle narrowing myself, and have the shafts made then (since it appears that they narrow down towards the outside. )

The d70 shafts in my shed don't narrow at all!


<IMG width=474 height=656 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/d70_shaft.jpg">

Take a caliper and measure the splines, then measure behind them!! In the pic it looks like it narrows somwhat! If the splines are cut into the shaft after shortening it the shaft will woller in the side gears...Rolled splines may put the splines up to where they are now...Least thats what I see in the pic!!

Look again... the splines are definitely of a larger diameter than the majority of the axle....

<IMG width=474 height=656 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/NO_d70_shaft.jpg">

I added a reference line for easier comparison....

Randii

Soo if we're talking even .003" it could make a difference in weather you can just cut and respline vs. custom shaft.

It still would be easier to just find a dually 14 bolt. No cutting just regear(if needed) and lock.

Some guys are saying to get a narrow dually 14 bolt and that the axles in the narrow ones are the same length as the wide single 14 bolts and it is the hubs and axle tubes that are different.

If the axles are the same length why dont you just cut the tubes and then put your hubs back on and jam your stock length axles back in. The axles will be poking out the ends of the hubs so just machine up a spacer to fill in the gap. If you are only looking for 2 inches narrower axle then the spacer would only be an inch.

This should be cheap to do and if you do manage to break one of those big sucker axles if will still be cheap as there is no custom stuff.

How about this........I've never done but it sounds good................. to narrow it, cut the axle tubes at the differential end so you don't have to mess with getting the spindles back on true........... to shorten the inner axles cut the axle at the outer flange, lathe a hole in the middle of the outer flange, lathe the axle down to the right length and dia to match the hole in the outer flange, install the inner axle and outer flange, spot weld it while installed, pull it all back apart and have a "real" welder weld it back together on a lathe with some magical rod or how about the same thing without the welding........... lathe the cut end of the inner axle down to a consistant dia, spline it and the outer flange to match and c-clip it or I am just <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> dope?

Problem is I think a custom set of axles from moser or dutchman is only 300 bones!

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: MoBlagg ]

I'm pretty sure that Chevy Step Vans use the narower 14 bolt too. I was looking at buying a '79 Chevy 1 ton with a Chevy Step Van rearend. It had duals but it was tubbed and they didn't stick out past the bedsides. Just something else to look for in the boneyards.
Travis

Problem is I think a custom set of axles from moser or dutchman is only 300 bones!

only $300!!! i only paid $150 for a whole cab/chassis dually 14bolt. heck i could buy another hand have spare everything for what just the custom shafts cost not to mention the time and effort put into narrowing the housing.

High5 is right, cab and chassis rears sound like the way to go. We just picked a couple of spares. the difference in width is built into the wheel bearing hub and the brake backing plate placement. Shafts interchange with single wheel housings. How about just putting the hubs from the dually on it? That would work.
check this link for a clearance ground 14FF pic:
ORD page with 14ff shaved pics (http://www.offroaddesign.com/TopTruck.htm)

Originally posted by randii:
<STRONG>Look again... the splines are definitely of a larger diameter than the majority of the axle....

<IMG width=474 height=656 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/NO_d70_shaft.jpg">

I added a reference line for easier comparison....

Randii</STRONG>

Not to be argumentative, but that axle does not "neck down". That is the way rolled splines are. If the splines were cut, they wouldn't stick out of the shaft diameter.

Originally posted by Realsquash:
<STRONG>Not to be argumentative, but that axle does not "neck down". That is the way rolled splines are. If the splines were cut, they wouldn't stick out of the shaft diameter.</STRONG>


So how much does a shop charge to R-ROLL the splines?? And how many shops CAN do that??

I don't know of any.

I'm leaning towards going with the CAB/CHASSIS version If I can find one at a good price.

The only thing about that is that I'll have to swap my detroit locker for the 4th time.....sigh

I e-mailed moser about "rolling" splines and they said they can only do that on new axles...not old ones. <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">

It appears that narrowing a 14 bolt FF is somewhat expensive because new axle shafts have to be made <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0">

Dammit Jim! (best captain kirk voice) <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

A 62" WTW rearend would only be
4" wider than an '82 FJ60 rearend (58" WTW), 4" wider than an IFS toyota pickup rearend (58" WTW),
?" wider than a Scout II rearend.
etc.

In other words, it really isn't that much wider than what you've already got...is it?

Originally posted by Tankota:
<STRONG>I e-mailed moser about "rolling" splines and they said they can only do that on new axles...not old ones. <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">

A 62" WTW rearend would only be

?" wider than a Scout II rearend.
etc.

In other words, it really isn't that much wider than what you've already got...is it?</STRONG>

Scouts are 60" from what I'm told and the rear about 3/4" narrower than that.

I scoped out a local place...only one so far though

A dually cab/chassis FF14 bolt w/4:56's out of an '82 runs
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.......$550.00 <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

The gearing is SWEET, but DAMN!!!! I got my Full size FF14 bolt FREE!!!!

I still haven't gotten prices on custom axles to see which is gonna be cheaper

Plus I still have the option of looking around the Denver/Front Range area.

Besides this is a long term thing for me...It's not like I need it this weekend.
<IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

So, with how far back the drum sits from the WMS on one of these cab/chassis FF's, could a 15" rim be had pretty easily??

It seems like it would to me.

Also what is the spring pad width on one of these?? Center-to-Center

a 15" wheel will fit on any 14bolt rear as far as i know and i run 15"ers and i know others with various style brakes on 14bolts with 15" rims. as for spring perch width i don't remember but i had to move them to fit on my cj. i have "heard" that they are pretty close to the same as a yj's rear though. can't say for sure.

:beer:

the 70 shaft picture only shows the machined couple of inches, the unmachined section is much fatter. guess it depends on how much you are going to shorten whether it would work out.

how would or could half ton brakes be put on? How easily is the bolt pattern changed??? (to 6 lug, and FYI, I cannot get the hub through the center of even a big toy cutout on my rims! Can it be machined down enough?) If smaller brakes or even disk brakes (preferably an affordable method) get put on, does this provide the opportunity for a narrower axleWMS to WMS????????