Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week

This week, we're going to discuss mixing and matching stock parts to build the drivetrain you want. I'm not talking about grabbing the entire drivetrain from that GMC engine donor (that would technically count, but that's not very interesting).


We want things like:
- what do I need to do to mate my Dana 300 to my Turbo 400 without calling your favorite adapter shop
- what do I need to do to mate a T18 to my SBC 350

The trick is to do this without buying aftermarket parts.

Some of these will be very basic, but I'm sure there are some very trick combinations of parts (possibly requiring some modification) that will allow us to piece together what we want without having to shell out buck$ for parts.

How 'bout an NP435 to a D300? Putting a 435 onto an AMC motor is cake, but the tranny/t-case adapter is where the money's at?

Ideas?

Originally posted by IndyCJ
How 'bout an NP435 to a D300? Putting a 435 onto an AMC motor is cake, but the tranny/t-case adapter is where the money's at?

Ideas?

If the NP435 ever came with an NP208 t-case behind it, you can find the adapter and modify it slightly to work with the d300. The same goes for anything with a 208 behind it. The 208 and d300 have almost identical round bolt patterns.

That's about the only one I know of.

J. J.

How about AMC engine to an IH 4 speed (T18 or T19).

IH used the AMC 401 and 258 in a couple of their vehicles. Both had the T18/19 available behind them. There is a stock bellhousing that allows you to put the IH 4 speed behind the AMC engine without swapping out input shafts or having to drill out the bellhousing to mate studs on the tranny.

Caveat: around 1970, AMC changed their bellhousing bolt pattern, so you'll probably want the later bellhousing.

Let me know if you are in need of either... they're taking up space in my garage.




and about that 208-Dana 300 setup.... Do the Dana 300 and Ford version of the NP205 share a bolt pattern? What's the bolt circle for each?

Originally posted by Mo
and about that 208-Dana 300 setup.... Do the Dana 300 and Ford version of the NP205 share a bolt pattern? What's the bolt circle for each?

The bolt pattern for a 205 won't work. It's completely different than a d300 ro 208.

J. J.

Originally posted by patooyee


The bolt pattern for a 205 won't work. It's completely different than a d300 ro 208.

J. J.
Ford 205 is a round 6 bolt circle... looks close to a dana 300. You thinking of the GM/dodge 205?

Ford 205 has a circular pattern, not sure on the dimensions, late model dodge 205 has a circular pattern that matches a 231/241 & Dana 300, and a 23spline input coupler, GM 205 has a moer hour glass-shaped pattern.

Originally posted by Mo

Ford 205 is a round 6 bolt circle... looks close to a dana 300. You thinking of the GM/dodge 205?

I guess I could be. I knew that the GM 205 didnt match. I assumed the ford was the same. Guess it isn't. Maybe that would work, too, then.

J. J.

A great reference on mating Ford trannies to GM motors with no adaptors. This is how my T18 is set up.
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/ford_to_gm.htm

To take it one step further, you can get a 4:1 IH T18 and take the adaptor and output shaft out of it. Use that on your Ford T18 - requires that you drill and tap some holes.

That way you can build a T18 to fit a chev or buick with D18/D20 for about $200-$300 total

This isn't as complicated as mating up boxes and stuff.........
Like instead of going and buying a new aftermarket "drop pitman arm" for about $60.00 you can pull one from a ZJ to fit a YJ box.
For upgrading your brakes, you could use a dual diaphram booster from a ZJ (with spacer between firewall and dash) and Vette master cylinder is supposed to be a bolt up.
I assume that a master cyl from an 86 Ford E-350 will bolt up to the booster after the edges are clearanced and the holes drilled to 9/16.
I'm gathering the parts above right now so if anyone sees a problem, please let me know or add something. thanks.

I've got a simple one too....

A Scout II Dana 44 rear is a cheap replacement for a stock AMC 20 rear end in CJ's for several reasons:
1. The whole D 44 axle with new brakes is cheaper than one pices shafts for the AMC 20
2. Scouts used the same gear ratios as 70's CJ's (3.54, 3.73 and 4.10)
3. Scout D 44 rears are ~ the same width as WT CJ's (58" mounting surface to mounting surface)
4. Same bolt pattern (5x5.5) as CJ's

but you don't get to keep that cool pith helmet diff cover :flipoff2:

?Ford 205 has a circular pattern, not sure on the dimensions, late model dodge 205 has a circular pattern that matches a 231/241 & Dana 300, and a 23spline input coupler, GM 205 has a moer hour glass-shaped pattern.





hmmmmmmmmm anybody know if the ford 205 will bolt up or not

anybody?:eek:

I'm not going to swear to this but I think the round pattern transfer cases appeared in 1980. Pre '80 GM NP205s have a figure 8 pattern, and post 80 transfer cases have the round pattern. I have no idea on the Fords or Dodges. I haven't actually tried it, but I've heard that the round bolt pattern wherever it is found is some sort of SAE standard, and it's all the same.

I haven't actually tried it, but I've heard that the round bolt pattern wherever it is found is some sort of SAE standard, and it's all the same.

I'd be inclined to believe it since NP/NVG makes just about every transfercase used in light trucks since 1987, really since 1980, but Jeep seemed to be a hold-out. It goes along with the inherent laziness all engineers seem to demonstrate.

ok i will chime in with a blip on brakes, mine use to really suck
i took a hydroboost system off a chevy disel pickup, used a 68 vette master cylinder, made a t fitting for the one line and it will damn near put you thru the windshield. the vette mc was new around 50 bucks, hydroboost junk yard 30 bucks
all i had to do was make the 4 holes on the firewall a little bigger

I am using stock FS waggy D44 axles for my Jeep and intend to go to rear disk brakes. I have Cheby full-size truck (mid-70's) calipers and plan on six-lug Chevy rotors. I am using the stock Waggy rotor/caliper on the front. I anticipate the prop valve, but currently have CJ booster and MC. Its a unique mix/match of parts and I haven't had search luck so far (doing it with this configuration anyway). Guess ahm just hopin for a sanity check and critique from folks that have done it before, thanks

well here are some simple ones..

converting a front wagoneer d44 from 6 lug to 5
you can use a chevy d44 spindle or have a machine shop lathe down the stock wagoneer spindle to fit ford 1/2 ton inner bearings.. the outers will work fine.. then use a ford 1/2 ton bearing hub/rotor with the stock wagoneer caliper (cheaper) and caliper mounting plate...

you can also convert this to 8 lug with using the 3/4 ton stuff..

make your own adapter to put an t-176 jeep tranny behind a chevy small block bell housing... i dont have any demensions on me.. but i gave away the plate that i made.. its about an inch thick.. just torched it out.. drilled some holes.. and it bolted up.. im sure a machine shop could also do it for cheap..

also a hydroboost from a humvee works well also... just have to drill out the firewall some.. and get some lines made..

for people converting to high steer on a d44... and run into the drag link rubbing on the tie rod.. can use a pitman arm of a early 70's dodge 4x4.. its shorter by an inch but needs to be reamed out... but it has plenty of meat on it just for that..

How about what T-case will mate up easily to a turbo 350 that will fit in my CJ2a? :D so I can change out this Fawkin passenger offset rear axle? :flipoff2: needs to have a passenger front offset :D

Originally posted by The Californian
How about what T-case will mate up easily to a turbo 350 that will fit in my CJ2a? :D so I can change out this Fawkin passenger offset rear axle? :flipoff2: needs to have a passenger front offset :D

Any t-case out of a Chevy that had a TH350. :) But if you're talking about a stock-length flatty, you're looking at no rear drive shaft.

Another option is the NP208 adapter to D300 t-case.

J. J.

'80-86 CJ w/ GM 151 "Iron Duke" 4cylinders. . .

Engine block pattern is same as 4.3/350 Chevy.
Clutch is hydraulic from factory.

So to get your SBC to Jeep manual tranny, look for one of these rotting in a field, JY, or at the end of somebody's driveway.

Bellhousing and clutch parts can be had from the local JY for $50-100. ;)

Originally posted by Devil Dog
for people converting to high steer on a d44... and run into the drag link rubbing on the tie rod.. can use a spindle of a early 70's dodge 4x4.. its shorter by an inch but needs to be reamed out... but it has plenty of meat on it just for that..

What difference would a spindle make on tie rod/draglink interference? You sure you meant to say spindle, since that's the part that the wheel rotates around?

Originally posted by Mo
Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week

This week, we're going to discuss mixing and matching stock parts to build the drivetrain you want. I'm not talking about grabbing the entire drivetrain from that GMC engine donor (that would technically count, but that's not very interesting).


We want things like:
- what do I need to do to mate my Dana 300 to my Turbo 400 without calling your favorite adapter shop
- what do I need to do to mate a T18 to my SBC 350

The trick is to do this without buying aftermarket parts.

Some of these will be very basic, but I'm sure there are some very trick combinations of parts (possibly requiring some modification) that will allow us to piece together what we want without having to shell out buck$ for parts.

I did it!!!

I mated a Ford 2wd np435 to a D300 using the D300-T176 adapter!!!. Here's how:

The mainshaft of the 435 needs to be cut and splined to mate the 23 spline input of the D300, A custom 1/2" thick and 8" diameter round adapter plate is bolted behind the NP435 (A trim is needed to clear the countershaft bearing cap) and finally the stock T176 adapter tranny side is machines up to be rounded 8" (again this adapter needs to be milled to clear the countershaf bearing)
and bolted to the plate, that's it!!!

to bolt the plate to the tranny I used 4 1/2" allen bolts.

Originally posted by jeepinislife


I did it!!!

I mated a Ford 2wd np435 to a D300 using the D300-T176 adapter!!!. Here's how:

The mainshaft of the 435 needs to be cut and splined to mate the 23 spline input of the D300, A custom 1/2" thick and 8" diameter round adapter plate is bolted behind the NP435 (A trim is needed to clear the countershaft bearing cap) and finally the stock T176 adapter tranny side is machines up to be rounded 8" (again this adapter needs to be milled to clear the countershaf bearing)
and bolted to the plate, that's it!!!

to bolt the plate to the tranny I used 4 1/2" allen bolts.

Having never worked with an NP 435, I'm curious about a couple things. Why did you need the plate? The back of the NP435 is flat is it not? Couldn't you have just milled off any counter shaft interference and drilled the bolt pattern into your tranny? Does your 1/2" plate serve as a bearing retainer for the the outpur bearing? How thick did whole thing end up being? What was the spline of the 2WD output shaft? Could you have broached the t-case input gear to match that. I don't mean to knock your design, just curious about it.

The d300 will bolt up to some Dodge NP435s. But I've never found anyone that's adapted the dodge tranny to an AMC engine. A ford input shaft may swap into the dodge case, but never heard of it being done.

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep


Having never worked with an NP 435, I'm curious about a couple things. Why did you need the plate? The back of the NP435 is flat is it not? Couldn't you have just milled off any counter shaft interference and drilled the bolt pattern into your tranny? Does your 1/2" plate serve as a bearing retainer for the the outpur bearing? How thick did whole thing end up being? What was the spline of the 2WD output shaft? Could you have broached the t-case input gear to match that. I don't mean to knock your design, just curious about it.

Sorry, you cannot knock my design even if you wanted to because it is not a project, it's a reality!!!. Happens to be that the NP435 rear is not flat!!, the countershaft bearing retainer cap protrudes out of the case 1" (you cannot mill it in any way!!). The adapter plate is machined at the center to serve as as bearing retainer as you quoted (it also has a small lube notch as the stock tailhousing) and resplining it is not an option since you cannot mate the tcase directly to the plate (the countershaft bearing reatainer cap again!). The tailshaft of the 2WD np435 is too long and too thin at the splined portion. In fact I cut this portion and machined and resplined the thicker portion of the output shaft thas has enough material to bring it to 23 spline as the D300. Don't have exactly the overall assembly length, but you can obtain it by substracting T176 length from NP435 length and adding .5" (the plate). This is the difference between the stock driveline and the modified one.
This work was inspired on a project done by Mr. Chris Waterman (www.bc4x4.com).

One thing I've not written is that one of the allen bolts should be shorter to clear the reverse idler gear. (exactly as ford stock tailhousing is bolted). The plate must allow the boltheads to enter .25" ( The bolts will be covered by similar counterholes at the adapter, these bolts cannot be seen at the final setup). As I previously wrote the stock T176 adapter needs to be machined. You must calculate the clocking position of the tcase and then drill the holes to mate the plate and the inside holes to hide the allen bolt heads. Two custom gaskets are required, one at each face of the plate. The tranny mounts are the real PITA. You must weld them to the back of the tranny case.

Originally posted by ryankopecki
The d300 will bolt up to some Dodge NP435s. But I've never found anyone that's adapted the dodge tranny to an AMC engine. A ford input shaft may swap into the dodge case, but never heard of it being done.

Being the Ford NP435 so easy to be bolted up to a Jeep bellhousing nobody thinks on a Dodge NP435 swap, Dodge Np435 and Ford Np435 do not share internals as far as I know.

is it possible to flip a D300 behind a T18 or NP435 in order to use it as a driver side drop???

Originally posted by Buba
is it possible to flip a D300 behind a T18 or NP435 in order to use it as a driver side drop??? ...Why not just use a ford np208 behind one of those trannys? Ford ones have no slip yoke.


I'm not positive about all Fords, but the NP-208 I have out of an 86 F-250 has a slip yoke on the back. I'm trying to convert an 82 Wagoneer 208 AM to use the fixed yoke.

And, I have to guess that D-300 with its gear drive in a steel case is stronger than an aluminum chain drive NP-208.

Anyone have anything to add in the years downtime.

I guess this should be here.

np435 to d300 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114405)

I guess this should be here.

np435 to d300 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114405)


Yeah after searching for np435 to d300 info I found this old post and your post.That is exactly what I want to do.You had to take that much out of the floor?Was that the only option?What motor are you running you mentioned the sr4 bellhousing which would be for chevy.Figured this would be a good time to see what else people have for simple swaps.
Thanks

I'm running a 4.2 from a yj. No I didn't have to take that much out, somebody screwed up a little, but it did have to be cut to clock it that height. The sr4/t4/t5 bellhousing is what I used. I guess the T176 one will work too.

I've got a simple one too....

A Scout II Dana 44 rear is a cheap replacement for a stock AMC 20 rear end in CJ's for several reasons:
1. The whole D 44 axle with new brakes is cheaper than one pices shafts for the AMC 20
2. Scouts used the same gear ratios as 70's CJ's (3.54, 3.73 and 4.10)
3. Scout D 44 rears are ~ the same width as WT CJ's (58" mounting surface to mounting surface)
4. Same bolt pattern (5x5.5) as CJ's

but you don't get to keep that cool pith helmet diff cover :flipoff2:

Some Mid 70s Pickup trucks have rear D44s that are nearly a straight bolt up. Just new spring perches (you can even leave the old ones on). I found one that was 4.27 stock and 11" brakes 5x5 1/2 bolt pattered. I just regeared the front with spicer 4.27 gears and I got away cheap, but you can find them with 4.11 and a couple of other ratios..

...you can get a 4:1 IH T18 and take the adaptor and output shaft out of it. Use that on your Ford T18 - requires that you drill and tap some holes.

That way you can build a T18 to fit a chev or buick with D18/D20 for about $200-$300 totalJust to add a little... First off, this works *beautifully*.

You can also do it using an IH T98 mainshaft and adapter (just found this out last weekend), and of course you could use a 6:1 shaft too, but that would be evil... You cannot, however, use a T19 shaft in a T18 (the T19 adapter fits though) as the shafts are different by two snap-ring grooves.

The IH 4:1 trannies are a dime a dozen. $200-$300 can easily get you a perfectly good Ford T18 AND the IH T18/98 doner (I paid $30 for my IH T18, and just got a freeby T98 that could have worked), AND a gasket/seal set, with maybe even enough left over to modify your drivelines.

Will a 81 jeep waggy TF-727 on a 360 and an 84 Dodge Ramcharger
TF-727on a 360 interchange? I happen to have both one with bad motor and one with bad trans....

The brake topic has been covered on it's own, but to put it simply to avoid confusion....

If you have four wheel discs, use a master cyclinder from a vehicle that also has 4 wheel discs. I used a mercury marquis (corvette works too, I believe) master cyclinder for my dana 44 front (dual piston calipers) and dana 60 rear (70's chevy brakes from a 3/4 ton).

If you have discs up front, and drums in the rear you'll want something such as the E-350 master cyclinder because it's designed for that type of setup.

Add a proportioning valve if you need to. <--do any vehicles come with a reuseable/tuneable prop valve by chance?:confused:

-Russ

Will a 81 jeep waggy TF-727 on a 360 and an 84 Dodge Ramcharger
TF-727on a 360 interchange? I happen to have both one with bad motor and one with bad trans....
unfortunately, no.

Not a biggie but might help someone.
I had a Jeep T-18 4:1 in my rig. Found a Ford T-18 6.32:1 and just swapped the guts in to the Jeep case. No adpters, no driveline changes, etc.

This is pretty common knowledge, but I'll chime in anyway.

2.5L to SM420

This swap is great, it gives you a lower crawl ratio than a 4:1 in the tcase with stock tranny, and its BEEF.

Bellhousing '86 S-10 Blazer with a 2.8L and a 5-speed ($50-75 from 'yard)
10 spline clutch disc out of '84 CJ 5(or 7 can't remember) with 4 banger
Pressure plate, throwout bearing, fork, from Blazer
Beer

Then the 420 bolts up! (With minor bellhousing mods)

Then you need the adaptor to the tcase, at least half of it was done without the aftermarket!!

see a lot of dana 300 talk is there mix and match yokes for the 300 that u can find in the JY

Will the (1989) TF999 bolt up to a 1994 4.0L? The 4.0L had an AX-15 attached to it.

I know this is "Jeep" section. I have one, but Im curious about a Ford setup and will probably get more response in this thread than in the "Ford" section. I have a 68 bronco with the 289 V8. It has the 3 speed manual. I would like to switch to an automatic. The Transfer case is a Dana 20 (drivers side drop). Im looking for the most cost effective way to throw in an automatic without having to pay for expensive adapters. The stock automatic from the bronco is pretty hard to come by (had an adapter for the Dana 20). I am willing to consider another transfercase all together since mine needs a rebuild anyway. Ive heard 700R4 can be done with considerable work, as well as a C4 or AOD, but both require some serious work and adapters unless there is something out there in the junkyard to make it happen.

289/??/Dana 20 or ?? = cheap

can anybody fill in this equation?

I know this is "Jeep" section. I have one, but Im curious about a Ford setup and will probably get more response in this thread than in the "Ford" section. I have a 68 bronco with the 289 V8. It has the 3 speed manual. I would like to switch to an automatic. The Transfer case is a Dana 20 (drivers side drop). Im looking for the most cost effective way to throw in an automatic without having to pay for expensive adapters. The stock automatic from the bronco is pretty hard to come by (had an adapter for the Dana 20). I am willing to consider another transfercase all together since mine needs a rebuild anyway. Ive heard 700R4 can be done with considerable work, as well as a C4 or AOD, but both require some serious work and adapters unless there is something out there in the junkyard to make it happen.

289/??/Dana 20 or ?? = cheap

can anybody fill in this equation?
I'd think this would be a piece of cake, find a 4x4 ford truck with a 289-351W with an automatic and you just use the transmission and transfer case.

see a lot of dana 300 talk is there mix and match yokes for the 300 that u can find in the JY

Im sure you want the big upgrade swap... This ain't it :) BUT...

IIRC (been a while) - While this isn't super high tech.. When I was putting my 300 in I had some D30/D35 crap laying around so I played mix/match to see what/if would work.. The stock 27spline take offs went on ok and contacted the seal properly etc.. They more/less looked like the 300 parts anyway.. The only difference may be any dust shields, mine had all been removed anyway.. Obviously I didn't want to swap on a yoke with straps, but it might work good as a trail spare if needed.

I'd think this would be a piece of cake, find a 4x4 ford truck with a 289-351W with an automatic and you just use the transmission and transfer case.

Im way too good at overthinking things and missing the blatantly obvious. :D