TexasTeaDrinker sais that montrose is the hardest wheeling in the nation. Is this true?? Thinking about going there for a couple of days in august when our club (bear4x4) takes its trip to moab.

I'm thinkin some of those new AZ trails are pushing the envelope:eek: :eek:

depends on what you mean by wheeling...existing trails?

I have to say from what I've heard and seen AZ, NM, CO, UT all have some tough stuff..

there are prolly more unheard of trails in AZ that are super tough..

CO is cool though.

Moab is as hard as you want - we have 1000 ft verticle cliffs "drive up that" LOL

but none of the household name trails here are very hard

exactly, most places can be as hard as you want them to be...just some can't be easy.

-Steve

nobody has yet to sucessfully make all 7 waterfalls on susprise canyon. just can't be done with out winching. i would have to say that makes it a contender for one of the toughest.

I agree that suprise is one of the coolest. I remember that it was the trail with the winch only waterfalls before those started popping up all over. When we go to Moab this time we are going to run upper proving grounds instead of just looking at it. We werent equipped well enough last time but we will be this time. The only thing about moab that I dont like is that on some of those trails the price you pay for mistakes can be pretty steep (no pun intended). :D

Dropping.......Dropping.......Dropping.......:nuke :

Come to Farmington/Aztec, NM. We'll show you what it's all about.:D

Rapid City, SD.

Talk to anyone who has run CO, AZ, Cali, and NM who have also run the Hills. The shat's just nasty. Sharp granite, deep water, ledges, drop offs, holes, no bypasses on some, and no place to turn around when the feet cool down! And did I mention TIGHT! Clausterphobic comes to mind! Unlike most of the AZ trails (not including the new ones that AZrockcrawler is opening up) there are NO flat spots between obstacles, it's non-stop tweaked out crawlin. The CO boys can't seem to get over how close the canyon walls are to each other, and the Cali boys, well we know how they are!:flipoff2:
I just know that the folks who have run the trails in the Hills, never care to wheel anywhere else ever again. C'mon up!

I would say Las Cruces New Mexico from all the trails I have seen. Montrose was cool but some of the stuff at LC was harder for sure.

I think the two hardest trails I have been on are Panament and upper proving grounds.

Panamint is a great trail! I have only been able to climb 4 of the falls but the trail has been closed for awhile and I really think some of the sub 3,000 Lb rock rails we have been building are getting to the point where they may be able to drive all 7 falls in the same trip. Not crawling up, hitting the throttle and racing up.

Even though Panamint is a winch required trail it is possable to take a larger rig through without any body damage. Upper proving grounds has only one winch required climb but the trail is so narrow and off camber that any full bodied rig (including sammys) will get body damage going up unless they have a full exo cage.

I enjoyed Panamint more, but I think Upper Proving grounds is harder.

Looking forward to some of the newer AZ trails, looks like some great rides!

Upper Proving Grounds...

Man, all you guys are:rainbow: !!!

If you've never been to flat creek, you don't know JACK!

Poteau OK

get's alot of people's vote in this neck of the woods

Originally posted by elf_cruiser
Man, all you guys are:rainbow: !!!

If you've never been to flat creek, you don't know JACK!


I know Jack, I have wheeled Jack!

Now show me pics of Flat Creek!

Originally posted by Chris Geiger



I know Jack, I have wheeled Jack!

Now show me pics of Flat Creek! I met "Jack", I got Hammered. I need to avenge myself on Jack :D:D:D:D.

i think 3-4 years ago, montrose was the hardest in the nation. not so anymore. i found the hardest stuff in colorado to be pretty damn hard, but the AZ pics look harder, and SD wheelin is just sweet, cant wait to get back there soon--brad

South Dakota definetly. Jim Van da Ven (sp?) a used to be local wheeler in SD made his first trip to Moab and ran everything including Upper and Lower Hellderado and said it was fairly easy. Nothing compared to the hills. He even downsized to 35's for the trip, normaly runs 38's.

I think you are a fool if you think any one region or location has a monopoly on the "hardest" wheeling, let alone if you can get a sizable group of enthusiasts to agree on the definition is what exactly the "hardest wheeling" *IS* :p

Originally posted by DRM
I think you are a fool if you think any one region or location has a monopoly on the "hardest" wheeling, let alone if you can get a sizable group of enthusiasts to agree on the definition is what exactly the "hardest wheeling" *IS* :p

DITTO!!!

Well since we have the "monopoly" on the hardest wheeling in SD, you Fawks better being paying everytime you come up!! :flipoff2: :flipoff2:
















Yeah ok so everyone has good wheeling.:rasta:

Originally posted by DRM
I think you are a fool if you think any one region or location has a monopoly on the "hardest" wheeling, let alone if you can get a sizable group of enthusiasts to agree on the definition is what exactly the "hardest wheeling" *IS* :p

You just had to go and take all the fun outta it, didn't you?:flipoff2:

But I do agree, KINDA. The AZ stuff looks really tuff. But if ya through a buncha mud/sand into it, it'd be twice as hard. If you have an AZ rig like JackA, then the AZ trails won't be too hard, but the Missouri mud and ruts hills would be a show stopper.
But that's just what I think.
I want to see pics to go with these claims, though. Especially SD stuff. Sounds good.

I know Jack, I have wheeled Jack!

Here is a pic of Flat Creek!

http://www3.baylor.edu/~Wes_Hanson/cruisercreek3.JPG

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! This is how we do it, Waco style!!!

Originally posted by Weasel
He even downsized to 35's for the trip, normaly runs 38's.

Not true, I ran with Jim up Pritchett's Canyon and he was running 38's.

I think Tellico has the hardest wheeling in the nation


































not:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Im4yotas


You just had to go and take all the fun outta it, didn't you?:flipoff2:

lol :p

I always think the hardest is anything I haven't done, and that I have to crane my neck to even see! :p

POZO IS THE MOST HARDCORE PLACE THAT EXISTS.
CALIFORNIAS BEST KEPT SECRET!

I don't know if Montrose is the toughest but I've been to most places in the west and its one of my favorites. Killer world class trails ten minutes from town, the town is a classic mid-sized town with everything you might need including great mexican food and cheap motels. There are also lots of other cool things to do in the area when (god forbid) you arent wheeling....not to mention nice people just about everywhere I went. It would be a great choice for a vacation...I know I can't wait to go back!

Originally posted by Im4yotas
You just had to go and take all the fun outta it, didn't you?:flipoff2:

But I do agree, KINDA. The AZ stuff looks really tuff. But if ya through a buncha mud/sand into it, it'd be twice as hard. If you have an AZ rig like JackA, then the AZ trails won't be too hard, but the Missouri mud and ruts hills would be a show stopper.
But that's just what I think.
I want to see pics to go with these claims, though. Especially SD stuff. Sounds good.
Here's a Black Hills, SD. I need to get out there and check it out!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! This is how we do it, Waco style!!! i'm sorry you only have those small rocks to play on:(

am i supposed to be impressed because your overly wide FJ40 on unclearanced rockwells and 35" boggers can do a trail that a sammi on 31s could do? the sammi has more ground clearance, anyway :rolleyes:

Originally posted by elf_cruiser

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! This is how we do it, Waco style!!!

Ok, you have me interested because I'm just about 1.5 hours north (max) from Waco. That pictures looks like any river or creek, but I'm in no place to bash it.

I'd love to learn more about the wheeling you guys do in Waco. In fact, my wife's grandfather lives down there, so I'm good for a weekend.

Typical Farmington area fun:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62413

Originally posted by wngrog


Not true, I ran with Jim up Pritchett's Canyon and he was running 38's.


In Moab?? You sure, cause he told me he had borrowed some 35's for reduced CG. Unless he switched while down there?? Oh well.

Originally posted by 9-Volt
am i supposed to be impressed because your overly wide FJ40 on unclearanced rockwells and 35" boggers can do a trail that a sammi on 31s could do? the sammi has more ground clearance, anyway :rolleyes:
i agree, and that pic just shows your axles, cant even tell what the place is like.......

am i supposed to be impressed because your overly wide FJ40 on unclearanced rockwells and 35" boggers can do a trail that a sammi on 31s could do? the sammi has more ground clearance, anyway



i agree, and that pic just shows your axles, cant even tell what the place is like.......


Guys, it's supposed to be a joke. Jeeper111 lives in Waco, and that is our crappy local trail. I am certainly not trying to impress anyone, just make a really bad inside joke, sorry you took me seriously. BTW - i have 40" TSL's now...

Lance Morin - Send Jeeper111 or Swamper502 a PM, and they can maybe arrange to show you around. I am moving to phoenix on Thursday. The trail is not all that, but it is worth a 1.5hr drive. you can spend a good 3-4 hours there messing around, so you will have wheeled enough to make up for the drive. Thanks for the interest.

Trails are as hard as you make it. Wheelbase, ground clearance, and weight all contribute to how difficult a trail is.

You want a real hard trail? Try Rock Crawling events, built to test everything about you and your vehicle. It is one thing when you can pick your own line, another when you have Bob pick it out for you. :D :D :D


Rich

Originally posted by Big Rich
You want a real hard trail? Try Rock Crawling events, built to test everything about you and your vehicle. It is one thing when you can pick your own line, another when you have Bob pick it out for you. :D :D :D


Rich

I agree... when we laid out the course for our little competition, it was amazing how you can take what would normally be a pretty tame rock creek bed, and with some strategic flag placement that same section is NUTS! :eek:

Damn, can't belive I got dragged into this...

From my experience... limited... I would have said Die trying is by far the hardest most grueling trail I've seen... No need for flags...the whole thing is laid out on an uphill climb in a mean ass mountainous terrain. I suffered, along with the rest of my group, ALOT more breakage than usual while playing on that trail.

I have wheeled Cruces extensively, Moab on a more recreational bent, Framington both in fun and in competition, and several other venues...

I was just making a passing comment based on limited experience to jeeper111... I have also heard the same from people who have wheel MUCH more than me...

I have only done most of the AZ 5+ stuff, most of JV and little of Moab.
A trail called "Twisted" in AZ is pretty brutal, the first trail I ever had to back out of. It is extremely hard on sheet metal, and is totally unforgiving. Insane angles all the way. totally nuts.

Its too bad they closed Asylum for good, that would have to rate
near the top. The trail is both mentally and physically exhausting,
ultra-challenging and downright scary at times.
If you like what you have seen in AZ, You ain't seen nothin' yet.............
A new AZ trail is being broken that is, well,, you'll see.(My new favorite)

Originally posted by WideJ
POZO IS THE MOST HARDCORE PLACE THAT EXISTS.
CALIFORNIAS BEST KEPT SECRET!


dude set down the crack pipe. i have been wheeling and riding pozo all my life and it is far from hardcore. it is almost all fire roads. and if you actually think the steps are hardcore you really need to get out more often. while they are a slightly challenging obstacal they are not even on the scale of hard core.

If you want to get an Idea of what wheelin in the BH of SD is all about check out
www.midwestcrawler.com
Look under black hills wheelin may , june and July pics sections

Montrose will ruin a lot of other wheelin spots for ya, after you have wheeled there. Moab is tons of fun, but I haven't been on anything too tough, yet...but that is my own fault.
SD sucks:flipoff2: I would never go there:rolleyes: It's all flat lands:D

Add some snow and lots of trails become tough.

I can't say one place is 'harder' than any other, each one seems to offer something unique.

My personal impressions (from W to E):

Table Mesa, AZ - Brutal! Bolder fields that never end.
Moab, UT - Great pucker factor, wide variety of trails.
Montrose, CO - Tough, tight and technical.
Disney, OK - Axle breaking traction, nice variety.
Poteau, OK - Treacherous. Can be totally dangerous when wet.
Attica, IN - Controlled environment. Nice for large organized runs. (They are supposed to have new 'harder' trail).

Give me the opportunity to return to any of these places, and I'm there. :D

Never been West of Memphis so I can't speak for anything but the South East. I would have to say Rattlerock at Windrock followed by Creek Bed 5 at Monteagle and Bugger Hill in Jasper TN after a hard rain. Tellico has it's spots but they are all just small sections. I have been to West Virginia many times but never wheeled there it looks like it could be hiding some killer trails on some of those old strip mined mountains.

We did Independence last week. It was a very technical, tough and fun trail.

Originally posted by camo



dude set down the crack pipe. i have been wheeling and riding pozo all my life and it is far from hardcore. it is almost all fire roads. and if you actually think the steps are hardcore you really need to get out more often. while they are a slightly challenging obstacal they are not even on the scale of hard core.

I agree, two weeks ago a bud of mine took his basically stock ifs tacoma on 32" tires up the steps. Pozo is ifs-core. :rasta:

Trails on the East Coast change so much from month to month its hard to say what is the hardest.

Out West most of the rocks are planted fairly well, while here theres Hybrids with 58" tractor tires hitting redline on there sprayed 502 knocking the loose muddy rocks everywhere.

Ive been to Gardendale, Alabama; Mont Eagle, Tennessee; and Tellico NC; All have there different aspects that make them hard, different kind of rock, different type of mud, and and all out different style of wheeling.

Im sure the West is the same way.

Are state laws as strict everywhere else as they are in California? I mean...........can you just pick a trail and drive it in the midwest or east. Or is Califronia far ahead of the pack in conservation? Curious.

From what I have heard, I think Michigan has the worst laws about 4-wheelin'. Basically, if you can't drive a car where you are, you are probably breaking the law. This applies to 99.9% of the land in the state. So if you are in California, consider yourself lucky.

Originally posted by scwafish
I don't know if Montrose is the toughest but I've been to most places in the west and its one of my favorites. Killer world class trails ten minutes from town, the town is a classic mid-sized town with everything you might need including great mexican food and cheap motels. There are also lots of other cool things to do in the area when (god forbid) you arent wheeling....not to mention nice people just about everywhere I went. It would be a great choice for a vacation...I know I can't wait to go back! i went to the montrose area last august,bowhunting and camping in the national forest just out of town.i like it so much that we are going back sept 12,and i am taking my toyota this time...

Originally posted by Hobsdaddy
while here theres Hybrids with 58" tractor tires hitting redline on there sprayed 502 knocking the loose muddy rocks everywhere.


:eek: :eek: PICS!!!:eek: :eek:

AZ. Asylum is actually a killer trail, waterfall isn't really bad. Exit road is in a class by itself. I'd winch down facing forwards off the big waterfall before doing that exit "road" again.
Twisted is one motherfucker. It is so tight that you will have no sheetmetal left at the end. And this is from guys with total disreagard for sheetmetal. To get an exo caged Toy through get ready to winch past 90 degree angles to the top of your rear cage and use a highlift to push off the walls. Do this in about ten spots. I painted my exo cage the night before this run, the first time I'd touched it up since building it. It had been through most AZ and Hammer trails, and it looked worse than it ever did. Not a single tube that wasn't gouged.
Moab is different, lost of steep fall to death kind of shit that I'm not too fond of. Still would like to do Proving Grounds though. Would also love to be able to do Suprise. That would be my first choice for a roadtrip trail.

having been to Moab and a few other tough spots around the US........ I still think as far as trails go that Mt Garibaldi ( Morningside) has to rank up there...... on some of those sections if you took a line and miscalculated anything you could be in for a serious multiple roll ie :tumbling down the mountainside potentially TYD....... that being said it's not in the US.....and you guy's don't like moss on your rocks
;) ;)

and you guy's don't like moss on your rocks

I have tried that mossy stuff up in B.C. You need a heavy foot and a lot of luck. :eek:

Well gosh folks, wonder why Farmington has had more pro crawling events than anywhere else.:rasta:
CASE CLOSED :p

Originally posted by landuseorc
Well gosh folks, wonder why Farmington has had more pro crawling events than anywhere else.:rasta:
CASE CLOSED :p

After competing in Farmington I still think upper proving grounds is harder. Farmington is a great place for events cause it's easy for people to come and see with great access. Upper Proving grounds is so narrow and tight that spectators would have difficulty getting up and down the trail and only a few people could watch. Simply not room for the hundreds of people that show up for event. Also a lot of rigs would not be able to even make it through, halting the run till the broken rigs were extracted.

Originally posted by jp junkie


I have tried that mossy stuff up in B.C. You need a heavy foot and a lot of luck. :eek:

Yeah up here we call that 'driving ability,' not luck. :flipoff2:

Yeah up here we call that 'driving ability,' not luck

(in a sneezing tone) Bullshit!!! I watched your boys practically close their eyes and hit the throttle. :rolleyes: Slimy rocks are pretty unpredictable.;)

(in a sneezing tone) Bullshit!!! I watched your boys practically close their eyes and hit the throttle. Slimy rocks are pretty unpredictable.

Ridin the wet rock is a skill.

You gotta know which way your ass end is going to slide and when to hit the rev limiter.

Any wheeling is unpredictable at times, if it wasnt there would be no such thing as roll-overs.

Originally posted by Hobsdaddy


Ridin the wet rock is a skill.

You gotta know which way your ass end is going to slide and when to hit the rev limiter.

Any wheeling is unpredictable at times, if it wasnt there would be no such thing as roll-overs.
I've gotta disagree with you on that one. Unpredictability is not the only reason there are rollovers. I've rolled my rig on purpose. It was very predictable that if I drove where I wanted to, I was going to roll over. I did it anyway, and rolled over... I'm sure many more on this board have done the same.:flipoff2:

Originally posted by ROKWALKER
Are state laws as strict everywhere else as they are in California? I mean...........can you just pick a trail and drive it in the midwest or east. Or is Califronia far ahead of the pack in conservation? Curious.

In NH, ALL of our public lands are closed to any rig over 1000#s. Private land can be wheeled but you will get arrested for trespassing and your rig impounded if you do not have WRITTEN permission from the land owner WITH you.
Some of our area associations of clubs are makeing some headway with the legislature but it is slow going.
We are left with "Class VI" roads which are town un-maintained/un-improved roads. Some of which are pretty fun.

I consider most states luckier than us in NH. An online club out here has started to take the next step and a bunch of us are going to invest $1k each to purchase a parcel of land for the expressed purpose of cutting trails and having legal wheeling:

NEOW Land Purchase Effort (http://www.northeastonlinewheelers.org/NLP.html)

As far as toughest trails...we had a few good ones but they were taken from us and closed.

I will agree that if you add a little mud before the granite it makes life a bit rougher.

I've gotta disagree with you on that one. Unpredictability is not the only reason there are rollovers. I've rolled my rig on purpose.

Wow you are cool cause you roll your rig on purpose.

Im talking about the wheeling aspect of it...if you rolled your rig down here on purpose and blocked the trail which you would...you would get your ass kicked.

if you rolled your rig down here on purpose and blocked the trail which you would...you would get your ass kicked.

Is the cause of the roll over investigated? Or do they kick your ass first and ask questions later?:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Is the cause of the roll over investigated?

yes :flipoff2:


Or do they kick your ass first and ask questions later?

yes :flipoff2:

Cool:smokin: