My friend just picked up a T-18 from FNJEEP for 750. good/bad?

The guy says you can use the 3sp bell housing.

Now he needs a 400 plus dollar adapter to go to the d300.. or would you keep the D20 on it? I'd prefer the 300 but for the adapter price, Yikes>>>

Anything else we need to look at, conversion suggestions?

I'ts all going into a late 70's CJ with a fresh 6 CYL with the orignal 3sp and d300. Then slapping scout II rear and wagoneer front axle.

Thanks

Chris Minerich

If you were lucky enough to find a 1980 Scout Dana 300 from a manual trans, you could bolt it to your T-18/Dana 20 adapter, other than that, looks like you're spending money.

WHAT??? I hope that's a typo, $750 and it's not even a Jeep T-18? Mine was $60 bucks and that's a typical deal if you pick your junkyard wisely.
Yes you can use the T-150 or T-176 bellhousing. You need a special pilot bushing, adapter for whichever tcase you like more (short shaft 300) ;) and rework the trans mount a bit to clear the adapter.
But $750?? :shaking: That's just rude.

My friend just picked up a T-18 from FNJEEP for 750. good/bad? Damn...I got mine and MADE money from a '79 CJ.

The guy says you can use the 3sp bell housing. Bolted right to my 304 'coulda used my old bell housing and machined it

Now he needs a 400 plus dollar adapter to go to the d300.. or would you keep the D20 on it? I'd prefer the 300 but for the adapter price, Yikes>>> yep, this was the BIG bummer to the whole thing...I run the d20 'cause I'm cheap :rolleyes:

Anything else we need to look at, conversion suggestions? find what I did...

I'ts all going into a late 70's CJ with a fresh 6 CYL with the orignal 3sp and d300with a d300???. Then slapping scout II rear and wagoneer front axle.

Thanks


Best of luck!!!

Was that a CJ T-18 or a FSJ T-18? If CJ, I'd say he paid top dollar, but I've heard of them going for more. If it's a FSJ T-18, he got screwed. That guy at FNJeep screwed me on a deal a few years ago, and I haven't darkened his door since. I now refer to him as the FN guy at FN Jeep. :flipoff:

If it were me, I'd run the D20. If he wants lower gears, find a Bronco D20 and swap the gears out. That will get him to nearly the low range that the D300 has. If he's just gotta have the D300, sell that T-18, get a Ford T-18 for $50-$100 and buy the adapter. BTW, the D300 didn't come out until 1980 and was never behind any 3 speed, so your friends 70s CJ should have a D20 rather than a D300.

I got my T-18 from an '80 Ford Bronco out of the local pick-n-pull for $130 incl. tax. Even with the rebuild kit and adapter plate with mainshaft for the D20 set-up, I'll be far below the $750 mark. Is your CJ a 5 or 7? I've got a 5, so running a typical D300 is a bit difficult due to driveshaft lengths. I'm saving right now for the adapter plate/mainshaft kit from Novak. If you have any questions, I've found them to be very helpful and very professional thus far. Good Luck...
While I'm at this, if anyone knows of a cheaper way to get a hold of a mainshaft and adapter plate, let us know...:D

BTW, from what I understand (I could be wrong...), Novak's adapters for both the D20 and the D300 clock the cases upward yielding better ground clearances as opposed to the AA kits.

See what the deal was I told Thomas from FNjeep that I would come pick up the tranny. He told me 575 with the bell housing.. I couldn't make it with my friend to pick it up since I had a job interview. Well he went up there and slammed him with 750... So hopefully I can make a deal with Thomas...

I didn't look under Kyles CJ5 to see if it was a d20 or 300.. I automaticly supposed it was a 300.. so correct me if I am wrong...

So if it is a D20 then it will bolt up eh?

I appreciate your help.. BTW.. know where I can get prefab spring hangers for YJ springs? I am doing to swap YJS on to it for him with D44s and SPOA... If I have to I can build them but it might be cheaper to by pre-fabs.

We were thinking of 4.56's or 4.88's for 35's.. any suggestions?

This poor guy LOL... I am trying to do good for him...

Know anyone who would want a tranny or how much it is worth out of a dodge powerwagon? It is a 4 speed with the alluminum top with a granny first, made for a divorced 205.

Thanks

Chris :rasta: Minerich

I'd seriously consider taking the tranny back for a refund. you can do a lot better than that without trying.

and from what I remember, the spring hangers on the CJ will hold a YJ spring, but you need to use the eye bushings for a CJ front spring on them.

Dude, you got ripped off. Did you say it was a Ford or Jeep T18? There's a huge difference in gears.

I'd be more than willing to sell you my spare Ford T18 with 6.3 1st gear for less than $750.

Originally posted by TJBob
Dude, you got ripped off. Did you say it was a Ford or Jeep T18? There's a huge difference in gears.

I'd be more than willing to sell you my spare Ford T18 with 6.3 1st gear for less than $750.

What's the huge difference in gears? '77-'79 CJ t-18s were 6.32:1. Earlier ones were the 4:1 first.

I agree with Sundowner take it back. They are out there much cheaper than $750.

It was my understanding that all jeep T18's were geared to 4.02 1st gear and only the Ford T18a's were 6.32. I have been wrong before, so I may be wrong, but that's what I had thought.

Bob

t18a was an option in 77/78 (I think)

what these guys said.

For that kind of cash, it better have a been recently rebuilt (like last week) and have the Dana 300 adapter attached.

My 18a came from a '79 6cyl. CJ-7. I got the whole think (rusty as hell) for $240. Sold the engine to a passer by for $75, Hard Top for $250. Used the radiator, clutch linkage, and some other stuff on another CJ. Still have to sell a ton of other stuff on it.

Basically I got a free granny tranny that bolted right up to my 304 with zero issues except driveshafts.

got my T18a for $500 with free attached D20 and FSJ on 38's:D

Again man, you're bud got RIPPED HARD. I picked up a T18 w/ attached 20, a 44 and a 60 out of a J truck for 750.00. All of it.

"It was my understanding that all jeep T18's were geared to 4.02 1st gear and only the Ford T18a's were 6.32. I have been wrong before, so I may be wrong, but that's what I had thought. "

Nope. Not ALL. The key is T18a. Mine's got 6.32:1 low and we also pulled one from a Cherokee for my bud, same thing. And not all Ford 18's are 6.32 either. Usually, the 1/2 ton's had the 18's and the 3/4 tons had the 18a.

You can order t-18s from several different supplires and get them with the adaptor of choice for about 450. try HICKS 4x4

Well we got to looking at the tranny closer and the output splines look like they are worn quite a bit on one side. I dont' know if they are supposed to be like this but I am including a couple pictures. Not the best but my dig cam was free :smokin:

Also the input shaft has a little play in it. That can't be good at all.

$750 :mad3: :nuke:

I guess the only good thing is the 6.29 first gear

http://home.off-road.com/~shadow/t18/t18-1.jpg
http://home.off-road.com/~shadow/t18/t18-2.jpg
http://home.off-road.com/~shadow/t18/t18.jpg

Nope, they are not supposed to look like that. That shaft is showing quite a bit of wear. If it were me, I'd take that back pronto or at the least get a large portion of your money back. If you decide to rebuild it, there's a good manual transmission shop in the Springs that can rebuild it or sell you the parts you need or sell you a complete transmission. It's called A-1 Transmissions on 870 W. Costilla, 719-442-0564. Ask for Steve.

You got mega hosed.... covered in grease.(clue it hasn't had work) out put shaft is heavly warn, I bet first gear is chipped too. (worn first gear is ok). That is just a yard pulled, used tranny. 150 bucks is all its worth. TAKE IT BACK.....

Looks like the nut on the bullgear came loose and the bullgear walked off the shaft. It's a common problem with the t18's. As long as the gear fits tight it should be OK, but it nees a new nylock nut and some locktite. And yes, you did get hosed, big time. I've bought 2 Jeep CJ T18's one for $150 - a real deal, and one for $500, a so-so deal. Both were in much better condition than what you have pictured.

Plus, if you wanted to attach to a D300, you started out with the wrong tranny - you want a 2wd Ford T18 (about $60 at the pick and pull) and a Novak adaptor for it. (around $500)

:eek: Yikes!! This strings got me convinced. I am sticking with my old stock 3spd. Actually the poor ol' thing has been popping out of 2nd for years and just recently puked 90 wt all over my clutch so I am finally going to change it. My rig is a 44 Ford GPW and it "looks like the original tranny". Anyone have a good 3spd laying around idle?

Don't be afraid of the swap, just stay away from FNJeep.:flipoff: that guy.

Although in your case, maybe you should keep yours stock. The WWII transfercases aren't as strong as the later ones, neither are the rear axles. With the additional low gear, you will be replacing those frequently. Got any pics? Sounds like a cool Jeep.

I'm in the same dilema...although I decided to just get one made. My patience has run out waiting for the right one to just fall into the Pick n Pull yards...not to mention I can't get there as often as I would like. I've found the t-18a for as little as 750 without the adapter.

The D-20 is a fine t-case...much more durable then the 300. My 304 is pretty done up (destroyed the t-150) but hasn't even shaved a tooth on the D-20.

Best of Luck

Originally posted by cjshawn
I'm in the same dilema...although I decided to just get one made. My patience has run out waiting for the right one to just fall into the Pick n Pull yards...not to mention I can't get there as often as I would like. I've found the t-18a for as little as 750 without the adapter.

The D-20 is a fine t-case...much more durable then the 300. My 304 is pretty done up (destroyed the t-150) but hasn't even shaved a tooth on the D-20.

Best of Luck

what what what???

You're dropping 750 on a T18 without an adapter???

Are you on crack???

Send ChiefSlapaHo a PM (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/private.php?s=&action=newmessage&userid=2694). He'll hook you up. He's in your neck of the woods.

Gramps, that's what I am afraid of ... Make one change and then the rest of the rig becomes the weak link. Awright, that's a tad fatalistic but close enough to true.
I am not even 100 percent sure the tranny in the Willy's (actually a ford gpw) is the correct one. It sure looks like it belongs there. I don't see any fabrication evidence to speak of. Any hints on how to identify if it is the correct (original trans). Honest, I am not a restoration / military guy, I am just trying to keep this job in perspective. I've been perfectly happy with the old three speed.
Pictures: No new ones. Only old ones from Colorado and my Dad is in them. I'd get em scanned but seeing my Dad (now that he's gone) makes me sad. Hmm, maybe it's my "thing". Thinking about the old man, would make me smile if I were to remember the good things.
It's real cool being in a forum like POR, then we can all learn about guys like the hitman at FNjeep. Geez, what's he thinkin', we got the kinda dough to keep paying out at prices like that and come back for more? What a jerk!
The old jeep is in great need but it sure gives me smile when I take it out! Just finished with the brakes. Turns out they were "upgraded" to 73 or so CJ 11" shoes etc. with old 64 F100 drums. What a trip... Must of been something that was done to it 20 years ago before my Dad bought it...:rolleyes:
I better go, gotta get ready for work tomorrow..:mad:

Ps. 2.3 turbo. Now that'd snap my lill millitary axles!

DoubleBit,
You should havve a T-84. It's about 6" in length. The CJ trannys ran a T-90 which is better. It's about 8" in length. I think both have the model # cast into the side of them. I'm sure the T-90 does.

Yeah the 2.3 turbo should be a lot of fun once I get it running. Click on my WWW button if you wnat to see more about it

Gramps, thanks for the input about the tranny. Sounds like I better hustle out to the garage and take a few measurements, look for numbers and clean things up under there.
I only peeked at your site. I wanta look more later. Your front page sure looks like Norwood, Co. Where my Dad and jeep lived up until a couple of years ago. God's country, no doubt about it. What part of Colorado is Peyton in?
Have ever heard of that brake set up I mentioned before? Works great, sounds bizarre.

DoubleBit,
Peyton is in El Paso county, east of Colorado Springs. That picture was taken in front of my house. Where is Norwood? Never heard of it.

I have heard of using later CJ brakes on early Jeeps. My brakes are from a 60s J truck. Sure work a lot better than the on 9" drums. Never heard of using ford drums, but I know they use the same bolt pattern so I guess they work. Fords usually have a smaller center hole though, I wonder if yours have been machined.

Norwood's in San Miguel County, near Telluride (Ta-hell-u-ride) the ol' cowboys called it. 4 corners region.
I am sure the hub centers had to be enlarged. It was funny taking it apart. It did look a lot like the brakes on the 55 f100 I had. Then the self adjusters and size told me this was in no way 40's vintage hardware.
I may have a line on a local deal for a Dauntless V6 and trans etc that came out of an old military flatty. What do you think, too much torque for the old driveline? Currently it has the ol' Hurricane F-head in it and I absolutely can't stand the carb poking out of the hood look. Especially to accomodate such a weird obsolete motor..
:)

The F-head isn't a great improvement over the L-head. Probably the reason the military drivetrain has survived. Actually since the engine has been swapped, are you sure the rest of the drivetrain hasn't been swapped out as well? Like I said before, the military tranny is 6" long rather than 8". The military transfercase is the same, but it uses a 3/4" intermediate shaft. CJ transfer cases use either an 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" intermediate shaft. This shaft sticks out the back in the middle of the case and you can measure it's daimeter without removing the transfer case. The rear axle will be full floating if Military and semi floating if CJ.

Since you're not restoring, I'd swap it, but like I said, check to see if you have a military drivetrain. If the V-6 assembly includes the tranny and transfercase, you should be good in those areas. The rear axle will still need upgrading though. Military parts are valuable (mostly because there are so few that haven't broken.) if you sell what you have to someone who is doing a restoration, I'd wager you'd make enough to buy the V-6 and a rear axle. BTW, the best rear axle to get is the 70 1/2 - 71 CJ axle. It's the correct width, offsett and one piece shafts.

Gramps,
It's definitely a full floating rear diff. Had to pull the cute lill' axles to get the hubs and drums off. Like a minny 3/4-1 tonner.
I appreciate your guidance on the trans and t-case ID. I'll be able to get under there tomorrow. That's a pretty specific year/model on the rear diff. Is there a short production range (more years) involved?
I would like to have a little more power (who doesn't?). Then we'll see how good the steering is. Yikes! It's kinda "floaty" as it is!
Thanks, I'll update my posts after looking at what I have for driveline!!

Jeep went to one piece axles in mid '70, they then changed to a D20 transfer case and a centered rear axle in '72. That's the reason for the short range. Earlier ones work, but have two piece axles and lower spline counts. They're not as strong but still better than what you have. You can also go to a D20 transfercase and centered rear axle if you want. Won't have as low of a low range though.

Gramps,
I have taken a closer look at the trans and t-case.
They are indeed military.
P-green 3/4" intermediate shaft t-case. Same color as the parkerizing on my old 30-06.
The trans has "T 84 J" right on the case in casting marks also directly below those marks is "-1A" also in casting marks.
So it would seem the F-head stopped at the engine.
Hmm, maybe I should just pull the old tranny out and see what it'll take to rebuild 'er.
That's usually been what works out best in the long run anyway.
Any good resources out there for tranny pieces?
I have a milk crate about half full of gears and junk a rancher friend gave me. (80 parts iron, 15 parts straw and dirt, 5 parts rust)
It appears to be a mixed bag of junk.
There's a case for a t-case w/ cast marks "C18-15-10" (the bigger intermediate staft model) but not enough pieces to build anything.
:p Recon I best keep looking for parts.
Will most of the internals minus the intermediate shaft transfer from my military t-case to the C18? Hmm, there's a thought!
I hope maybe this guy building a monster out of his flatty will have someting that'll fit. :) :rolleyes:
Thanks Gramps!

Northstar Willys (http://www.northstarwillys.com/transmis.htm) has what you need. You'll notice the price of a rebuilt T-84 is more than the price of a rebuilt T-90 even though the T-90 is significantly stronger and therefore better. In your first post you said you were interested in swapping to a T-18. I know we concluded that wasn't such a good idea with the stock military parts, but if your still interested, Let me know. I have a T-18/T-98 hybrid that will work with both the F head and the D-18. You could swap and then baby it until you can get the rest upgraded. (something you should really do anyway if you plan on taking your Jeep off-road)

Speaking of the D18, your military internals will not fit in the civy case. 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" versions will swap internals, but 3/4" internals are different.

Gramps,
Thanks for all of your input.
I wasn't the initiator of this post or string.
I jumped in with commentary about needing a three speed and seeing from the pains and expense ShadowZuk was going thru that I needed to be very thoughtful about how to procede or I'd end up costing myself a bunch of money. So it wasn't really my first thought to modify my old jeep.
I may yet end up doing just that but will work my connections and follow up on new ones 'till I am sure of how I can best procede. In the end you are most likely right, I will end up taking my little jeep to a stronger driveline. And I will keep that t-case of yours in mind. And contact you if I need it.
You're right it is a "freakin adventure"!
Ideally, I'll fix my own tranny or find another T84 that'll get me along untill I am ready to modify the whole driveline at once instead of as it blows up after putting too much stress on old stuff.
Heck, my jeep even still has those cute "C" shaped shackles and stock leaf springs on it. Hee hee!
Thanks again, friend.:)

Fn Jeep Sucks

Have you talked to Novak?
I am in the middle of a T15a to T18 swap right now.
Talk to Cameron at novak in the Tech Dept. #435-753-2513 he will hook you up.
I thought I got hosed when I paid $450 for a t18 out of a FSJ and I got the adapter plate a Dana 20 (and an extra one).
Did you pull the top off the tranny and look at the gears?
First ought to be really big if it is 6.32:1
Get the Moses Ludel book for your year jeep and it has a great chapter on T18 rebuild and retro fit.
Also look in this BB for my thread on T18, "Popeye" posted good info on the T18 swap for me.
If you want lower gearing, you can add the Teralow to the Dana 20 for $900 like I did, but I must admit I wish i had saved and bought the Atlas II.
Good Luck