how difficult would it be to use a 4.6 out of a newer F150, mustang, etc in an older rig with a C4 auto?

what about a newer 5.4?

how does the EFI system work, is there a separate computer for the engine and one for the trans, or should i look for a motor from a truck with a manual trans?

if i could score a 5.4 and ZF 6 spd from a 250/350, how hard of a time would i have getting the trans to bolt to a 203 or a 205?

wheelbase is not a concern as i will be running in upwards of 110".

thanks guys :beer:

its not a ZF six speed its a Allison, and I have heard of
a jeep (not sure) in a four wheeling mag using a 4.6, that
shows it can be done. It was either Peterson's or
Four Wheeler. Okay you have something like OBD-II,
the "brain", ignition control (think the new ones are distributorless), and you have the wiring to worry about.
I dont really think the 5.4 came with the six speed, correct me if Im wrong
I would prefer to go with a 302, it is
really the smallest V-8 in dimensions, dont ask me who quoted this. Otherwise the 351 if you can. However I woulnt bother to hook up a Mazda 5 spd.
they are crap anyway.
just my advice

sorry I cant edit. Im not sure about the 5.4 part, its
possible you could get it to work with a 205/203 doubler.
Im guessing

It is a ZF 6sp, not allison. And you can't get one behind a 5.4, only the PSD. But if you've crawled under a superduty and looked at the 6 speed you'd change you mind anyway....there huge and heavy.

The Triton motors also don't use the same bellhousing pattern as the 302/351....so to bolt a 4.6 or 5.4 to a C-4 would need some kind of adapter. Not sure if you'd need one for the t-case as well.

I was reading an article a while back about a guy doing a Pantera restoration. The car originally came with a 351C and a ZF 5-spd. He stuck a Cobra 32V 4.6L in there with the original ZF trans. I don't remember the details, but he was running a custom computer. I know they described the tranny mods as "minor"... but I'm not sure exactly what was involved -- if he just redrilled mounting holes or what.

But there are apparently Pantera shops that specialize in it.

Pantera Article (http://home.earthlink.net/~rlbpantera/catpix3/RichardStory2.pdf)

And yeah, the 4.6L and 5.4L are much larger than the 302/351 motors.

my question would be why? The 4.6 is bigger and heavyier than a 460(I've read that somplace) the 460 can be stroked to a 572 and run injection (i think) that's more power than you would ever want and you should be able to get a ZF5 speed to it.

For '02 model year V10's came with a 6spd, and for 5.4's a 6spd is an option. The ratios for gasser 6spds are a little different then PSD 6spds.

JP

In the Ford Motorsport Catalog, they feature
a Mustang Cobra 6 speed manual

Originally posted by BroncoNut
In the Ford Motorsport Catalog, they feature
a Mustang Cobra 6 speed manual

Witch is nothing like the ZF 6 spd used in the pickups :rolleyes: It's the same one used in the camaro and vette'

Originally posted by strong_like_tractor
For '02 model year V10's came with a 6spd, and for 5.4's a 6spd is an option. The ratios for gasser 6spds are a little different then PSD 6spds.

JP



hmmmm....is it new for 02'?? We have a few here at work and all the gassers are 5 spds. Didn't think you could get the 6 spd in anything but the PSD

Originally posted by 9-Volt
how difficult would it be to use a 4.6 out of a newer F150, mustang, etc in an older rig with a C4 auto?

what about a newer 5.4?

how does the EFI system work, is there a separate computer for the engine and one for the trans, or should i look for a motor from a truck with a manual trans?

if i could score a 5.4 and ZF 6 spd from a 250/350, how hard of a time would i have getting the trans to bolt to a 203 or a 205?

wheelbase is not a concern as i will be running in upwards of 110".

thanks guys :beer:


Like FordPowr said, you can't put a C4 behind a Triton engine without an adapter. 4.6L's would have come with a 4R70W (also possibly E4OD) which is a 4spd auto. There is no reason not to use the 4R70W in fact the 4wd version would has the same 31 spline, 6 bolt output shaft and tail housing so you would have as much choice of transfer cases as with older transmissions.

Originally posted by FordPowr




hmmmm....is it new for 02'?? We have a few here at work and all the gassers are 5 spds. Didn't think you could get the 6 spd in anything but the PSD

Yes it is new for 02. Before 02 the gassers used the 5 speed. For 02 they put the 6 speed in all the engines in the Super Dutys.

Stephen

how difficult would it be to use a 4.6 out of a newer F150, mustang, etc in an older rig with a C4 auto?

what about a newer 5.4?

how does the EFI system work, is there a separate computer for the engine and one for the trans, or should i look for a motor from a truck with a manual trans?


I think it would be more trouble than it's worth. I've rebuilt many 4.6's that were blown up from the addition of a blower, or nitrous, etc. The 4.6L engine is physically taller and wider than a 460 or 454. It's shorter than a 460 lengthwise though. They are a pain to work on, they have many crappy design features which I would run away from. The 5.4L is even taller and wider than the 4.6L. You will virtually no header clearance.

IF you did do this, you would want adapt it with a fuel injection wiring harness and computer from a 96-97 Mustang GT. The 98 Mustangs had some different EEC tuning parameters you would want to stay away from just for simplicity. The 1999-present Mustangs all use a returnless fuel system which you would be wise to avoid. The 96-97 Cobra wiring harnesses and computers are different than the GT's, and would add complexity wih repect to having to tune the IMRC's. I say use the Mustang wiring harness and computer, because they are the most easily modified and tuned by the aftermrket software which is available. The Cobra wiring harness cannot be used with a GT computer, and vise versa.

You can get adapters to put a C4 on a mod motor from many sources. Look around in the Mustang and/or drag race magazines and you will find them. Places like P/A Performance, JW Transmission, etc.

Other than the 4R70W, you can also get a 4R100 behind a mod motor. The 4R70W is ated to 700 ft-lbs torque (hence the "70") while the 4R100 is rated to 1000 ft lbs (hence the "100"). I have no idea what vehicles you would find a 4R100 in, but I imagine they are large trucks with tow packages. The 4R70W is leaps and bounds stronger than the C4, AOD, and AODE. The 4R70W also has a relatively low first gear in comparison to other automatic trannys.

If engine's physical size isn't the total killer, then PATS probably will be. The EEC5 computer has a theft deterrant which works as a secondary system. The PATS (passive anti theft system) uses a reciever in the steering column that picks up radio transmissions from the ignition key. If the key sends the correct signal, then PATS lets the EEC5 start the engine. If the correct signal is not recieved, the EEC5 won't fire the engine. These are two different systems, and if you mix and match them from different cars, there's no gaurantee they will work together. You could have a Ford dealer reprogram everything to amke it all work, but thats a pain, and it's expensive.

My advice: 5.0L, 1989-1993 Mustang wiring harness, and an A9L computer. Good gas mileage, easy to work on, light weight simple engine, relatively inexpensive.