Ok.. I was getting ready to change the starter in my wife's non starting disco and thought I should pull the plugs again and try to crank it over.

The 2 back most cyls on the passengerside were full of fuel!:confused:

-I had pulled and cleaned them before with no sign of moisture.
-Re-installed them and tried cranking a bunchotimes with no success. -She tried before the battery died too.
-Attemted jump starts with no success. Really slow turning or no turning at all.
-Starter confirmed dead by local vatozone. -PITFA to pull!


Would all the non cranking attempts at starting the engine cause some bad injectors to flood a cylinder?

Advice on checking injectors?

Would all the non cranking attempts at starting the engine cause some bad injectors to flood a cylinder?

Advice on checking injectors?

Leaking injectors would cause the cylinders to fill with fuel.

Pull the upper plenum and ram housing. Lift the fuel rail off the lower manifold. Have someone turn the key on, or jumper the fuel pump relay. Replace any injectors that leak more than the old RRC FSM says is acceptable.

Real-world answer, buy some Mustang injectors from either Summit or Five-O motorsports and just replace them.

You have a 12 year-old Rover, you need new injectors. 19 pound per hour, 16 ohms impedance.

Not necessarily. If you crank on a weak battery it can make injector on time lenghten. Clean it up. Change the starter. Check battery cables. Change oil and plugs and run it. Monitor spark plugs to check for rich running and leaking injectors. You can always OHM check an injector to look for obvious windings problems also.

JP

Are the 5.0 injectors a plug-n-play deal?

This has been an on going problem whenever it sits very long, it gets real hard to start.

Thanks for the fast reply's guys.

Real-world answer, buy some Mustang injectors from either Summit or Five-O motorsports and just replace them.

.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D240019&N=700+400304+320655+115&autoview=sku

Not necessarily. If you crank on a weak battery it can make injector on time lenghten. Clean it up. Change the starter. Check battery cables. Change oil and plugs and run it. Monitor spark plugs to check for rich running and leaking injectors. You can always OHM check an injector to look for obvious windings problems also.

JP

Pendy, Pendy, Pendy:shaking: stick with the oil burners!

If it were lengthened pulse width, why would it only be two cylinders filled with fuel? Why wouldn't they all be filled with fuel? While this is a GEMS engine and they have individual control over injectors versus the Lucas batch fire scheme, I find it odd that only two cylinders would reflect this condition. As always, I'm open to being corrected:flipoff2: (I am disagreeing with Pendy after all)

I will admit it is one Hell of a coincidence that it's the back two cylinders, but given the preponderance of information (granted some of which was provided after the fact) it sure sounds like leaky injectors, something none of us would be surprised to find on a '96.

Your Ramahanakmanzmastet gifts got here today. As soon as I can collect enough cat dander, they'll be on their way to you!

PT / JP ... you guys are hilarious!

You realise, of course, that it's the back two cylinders only because they're harder to reach. Them blasted Gremilins are tricky bastards! ... http://vaiden.net/gremlin3.wav ...

PT / JP ... you guys are hilarious!



No, no, no. He is Pendy, I am PT. I don't know from this Hilarious guy, sounds like a rapper or somethin' to me!:flipoff2:

No, no, no ... it's the looney toons Gremlin ... http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0507/Ibugscartoonmage1.jpg

preponderance of information !


Take off your lab coat! This is the real world Shramicide.

This time of year it is common to hear about flooded vehicles with fuel injection systems like the 96' Disco. Cold tempuratures *Cranking voltage* drops below 9V *while cranking* and a "phenoninom" occurs which increases injector on time *while cranking* You won't read about this in RAVE so I cannot expect you to quote or realize this information Schramfooey. The weak battery from ambient tempuratures is the culprit here.

Of course his new information about it often being hard to start when sitting awhile that does not reflect the cold time of year. So it may end up being injectors. And an OHM test is a good place to start.

That was an awful lot of Schramisms to not explain why it only affected two cylinders :flipoff2:

As soon as I'm feeling better, I'll go back to wearing the labcoat with the "Steal your face" on the back! For now, it's plain white!

Batteries, cables and connections. Back cylinders are the end the line. Longest distance from the coil. Most voltage drop. As far as ignition system. This with long injector duration.

But once again, is sounds like this is more then a cold weather problem. So it may be your original "theory"

Batteries, cables and connections. Back cylinders are the end the line. Longest distance from the coil. Most voltage drop. As far as ignition system. This with long injector duration.

But once again, is sounds like this is more then a cold weather problem. So it may be your original "theory"

What? The coil packs are across the back of the engine-this is a GEMS engine. Similarly, the injector harness begins at the back of the engine-they'd be shortest as well.

I'm not buying it. And you're worried about what I'm breathing with the Salamander heating the shop!

Al right there Greg Brady. Some are just to hard headed and stubborn to learn something that might damage their high opinion of themselves. Of course Gems ignition is different from what I was describing. So you can hold your head high on that one. But the votage drop scenario still applies. Especially to the injection-injectors.

Its hard to re-edumacate an arsonist but I live for challenges.

JP

Poke, poke.

Stir, stir. :stirthepot:

(we need a "Poke the bees nest" smilie!)

Greg Brady?

I've always more fancied myself Linus Pauling or G. N. Lewis.

Batteries, cables and connections. Back cylinders are the end the line. Longest distance from the coil. Most voltage drop. As far as ignition system. This with long injector duration.

But once again, is sounds like this is more then a cold weather problem. So it may be your original "theory"

as well as the fact that you are talking about voltage drop difference between maybe a foot of wire...unless the wire were broken or severely corroded it would be virtually nothing.

as well as the fact that you are talking about voltage drop difference between maybe a foot of wire...unless the wire were broken or severely corroded it would be virtually nothing.

Ooh, ooh, Spork is standing on Superman's cape!:flipoff2:

Ok,

I cleared the fuel out of the cyl's, cleaned up the plugs, made new +, - cables and put in the starter.

Cranked for about 10 seconds and flooded the damned thing again!


The FSM that I got downloaded does not show the procedure for testing the Fuel Injectors. Just says that the injectors should only drop 2 drops of fuel per minute!

Pull the wires and check for spark with an extra set of plugs installed in the wires that are grounded to the engine block. Have someone else crank and watch the spark and its intensity.

You can OHM check the individual injectors and compare them to each other as a start on that path.

Disconnect the connector to the coils and spray with contact cleaner. Check its ground to the engine.

Spork has even less of a clue then you PT.

Does the battery have a good charge? And does the starter seem to be turning the engine at a good rpm for starting? Or is it sluggish?

Try a labcoat if you think it will help.

JP

Give up now and part it out.

Ok, I'll bite ... JP - are you simply checking the individual injectors for continuity, or is there a specified resistance range that should be expected?

#2 - even if the individual injector delivers appropriate resistance measurement, isn't there a mechanical issue possible with ... what do we call those parts, "pintle & seat" that could result in significant leakage even if resistance within range?

Gotta tell ya', I'm on on board with the leaky injector bit here ... the thing was slow to start after sitting before this situation came about, no?

Having said that, I agree that you need to start with a healthy start / ignition system too. new cables (done) , known good battery, HT leads, coil & plugs too just for good measure.

Yeah, yeah, I know ... back to the bean counting and leave the diagnosis to you guys :)

The injectors should show about 16 ohms resistance. If either open circuit or any significant deviation is found, it's grounds for concern. FWIW, I've seen injectors either leak like sieves, or be completely clogged yet they were electrically fine.

The method for checking for leaks was in the older FSMs and it showed separating the fuel rail from the intake and turning the fuel pump on.

Before taking that step, once you get it unflooded, when you try to start it, hold the throttle open and crank it. If it starts and runs fine once started, we have presumptive proof of leaking injectors being our problem.

Now that you've replaced the battery cables and presumably charged the battery, we can rule out some phenomenal widening of injector pulse width being the cause and again, brute-force traditional mechanical troubleshooting solving the problem, rather than searching for an obscure computer-driven issue. Damned kids these days always think it's the computer!

The injectors should show about 16 ohms resistance. If either open circuit or any significant deviation is found, it's grounds for concern. FWIW, I've seen injectors either leak like sieves, or be completely clogged yet they were electrically fine.


Exactly my point ... now we know what scale to set out VOM to ... presuming that I'm not the last human using an analog VOM :smokin:

Now that you've replaced the battery cables and presumably charged the battery, we can rule out some phenomenal widening of injector pulse width being the cause and again, brute-force traditional mechanical troubleshooting solving the problem, rather than searching for an obscure computer-driven issue. Damned kids these days always think it's the computer!


Oh please, electrickery has always been a big sock for you.

Never said it was the computer. Its a cold weather phenomenon. Weak battery and or cables, connections. Drops the battery voltage below 9v while cranking. Often the battery voltage by the time it reaches the computer and injector drivers can be as low as 5v. Its like that cheap harbor freight tool you bought. Motors or solenoids do not like to operate cold with low voltage. So when the injectors open they sluggishly will not close.

All through the 90's we had vehicles with poorly maintained charging systems towed into the dealership with just this problem. So while Land Rovers have a known weakness with their injectors, this time of year it is important not to overlook other common factors that may come into play. If the vehicle is sitting in the garage while this is happening then it could rule out this scenario. If the battery, cables and connections are in good order now it could rule out this scenario. Other things can rule it out as well. But be aware Cold weather will wreak havoc on a weak electrical system that seemed fine in the warmer climate.

I bring up an OHM test for the injectors because it is an easy first step to take. And an easy way to verify a suspect. Of course it will not rule it out completely. If the OHM test does not reveal it then the fuel rail removed with the fuel pump hotwired for a while and watching for drips test would be a logical step. The injectors will have to be removed anyway with your jump the gun approach. May as well see if it is money well spent first.

I could go on with my method for the repair but at some point I am going to feel like clocking in on the job and will not have patience to explain all the details to the junior techncians. Unless they wanna pay also.
:flipoff2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sinister:
Is the SRS light on? Yes, it's germain to the issue at hand. Er, did it come one during this debacle would be more appropriate a question.

Pendy:
Electrickery has been a big sock for me since when? I was learning Ohm's law in 1975! You were what, ten?

I bring up an OHM test for the injectors because it is an easy first step to take. And an easy way to verify a suspect. Of course it will not rule it out completely. If the OHM test does not reveal it then the fuel rail removed with the fuel pump hotwired for a while and watching for drips test would be a logical step. The injectors will have to be removed anyway with your jump the gun approach. May as well see if it is money well spent first.


If we had a dead cylinder, testing the resistance of the injector coil might make sense, but we suspect a leaking injector in this case. It is highly unlikely that testing the resistance would reveal which injector is leaking-unless you have some voodoo anti-scientific reason for why this would be so.:flipoff2:

This is like reading the National Enquirer of Land Rover diagnosis!

So as to not "Jump the gun", let's run a fuel pressure test and look for leakdown rates! I strongly suspect we're gonna find our pressure goes away pretty darned quickly.

I am heading back out to do a pressure test before attempting the drip test.

The battery is in good condition and fully charged.


I have a sweet-clip-on-deal that tests for spark and all wired fired fine.

SRS light?

Ooh, ooh, Spork is standing on Superman's cape!:flipoff2:

that may be...i'm certainly no land rover or engine management expert, but i did go to school for electrical engineering for three years...i know one or two things.

If we had a dead cylinder, testing the resistance of the injector coil might make sense, but we suspect a leaking injector in this case. "This is simply wrong"--------It is highly unlikely that testing the resistance would reveal which injector is leaking----------unless you have some voodoo anti-scientific reason for why this would be so.:flipoff2:

This is like reading the National Enquirer of Land Rover diagnosis!

So as to not "Jump the gun", let's run a fuel pressure test and look for leakdown rates! I strongly suspect we're gonna find our pressure goes away pretty darned quickly.

Maybe when you get ready to take the LT1 ASE test you can gleam something from the cliffnote book before you take the test. Then you can step up to the "National Enquirer" status.

Bad windings on injectors give drivability problems and rich running problems as well. More of a problem on GM injectors. You can call it Vodoo or whatever you want. People jump to these type conclusions/argumnets when they lack understanding or experience. The only thing anti-scientific about anything I am trying to help you understand here is the lack of a long winded detailed account of the process from start to finish. I suppose you need to speed read it in a book somewhere so you can claim the knowledge as your own. Frankly I tend to jump past a few steps and rely on experience I have gleamed from the 20 plus years I have been doing this.

I like to fight fire with dynamite. Are you on fire yet?

So as to not "Jump the gun", let's run a fuel pressure test and look for leakdown rates! I strongly suspect we're gonna find our pressure goes away pretty darned quickly.


Now you are showing some common sense. Luckily there is easy way to test fuel pressure on this Disco.

Isn't that a better approach then to just throw some injectors at it? In a brutal fashion.

No SRS light.

The flooding problem?


Frucking FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR DUMPING FUEL INTO THE INTAKE MANIFOLD VIA VACUUM HOSE!

Rear cyl's flooded due to being closest to vacuum line:bawling:


Whenever I find a fuel pressure regulator(No one local has a listing for one, will a universal unit work???), I will still run the drip test since I have the damned thing apart.

Yep, we've talked about that one before here. Glad you found it without ordering injectors first. I'd just replace the regulator without doing the drip test. Unless you think you need to reseal the injectors to the manifold for some reason. Drive it for a while and maybe check plugs next oil change.


Should have been easier to steer you that direction if we had not been butting heads. Since the rear most cylinders were the rich ones.

All in a days fun:grinpimp:

Oh you got it apart. Guess you get to reseal it:bounce2:

Reseal? Whats involved with that? Wetting the 2 sides with black RTV and sticking them together?

I did notice that there were no gaskets and the upper plenum was a pita to remove. Damned near broke the mofo prying it off.

Oh, I thought you pulled the injector rail. Thought you might get new O-rings for the injectors to seal against the manifold. There is a spot front passenger side of the manifold. I put a socket on the manifold and use a heel bar afainst it to raise the middle manifold up. It can be a tight bugger. You could stick a BB in the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator until your new one shows up.

I love the fact that this guy figured this out himself while you guys where busy flailing away on "who has the most dust on his tool".

Must have been the entertainment ......put his mind at ease and helped him think clearly. :D

First off, internet diagnosis is definitely doing it with both hands tied behind your back and your eyes closed (and a two-year-old screaming in your ear).

The SRS light being off indicates that battery voltage never fell low enough for Pendy's reason to have been even a contender.

Pendy:
I took and passed my first NIASE test in 1981. If 20 years is all you have, so be it :flipoff2:

So.....

I can run the FPR with the vacuum line blocked off and she could start driving it again?

The damned things are $170! I would have felt better buying the 8 injectors for $199.



So no one has found a cheap solution for this problem yet?

Call Will Tillery for a used one! roverguy.com

First off, internet diagnosis is definitely doing it with both hands tied behind your back and your eyes closed.

The SRS light being off indicates that battery voltage never fell low enough for Pendy's reason to have been even a contender. :D You still miss the point. This time of year especially-always start with Batteries, cables and connections. Or risk chasing your tail around on a ghost hunt. I recommend "Teslite" to voltage drop test main cables and connections. Very quick and thorough.:D

Pendy:
I took and passed my first NIASE test in 1981. If 20 years is all you have, so be it :flipoff2: Sorry I was to busy with keg parties and chicks back then geek.


I've been working on these trucks for 20 plus years -gary-
I only brought up ASE tests because that's all you pseudo intellectuals can understand. The cliff notes of the test I mentioned might have given you the insight you need to understand my point. I really have no respect for the test taker until he shows me he can do the job as well. Can you? :flipoff2:

Like I said before I like to fight fire with dynamite. If PT wants to come on here all arrogant like he's the Queens Bee. I'll be glad to pull the carpet out from under him. It's really to easy.
But if a fellow PBB'er comes here with a level head and show some initiative I'll share what I know without giving any grief. And expect the same of others. I am sure we all stand to learn something in the process. Isn't that why we are here?
With 6000 plus posts here and gawd knows how many elsewhere PT is spending more time promoting his "skills' then he is trying to improve them. So go get heat in your garage PT and get some more practice in if you really think that's what its all about.:shaking:

Its to bad sinister had to fix the truck so quickly we could have drug this out for a couple more days. FPR and bad charcoal canister vavles other reasons for his trucks symtoms. Been talked about here before so a little searching might help someone else find thier culprit if they don't want to deal with all the attitoode----

Pendy:
It could not have been the low cranking voltage issue. If it had been, it would have also thrown a code for the SRS. Apparently, YOUR experience didn't tell you to look for this as an indicator of what was happening during cranking!

If we hadn't been misled looking for sone anomalous problem that might have occurred, we might have had a chance to find what's wrong.

As it turned out, it was something simple, something that would have been found if we hadn't been arguing over something that happens far less often than injectors leaking or perforated diaphragms on pressure regulators. The same tests one would run to find a leaking injector would probably have led us to a failed pressure regulator.

Keg parties when you were 13 or 14?

81' would have been my second year of high school-old timer. So I was well versed in the keg party. And back then any extra testing outside of school was for the geeks. Other then a drivers/motorcycle license.:flipoff2:

If a guy burns up a starter trying to start his flooded vehicle. I'm gonna beg to check Batteries, cables and connections. The way Landrover runs its ground cable to the frame/body and then to the engine it always leaves an oppurtunity for ground problems. And simply put you were the one arguing to skip this process.:shaking:

You just don't get it still.

And a fuel pressure test would have been next. :grinpimp:

Anyway you look at it, your arguing that it was something other than fuel supply system forced everyone to either defend their decisions, or sent them barking up the wrong tree.

Had we not been arguing with you over something obscure, we would have been doing things like checking fuel pressure-a critical part of fuel system diagnosis.

If you could see past your ego, you'd see the truth was that it was a fuel system issue and not some rarified injector pulse widening.

It's almost always something basic that one would have learned in their first power mechanics class and not something computer-related. Once again, it goes back to traditional brute force troubleshooting and not looking for once in a lifetime computer issues. In my experience, particularly with Lucas EMS, if battery voltage falls low enough, the damned things don't run!

Before we had the argument you would not even acknowledge the idea of pulse widening with a large voltage drop. I see you have backed off that stance and rely on the SRS light to tell you if someone is keeping the charging system maintained. You still don't get it. I offered a few extra steps to take before diving into replacing fuel injectors errrantly. I would not have argued against taking a fuel pressure test initially. Fact is you lashed out at me and I was simply defending myself against your ego. And my right to take a different approach based on the information he provided and the tempuratures this time of year. Just a few extra steps and a chance to learn and discuss things from a different approach. PT PT PT, you should stick to furiously typing about yourself. It what you do best.

Oh yeah forgot, Peace.

fellas in the woman section of your fav drug store you will find


midol get some

Ok...

I got the thing started with a brand new $130 Lucas FPR and it runs...

LIKE CRAP!!

It ran fine for 30 minutes then the service engine light came on and it started hesitating and sputtering.

I got 307, 305 & 1316 codes with my cheapo code reader.

Fuel pressure is at 40 when idling, sprayed carb cleaner all around the intake and vacuum lines with no effect. Wires are 6mos old along with the NGK plugs.:shaking:

You did change your oil, didn't you?

I'll have to admit I have learned a lot from these treads. The combined knowledge here is unmatched on the internet.

I may have a thin skin but I don't see the need to be so abrasive in these exchanges. I understand that many of you have real-life relationships beyond this venue and I respect that. Many of these threads relate to personal events that most of us have no knowledge of.

I have been a frequent visitor to this board over the past year primarily because it has been an open forum for real life solutions to common problems as well as a wonderful source of non-traditional approaches to highly modified Land Rovers.

I realize as a newbie I am out of line with these comments but I implore you to limit your sand box issues to .... the sand box.

Please keep the technical and real life experiences coming. We as viewers can sort out its worth .

My Dad Did Not Beat Up Your Dad!!

I understand that many of you have real-life relationships beyond this venue and I respect that. Many of these threads relate to personal events that most of us have no knowledge of.

I realize as a newbie I am out of line with these comments but I implore you to limit your sand box issues to .... the sand box.

for the most part, i don't think this comes down to personal relationships between anyone here. obviously when you have numerous individuals who have a long history of diagnostics, troubleshooting, and repair on a certain mark they are right 100% of the time....that's just how things go. people get easily worked up about stuff they are very knowledgeable about. and in some cases here, people are just giving others a hard time, there is rarely any real animosity. also, you probably aren't going to make any friends by coming in here and telling people how they should behave. if you haven't learned yet, that isn't how pirate works.

P.S. i'm not one of the individuals who knows anything about rovers, i'm just here to be abrasive.:flipoff2:

What were you thinking, this IS the sand box!

And most Pirates are not capable of real-life relationships. :grinpimp:

Case in point--I

The battery cable at the starter is connected isn't. It went to one of the starter bolts. That is were I was trying to lead you earlier with the annoying batteries, cables connections.

Those are all misfire and excessive emision codes (no kidding eh?)

I'd take a look at the crank speed sensor......loose wire or connection.

Had several of these lately and no fault description indicated. Takes 2 min to check.

Look at your coil-pak connections. Maybe you knocked something FUBAR while messing with the other stuff...

Hey....it's happened to me...

for the most part, i don't think this comes down to personal relationships between anyone here. obviously when you have numerous individuals who have a long history of diagnostics, troubleshooting, and repair on a certain mark they are right 100% of the time....that's just how things go. people get easily worked up about stuff they are very knowledgeable about. and in some cases here, people are just giving others a hard time, there is rarely any real animosity. also, you probably aren't going to make any friends by coming in here and telling people how they should behave. if you haven't learned yet, that isn't how pirate works.

P.S. i'm not one of the individuals who knows anything about rovers, i'm just here to be abrasive.:flipoff2:

Spork;

Your points are well taken and I agree. If I can't tell the difference between between gentle ribbing and an insurrection then that's due to my limitations. Thanks for the gentle reproof.

Just keep the techincal information flowing and I'll sort out the gems from the....other stuff.

Yes, I did change the oil and filter.

I went and resealed the intake thinking that I had screwed it up but there is still no change.

It idles nice and starts up fine, fuel pressure is at 32 when idling.
New parts list:
Fuel Filter
FPR
Plugs
Wire
ECT - Engine is still throwing this "ECT warm up fault" code

It stumbles and hesitates when in gear/load, idle goes from 700 down to 300 and it starts chugging bad. When going up a slight incline in the neighborhood, it 'caughs' and backfires.

Did you switch a fuel injector with the tempurature sensor connection?

No. I never disconnected any of the Fuel Injectors.

So you replaced the coolant sensor? Did you check the fuel temp sensor? Might be time to buy a book and OHM check the sensors. I think there is a haynes Disco book available. Is the connector for the ETC damaged? Might need to do a continuity test of the wirirng from the connnector to the ECU.

Sounds like you are having fun anyway!

I stole the battery out of it for a week so I can take my rig snow wheeling...


Put it back in this morning to check it out again.

It started right up and idled fine.

I put it in gear to drive it into the driveway and it started bucking around as soon as I shifted into drive.

I visually checked all connections and checked for spark from all wires.

Ran another code check and got.

300 - misfires
303 - cyl 3 misfire
138 - 02 sensor?
1187 - 02 sensor code?
1193 - o2?

Would bad o2 sensors cause the problem that I am describing? There is a o2 sensor on the passengerside, after the cat, that looks suspect. There is a bunch of electrical tape wrapped around the wires inbetween the connector and sensor. I tried to pull the sensor but it appears that the genious that replaced the cat, WELDED the sensor to the bung. So I have to pull the fawking y-pipe to grind out the weld..... feh

I downloaded and printed the manual that someone here pointed me in the direction of but it does not have the test values of the electronics.

I may have a O2 sensor you can use to check out your theory. Before or after the cat?

Oh you said after------ Leave it welded on and try this-------------

Or try the o2 simulator

o2simulator.com

I did see a thread that mentioned the o2 sensor simulators.

Here is what I was looking at:
http://www.o2simulator.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_9&products_id=10&number_of_uploads=0

Its a universal o2 simulator that replaces the back 2 sensors.

Has anyone actually tried it on Land Rovers? Experience?

It works.

did you check the crank speed sensor yet?

No, I have not.

But I will when I get home later today.

According to online searching, it does sound like that could well be the problem.

you will not find it online....it's on the drivers side rear of block looking at the flex plate. It has to agree with the cam sensor which is on the front of the motor...and is sometimes an issue, but I've had a bunch of the crank sensor issues in lately. Seem to loosen up, one even damaged the flex plate, and destroyed the sensor.

If you put good sensors after the cats and just do not insert them in the bungs (ie leave in open air) you will get no codes.

And, yes, o2 sensors will cause this.

Its been snowing again, so I stole my battery back:laughing:

I have not had a chance to check the crank sensor.

Good news!

The website link I posted for the o2 sensor simulators does not make a specific simulator for our Rovers', so I am gonna be the guinea pig for plug & play sensors:flipoff2:.

So if you check the crank sensor-------be sure to remove it and turn the engine over by hand while watching the sensor tabs on the flywheel. To check for broken or bent/ missing tabs. Don't just remove it and look in there quickly.

JP

The crank sensor was loose!!

The connection and wires were fine. It still has the wire loom and brown/green wires intact.

Anyone know the test procedure for this thing?

I did not even have to use a wrench to remove it and it wiggled when touched:laughing:.

As far as checking the flywheel, I dont think I can without pulling the y pipe?

I cleaned up the Crank Sensor and re-installed it.

It didnt make a difference and I am still getting the o2 Sensor, excessive emission codes.

Given what this sensor does, I am tempted to buy a new one to try.



I dont know HTF you guys can work on these things. I was going to pull the y pipe so I can get ready to install some 02 sensors. Thepassenger side manifold mount is a pita to remove and I dont know if I can even disconnect the first 2 o2 sensors:shaking:

I got the ypipe pulled and found that there are 2 o2 sensors that are damaged. I only managed to break one stud on the manifold and another at the connection to the tail pipe...

The sensor that I was suspected appears to have had the wires cut then electrical taped back together! It only took a massage with the cut off wheel to remove the weld:mr-t: But the sensor itself broke in half when I was using the breaker bar. They all are very dirty/sooty.

The other sensor is beat up! I don't know wtf happened but it is dented badly in 3 places.

Just waiting on Will Tillery to return my call for some sensors.

If Will does not have 2 for you, put two up front and use the o2sensor.com setup for the rear sensors maybe. I know I have one, but prolly not two I can spare.

Maybe you need a two post lift at home? :flipoff2:They are easier to work on when you are not crawling around underneath em' You should have been able to see the flywheel notches with a good flashlight.

Good Luck!

Crawling around underneath really did suck.

I am going to order the front 2 and use the o2 sim kit for the back 2.

While I have it all apart, I am wondering about the condition of the cats. Or thinking of removing them altogether since all that splattered on excuse of weld seems to be rusting through:laughing:

Weld in come CATCO cats?

You can unplug the fawkin o2 sensors and the thing should run better than you have described. I would suggest that you take a better look at that crank speed sensor. You may need to re flash the ECU at some point to get it to co-operate.

...and replace the o2's and other damaged shit.

HTF do we work on these things.....we get used to it I guess, but I ask myself why on a daily basis.

Hi guys, Newbie to this forum but not to LR's:)

Getting back to the original problem of fuel filled cylinders, have you checked the fuel pressure reg? a failed or perforated diaphragm in the pressure reg will send fuel at high pressure down the vacuum pipe into the plenum chamber and down the ram pipes of the two rearmost cylinders. The huge amounts of fuel present consequently send the O2 sensors crazy.

I had this problem last year on my 3.9, there was so much fuel it hydraulic'd the motor and broke the nose off the starter

easiest way to check is to pull the vac pipe off the plenum chamber and put the end in a bottle or pot and get someone to switch on the ignition while you watch, any fuel coming out the vac pipe is obviously bad news.

HTH
Pete.:smokin:

Did you read the thread?:laughing:

The new crank sensor and o2 sim kit came in today.

Just waiting on a package from Will T.

Yeah i read the thread. Why?

as far as i can tell, a few things have been tried and no definite progress has yet been made for certain, so i thought i'd try and contribute. In my experience damaged O2 sensors on these engines can continue to work fine. As someone has already said - these engines trigger all 8 injectors at once, so fuel in just two cylinders seems unlikely to me to be the injectors. My own experience with fuel in the rearmost two cylinders points to the fuel pressure reg - no-one had mentioned it so it thought it was worth mentioning for the time it takes to check it.

either way - hope you get it sorted.

Pete.
Land Rover Technician.

That was the problem and I put in a new FPR, now I am having really bad drivability problems. I am getting new o2 sensors and using a o2 sim kit to hopefully fix the problem.

Now please report to my CPS ID thread.:p

:homer: Doh, ok i guess i missed the FPR bit wherever it was...


As for your CPS prob, PM me your vin. no and i can check it out. It'll be tomorrow as it's 0030hrs here an' i need some sleep!

Just thought I would post pics of what I am dealing with.

Here is the one cat that that has been replaced and the quality weld job that caught the sensor in a few spots.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/817/catweldqo4.jpg

Here are the wires from that bung pictured above.
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/9647/hackedo2wireskx1.jpg


Here is the o2sim.com universal dual output simulator.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1985/o2simwd5.jpg

The Rover-Guy came through with the o2 sensors and I finally got the correct CPS.

Reconnecting the Front 2 o2 sensors was a PITFA!!!!!!!!!!!!


I just have some bolts to tighten and a battery to borrow before checking what it does now.

I got everything back together and started it up today.

It ran rough just like before with no change. Then I cleared the fault codes and it started running a whole lot better!

Smooth idle at 700is RPMs.

No stumbling when put into gear but it does give an occasional POP!

I drove it around the neighborhood then 3 miles on the highway.
It pulled fine, save for the occasional popping. It revved to 3k before shifting and I had to pull off the gas pedal to help it shift.

I got a 1316 and 306 code when checking it again.