Has there ever been talk of a fee system to use the trail? Money that could go toward maintainence or enforcement so that there isn't more damage done to the trail.

I assume starting and maintaining a program like this would cost a lot of money but with the projected number of people that will/do use the trail it seems a lot of money could be raised.

Here in Oregon you need to have an OHV (Off Highway Vehicle) pass to go offroad in a state forest that is good for two years at a cost of $10.50 per automobile.

Does California have a similar system like this or do you think one could come up with a Rubicon specific program. Either an annual or daily use fee?

A lot of yahoos tearing the place up will be less likely to do so if they have pay to use the trail or have a licensed tag that can be reported. IMO

CA OHV Green sticker funds do go towards the Rubicon.

Fee Demo is another issue. Haven't heard anything about them trying to institute that.

Crowdog

i know to get into most OHV parks you have to pay like 4 bux for a day and 6 for camping. i would think a season pass thing would work good for the con. im sure the true wheelers would pay to keep the thing open especially if the profits went towards maintenance and stuff.

Originally posted by Brad
i know to get into most OHV parks you have to pay like 4 bux for a day and 6 for camping. i would think a season pass thing would work good for the con. im sure the true wheelers would pay to keep the thing open especially if the profits went towards maintenance and stuff.

I would buy a season pass to keep the Con open but I dont want the money going towards maintenance. It has been proven time and again that we can all ban together and repair the trail.
I would like to see that money go towards eductaing and reporting/prosecuting (if needed) people that damage the trail.

Originally posted by The Rockslut


I would buy a season pass to keep the Con open but I dont want the money going towards maintenance. It has been proven time and again that we can all ban together and repair the trail.
I would like to see that money go towards eductaing and reporting/prosecuting (if needed) people that damage the trail.

Ditto!

Originally posted by The Rockslut


I would buy a season pass to keep the Con open but I dont want the money going towards maintenance. It has been proven time and again that we can all ban together and repair the trail.
I would like to see that money go towards eductaing and reporting/prosecuting (if needed) people that damage the trail.

Another thought would be for signs. Good signs. Might help keep the "didn't knows" on course.

I think that signs are a great idea. I just dont want money raised to be thrown at repairing things when it should go to eliminating the problem all together. I dont care if there is a monthly trail repair on the Con. I will be there and I am positive there would be at least 30 others right behind me. I can drag dead trees and rocks into new bypasses all day long but we need to stop the occurance of these bypasses in the first place. I vote for education and bringing these offenders to the public eye. Signs would greatly help as would a previously discussed kiosk.

Signs sound like a great Idea. Without the signs, people that dont know that they are doing somthing wrong will let em before it happens. Sounds good to me.

Steve

Could also be used for out house funding.

Signs ARE a good idea and should be posted anyway - they are on all the other major trails in the Sierra. But I don't think making people pay to use the trails so we can put up signs is a good idea. Seems that those that have paid are already aware.

I'd like to see more enforcement, and I like the idea of funding outhouse materials and manpower.

But really... is this something everyone thinks FOTR should back? Paid use of federal lands?

Personally, I support a yearly permit.

Paul

I dont know to much how all this works but If we pay a fee to use the con. Would that beable to help get more leagl inforcement? I'm totally willing to pay if I have to if it will help out. I am sure we can use anymoney rasied in a great way. Outhouse's would be a great investment as discused earler. I would like to do anything i posibly can to help. we just need to make sure its the best way and wont bring up other problems.

Steve

Originally posted by nasvik
.

I like the idea of funding outhouse materials and manpower.

Paul

Dumpsters near Loon Lake dam that people could actually dump trail trash and not get in trouble for it would be nice. I thought I read once that they don't want this trash in the dumpsters at the campgrounds.

Originally posted by TDW


Dumpsters near Loon Lake dam that people could actually dump trail trash and not get in trouble for it would be nice. I thought I read once that they don't want this trash in the dumpsters at the campgrounds.

That makes no sence to me. :confused: Why wouldent they let you?

Originally posted by The Rockslut


I would buy a season pass to keep the Con open but I dont want the money going towards maintenance. It has been proven time and again that we can all ban together and repair the trail.
I would like to see that money go towards eductaing and reporting/prosecuting (if needed) people that damage the trail.

i was using maintanence as an example to show it wouldnt just go to something else besides benifiting the trail. signs would help some people stay where they are supposed to but no matter what, some people are just stupid and do whatever they please. so enforcment of the rules gets my vote also, same with the outhouse stuff as well. anything to keep the trail open for a long time to come is cool with me.

Originally posted by Binderfan2002


That makes no sence to me. :confused: Why wouldent they let you?

I thought I heard they only want the trash from the campgrounds and not the trail, I could be wrong though.

Originally posted by TDW


I thought I heard they only want the trash from the campgrounds and not the trail, I could be wrong though.

I pulled up in front of two rangers weekend before last and emptied my bag of trash (with a bunch of trail trash also) into the dumpster. Both rangers just smiled and said hi.

Originally posted by TDW


I thought I heard they only want the trash from the campgrounds and not the trail, I could be wrong though.

There are two dumpsters placed at the begining of the dam that can be used. They have had them there for a while. No problem using them :)

Originally posted by TDW


... I could be wrong though.

:D

Originally posted by The Rockslut


I pulled up in front of two rangers weekend before last and emptied my bag of trash (with a bunch of trail trash also) into the dumpster. Both rangers just smiled and said hi.

Thats the way it should be. :)

Read my lips NO NEW TAXES this is not private property if it was I would have no problem paying the owner to use it but I already pay the owners to use the Con in taxes you people are thinking like Californian's thats why we pay so much already lets get on the people we voted for and tell them we demand some Law out on the Con to keep people straight we need to fight, as for that matter get out and VOTE if we didn't have that Boxer and Fienbitch in office we would be having quite as many problems. I'm just afraid a user fee will, like everything else in CA, get used for everything but what it's for, how much of that green sticker fee do you really think makes it to its intended target?
Sorry fellas I just got myself worked up.
I need a :beer: that will calm my nerves.

Originally posted by pontiota

Sorry fellas I just got myself worked up.
I need a :beer: that will calm my nerves.

That is what this place is for.

Good points.

Originally posted by pontiota
I'm just afraid a user fee will, like everything else in CA, get used for everything but what it's for, how much of that green sticker fee do you really think makes it to its intended target?


Agreed with the "fear". But... Many states have user permits for various uses. Cross country ski trails, mountan bike, hunting, wood cutting, etc are examples of those fees in place. Getting the funds to the right place isn't impossible.

Paul

This is a very important and sensitive discussion. User fees are a big deal all over the nation. Fee Demo is a program being tested in many places. Yes, there's always that old feeling about double taxation; and what are the land managers doing with all the budget they already get?

Well, this thread will give me some important data to pass along to fed and county officials as we plan the future of the Rubicon.
Don't take this lightly.

I've always said I'm not in favor of more restrictions and user permits for the 'con. But there are those who say it's inevitable.
Del

As I sit here drinking a :beer: , I come to the realization that after they pay 2-4 people per side to collect $ seven days a week, 52 weeks a year, how much $ do U end up with? And then there are the other expenses for these people to be there.

holy shit , welcome to the socialist republic of california!!!! i can't believe the absolute shit i just read..... what happenned to the people i grew up wheeling with? the rubicon trail is a place that i feel i am blessed to be able to travel whenever i please. the difference between me and rest of you sorry F@#$&'s is that i was taught to respect what i've been given in the opportunity to go there!!!! if half of you yahoo so-called wheelers would check each other up and CLEAN UP YOUR SHIT AND RESPECT THE TRAIL AND OTHER WHEELERS , we wouldn't have the C.H.P. AND THE FOREST SERVICE have to babysit clowns who have no business being there in the first place. it is up to those of is whom don't have our heads up our asses to keep things right...........
As for the thieving pieces of shit who decided to f@^& up this weekend at spider lake , try that shit with my friends , and you won't get off with a verbal warning , you'll be fawked!!! as for the rest of my granite junkie brothers , git it awn!!!

Well, Rocksamy I'm glad to see you're passionate about this topic. If we didn't have yo-yo's, we wouldn't have a problem, that's for sure. But we do have em. And we need to control em or get em off the trail. Otherwise, we will be in jeopardy of losing our access. It's all about image (and resource damage).

The other thing we face is that the more people who use the trail, the more we face the inevitable more rules part of life. I'm hoping the Rubicon will always be the trail most of us remember from the old days. But it will take all of us working together to keep it that way.
Del

I'm the LAST person you will have in favor of mandatory fees.

I personally do not like fees, but I donate voluntary to many causes (both monetarily and with physical support) where and when I can. I will NOT support and sort of Mandatory fee program. This is a county road we are talking about, so the county/FS/and all the volunteers should be able to come up with enough VOLUNTARY support or whatever needs to be done. People will help when asked to help...people will break the rules when things are forced upon them....

Also I feel that a fee program on this particular trail will lock out people on fixed incomes, such as the disabled and retired.... This trail is NOT about "wheelin' and enjoying Nature at it's finest for only those who can afford it".....

I would be in favor of some sort of local plan with the Eldo County Sherriff and the County whereas some sort of percentage of the moneies collected for fines occuring on the trail, is given back to the public in the form of educational materials - books, pamplets, TV commercials, airplanes with banners..whatever....let those that are Fawking it up be forced to pay to help fix it, then let everyone else continue to volunteer like we have been....


:usa:

Peter, you make some good points. I do understand. I am meeting with the eldo Sheriff soon to talk about these things. But I sure won't promise anything related to the court system (fines) getting back to our trail. I have little faith in the judicial system to do something that would make this much SENSE. :)

Del

Originally posted by Jeepndel
I have little faith in the judicial system to do something that would make this much SENSE. :)

Del


Agreed Del, It was a thought, kinda like a user fee that is collected gets returned to the area it's collected in.... maybe some sort of totally new program where if we turn in a violator on the Con, we get some of the money if the "conviction" sticks...kinda likea reward so to speak...

I know first hand how the system is set up to fawk the little guy....I had to file BK because of it....



:usa:

Sorry to not sugar coat my feelings about all of this , but the one time this year i've camped at spider instead of going to buck , I was ashamed of the gross stupidity and lack of concern I saw.
...hope things change soon , çause we can't fight the eco-nazi's when we ourselves are arming them!

Originally posted by Roksamy
Sorry to not sugar coat my feelings about all of this , but the one time this year i've camped at spider instead of going to buck , I was ashamed of the gross stupidity and lack of concern I saw.
...hope things change soon , çause we can't fight the eco-nazi's when we ourselves are arming them!

I agree completely. The problem right now is that there are too many stupid people out there. Not ignorant, just stupid. I believe ignorant people are able to learn things but just haven't yet. Stupid people are beyond learning.

Most trail misuse is done by stupid people who, #1 are too stupid to realize they are doing stupid shit, #2 do stupid shit and don't care until they get caught (then try to pass themselves off as ignorant) or #3 a combination of both.

The sad thing for an old guy like me is that there's a reason these folks behave like they do. And we don't know the reason. Oh sure, it has to do with society, work, stress, bad relationships, poor upbringing, no money, unhappiness, etc. etc. etc. But what motivates them to take it out on our trail.??? And risk closure or severe restrictions?

Well, that's a bit heavy to dwell on this early in the morning. But I hope someone turns the light on for me some day, and I can understand what's behind some of this stu-pitomy (a new word -- the epitomy of stupid). This word was invented by the President of the BlueRibbon Coalition, Mr. Jack Welch. I like it.

Del

Originally posted by TDW


I agree completely. The problem right now is that there are too many stupid people out there. Not ignorant, just stupid. I believe ignorant people are able to learn things but just haven't yet. Stupid people are beyond learning.

Most trail misuse is done by stupid people who, #1 are too stupid to realize they are doing stupid shit, #2 do stupid shit and don't care until they get caught (then try to pass themselves off as ignorant) or #3 a combination of both.

The big problem is these **sses that have MORE MONEY THAN BRAINS. They go out and build a big rig, bring in beer, park in the middle of the Old sluice to wait for "70 rigs behind them, better lookout" Some even need to look :cool: so they have their friends ride in the rig through little sluice driving all over the damn place, throwing out beer cans and cigarettes. What motivates them Del is they are so self centered and emotionally hadicapped they do not even realise the damage being done. Any attempt to enlighten them is an affront to their ego. They can not be seen as not Cool in front of their friends. You do not have to go to Little Sluice to observe these people, the problem is 4 wheelers used to be mostly (for me) people that wanted to commune with nature. Now it is how cool can you look in your rig someone else built. We (the rest of us) need to stand our ground and keep educating the rich, stupid fawkers.

Rant off, Scott

Scott, there are plenty of poor, stupid people, too. Actually, based on what I see on the trails -- there are MORE of them. Deomgraphics across the main populace support that.

The problem is STUPID people. Or folks entirely tied to ego, as you suggested. Race, income, gender, etc. are all side issues...

Stupidity and inconsideration are the main problems.

Dragging anything else into it whittles away at our base of support -- we need the rich foks for their contributions and the poor folks for their time and mass numbers. We're all in it together... and when losers trash the trail, they are being inconsiderate to all of us.

Randii

okay now this isnt mother russia the biggest jackass in the world has all the right to use the same trail as the best wheeler, more fees and regulations is not the answer because that money never goes to where it is supposed to and suddenly our trails turn into businesses i am all for educating the masses about tread lightly but how many times do you pay for stuff and it is supposed to fix something but the only thing that changes is the cost of the fees year after year, signs are a great idea but getting the feds to pay for it wont happen but getting them to let the people pay and post signs is a more feesable, i am stationed over sea's to keep help keep america free not keep america fee's keep the government out of it next thing you know there will bitchin cruiser taxes and a flatfender sur charge because there is money to be made

Originally posted by TDW
Has there ever been talk of a fee system to use the trail? Money that could go toward maintainence or enforcement so that there isn't more damage done to the trail.

I assume starting and maintaining a program like this would cost a lot of money but with the projected number of people that will/do use the trail it seems a lot of money could be raised.

Here in Oregon you need to have an OHV (Off Highway Vehicle) pass to go offroad in a state forest that is good for two years at a cost of $10.50 per automobile.

Does California have a similar system like this or do you think one could come up with a Rubicon specific program. Either an annual or daily use fee?

A lot of yahoos tearing the place up will be less likely to do so if they have pay to use the trail or have a licensed tag that can be reported. IMO

A Rubicon fee system could have legal implications that might adversely impact non-CA residents if it is administered at the state level.

As I understand the CA green sticker program, it is for OHV's for which no highway fees are paid, I.E., no CA license plates. Also, I am told that the green sticker fees are plunked back into the CA OHV trail program. A good idea . . . so far.

So now, I decide to run the 'Con from the west end and I go thru the bug station at Meyers. The ever vigilant cantaloupe police just happen to notice I'm driving my Jeep which just happens to be piled high with camping gear.

Of course the CP tells me to pull over 'cause I gotta get a green sticker on my otherwise legal and licensed in NV rig. Since I want to do right, I buy the friggin sticker. Now my rig is licensed in NV and CA. Did I mention my rig is street legal in NV? Even without mudflaps?

So now I get over the hill and some overzealous CHP clown pulls me over 'cause he sees my brand new green sticker. Then the guy proceeds to write me up for no mudflaps and being a half inch to high all because I now have a CA OHV sticker So much for my constitutional garantee of free pasage between states.

Sound farfetched? I don't think so. CA politicos have a habit of making a good thing into a pile of shit. Most of us already pay to camp at the springs and I have no heartburn with that . . . It's private property. If I have to pay to camp at Spider, so be it . . . that's private property too.

If Eldo or Placer county wants to make the 'Con a toll road then I can live with that. But a state mandated registration fee? Not no, but hell no!

OK, I'm off the rag now!