ok in the toyota truck/4runner section i found a thread that talked about the correlation between the rear shackle length and the antiwrap bar shackle length. It also mentioned matching the angles between the too? It was all related to binding etc. So are any of you using this logic on your rig?

Thx.

ok in the toyota truck/4runner section i found a thread that talked about the correlation between the rear shackle length and the antiwrap bar shackle length. It also mentioned matching the angles between the too? It was all related to binding etc. So are any of you using this logic on your rig?

Thx.

I don't think it's that complicated. If the shackle on the front of the track bar will allow the axle to move back fully when the springs are compressed then you're ok. Why would the angle matter?

I don’t think that matters much for binding. As long as the shackle can cover the same range and you have enough twist. I used a heim with high misalignment spacers, and have no binding problems.
I made mine to approximately follow the same angle as the drive shaft, and the mount (shackle end) is very close to the same height and distance from the rear axle as the rear output flange. My thinking was that as the suspension cycled, the anti wrap, and drive shaft would swing on the same arc. In retrospect, I think the anti wrap shackle end could stand to mount farther forward. That way when the wrap bar counters the rotation of the tires, it’s pushing up more in the middle of the frame, not biased towards the rear. With it biased towards the rear I think it can cause the rear to hop on climbs. Any thoughts on this??? I’m making this up as I go, but I’m thinking too short and too steep of an anti wrap can work almost like a link suspension with too much antisquat. When the tires have traction the axle assy tries to rotate the opposite direction of the tires, pushing the shackle end up, helping to jack up the rear suspension. As soon as you loose traction, the rear falls, causing the rear to bounce.

I don’t think that matters much for binding. As long as the shackle can cover the same range and you have enough twist. I used a heim with high misalignment spacers, and have no binding problems.
I made mine to approximately follow the same angle as the drive shaft, and the mount (shackle end) is very close to the same height and distance from the rear axle as the rear output flange. My thinking was that as the suspension cycled, the anti wrap, and drive shaft would swing on the same arc. In retrospect, I think the anti wrap shackle end could stand to mount farther forward. That way when the wrap bar counters the rotation of the tires, it’s pushing up more in the middle of the frame, not biased towards the rear. With it biased towards the rear I think it can cause the rear to hop on climbs. Any thoughts on this??? I’m making this up as I go, but I’m thinking too short and too steep of an anti wrap can work almost like a link suspension with too much antisquat. When the tires have traction the axle assy tries to rotate the opposite direction of the tires, pushing the shackle end up, helping to jack up the rear suspension. As soon as you loose traction, the rear falls, causing the rear to bounce.

That kind of thinking hurts my head.:homer:

I have very little hop or axle wrap with mine. It's angle is very close to that of the driveshaft and the shackle is mounted so the trac bar is on top of the heim link. There is no binding during articulation.

Thanks for the feedback. I figured 6" shackles on a traction bar is a little much. Hopefully I can finish the traction bar up now.

I run mine exactly as you said...same angle same length shackle, works beautifully. Its definetly not an exact science so do what fits.

I prefer not to complicate things with the shackle on the front of the track bar. My track bar has no shackle at the front and worked great through last season. The jonny joints are beefy too. Hobie is also running the TG design. The tape measure is reading 45".

http://www.trail-gear.com/bbs/wrap4.jpg

http://www.trail-gear.com/bbs/wrap5.jpg

Hobie's rig will flat out flex mine, handles great, and it uses the TG trac bar. It did rip off the housing last ride but that had nothing to do with the quality of the TG bar. :D He is also using the 5" TG springs so it has to move even more than mine during articulation. I'll be going to TG 5" springs soon so we'll see how both designs work on the same springs.

I'll be going to TG 5" springs soon so we'll see how both designs work on the same springs.


The TG 5" springs work great! I have zero complaints on mine.

I like the TG anti wrap kit too! Looks very well done.

After busting a R&P, and rear output on a bad bounce, I'm trying to come up with ways to eliminate or at least cut down on bouncing. When I had the Iroks it was terrible. On Krawlers it's not bad, but I'm just trying to figure out how to get no bounce. Maybe a suck down winch is the real answer.

Maybe a suck down winch is the real answer.

That's the key!

I prefer not to complicate things with the shackle on the front of the track bar. My track bar has no shackle at the front and worked great through last season. The jonny joints are beefy too. Hobie is also running the TG design. The tape measure is reading 45".

http://www.trail-gear.com/bbs/wrap4.jpg

http://www.trail-gear.com/bbs/wrap5.jpg

Matt-

Is your design that you sell a slip and twist type of traction bar?

Thanks,
Tim

That's the key!

I have front and rear winches on #48 and am adding them to #10.

I prefer not to complicate things with the shackle on the front of the track bar. My track bar has no shackle at the front and worked great through last season. The jonny joints are beefy too. Hobie is also running the TG design. The tape measure is reading 45".

http://www.trail-gear.com/bbs/wrap4.jpg

http://www.trail-gear.com/bbs/wrap5.jpg

Matt how much Up travel do you allow for with your shocks on the rear?

Basically you want your spring to travel all the way to flat without any limitations. This would be the same for sag. Keep in mind my springs are modified and will not last more than a season the way there setup now. The spring rate is extremely soft and setup for competition only, not for trail riding.

If I were you I would mount my shocks last. You will want to cycle the suspension completely and take measurements to make sure that your final shock location does not limit travel. Don't forget that your springs, if they are new will settle a lot.

Matt

I am running All pro 3" buggy springs. I have not experienced enough wrap to make me build the trac bar. I already have all the parts in stock for the TG trac bar build.
Am I missing something? Or did I get Lucky?
After 3 propane tanks of abuse I think the springs are broken in.

Build one you will feel the difference...

I am running All pro 3" buggy springs. I have not experienced enough wrap to make me build the trac bar. I already have all the parts in stock for the TG trac bar build.
Am I missing something? Or did I get Lucky?
After 3 propane tanks of abuse I think the springs are broken in.

That's weird I had mad rear axle wrap with my 3" All Poop's. Undrivable. I will say that I like the rear 3" APs better than the fronts. I just don't get enough flex or uptravel from the fronts.

I am running All pro 3" buggy springs. I have not experienced enough wrap to make me build the trac bar....Am I missing something?...

Ya, sounds like you're missing all the BIG rock lines....j/k!

I run the same AP 3" Buggy springs and love the massive flex.
But I do have SEVERE wrap when doing steep lines.
I've got to admit I still need an Anti-wrap Bar...I've just been too busy and lazy to make one.

I have all due intentions to make one very similar to Matt's. I believe it's one of the best designs for an F-Toy.

Build with a shackle, 3" long is enough. The slip/twist design is terrible. If you think about it. the bar is trying to be bent (upward force from axle trying to turn) and rotate, AND move in/out at the same time. We tried one (little faster to build the morning before leaving for a comp) Threw it in the trash when we got back. Went to a shackle design (what we've always run) and its MUCH smoother, quieter, dirt doesnt matter, etc.

Does anybody pre-load their anti-wrap bar?? if so how much? When I stand on the gas I feel the bar abruptly load up.

Dont have a f-toy. but my trac bar is a bit preload. seems like theres less axle wrap now