my 95 12 v does but doesnt want to start. i have to start it first thing in the morning if i want to use later on in the day. I CAN NOT let it sit for one day without being started. i have checked the fuel shut off seliond and the fuel shut off it-self, maybe its eating these fuel shut off selionds. I was also told that my lift pump might be going out its not bleeding through the the little pee hole. And then there is the rubber fuel line that is about 12" long, i was told it might have some pin holes and its bleeding off. I dont know? can any help?

you most likely have air entering the system somewhere.. Did you replace the fuel filter just before this started happening? If you did you could try tightening it another 1/4 turn..If that does not work you may need to take the filter and remove the disk above it and replace the O-ring on top of it..
If you did not replace the filter before it began happening you probably have some pinholes in the fuel line that are allowing air in and the fuel to return to the tank..

you most likely have air entering the system somewhere.

x2.

I'd be checking the flexible feed and return lines by the bellhousing. It's going to be on the feed side, but the return line could be leaking making a mess too.

Mine is hard to start, but I think my over-flow valve is leaking down(bleeding off) and here lately the shut-off relay is F-n up...so all new parts are going in today along w/ Luk Pro Gold clutch

while I'm at it, I will be changing and rubber lines out with good some super good hoses.

Yep, rubber fuel supply lines more than likely.

Try parking it downhill once and see if it seems better, this will prove the lines to be the problem (before flamming me, this is dtr advice).

LIFT PUMP!!!


I have a 93' and a 99' and they both needed lift pumps when they started doing that,

Carter has a replacement that flows a bit more than stock for $120

Check on TurboDieselRegister for the part #

A little pedal when cranking can help too...

my 95 12 v does but doesnt want to start. i have to start it first thing in the morning if i want to use later on in the day. I CAN NOT let it sit for one day without being started. i have checked the fuel shut off seliond and the fuel shut off it-self, maybe its eating these fuel shut off solenoids. I was also told that my lift pump might be going out its not bleeding through the the little pee hole. And then there is the rubber fuel line that is about 12" long, i was told it might have some pin holes and its bleeding off. I dont know? can any help?

First, look for fuel wetness on the line. Check the left battery (driver's side). Make sure its clean. The fuel shut off solenoid and relay gets its power from the positive side. Corrosion will prevent power from reaching both = crank but no start.:smokin:

BTW my original lift pump, injection, and solenoid has 255,000 mi. 1998 3500 4wd 12 valve.

A little pedal when cranking can help too...

IMHO, you shouldn't have to use any pedal unless it is REALLY cold. The only time I have to use the pedal is if my truck isn't plugged in and it is below zero outside.

I've been told that if you need to use the pedal to start the truck it is an indicator that the injection pump is starting to die. This was definitely the case in my buddy's skid steer but that uses a different style of injection pump.

IMHO, you shouldn't have to use any pedal unless it is REALLY cold. The only time I have to use the pedal is if my truck isn't plugged in and it is below zero outside.

I've been told that if you need to use the pedal to start the truck it is an indicator that the injection pump is starting to die. This was definitely the case in my buddy's skid steer but that uses a different style of injection pump.

Well, you're right. when everything is 100%, you shouldn't need any pedal. But if you have a weak lift pump, leaking return lines, etc.. using a little pedal can make the difference between starting and not.

First, look for fuel wetness on the line. Check the left battery (driver's side). Make sure its clean. The fuel shut off solenoid and relay gets its power from the positive side. Corrosion will prevent power from reaching both = crank but no start.:smokin:

BTW my original lift pump, injection, and solenoid has 255,000 mi. 1998 3500 4wd 12 valve.

My truck would not start for this exact reason.... Loose battery connection = not enough juice to the fuel shut off solenoid = no start BUT enough juice to crank all day...


ALSO -- My truck wouldn't start when the short sectioin of rubber supply line right before the lift pump cracked from age and would suck air... $5.00 in hose and a couple new hose clamps and it was back to firing right up...

I might add that running with a weak lift pump will KILL your primary injector pump, and that thing is big $$$$$$

I might add that running with a weak lift pump will KILL your primary injector pump, and that thing is big $$$$$$

To the best of my knowledge, this applies only to the vp44 pumps, not the p-pumps like the '94-'98 12 valves had. The p-pumps were lubricated by oil, not fuel like the vp44s are.

To the best of my knowledge, this applies only to the vp44 pumps, not the p-pumps like the '94-'98 12 valves had. The p-pumps were lubricated by oil, not fuel like the vp44s are.

Brain fart, ooops

Yea that is correct

Couple of things to examine. first you need to determine how much of the system is bleeding off. is the system still holding fuel betweent eh P7100 and the fuel filter? easy way to check this is when you crank it over in the morning does it fire up and run for 10-30 seconds then get rough and die? If yes then the leak is before the filter....next check some morning to see if the line from the lift pump to the fuel filter is holding fuel. easily checked by cracking the lowest point on the line close to teh lift pump. if it driblles out some fuel then is before that point. it is unlikely for it to bleed throught eh piston style pump used those years.

so your next culprets can be the rubber line from the frame to the engine hard line. Or a rubber coupler seal there are only 2 IIRC....

OR There is a pre filter and fuel heater assembly attached at the lift pump. it is becoming very common for the gasket at the wires to dry and crack allowing air to bleed into the system, thus allowing the prefilter and lift pump to loose prime ..... if it is even remotely wet. around that area, then it is highly likely that is your culpret but because that part of the system is always under suction because the lift pump is always pulling fuel up through that part of the system rarely does fuel leak out mostly air gets pulled in even whent eh engine is idle because the gravity is still pulling the fuel back to the tank and that prefilet/heater is the highest point.

I have changed out a couple of these so far for friends in the last two years who had very simlar symptoms as you. its rare but happens thats where id start looking.

xwhatever on the air problem.

We got a free truck because it would not start, they thought it was the injection pump and wanted the truck gone. Their loss, our gain. Again, $5 in fuel line.

We had a hard time finding the air leak. We ended up putting a turkey baster in the fuel line to pull a vacuum and listen for the air leak later on in the system. Ended up being right over the bell housing like everyone else said. The hose looked great, no fuel leak, but enough to kill the vacuum to the pump.

Be warned, the thing will smoke like a sun-of-a when it finally fires...


You can pull the line off of the pump and hit the primer and see if any fuel comes out. Ours would not pull a prime.

Things to check

1) overflow valve (if it's weak, it can bleed fuel off)

2) all fuel lines, including the ones back at the tank (mine were almost kinked shut from the factory)

3) fuel solenoid (is it staying open ?)

4) fuel preheater (they have a habit of leaking and not working)

5) fuel filter seal

6) injector timing (if it has slipped, it can cause the same symptoms)


And for the record, with a new injection pump, new lift pump, and new lines, mine is still hard to start if it wasn't plugged in and it is below 40 deg out.


One thing you can do to check if it is on the suction side, is using shop air, pressurize the tank to about 10 psi, if it starts easily then, you know you have a leak on the suction side. That is how I reprime mine after doing any work that bleeds pressure down. I got an old fill cap and put an air fitting in it, and just use that.

Just another thing to add, although it probably isn't part of the problem here. But if you rely on the block heater, and it doesn't seem to make a difference starting, you may want to double check that the chord is actually plugged into the heater at the block. Mine was unplugged when I bought it and I just figured it was that cold outside. Once I fixed it, I was amazed at the difference starting.

Also, if your grid heaters aren't working, it will make it harder to start.

FWIW guys, nothing was mentioned anywhere about cold weather being a factor in the original post.

Also, if your grid heaters aren't working, it will make it harder to start.

I still question how much effect the grid heater really has on whether the truck starts or not in cold weather. I can start mine without waiting for the grid heater to cycle even in the low single digits without a block heater. It just smokes a LOT. I've been told it was more for smoke control/emissions than ease of starting and I'm starting to believe this based on what I have found so far. Just my $0.02 on this subject.

FWIW guys, nothing was mentioned anywhere about cold weather being a factor in the original post.



I still question how much effect the grid heater really has on whether the truck starts or not in cold weather. I can start mine without waiting for the grid heater to cycle even in the low single digits without a block heater. It just smokes a LOT. I've been told it was more for smoke control/emissions than ease of starting and I'm starting to believe this based on what I have found so far. Just my $0.02 on this subject.


yep

check the idle setting also

I recently did a fuel system overhaul on my 98 12 valve.

Replaced the fuel filter, removed the fuel preheater, replaced the small elbow hose that goes from the preheater/strainer assembly to the lift pump. (Cummins part about $15) I replaced the soft send and return jumpers up front and in the rear of the truck with diesel rated marine fuel line. I also replaced the lift pump and put a new boot on the fuel solenoid, I replaced the overflow valve as well.

After all that I realized that the reason mine wouldn't start was that it was out of fuel and my gauge was stuck on full... so I replaced the sending unit in the tank and kicked myself in the ass.

I used to have slight starting issues because I park in my slanted driveway. Those rubber hoses were in bad shape on mine, they're known to cause trouble and finding an air leak is just about impossible.

I still question how much effect the grid heater really has on whether the truck starts or not in cold weather. I can start mine without waiting for the grid heater to cycle even in the low single digits without a block heater. It just smokes a LOT. I've been told it was more for smoke control/emissions than ease of starting and I'm starting to believe this based on what I have found so far. Just my $0.02 on this subject.

I had a bit of argument about this topic just the other day and did some research on the topic. Based on Cummins documentation, all B and C series engines have grid heaters, whether they were intended for use on or off-road. This includes marine and generator engines. While that doesn't necessarily preclude the grid heaters from serving an emissions function, it certainly throws some doubt on the topic.

As I understand it, grid heaters are intended to bring diesel fuel up above the flash point (~145F) so that the fuel vaporizes more easily for starting. While compression will raise the air temperature in the cylinder to the auto-ignition point of diesel (~410F), deduction tells me that a cylinder full of vaporized diesel will start more readily than a pool of liquid diesel sitting on top of the piston which may have to go through several compression cycles before it's warm enough to vaporize and ignite. If conditions were severe enough, I imagine the introduction of additional cold fuel and air into the engine on each cycle might sink enough heat that the engine never starts.

That's my deduction, which means that I'm just guessing and I might very well be full of shit.

Couple of things to examine. first you need to determine how much of the system is bleeding off. is the system still holding fuel betweent eh P7100 and the fuel filter? easy way to check this is when you crank it over in the morning does it fire up and run for 10-30 seconds then get rough and die?

Yes... unless I give it a lot of throttle when this is happening (revs to almost 2k)

If yes then the leak is before the filter....next check some morning to see if the line from the lift pump to the fuel filter is holding fuel. easily checked by cracking the lowest point on the line close to teh lift pump. if it driblles out some fuel then is before that point. it is unlikely for it to bleed throught eh piston style pump used those years.


It appears I have some work to do. I was thinking it was cold weather related, however, it has warmed up here and no improvement. Though when the truck has been started/run at some point in the day, starting it later is never an issue.


so your next culprets can be the rubber line from the frame to the engine hard line. Or a rubber coupler seal there are only 2 IIRC....

OR There is a pre filter and fuel heater assembly attached at the lift pump. it is becoming very common for the gasket at the wires to dry and crack allowing air to bleed into the system, thus allowing the prefilter and lift pump to loose prime ..... if it is even remotely wet. around that area, then it is highly likely that is your culpret but because that part of the system is always under suction because the lift pump is always pulling fuel up through that part of the system rarely does fuel leak out mostly air gets pulled in even whent eh engine is idle because the gravity is still pulling the fuel back to the tank and that prefilet/heater is the highest point.

I have changed out a couple of these so far for friends in the last two years who had very simlar symptoms as you. its rare but happens thats where id start looking.

thanks!

FWIW guys, nothing was mentioned anywhere about cold weather being a factor in the original post.

He also didn't say that it wasn't a factor. Let me see, Delta CO, right now it's 22 degrees, what are the chances that cold weather has something to do with it?

FWIW guys, nothing was mentioned anywhere about cold weather being a factor in the original post.



I still question how much effect the grid heater really has on whether the truck starts or not in cold weather. I can start mine without waiting for the grid heater to cycle even in the low single digits without a block heater. It just smokes a LOT. I've been told it was more for smoke control/emissions than ease of starting and I'm starting to believe this based on what I have found so far. Just my $0.02 on this subject.

I know where you are going with this, and on MY truck/engine, no grid heaters means it won't start if it hasn't been plugged in and it is below 45 deg or so outside.

And even though you don't wait for the wait to start light to go out, it still energizes the heaters.

This is with the correct idle speed, new injection pump & lift pump, new overflow and all new lines. Timing has been checked within the last 6 months, and it has been driven less than 500 miles in those last 6 months.

Sorry, but that's the way mine is........a cold natured dodge......kinda normal.

He also didn't say that it wasn't a factor. Let me see, Delta CO, right now it's 22 degrees, what are the chances that cold weather has something to do with it?

IMHO, 22 degrees isn't cold. Maybe I've been lucky, but I have yet to see a relatively late model diesel truck that won't start on its own in those conditions that didn't have something wrong with it.

I know where you are going with this, and on MY truck/engine, no grid heaters means it won't start if it hasn't been plugged in and it is below 45 deg or so outside.

And even though you don't wait for the wait to start light to go out, it still energizes the heaters.

This is with the correct idle speed, new injection pump & lift pump, new overflow and all new lines. Timing has been checked within the last 6 months, and it has been driven less than 500 miles in those last 6 months.

Sorry, but that's the way mine is........a cold natured dodge......kinda normal.

I'm not trying to start a pissing match about the grid heaters and what they do or not.

I realize that the grid heater is still heating even though I don't wait. It also runs after I start it too, which is yet another reason that I don't believe that the grid heater's primary function is to start the truck but rather smoke control.

I disagree with your statement that your truck is "normal." I've heard more people say that their trucks start in most reasonable weather (above zero) with no starting aids than I have heard of people complaining about their truck not starting in the winter. I'm sure there would be a lot of complaining around here too if they didn't start too considering that it's going to be -27 degrees F here this weekend.

That's just my findings, apparently yours are different. :)

EDIT: I also just remembered something else of interested on the grid heater debate. NONE of the MDT chassis that I have ever worked on and/or driven have ever had a "wait to start" light nor did we wait to start at any temperature. Guess what? They always started unless the fuel was gelled and NONE of them had a block heater either.

I disagree with your statement that your truck is "normal."

The only thing I meant by this is that dodges are typically hard to start cold....diesel or otherwise.

The only thing I meant by this is that dodges are typically hard to start cold....diesel or otherwise.

That's what I disagree with. Hard starting in cold weather is not typical from what I've seen and heard of the mopar stuff.

Really cold weather has a funny way of breaking things and/or weeding out the weak parts in the system. My truck started leaking fuel from the return line by the bellhousing but it would only do it when the temps dropped below zero. Guess what I got to change when it was about -10 degrees F outside in an unheated shop? Things like that could be why I haven't had a starting issue where some people who live in a warmer climate may have problems and not realize that there is anything wrong.

That's what I disagree with. Hard starting in cold weather is not typical from what I've seen and heard of the mopar stuff.

Really cold weather has a funny way of breaking things and/or weeding out the weak parts in the system. My truck started leaking fuel from the return line by the bellhousing but it would only do it when the temps dropped below zero. Guess what I got to change when it was about -10 degrees F outside in an unheated shop? Things like that could be why I haven't had a starting issue where some people who live in a warmer climate may have problems and not realize that there is anything wrong.


Ditto! My ol' Scout worked great and "Never had a problem..." until mid December in Minnesota -- then you realize you have a weak coil, dying plug wires, your timing is off a touch... And it won't start no matter how hard you try... Fix all that stuff, tune it correctly and it would start at -10 no problem.


Fix all the problems and keep it in tune and you'll be amazed at how will it start and works at all temps.

grid heaters also have nothing to do with the fuel. It heats up the air as it comes through the intake plenum. It's basically just a heavy duty toaster coil that cycles to heat up the air. I think it's an air leak some where also common problem. You never said anything about cranking. Is it cranking really well? These trucks are notorious for having starters that need new contacts you can get oversized ones from Larry on TDR that work really well. I think Geno's garage sells them. Also the guy that said is 93 and 99 had issues with the lift pump niether of those trucks have the same injection pump as this truck rotary and VP44 both completely different than the 12v pump.

-ben

Well, I've owned about a dozen or so dodges, and all of them liked to take their time starting in the cold...didn't matter if everything was new or not.

The only thing I meant by this is that dodges are typically hard to start cold....diesel or otherwise.
Rubbish. My 99 CTD 24v starts without a block heater fairly easily at -5 degrees F, and with only a single cycle of the grid heaters.

Rubbish. My 99 CTD 24v starts without a block heater fairly easily at -5 degrees F, and with only a single cycle of the grid heaters.

OK...guess I am the only one with this issue. All the others I know who have complained of the same thing must be crazy.


And m016324, that is correct, but there is a fuel pre heater, and they are notorious for going bad and leaking fuel, allowing the air to get into the line on the suction side of the pump.

OK...guess I am the only one with this issue. All the others I know who have complained of the same thing must be crazy.

I guess you are I have four dodge trucks right now two gasoline(89 and 97) and two diesel (93 and 06)and i can get in either one of them hit the key and they will fire right up.. Also had a 94 Diesel and only time I had any trouble with it was when the O-ring above the disc above the fuel filter got damaged during a filter change.. Had to crank it for a couple minutes to get it started took a while to find since there was no external leakage..


And m016324, that is correct, but there is a fuel pre heater, and they are notorious for going bad and leaking fuel, allowing the air to get into the line on the suction side of the pump.

never had the problem either neither have any of the guys I work with that have Dodge Diesels maybe you have really bad luck or you are FOS..

Just spray a half a can of starting fluid in the air filter and fire it up. It is cheaper than fixing anything. Make sure that you use enough to keep it going until anything that is wrong will be overcome. Seriously, starting fluid is only a couple bucks a can, anything from Cummins is going to be at least a hundred, and then what if you guess wrong? Just buy the starting fluid, use a lot and forget about it.

Just spray a half a can of starting fluid in the air filter and fire it up. It is cheaper than fixing anything. Make sure that you use enough to keep it going until anything that is wrong will be overcome. Seriously, starting fluid is only a couple bucks a can, anything from Cummins is going to be at least a hundred, and then what if you guess wrong? Just buy the starting fluid, use a lot and forget about it.

:laughing: What do you think is going to happen when the grid heater cycles? ;)

You folks bitchin casue yer Dodges start hard in the cold should try a Powerstroke out at -20 :D



:flipoff2:

Well, I would not really use starting fluid. One of my peeves is when someone asks a question and then falls off the earth. Jeeper Holly started the thread over a week ago, a lot of guys tried to help him. A page and a half of responses later and not even a thanks. So I gave him the most rediculous answer I could think of at the time. I hope that no innocents were harmed in my prank.

never had the problem either neither have any of the guys I work with that have Dodge Diesels maybe you have really bad luck or you are FOS..

wow.....regarding the fuel preheater leaking.....maybe you should call cummins and ask them...or do some research on any of the diesel boards.....it is a known problem.