on a 14bff Chevy. Anyone run them that way? Any disadvantage to not running one in front like the stock setup?

If it's a trail only rig I'd say ok, but if daily driver I dunno... I haven't seen anyone set one up like that.

makes axle wrap more obvious.

both in front would do more to resist it.

unless you have a traction bar, dont do it.

That was basically what I thougt. Its a street/trail truck.

I've been running them like that for 2 years.

I have a little vibe on take-off probably caused by wrap, but I don't have any issues with hopping.

makes axle wrap more obvious.

both in front would do more to resist it.

unless you have a traction bar, dont do it.

Why, because you think his shocks are more resistant to bound than rebound?

I don't think you would notice a difference either way.

Why, because you think his shocks are more resistant to bound than rebound?

I don't think you would notice a difference either way.

generally, shocks ARE more resistant to compression than rebound when valved for a rear shock application. of course, they could be 50/50... but what the heck.
ever have a nitrogen charged shock in your hands? when you get them, they come with a little strap that holds them from fully extending... because the nitrogen charge tries to keep them extended... not that it will do much of anything for rebound.

now on a regular shock, it may not make a difference provided the valving is 50/50.

Benn running both behind the axle on my S-10 for over 5 years. I have a traction bar also.

I run both of mine on the front of the 14 bolt. Never thought twice about it.

I have a traction bar also.

there you go.

mine are on the rear. i've never had a problem
http://bp0.blogger.com/_2k7UmqhN2Hc/RdJz23i5SOI/AAAAAAAAAGs/T5dXWfm6jPU/s320/IMG_0986.JPG

my friend has his on the front no problem. i don't think it really matters

I only run one on the rear axle now. Only one on the front axle also. I haven't noticed any change.

generally, shocks ARE more resistant to compression than rebound when valved for a rear shock application. of course, they could be 50/50... but what the heck.
ever have a nitrogen charged shock in your hands? when you get them, they come with a little strap that holds them from fully extending... because the nitrogen charge tries to keep them extended... not that it will do much of anything for rebound.

now on a regular shock, it may not make a difference provided the valving is 50/50.


Regardless, I don't think shocks do much to prevent axle wrap so I don't think it matters much which way they are mounted.

Regardless, I don't think shocks do much to prevent axle wrap so I don't think it matters much which way they are mounted.
The reason they came from the factory with one in front and one in the rear on pickups was to help combat axle wrap. I think that the factory engineers might know a little more than us when it comes to suspension design.:homer:

The reason they came from the factory with one in front and one in the rear on pickups was to help combat axle wrap. I think that the factory engineers might know a little more than us when it comes to suspension design.:homer:

:shaking:



Why one in the front and one in the rear? If the only idea of mounting one to the front and one to the rear was to combat axle wrap they would both be on the front side (since most cheaper shocks are more resistant to bound than rebound) and the shock mounts would be longer (leverage).

I'm sure that they considered axle wrap with their shock setup but having one in the front and one in the back doesn't make a lot of sense just to fight axle wrap.

:shaking:



Why one in the front and one in the rear? If the only idea of mounting one to the front and one to the rear was to combat axle wrap they would both be on the front side (since most cheaper shocks are more resistant to bound than rebound) and the shock mounts would be longer (leverage).

I'm sure that they considered axle wrap with their shock setup but having one in the front and one in the back doesn't make a lot of sense just to fight axle wrap.

Ever seen a drag car where they put an airbag inside just one of the coil springs to combat wrap? (passenger side I believe) As your drive line spins and meets resistance(in the form of traction at the wheels) one side of the car rises, and the other squats. The side that rises has the wheelhop. that is why one shock is on the front and one on the other.

Why one in the front and one in the rear? If the only idea of mounting one to the front and one to the rear was to combat axle wrap they would both be on the front side (since most cheaper shocks are more resistant to bound than rebound) and the shock mounts would be longer (leverage).

I'm sure that they considered axle wrap with their shock setup but having one in the front and one in the back doesn't make a lot of sense just to fight axle wrap.

well, the one in front is usually on the passengers side. upon acceleration, the passengers side axle housing end tries to go UP due to the rotational force of the driveline. and the one on the drivers side goes down. (You notice when you hit the gas, the left front corner comes up, right?) when you accelerate HARD, with an open rear, the right rear tire spins. why? because the axle is being lifted on that end due to the rotation of the engine twisting the driveline. dont believe me? put it in reverse and do the same thing, and see which tire spins.

that might be why they put the shocks in opposition. to dampen these forces.

well, the one in front is usually on the passengers side. upon acceleration, the passengers side axle housing end tries to go UP due to the rotational force of the driveline. and the one on the drivers side goes down. (You notice when you hit the gas, the left front corner comes up, right?) when you accelerate HARD, with an open rear, the right rear tire spins. why? because the axle is being lifted on that end due to the rotation of the engine twisting the driveline. dont believe me? put it in reverse and do the same thing, and see which tire spins.

that might be why they put the shocks in opposition. to dampen these forces.Too slow grumpy:flipoff2:

But maybe you could telll me the pros and cons of a TH400 vs a TH700r4 instead.

The reason they came from the factory with one in front and one in the rear on pickups was to help combat axle wrap. I think that the factory engineers might know a little more than us when it comes to suspension design.:homer:
absolutely correct. The point of one shock in front, and one in rear is fight axle wrap. Anybody with a bit of knowledge of suspension set-up can tell ya that.

Too slow grumpy:flipoff2:

But maybe you could telll me the pros and cons of a TH400 vs a TH700r4 instead.

aww, you whooped my asss.


damnit!

:grinpimp:

Well done.

Sure, the passenger side tends to dive under acceleration due to the rotation of the pinion. It is a very relevant thing for launch on drag racers.

The force that makes the passenger side squat is (by a factor of the gear ratio) less than the axle wrap force (resisted by the springs and shocks), its pretty rare that any rock crawlers worry about it.

Again, I have no doubt that GM engineers considered axle wrap when they designed their shock mounts but would you ever consider using a shock to control your axle wrap? Even with a stock setup, I bet the spring does more than 90% of the axle wrap control.

Shocks are shocks, all of us use the trucks way past what they were designed for.

Does anyone else remember how bad "traction shocks" worked as antiwrap bars back in the 80's. The chevy engineers using shocks as to eliminate axle wrap is just a easy fix for a stock street truck.

Do it correctly. Build your shock mounts so they are as perpindicular to your suspension line of travel. Keep them up high enough so they won't be ripped off. Then build yourself a proper traction bar to fight axle wrap.

Ever seen a drag car where they put an airbag inside just one of the coil springs to combat wrap? (passenger side I believe)

Better put some extra leafs in your passenger side pack to fight axle wrap then :shaking:

Warning: secondhand information below, presented in prose - read at your own risk:

When I was a lad
I asked my dad
(An aerospace engineer)
Why shocks should dangle
at such angles
(I thought it awful queer)
He quickly stated
They're syncopated!
Harmonic Cancellation!
On bumpy trails
It never fails
There's rhythmic oscillation!
The center of mass starts hauling ass on the path of an ellipse!

When both are in back
They damp the attack
But do nothing to stave retreat!
And both in the front
Do nothing to shunt
When the cycle begins to seat!
two shocks at fore
and in back two more
Now that's a lovely contraption!
Simplicity wins,
And the bean counter grins
As the engineers made adaptations

So they placed either damper at opposite cambers to ensure that your shit doesn't flip!

:shaking:

Yah... slow day. In less entertaining terms, what Dad said was it has nothing to do with axle wrap, but instead it's because the axle (and anything else with mass) likes to oscillate in elliptical, or orbital paths and when both shocks are mounted exactly parallel, or even just hinged parallel, there will be certain angles at which mass can move/vibrate without transmitting that energy into the linear motion of the shock itself. That energy not dissipated can lead to axle hop on bumpy roads.

Warning: secondhand information below, presented in prose - read at your own risk:

When I was a lad
I asked my dad
(An aerospace engineer)
Why shocks should dangle
at such angles
(I thought it awful queer)
He quickly stated
They're syncopated!
Harmonic Cancellation!
On bumpy trails
It never fails
There's rhythmic oscillation!
The center of mass starts hauling ass on the path of an ellipse!

When both are in back
They damp the attack
But do nothing to stave retreat!
And both in the front
Do nothing to shunt
When the cycle begins to seat!
two shocks at fore
and in back two more
Now that's a lovely contraption!
Simplicity wins,
And the bean counter grins
As the engineers made adaptations

So they placed either damper at opposite cambers to ensure that your shit doesn't flip!

:shaking:

Yah... slow day. In less entertaining terms, what Dad said was it has nothing to do with axle wrap, but instead it's because the axle (and anything else with mass) likes to oscillate in elliptical, or orbital paths and when both shocks are mounted exactly parallel, or even just hinged parallel, there will be certain angles at which mass can move/vibrate without transmitting that energy into the linear motion of the shock itself. That energy not dissipated can lead to axle hop on bumpy roads.

Thats great! Right click, save as...

You can mount them any way you want. Putting them in different planes will work better then one single plane.

My old 98 S-10 had both the rear shocks mounted in the rear from the factory.

I have them mounted fore/aft on my jeep. I'm running leafs, and the initial intent was to help with axle wrap. The lower ends are mounted so they stand off the axle tube CL ~8"

How did it effect the ride?

I have both of mine mounted on top of the spring plates. It was a cheap and easy way to get out of buying longer shocks. :laughing: One shock still slants to the front and the other to the back though. I didn't notice any difference.

350122

350125

I've got my rear shocks mounted on top of the axle tubes at about 45 degrees, and never had a problem.

I knew a guy once that when he wiped his ass, he wiped towards his nads instead of away from his nads. He claimed he never had a problem with doing it that way, but does that mean he was doing it right?