I have always shot jacketed bullets in 44 mag.
Last week I bought a pile of cast bullets off gunbroker.

I have my super blackhawk zero at 100 yards with a 180 JHP.
I shoot several different loads.
The magnum load is H110 powder 28.8 grains.

The common shooting load is 11.8 gr Unique powder.
The unique load is a nice shooting load.
The report and recoil is not as sharp.

So this weekend I loaded up a bunch of 240 RNFP lead cast bullets.
I used trail boss powder, because I have some left and need to use it up.
The book data showed 900 fps with 7 gr of trail boss powder.

I left the crimp the same, which I knew would generate a little more pressure and velocity.

I went shooting yesterday.
With the 180 gr JHP I was consistently hitting a 2" target at 25 yards. Obviously not 100%, but I the ones that missed were because of me.
I started shooting a 12"x12" steel target at 100 yards.
I was making the steel ring more than I was missing.

I tried the 240 gr loads.
The report and recoil were mild. I shot a bunch effortlessly one handed.
At 25 yards, I was hitting about 4" high and about 2" right.
The groups were probably around 5" or 6".
I tried shooting off a rest, same results.
I switched back to the 180 gr JHP, and hit 4 out 5 in a 2" circle.

So figure this.
180 gr JHP around 1200 to 1300 fps, you hit dead center.
240 gr RNFP around 900 fps, you hit 4" high and 2" right.
same gun, same yardage.

I have seen this before, even though it is counter intuitive.

Whats the BC of the two?

Please define BC :confused:

Please define BC :confused:

Ballistic Coefficient. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_coefficient

I know what it is, but BC didn't ring a bell.
I never payed any attention to is on a pistol bullet.
One is probably similar to an ashtray, the other is more like a trash can :laughing:
It really shouldn't be a factor at 25 yards.

Twist rate not handle the heavier bullet.

i'm working on a load for 210 gn bullets now







but at 3000 fps and a bc of .631:D








but for real, have you actually chronnied the loads or are you just going by the book data?

Seems to me like the increase torque is making you pull.

I didn't have the chronograph, I was just plinking.

As far as the twist rate, that is not a heavy bullet for a 44 mag, actually it is the standard. The twist rate is not too fast, because it didn't foul the barrel with lead.
(You'll know when you do that the first time, about 20-30 shots in you can't hit anything and the bore is smooth).

I have had this happen before with rifles.
I have changed powder and it changed the point of impact left/right.
Same bullet, same gun, just different powder.

The poor accuracy (large group size) shows that the load didn't work. I need to keep searching. I'll leave the rest of the trail boss for the 45 colt, and try to work up a load with unique or tite group for the lead bullets.

Seems to me like the increase torque is making you pull.

That should be a non-issue. I shot magnum loads yesterday, the unique loads, and the low powered lead loads.
I just need to find a better load.

Finding a good load for each gun is not as easy as opening a reloading book.
You have to experiment. Velocity, barrel twist, barrel length are the big factors. Bullet hardness, lube, barrel harmonics, fouling, etc. are usually minor factors but sometimes they make a big difference.

I need to check the actual diameter of the cast bullets to make sure they are not undersized.

I need to check the actual diameter of the cast bullets to make sure they are not undersized.

could the non-jacked bullets have more friction causing higher pressure and velocity?

could the non-jacked bullets have more friction causing higher pressure and velocity?

That was my next thought. The unjacketed bullet would definitely make a tighter seal in the barrel.

I would suspect they are undersized.
I can tell by shooting that the velocity is not higher.
Lower report, recoil, and actually hear the bullet hit shooting at 100 yards.
I suspect the leads are flying around 1000 FPS, based on the [bang][ding] when I did hit the steel target Vs. the [BADING] from the magnum loads at the same range.
They are not high velocity.

I love cast bullets. I shoot them over jacked 90% of the time in handguns. My 45LC is my testing pig and I use magnum loads most of the time.

About these cast bullets you picked up, what are the:

1) size, true size
2) shape/design
3) lube
4) hardness
5) coating...moly, plain, etc.?

The soft lead cast I shoot at 900fps on the average. Harder WW stuff I push to 1100-1200fps and some of my special moly type coated ones I push to 1300-1400fps. All of these are dead on if I use the correct powder. Blue Dot for 1100 fps and under. Lil'gun for the higher range.

The only powder that shot wild group was Win 231. I think a good medium weight powder is better for cast. Fast pistol powders just dont push the heavier projectiles right IMHO.

I load all this in a 45LC not the 44mag but the princile is the same from .429 to.452 since the bullet weights are about the same.

I suspect the leads are flying around 1000 FPS, based on the [bang][ding] when I did hit the steel target Vs. the [BADING] from the magnum

Maybe, maybe not. On steel the JHPs will sound faster then cast since the lead deforms more even though they are about the same speed. I like the way casts move the target more, or knock it over when jacketed stuff just richottes.

Maybe, maybe not. On steel the JHPs will sound faster then cast since the lead deforms more even though they are about the same speed. I like the way casts move the target more, or knock it over when jacketed stuff just richottes.

No, they are slower.
They sound like a 45 ACP. There is a definite delay at 100 yards.

The bullets are D&J 240 gr RNFP. They seem fairly hard, I don't know the hardness number, but they definitely not soft.

I have no idea, but from the IMR website

.44 mag

Bullet: 240 GR. LWSC

Dia. .430"

COL: 1.620"

Trail Boss

6.0 gr

828 fps

19,100 PSI

-------------------

7.3 gr

917 fps

21,600 PSI

No, they are slower.
They sound like a 45 ACP. There is a definite delay at 100 yards.

The bullets are D&J 240 gr RNFP. They seem fairly hard, I don't know the hardness number, but they definitely not soft.

Guess its time to changer powder and try them at 1100fps or so. Have yuo tried Lil'Gun? My 45LC likes it. I cant remember the other Hodgen powder I use for fast loads and I'm surf blocked at work. Green labeled Hodgen..3895 maybe, I'll have to look.

I haven't tried Lil Gun.
The loads almost mirror H110 in the load manuals.
I plan on trying some when I am out of H110.

The nest load I work up will be with Unique, because I have it at the house.
Unique is a very versatile powder in pistol cartridges. It doesn't produce magnum loads, but gives a decent case volume.

I quick Google of D&J bullets showed numerous threads about poor quality/accuracy with them.

Also thier website www.djbullets.com is down. Makes me wonder if they are around anymore. If the base material was a big mix of whatever they could get then weight and hardness issues will make big groups. No idea about thier casting practices and moulds either.

Your slower/heavier load is shooting higher because it is in the barrel longer, it is recoiling up and torquing to the side more by the time the bullet leaves the barrel when compared to the lighter/faster load.

I've never had that problem before.
I agree that poot technique will affect shooting, and magnify with low velocity loads.
I don't feel that is the case, considering it has never bothered me before.

My other powder is H110 so you're already covered.

Not sure if you are replying to my post, but I didn't say anything about poor technique. The difference in loads alone could account for the group size, i know with my wheelguns there can be a huge difference between one load and another . All I am saying is, slower loads shoot higher.