Here's my winter project. It's a '53 M38A1 Willy's that I bought last summer. I took it out 9 times and broke (big) 8 times. So, I decided to beef it up this winter. Here's what it looked like before I took my torch to it:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/53_Jeep_Willys_M38A1_009.jpg

Before I started, I posted ads on craigslist to sell off the 3-spd & x-fer. and another parts I thought I could make a dime on. Everything sold in 3 days. I traded a digital tread-mill for a TH350/NP205 (which I got to test before pulling).
I tore it down to the frame, only leaving the engine, and front axle.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1186.jpg

I trussed the FJ40 rear (that's what was in the rig) using 1/4" 1x2". I filled it in with 12ga sheet metal. Also, welded the spiders and made the 3-link mounts.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/axletruss1.jpg

Then, I made the lower links out of 3" schedule 180 pipe and 1" tractor heims from the local tractor supply (cost so far (I spent the profit from the parts sale on beer, oil and new lights for the shop): $26). On the other end of the lowers, I welded pieces of tube that contain Procomp bushings ($20).
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1199.jpg

The wishbone I also made from stuff that was laying around. I did buy another 1" tractor heim and 2 weld-in 3/4 heims (about $20).
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1198.jpg

I made the mountings also from stuff laying around (all 1/4" or better when needed). Also, all mounts are gusseted and/or braced. Lowers use 1" tractor pins all the way around. The wishbone is bolted in the front and uses a tractor pin on the axle. That way, I can have the rear end out in no time. By only having one end adjustable, I cut my cost in half (which wasn't much) and I don't have to worry about a jam-nut getting lose and knocking my alignment out.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1201.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1202.jpg

I got the rear end under it and all lined up and she started to look like this might just work;http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1194.jpg

I used 4-runner springs for the mock-up (but I might just keep them). I mounted them on the lower arms so I can swap rear ends quickly. Also, I can pull the tractor pins and adjust my ride height my moving my heims (which changes my link angle, I know :flipoff2:).
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1200.jpg

Next came the roll-out to see how the tub would fit. I had to move the rear back 10" to better fit the trans/x-fer.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/4LINK4.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/4LINK1.jpg

I set the tub on just to see how much I'd have to hack the tub.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1209.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1208.jpg

Wow. I don't really see the reason of putting an offset rear axle behind a centered rear transfercase. Your driveshaft will be maxed out all the time, and will likely contact the upper link.

With that first one aside, tractor links? Come on man, at least buy some links that are rated for a higher strength than those. Also the way you have the "heim" (which a tractor link is barely considered) will cause it to break its press fit when side loaded.

Did you even calculate any mounting locations, corresponding heights and numbers for Anti-squat, roll center or roll understeer when planning your 3 link wishbone? Also the mounts for the wishbone and lower control arms look inadequete for any sort of abuse.

I think you should seriously rethink this build, by reading up on a lot of different wishbone and 4 link build up threads. Throwing parts and links at something without the proper research or parts will not cure your rig breaking driveline parts. My guess was your previous breakages stemmed from your rig being lifted about 4 inches higher than it needed to be.

Yep, I used (used) hockey pucks to re-mount the tub ($5 worth).

The orginal plan was to hack out the fender well. However, I still had the issue of driving with my knees in my armpits.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/4LINK2.jpg

So, I decided to cut some more:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/4LINK3.jpg

Last weekend, I added 8" to the floor, tub and roll-bar. I haven't taken pix yet but I'll post them as soon as I do. I'll also be adding a TBI before I'm done. I had to replace most of the nuts & bolts (due to disassembling at 11pm after a 12 pak), which brought my total cash output to just under $70.
I know many of you will flame me for such a red-neck build, but I don't like "bolt-together" rigs (mostly 'cause I can't afford it) and my boys (11, 13, 15) are going to beat the crap out of this thing in the mud-bog I made in our lower pasture. It's been a hell of a lot of fun and I've done it all, a couple hours at a time, in less than 4 weeks.
My 'yota buddies still call it a Barbie Jeep. I say "after the football team got done with her".
Here's my bog:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/1216071130.jpg

Well I am glad you don't do this for a living otherwise your madddddd insane fab skills might put some people out of business. lmfao haha

I actually used a link formula I found on pirate. I have a high anti-squat (I don't remember where it ended up but I think it was in the high 60s (more than I wanted). Plus, I can change that because these heims have 12" of thread). Also, I twisted everything up in every direction and way possible (and unlikely). Nothing bound, nothing contacted, but I did have to remove the 50 cal mount.
The mounts are braced and gusseted. I'm sure the stock front end will break before the rear.
I don't know how these heims can't be stronger than automotive 3/4". I've been using (abusing) them for years on machinery and never have I seen one break. My little 38 doesn't have enough of anything to break one.
If this doesn't work, I'll torch it off and do something else. I could have leaves back on in less than a day.
I didn't want to use an offset axle but that's what I had and also, EVERYONE told me to use it, to gain all the driveshaft I could. It doesn't bind but I might buy a Tom Woods, just in case.

Finally....a real build, most of us work for a living at a shit job and cant afford the fancy sh$t like JJs or DOM. Nice to see somebody thats not scared to actually wheel and get a little muddy. Flamers.......go back to mallcrawling

Finally....a real build, most of us work for a living at a shit job and cant afford the fancy sh$t like JJs or DOM. Nice to see somebody thats not scared to actually wheel and get a little muddy. Flamers.......go back to mallcrawling

Wow, You're fucking kidding right.

We all work for a living but if you can't afford the right way to build something then don't do it. There are ways to build on a budget that doesn't mean to skimp on the important things like your links, material or the suspension design. :shaking: I bet you defend the scaringsteering.com website too.




Just put the leaves back under it and save yourself the time now.

I run leafs myself just for that reason, but I dont see a problem with running heims on his rig, dont you have a set of stairs some where you should be climbing

By the way my steering is made of PVC and ducktape.....holds up just fine

If it doesn't work, I still have lots of gas in the tanks and plenty of 6013.

This is just a family trail rig and pasture mud-bogger. If it breaks, it breaks. At least I'm not tearing up a $30k Rubicon. I have a hot rod, Harley, Katana, Ninja and bombed Dodge. Spending $70 on any of these wouldn't add much of anything. I'll be sure to post pix when I take it out and see what breaks. I new posting in "hard-core" would inspire me.

With about 70 I could by one JJ and tube insert and a soda i think lol

Well, I am really digging this build. It is displaying a level of ingenuity that used to be the norm...back when it was far from uncommon to see rigs built from affordable materials that were readily available. Yea, there was a time before specialty heims, coil-overs, and store bought, bolt-on bullshit.

In my opinion, this is real tech...it is one hell of a lot more difficult to do what this builder is undertaking than it is to order all your shit and just bolt it up. Oh fawk, it's not a 1 ton YJ
Oh fawk, he isn't using DOM
Tractor Heims? Quick, call Poison Fawkin Spyder so he can be like the rest of you tribal tattooed candy asses.

This is a great thread for us who own a HF bender, use pipe, and aren't afraid to wander around TSC looking for shit we can "make work". Yea, that's me, and I drink Keystone...it's the bottled beer in a can.

PS. The man has a nice tractor. How many of YOU little pissants have a tractor?

Doin'...not talkin'
Not mine but I like the idea of budget building...half the fun.

Well, I am really digging this build. It is displaying a level of ingenuity that used to be the norm...back when it was far from uncommon to see rigs built from affordable materials that were readily available. Yea, there was a time before specialty heims, coil-overs, and store bought, bolt-on bullshit.

In my opinion, this is real tech...it is one hell of a lot more difficult to do what this builder is undertaking than it is to order all your shit and just bolt it up. Oh fawk, it's not a 1 ton YJ
Oh fawk, he isn't using DOM
Tractor Heims? Quick, call Poison Fawkin Spyder so he can be like the rest of you tribal tattooed candy asses.

This is a great thread for us who own a HF bender, use pipe, and aren't afraid to wander around TSC looking for shit we can "make work". Yea, that's me, and I drink Keystone...it's the bottled beer in a can.

PS. The man has a nice tractor. How many of YOU little pissants have a tractor?

Feeling a lil angst? Dude tractor joints will fail they are weak PEROID.I'm up for the barnyard builds,but it would be safer to use bushings all around.Or for another $75 or so use JJ's

OlyWa

I dont see a problem with running heims on his rig

There are no problems at all with running heims on a rig.

He's running grossly undersized, poorly machined, shitty quality, badly oriented, agricultural utility rod ends.

They have their place and application, and it's certainly not under the rear of a vehicle.

Just because you can do something cheaply doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Jeep was shit before,

now it's shit shit.

The "ag links" are a joke - they really are.

Maybe sell the tractor and get some JJs'.

Oh - and building it cheap and building it shitty do not have to be the same thing.

Well, I am really digging this build. It is displaying a level of ingenuity that used to be the norm...back when it was far from uncommon to see rigs built from affordable materials that were readily available. Yea, there was a time before specialty heims, coil-overs, and store bought, bolt-on bullshit.

In my opinion, this is real tech...it is one hell of a lot more difficult to do what this builder is undertaking than it is to order all your shit and just bolt it up. Oh fawk, it's not a 1 ton YJ
Oh fawk, he isn't using DOM
Tractor Heims? Quick, call Poison Fawkin Spyder so he can be like the rest of you tribal tattooed candy asses.

This is a great thread for us who own a HF bender, use pipe, and aren't afraid to wander around TSC looking for shit we can "make work". Yea, that's me, and I drink Keystone...it's the bottled beer in a can.

PS. The man has a nice tractor. How many of YOU little pissants have a tractor?

LMFAO. Monkey, my wife says this build was worth it, just reading your post (of course, she's not doing any of it). BTW- my bender is a used (free) Costco bender I found on craigslist. I wish I could bend like the "frog" in Rocklin, CA.
To all you heim experts; I've NEVER seen one fail. I've attached things that shouldn't be attached, pulled in angles, not ment to go. I've never even HEARD of one breaking (I've always lived around farms/ranches). That being said, they're only $12ea and I'll carry spares. IF any break, I'll post pix and admit I'm wrong. If I break 3, I'll go to something else. I just can't see what could fail. Most guys around here use them on home-made traction bars (and they use 3/4"). Nobodys broken anything.

To all you heim experts; I've NEVER seen one fail. I've attached things that shouldn't be attached, pulled in angles, not ment to go. I've never even HEARD of one breaking (I've always lived around farms/ranches). That being said, they're only $12ea and I'll carry spares. IF any break, I'll post pix and admit I'm wrong. If I break 3, I'll go to something else. I just can't see what could fail. Most guys around here use them on home-made traction bars (and they use 3/4"). Nobodys broken anything.

And theres the be-uty of mud boggin..... Not hatin but..... esplainin :D

Wrap a chain around yor bumper and try to pull down a telphone poll with your tires on dry cement ...... then lets see how long they last

To all you heim experts; I've NEVER seen one fail.

I've seen them go enough times to make up for that.

Three most common points of failure (not including just plain bending 'em):

- the ball ripping through the outside wall of the socket
- the threads pulling out of the threaded insert
- the ball pushing through the side of the socket

You've set yourself up pretty good for any of these things to happen. You've got a thin wall controlling all the axle torque, you've got a large amount of thread exposed (and that thread is not a very precise fit to begin with), and you've got all the side loading trying to push the ball through the side of the housing rather than into it. Rotating the top joint 90* would at least solve this one and put the housing in a stronger direction of bending, but then you've got everything else to still worry about.

Meanwhile, for $50 and the cost of a tubing insert, you could put a Johnny Joint on the top of the axle and have much more confidence and quality.

Wrap a chain around yor bumper and try to pull down a telphone poll with your tires on dry cement ...... then lets see how long they last

So a chain around a bumper to pull with is "strong"?:homer:

Id use tractor joints 10X before I'd hook a chain to my bumper to pull with.....

I can admit being a cheap ass. But as was said if you don't have the cash to do it right wait. I Am doing a Wishbone 3 Link Up front in my S10 . My Truss is made out of 2x2 1/4 , and 2x3 3/16. I am using JJ's on one side of my lowers , and Poly Bushing's on the top.
For the Wishbone I am using adjustable poly's at the frame , and (1) 1.25" w/ 1.0" ball steel rod end w/ kevlar liner at the axle. Here is a cost break down for you showing how cheaply you can do it right. I will even post links of where I found best prices.

$ 40 For 26Ft of 2x2 1/4 For my Links And WishBone. ( Steel yard)

$ Steel For Truss Free , cut up my old sliders.

$ 59 Per Set So $118 (2) LH Thread Sets Poly Bushings , Threaded with inserts , and Jam Nuts 2 in a set. (http://suicidedoors.com/Square4-LinkBungwithPolyBushings.php)

$42.99 1.25" w/ 1.0" ball steel rod end w/ kevlar liner (https://ballisticfabrication.3dcartstores.com/EXM-16-125-w-10-ball-steel-rod-end-w-kevlar-liner_p_83-1415.html)

$39.99 (2) So $80 2 1/2" FORGED JOHNNY JOINT® W/ 1 1/4" RH THREADED STUD (http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=2629)

$1.25 So 2.50 2 RH Jam Nuts for JJ's (http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/product.aspx?id=2633)

$ 9.20 2 Tube Inserts For Lower JJ's . (http://kore4x4customs.com/asccustompages/products.asp?fpage=1&categoryID=27&productID=65&cartID=265796561)

$ 9.20 Tube Insert For Upper Wishbone Heim. (http://kore4x4customs.com/asccustompages/products.asp?fpage=1&categoryID=27&productID=65&cartID=265796561)

Buddy is gonna Make my Link tabs for me . Not positive

$311.09 .. not Bad for good parts.

[QUOTE=vetteboy79;7813835]I've seen them go enough times to make up for that.

Three most common points of failure (not including just plain bending 'em):

- the ball ripping through the outside wall of the socket
- the threads pulling out of the threaded insert
- the ball pushing through the side of the socket

I double nutted the joints (you're right, they're not very precise) so I don't think that's a weak point anymore. I can't see how the ball could rip through that thick of material but I could see how side loading could, maybe pop it out the side. Like I said, I'll try it, carry spares and after 3 break; I'll preach the gospel against them. I won't go easy on them either. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm just saying I'll try it and we'll all learn something (unless anyone has pix of them working or breaking). Everyone knows someone who has a cousin that broke something. I want to see for myself.
I just hope to be laughing in the end (I'll be laughing even if it all falls apart).

If it doesn't work, I still have lots of gas in the tanks and plenty of 6013.

This is just a family trail rig and pasture mud-bogger. If it breaks, it breaks. At least I'm not tearing up a $30k Rubicon. I have a hot rod, Harley, Katana, Ninja and bombed Dodge. Spending $70 on any of these wouldn't add much of anything. I'll be sure to post pix when I take it out and see what breaks. I new posting in "hard-core" would inspire me.

I like how you mention it's for your family..... I would never let my family , friends or me ride in such a pile of shit. you should have kept it the way it was it looked nice when you started. You ever hear of fucking up a wet dream? You just did....

ya'll are taking this way to serious...

Sure, most of us who deal with this stuff for a living realize that poop pipe and ag heims isn't the best combination of parts for a build. I think most people who get mad about crap like this should be building instead of bullshitting, hell if you've got time to lean you've got time to clean. Get your ass out in the shop and do something productive.

If this isn't going to see street duty I say run what you brung and have some fun. If it breaks fix it.

ya'll are taking this way to serious...

Sure, most of us who deal with this stuff for a living realize that poop pipe and ag heims isn't the best combination of parts for a build. I think most people who get mad about crap like this should be building instead of bullshitting, hell if you've got time to lean you've got time to clean. Get your ass out in the shop and do something productive.

If this isn't going to see street duty I say run what you brung and have some fun. If it breaks fix it.

But on the other hand this guy is talking about driving his family around in this POS .... .

Well, I'll say I'm sure as shit not going to take a cross state trip in the damn thing at 80 mph down the highway. I will, however, flog the shit out of it 'till it breaks in the mud pit.

subscribed just to see how many trips out before that upper link heim takes a shit. and the driveshaft throws a tantrum :D

But on the other hand this guy is talking about driving his family around in this POS .... .

damn he said its just for bombin around the fields and playin in the mud its not like hes runing in pro rock with it.hell i have seen half ton axels hold up with 44s in the mud but seen 60s snap with 38s in the rocks. it all has to do with were your wheelin.:flipoff2:

damn he said its just for bombin around the fields and playin in the mud its not like hes runing in pro rock with it.hell i have seen half ton axels hold up with 44s in the mud but seen 60s snap with 38s in the rocks. it all has to do with were your wheelin.:flipoff2:


That doesn't mean it's right. But I don't like the idea of anyone I care about riding in something that the guy has tractor toplinks for joints , and hockeypucks for body mounts. And Yes I do know a few rednecks that do crazy shit , but honestly the ones I know know better than this.

Ah, come on. Now you're knockin my hockey pucks? I thought that was a good idea. I don't see those failing.
This thing will see plenty of airborne testing before I put any of my family in it. It may be fun and kinda crazy but I'm not stupid.
We wheel in the Cascades. The ground is soft, hardly any rocks, too many trees to go fast. I've seen some really cheezy stuff up there, and most of it drives out alive. This is a pro-build compared to what my neighbors do.
Half of the fun of this is trying to see what works and building it myself. It is what it is. Maybe I take the torch to it after the 1st test drive. Maybe it outdoes everyone else on the trail. I'll let you know.
Sheesh, some of you need to lighten up & have some fun.:smokin:

What has the Jeep Forum come to when many people are defending this abhoration of fabrication?

I politely suggested he should start over, but I don't see this guy taking any sort of constructive criticism. This thing is a horrendous piece of shit, and is unsafe to take anywhere.

As for you guys saying we criticizers should build things instead of knocking podunk-Dan, I'm poor and managed to build a wheeler that isn't at risk of breaking in half. You are not doing a budget build on this, you are doing a booty-fab build because you don't know any better. Stop trying to make excuses for piss-poor parts and fabrication.

PS, I do drink Keystone.

What has the Jeep Forum come to when many people are defending this abhoration of fabrication?

I politely suggested he should start over, but I don't see this guy taking any sort of constructive criticism. This thing is a horrendous piece of shit, and is unsafe to take anywhere.

As for you guys saying we criticizers should build things instead of knocking podunk-Dan, I'm poor and managed to build a wheeler that isn't at risk of breaking in half. You are not doing a budget build on this, you are doing a booty-fab build because you don't know any better. Stop trying to make excuses for piss-poor parts and fabrication.

PS, I do drink Keystone.

I completely Agree with you . As I said above I am doing a budget build and posted prices for linkin the front of my rig. It isn't that bad.

Years ago I built a 4-link/ladder-bar on a 9" in my 71 Chevelle. Plenty of people said it wouldn't work. That was nearly 20 years ago. I still have the car, it still runs 12s, and launches hard and streight.
If this doesn't work, I'll be the 1st one to admit it. I'm not too proud to admit when I'm wrong but I am too proud to buy something I can build.

Sounds like the guy is set on doing this. Fuck it man, its his shit. Sure, his family could possibly be in potential danger. But face it, we all know people who are threats to there family's general welfare everyday. Nothing you can do, I just hope it works out for him and he really holds up to his word of nothing on pavement and not letting them drive it. If his family wasn't going to be involved, then I think its awesome. Fuck it, have some fun. He knows what he is potentially getting HIMSELF into. His tractor parts fail and rolls his shit and he gets ejected that's his bad. He seems humble enough to say, "yeah, you guys were right. I fucked up." Either way, lol entertaining thread. I am subscribed.

I bought an axle that came with some redneck mudbog links attached to it with these tractor heims (before i cut them all off). All the heims are bent, they are super soft, i hit one with a hammer and it left a big dent. Hope they work out for you but please take lots of pics of the carnage when they brake in half :D

ill pay you 70 bucks if you rebuild it CORRECTLY! go buy some DOM and JJ's, put uritane buody mounts on it and for Gods sake man, build it safely

ill pay you 70 bucks if you rebuild it CORRECTLY! go buy some DOM and JJ's, put uritane buody mounts on it and for Gods sake man, build it safely

is uritane like unobtanium or pure urine?

Guy sounds like he's pretty dead set in his ways, which is fine, last time i checked Darwin's theory still worked just fine, and earth is getting crowded anyway. SO go ahead do what your gonna do, I think we've voiced our opinions enough to show any newbies who are looking at this thread and thinking about builds that this is a poorly thought out and executed design. Which is all i'm really worried about; we can't have one abhoration breeding more half assed rigs. :shaking:

Ah, come on. Now you're knockin my hockey pucks? I thought that was a good idea. I don't see those failing.
This thing will see plenty of airborne testing before I put any of my family in it. It may be fun and kinda crazy but I'm not stupid.
We wheel in the Cascades. The ground is soft, hardly any rocks, too many trees to go fast. I've seen some really cheezy stuff up there, and most of it drives out alive. This is a pro-build compared to what my neighbors do.
Half of the fun of this is trying to see what works and building it myself. It is what it is. Maybe I take the torch to it after the 1st test drive. Maybe it outdoes everyone else on the trail. I'll let you know.
Sheesh, some of you need to lighten up & have some fun.:smokin:


I love the hockey pucks...we did a 4" body lift on an old chevy, it leaned a bit around corners, but we could fit big tires under it!

Hell yeah, get this done and post pics of romping the shit out of it.:homer:

Ya know what would be sweet?


A monocoil!

Ya know what would be sweet?


A monocoil!

Maybe Racebronco is helping him with the fab work?

Ah, come on. Now you're knockin my hockey pucks? I thought that was a good idea. I don't see those failing.
This thing will see plenty of airborne testing before I put any of my family in it. It may be fun and kinda crazy but I'm not stupid.
We wheel in the Cascades. The ground is soft, hardly any rocks, too many trees to go fast. I've seen some really cheezy stuff up there, and most of it drives out alive. This is a pro-build compared to what my neighbors do.
Half of the fun of this is trying to see what works and building it myself. It is what it is. Maybe I take the torch to it after the 1st test drive. Maybe it outdoes everyone else on the trail. I'll let you know.
Sheesh, some of you need to lighten up & have some fun.:smokin:

I just noticed your in WA.PLEASE keep your rig away from Elbe and Evans,couse if you rip the rear diff out in the busy or the 197 it may become a permant obstacle and we may have to drive over it to get through.

OlyWa

No wonder he builds this stuff....Enumclaws finest http://www.komotv.com/news/archive/4158101.html :laughing:

OlyWa

Can any one tell me what the breaking strength of these tractor top links are? For shitz and gigles I tried to find it and could not. Thinking about doing the same thing as I have seen it done on a mud-bog truck with a big block and no breakage. Also have seen these things go thru a ton of abuse on farms and never seen one break.

Can any one tell me what the breaking strength of these tractor top links are? For shitz and gigles I tried to find it and could not. Thinking about doing the same thing as I have seen it done on a mud-bog truck with a big block and no breakage. Also have seen these things go thru a ton of abuse on farms and never seen one break.


ok well i might get flamed for this but here are some thoughts

#1 i would bet that 90% have never worked with tractors or top links. if you buy the right ones they will out last any JJ.

#2 yes they are cheaper. what is the one problem? with not having teflon or being rebuildable they get lose. about 1-2 seasons of hard beating b4 they street wander.

#3 most of you are so called crawlers but there is a whole different world of mudding...and i know of a truck running heavy tractor heims and by the way its got a doubler, 460, c6, and 2 1/2 tons rocks. and rustybucket $10 it will out wheel that jj linked s10.

now for his fab work...there is no excuse that is a horrible booty fab. what do you have at the end of the links 1/4 plate holding in the link? and 6" of exposed thread? come on man

The mounts are gusseted 5/16" and the unexposed thread is held in by doubled up nuts.
The L3750 in the pic has the same joints on it and it's taken tons of abuse. Every dairy around here runs the same thing. I might be wrong, but I don't think these will fail. As for the rest of the build, I know how it looks, but she ain't commin undone. There's some 1/4" here and there but most of it is 5/16" or better.
How about this; within the next month or 2, I'll post pix of me building the ramp, launching the Jp and we'll see what breaks. I'll video it too (my guess is the front end will come apart).
I'd tell you where I work but then I'd really get flamed. We fab some heavy-duty aftermarket truck/RV stuff. I'm really not too worried about breaking something. I'm more worried about how it will actually perform. Nobody's talking about that.
Before you flame me on that too; I don't pretend to be an arm-chair engineer but I did calculate this out, using a couple different formulas (one from Pirate) and I think I should be okay. There's only one way to really tell.
Flame on.

One more thing, all you guys who are on here every night; why aren't you working / building your rigs?:flipoff2:

:flipoff2::flipoff2:, I'm on here every night cause I'm stuck at work on a computer every night and this place in a fawked up kinda way helps me keep My insanity... I get off from here @ 1:15 and then go work on my rig till the wee hours of the morning

One more thing, all you guys who are on here every night; why aren't you working / building your rigs?:flipoff2:

I'm on here every night because my rig is in the garage sleeping because its built.

I'd be willing to bet your first test jump will prove all that shit falls off and you wind up crippled. Can't say that is the biggest POS I have ever seen but a close 2nd. Plus, can't say this is Hardcore either but guess there isn't a crap section to post it in.

Aw, I'm just messing with you. I haven't done anything for a couple nights. I was going to throw the nose and radiator on it tonight but my boss is an ass I got drunk instead.
I found some more pix. Here's one from when I first bought it. I backed it off the trailer, then drove it up the side to see how she'd twist (which broke a rear leaf).

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/53_Jeep_Willys_M38A1_003-1.jpg

Here's one of my neighbor who's running tractor heims on the rear of his 'yota (and never broke one (he's not running a small block, either)).

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/1216071347a-1.jpg

Hey, to everyone who didn't flame me (or at least, kept it to themselves till they see the outcome), thanks. Half the fun began when I posted on here. I really hope to prove the nay-sayers wrong but if I don't, I'll laugh with you.
Some of you guys must wheel for NASA. Most of the crap I've seen on the trail makes this look like an Abrams tank. Not saying it's great, but I think it's a ton better than what I started with. I wish I'd have taken pix of us twisting it up. Even the skeptics were impressed.
I forgot, that I boxed the frame and tied all the links together via braces (I think you can see it in the background of some of the pix).
Saturday, I'll drop in the Griffin rad and Cyclone fan. Also, I landed a Moroso water-pump on ebay, which I've already installed. She's never stayed as cool as I'd like. I don't want to cut the hood, but I think I'm trapping a lot of heat.

Any Idea on when we can expect to see this done? Just curious.

good luck,no point in saying any more than that.ill look forward to the updates

building seems more fun than wheeling (and breaking) sometimes doesnt it. Regardless of how booty it may seem its still fun.

lets see more

I can't wait to see it done.

I'v broken a few wishbone links and narrowly averted disaster. The thing is... if it breaks what is it going to take out. The axle will swing on the lower links axis possibly breaking shocks, driveline, yokes, brakelines, then your rig will come down on top of your link and axle because your springs will pop out at this point. Now if your fuel tank is mounted like most you'll punch a hole in that(fire?). The possibility of having all that carnage would more than offset the cost of a large heims and tube adaptors.

Now having said that, I think your a rock star for just doing it and not making excuses.

I have run some tractor hiems on traction bar/antiwrap bars and none have ever failed the dom tubing did,the solid tubing did,but never a tractor hiem.They might get loose but no failure.But then again I never had more than 3/4" of thread showing. I say run that shit, brace up the link mounts and strap down the coils top and bottom so that if shit happens at least you will have some time before the shit goes flying.By the way how do web wheelers lock there mouses into four low?

I am sure that anyone who has criticised this build would be more than willing to show pictures of their rigs and the "hardcore wheeling" that we all do. I don't think that anyone is necessarily questioning the use of the tractor heims but are in fact questioning the the entire build. anyone who defends this build should keep there dumb fuck ass in the mudpit that they drive their peices of shits in. absolutely rediculous!!!

Yesterday, I put in the radiator after making new mounts (cut hockey pucks). I welded tabs on the Griffin rad & I still have to make top mounts. I had to mount the electric fan on the front 'cause it wouldn't clear the Moroso water pump. I got the new S-blade fan. It claims to move 2300 CFM.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1234.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1233.jpg

Then I hooked up the steering (using a regular heim). I had to drop the whole body 1" to clear the header. I didn't think I'd get away with using the old steering rod with the tub being relocated.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1230.jpg

My neighbor did the body work on the tub (not bad for his 1st time). It will be covered in diamond plate. I figured out how to resize images too:homer:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1235-1.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1236.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1237.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1239-1.jpg

AND just for you Barbie crawlers, I found a can of blue paint so now it looks like a Fabtech rig. I couldn't resist:flipoff2:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1238.jpg
Don't worry, I won't leave it like that.:mad3:

I dont see the issue, since it will just be a shit kicker and not see street time. Cant wait to see more pics.

This is a pro-build compared to what my neighbors do.
Wow, I would HATE to see what your neighbors do


#1 i would bet that 90% have never worked with tractors or top links. if you buy the right ones they will out last any JJ.
So a greasable, rebuildable Johnny Joint would outlast a heim?


One more thing, all you guys who are on here every night; why aren't you working / building your rigs?:flipoff2:
Because I built my Jeep the RIGHT way and dont need to spend days working on shit I half assed!

That thing is a hazard. Please don't put children in it. Actually don't put any humans in it. Oh, and don't drive it near any living creatures.

Thanks.

i love this build! keep it coming. it makes me laugh listening to the dumb fuck nasa fabricaters on here! they know it all dont they. there rig is sitting pretty in the garage because they dont know how to wheel it. they never give it a chance to break. CAUSE THERE SKARED. ill ride with you.

i love this build! keep it coming. it makes me laugh listening to the dumb fuck nasa fabricaters on here! they know it all dont they. there rig is sitting pretty in the garage because they dont know how to wheel it. they never give it a chance to break. CAUSE THERE SKARED. ill ride with you.

Sharp as a bowling ball. Good luck with that.

as hard headed as a bowling ball!:laughing:

Have you considered using stacked frames?

Commander tilt front end 12" bodylift from ck5 can help you do that one. Without welding too!

While I applaud your ambition, I have to wonder about one thing.
If you couldn't keep it together with leaf springs ( one of the most easy to repair and durable setups out there), how are you going to keep it together with the new setup?
The new setup is 10x more complicated, without gaining much, if not losing, durability.

The thing that bothered me most was the outragous axle wrap. The springs were stock junk. I like 3-4 links 'cause the axle travels much better. Leaves lean & twist. Plus, it puts the power down 10x better. (now I'm going to get flamed from all the leaf guys:flipoff2:)

This should be in the "what not to do forum"! Please do not attempt to say that this has its place in budget builds.

Are you joking an offset diff with a centered t case?

Tractor hiems? Funky welds?

Lets get really here, if you were my friend I wouldn't wheel with you!

When I built my jeep I had a shitty job aswell, I saved up, and wheeled my jeep stock untill I could gather up enough money to build it correctly. And yes I built my jeep myself!

As far as a "real build" you have to be joking, I get more pissed off everytime I see this post!

The worst part is the people defending the naysayers! Please do not promote this type of low budget build. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

i love this build! keep it coming. it makes me laugh listening to the dumb fuck nasa fabricaters on here! they know it all dont they. there rig is sitting pretty in the garage because they dont know how to wheel it. they never give it a chance to break. CAUSE THERE SKARED. ill ride with you.

I'd love to tear up some of that TX clay but that's a long haul. I will be in Austin in 3 weeks. Come down & I'll buy you a beer. Know of any good places there?

This should be in the "what not to do forum"! Please do not attempt to say that this has its place in budget builds.

Are you joking an offset diff with a centered t case?

Tractor hiems? Funky welds?

Lets get really here, if you were my friend I wouldn't wheel with you!

When I built my jeep I had a shitty job aswell, I saved up, and wheeled my jeep stock untill I could gather up enough money to build it correctly. And yes I built my jeep myself!

As far as a "real build" you have to be joking, I get more pissed off everytime I see this post!

The worst part is the people defending the naysayers! Please do not promote this type of low budget build. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Can you give me one reason why you can't run an offset rear w/ a 205? I realize you're in the land of the rice-burner but I'm sure you can find a lifted truck to look at. Check out the drive line angle and turn your head sideways. Wow, it looks the same:flipoff2:
Funky welds? What's funky about them? Are you certified welder? Have you ever welded anything thicker than 1/4"? Which weld's are you talking about? How about the rear end? I welded that with dual-shield on the joint mounts and tri-mix on the rest. It looks like a robot weld. Maybe it's funky to you 'cause you don't know what a real weld looks like.
You can knock anything and it doesn't bother me but knocking my welding pisses me off. If you saw bad welds in any pix, they must have been the previous owner. I'm not completly sure about the tractor joints but I'll bet you pinks that nothing else in this 3-link will come undone.

We'll Santa Cruz is more like the land of the "grass burner" but either way, 6013 is pretty damn strong, I used it to weld my 1/2" track bar mounts, and I used my Miller 175 for everthing 1/4" and below. The pictures may just show them bad, but those welds most likly won't let go, SMAW really is the way to go for strength.

I actually have taken college courses on welding, and I concider myself to be quite a good welder, not to mention that I have been welding since I was 15. As far as the pictures you posted, I didn't see any machine welds, thus the reason for my comment "funky welds".

This is like seeing a 23' t bucket from a distance and when you get up to it, there is a 350 in it.

Oh I almost forgot, read this, info about having an offset rear:

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=652371&highlight=offset+axle

But you probably new that.

I had a better thread, but couldn't find it.

Then, I made the lower links out of 3" schedule 180 pipe and 1" tractor heims from the local tractor supply (cost so far (I spent the profit from the parts sale on beer, oil and new lights for the shop): $26). On the other end of the lowers, I welded pieces of tube that contain Procomp bushings ($20).
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1199.jpg

The wishbone I also made from stuff that was laying around. I did buy another 1" tractor heim and 2 weld-in 3/4 heims (about $20).
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1198.jpg

I made the mountings also from stuff laying around (all 1/4" or better when needed). Also, all mounts are gusseted and/or braced. Lowers use 1" tractor pins all the way around. The wishbone is bolted in the front and uses a tractor pin on the axle. That way, I can have the rear end out in no time. By only having one end adjustable, I cut my cost in half (which wasn't much) and I don't have to worry about a jam-nut getting lose and knocking my alignment out.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1201.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1202.jpg
Holy booty fab batman!

I'd love to tear up some of that TX clay but that's a long haul. I will be in Austin in 3 weeks. Come down & I'll buy you a beer. Know of any good places there?

your damn right i know some good places. 3 weeks is that the last weekend in feb? we have our annual sand drag and rock climb here in amarillo. you should make it out here. there will be more mud, blood and beer than you can imagine along with some dirt bags showing there titties. its badass!

I look forward to seeing how this set-up works. I think, if it holds together well, it is fine for an off-road only rig (assuming he will have good safety equipment).

I know many of you are the all mighty, and don't wish to argue either way with you. I will think it is very cool if he wheels the piss out of this and it holds up.


Cowchip, keep us updated (if nothin else, it gives the hatters somthin to pick at).


sharpmachine

your damn right i know some good places. 3 weeks is that the last weekend in feb? we have our annual sand drag and rock climb here in amarillo. you should make it out here. there will be more mud, blood and beer than you can imagine along with some dirt bags showing there titties. its badass!

mud + blood + beer + dirt bags showin titties = dirty drunken pro-creation:smokin:

Cowchip, every weld in post #83 is a COMPLETE ABORTION! Your statements along with the pics make me believe those are your welds. What are we missing? You can defend "tractor links" if you want, but those welds are not defendable.

Are you joking an offset diff with a centered t case?

Can I ask what is so wrong about this? I've read many Samurai builds using a centered Toy rear axle with the pass offset t-case, and they hold up for both street and trail use...how would a centered t-case and offset diff be any different?

<end hijack>

I've used tractor joints in a few feild / demoderby cars that i've rode HARD, and they have always held up. i've have a factory VW ball joint blow out on a figure 8 track, and we booty fabbed up a tractor heim and it held no problems.

but as for your welds......
i am a TIG cert welder, and some of those welds are just nasty looking, but others are not too bad. i figure your not useing a 120v welder, i hope not at least, so as long your buring those welds nice a deep and not getting to much porosity in those welds, it should hold.

I've down worse looking booger welds, upside-down lyeing on a rope ladder, and for our puropses they held.

and you stated already your only flogging this thing around the back yard, and not on the road.
so beat the living snot of this thing and let us know what goes first.

I would venture to bet these fabs skills would not support a spare tire carrier, let alone a suspension.

I would venture to bet these fabs skills would not support a spare tire carrier, let alone a suspension.

i would venture to bet your fab skills would not support a spare tire carrier.:flipoff2:

i would venture to bet your fab skills would not support a spare tire carrier.:flipoff2:

PACK SAND BIOTCH!

Oh I almost forgot, read this, info about having an offset rear:

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=652371&highlight=offset+axle

But you probably new that.

I had a better thread, but couldn't find it.

I did see this one. I also talked to tons of people. I think I even had a thread on here asking if anyone had done this and how it worked. The only advantage (I use that loosely) is that I can run a slightly longer drive shaft (= more travel). I'm already shopping for another set of axles (front & rear). I don't expect this set to last very long.
I guess I should have looked at the pix I posted before I posted last night. You can't see any welds very well. The ones you can see look worse than they are. I can assure you they will hold. I won't tell you where I work but we do a lot of heavy-duty aftermarket welding. I do know what it takes to make a good weld. Most of the wheelers I know think pretty=strong. If you really want to inspect my welds, I can take more pix. I'd rather take pix after I beat the snot out of this thing and show the results.

" mud + blood + beer + dirt bags showin titties = dirty drunken pro-creation "

Hell yeah sounds like my kind of party! :grinpimp:

offset rear info.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=604466

peace
Dave

a few of those welds really look like they need ground down and gone over though... bad.

a few of those welds really look like they need ground down and gone over though... bad.

2 problems; grinding welds weakens the "base" of the weld. Also, "going over" a weld introduces contaminants into the weld. Unless I could weld a straight weld, I did a Z-pattern to maximize weld strength (very rarely do I weld "circles" or anything like it).
I'll have to take some pix to redeem myself. I won't be able to do that till next weekend, I'm in Vegas right now.:D

offset rear info.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=604466

peace
Dave

That's kinda the answers I've been getting all along. I don't plan on keeping this rear end, either way. I don't remember how far off I am but I'm kinda hoping it breaks (seems like that's the only way I can get my wife to OK anything over $100). The drive shaft I found is a good custom made deal that has a ton of splines and is far from binding. When I find the final rear end, I'll keep that shaft due to it's obvious strength (no pix yet).

2 , I'm in Vegas right now.:D



i thought i smelled bootyfab in the air tonight






:flipoff2::flipoff2:

Can't ya'll see he is just bulding something to beat the shit out of not caring if it breaks. Let the man build his rig and wheel it hard, then judge him. I am interested in the airborne strength testing.

Can't ya'll see he is just bulding something to beat the shit out of not caring if it breaks. Let the man build his rig and wheel it hard, then judge him. I am interested in the airborne strength testing.

Your fucking stupid. The point is build it right . When your putting your family's life in danger it is different. I don't understand people standing up for this guy when his hack shit is gonna get somebody hurt. It is his job to do things right. The people that ride with him will have no clue it is going to break until it is to late.That is just not cool.

Reguardless whether the tractor heim will hold up why don't you just get a better heim or JJ?? I mean can you not dish out an extra 10-15 bucks to farthermore insure against a catastrophic failure??? I mean come one.. if some many people tell you something, who have been in this hobby for a long time and wheel really hard.. shouldn't you listen? And so what if your not "hard-core" that doesn't mean you have to build your rig to the spec of "well it will hold up to how I wheel it" Thats just the wrong mentality....something should be built so it will always last.. not just be capable of passing w/o breaking...

With that said.. thats a shit ton of thread sticking out of hte heim in my opinion... double nutting it will not help the fact that all that surface area is another potential place to have it snap... Also aren't you supposed to use misalignemnt washers and an actual bolt when building a 4 link since the heim will have a lot of rotational movement??? I see that as being another problem that will cuase your suspension to bind up... Also I really don't understand why you used cross pins instead of bolts...

And that frame mount.. eh it will probably hold but if it was me.. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night without at least a better weld thats not choppy and extening it up the frame some more so it has more support...

Also.. a side note... some of you say... well you build your stuff to be stronger than it needs to be and an overkill... IDK about you guys.. but I drive my wheeler to the trails... its not a DD... but still sees highway... I went Moab last summer... 1300 miles away.... If me having to spend 100 bucks more here an there, or weld something better or support it better or design it better is what it will take for me to get there and home safely w/o breaking than thats what I'll do... Plus even if you trailer it.. whats the fun of breaking and then having to fix on the trail which won't be easy and probably dumping more into the thing than if you initially built it better...

MIke.

Can't ya'll see he is just bulding something to beat the shit out of not caring if it breaks. Let the man build his rig and wheel it hard, then judge him. I am interested in the airborne strength testing.

That's what I'm talkin about. You know everyone wants to see it fly. I'll video tape it and post it (if I can figure out how). Nobody likes it when stuff breaks but it sure is fun trying (if you're not afraid).
I'm just glad I didn't try my 1st idea. I really get lit up. I was going to build inverted top-links. I've never heard of anyone doing it but it would have some advantages over a conventional 3 or 4 link. Maybe I'll try it after I get tired (or break) this set up.
There's nothing more booring than a bolt-together stuff. Anyone can put bolts in holes. The challange is to have a vision, design it, build it and USE IT. Hell, I think I might name it "Booty Fab". I kinda like it.

Fuck yeah. Bootyfab is a great name. Keep those blue link bars. fuckin' cracks me up man. If you video tape the launch I'll upload it for you. Assuming you prove everyone wrong and live through it.

first... holy fucking shit... yes that is some fucked up backwoods hilljack engineering...
B... this is a farm beater... for everyone who says build it right... well... he is... this thing is supposed to be cheap and replaceable... it's not ment to be towed to parks or trails anywhere... it's ment to be beaten in his fields... yes it's unsafe... but it's in a field for christs sake...
there are dangers involved in most sports... so why be a sissy about getting hurt... if you're afraid of getting hurt... well stick to playing rummy and drinking your diet coke on sat. night...

and unless you are planning on building a farm beater don't build like this...

Please elaborate on "inverted top links"?

Please elaborate on "inverted top links"?

by inverted he means up his ass after he crashes it on its maiden voyage.

first... holy fucking shit... yes that is some fucked up backwoods hilljack engineering...
B... this is a farm beater... for everyone who says build it right... well... he is... this thing is supposed to be cheap and replaceable... it's not ment to be towed to parks or trails anywhere... it's ment to be beaten in his fields... yes it's unsafe... but it's in a field for christs sake...
there are dangers involved in most sports... so why be a sissy about getting hurt... if you're afraid of getting hurt... well stick to playing rummy and drinking your diet coke on sat. night...

and unless you are planning on building a farm beater don't build like this...

And you are just as stupid as the original poster. I wheel for fun. Not to try to be a dumbass , and kill myself. The jeep looked good before this guy hacked it up. What is pirate coming to when all these stupid people post this , see nothing wrong with it , and ever other hillrod comes and sticks up for him. WTF http://rustybucket4x4.freeforums.org/files/rustybucket4x4/smilies/wtf.gif

This build is retarded, I have seen those tractor heims develop insane amounts of slop. Thats just on a bushhog that might get used 20 days out of the year. Not to mention how soft the shanks are.

And your welding sucks.
________
Hotstuff live (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/Hotstuff)

What is pirate coming to when all these stupid people post this , see nothing wrong with it , and ever other hillrod comes and sticks up for him. WTF http://rustybucket4x4.freeforums.org/files/rustybucket4x4/smilies/wtf.gif




Thank you. What the hell are you backwoods idiots doing on this board anyway? That thing is straight ghetto no matter how you look at it and the fact that you slept with your sister does not make it OK to build such an abomination.

Have you considered cleaning loaded guns prior to finding "fabrication" as your specialty? That comparison might mean I am a "rummy playing and Diet Coke-drinking sissy" because I would rather not die from stupidity.

Seriously stop defending this assclown.

can't you read dude... i'm not sticking up for the fucked up engineering... i'm sticking up for the fact that some people build shit just to beat the fuck out of and break it...

if he was talking shit about building a decent wheeler... well i wouldn't have said a word, because it would just be stupid...

not everyone builds shit not to break... being a recovering mountain folk i understand where this dude is coming from...

if i saw it on the trails some where i'd shake my head and stay away from it... if i saw it in a field some where i'd shake my head and laugh...

2 problems; grinding welds weakens the "base" of the weld. Also, "going over" a weld introduces contaminants into the weld.


Never been a problem for me in the real world or a test booth :confused:

by inverted he means up his ass after he crashes it on its maiden voyage.
Nice one but incorrect. I was thinking about running shorter links, top and bottom. Then, run the top links from the axle to the back of the frame. This would solve 2 problems; I wouldn't have to build link mounts around the x-fer and the pinion would track better.


Thank you. What the hell are you backwoods idiots doing on this board anyway? That thing is straight ghetto no matter how you look at it and the fact that you slept with your sister does not make it OK to build such an abomination.

Have you considered cleaning loaded guns prior to finding "fabrication" as your specialty? That comparison might mean I am a "rummy playing and Diet Coke-drinking sissy" because I would rather not die from stupidity.

Seriously stop defending this assclown.

I love this, someone from Chico calling me backwoods.
BTW- I grew up in Paradise/Chico, maybe that's where I got it.

can't you read dude... i'm not sticking up for the fucked up engineering... i'm sticking up for the fact that some people build shit just to beat the fuck out of and break it...

if he was talking shit about building a decent wheeler... well i wouldn't have said a word, because it would just be stupid...

not everyone builds shit not to break... being a recovering mountain folk i understand where this dude is coming from...

if i saw it on the trails some where i'd shake my head and stay away from it... if i saw it in a field some where i'd shake my head and laugh...

No matter what defending it in one location is stay saying it is ok.

[QUOTE=Cowchip500;7839216]Nice one but incorrect. I was thinking about running shorter links, top and bottom. Then, run the top links from the axle to the back of the frame. This would solve 2 problems; I wouldn't have to build link mounts around the x-fer and the pinion would track better.
QUOTE]
Well now, that's just brilliant! You should combine that with the mono-coil setup and throw a patent on it!

insert sarcasm here

I actually remember seeing a Jeep in a mag awhile back that had an inverted... think it was a 3 link on the front, and the wishbone came down of the front of the frame to the front side top of the axle and the rears ran like normal, the Vehicle actually seemed to do really well, of course I just saw it in pictures and have no real world experience with any setups of this kinda just thought I would mention that a similar idea has been done and seemed effective

I'm not gonna say anything for or against this contraption, but whats the logic behind using 6013 rods. Thats a low penetration rod, with 1/4 or 5/16 you have to have the heat crazy high to have decent penetration. A 6011 would seem a much better choice. It looks like you have enough weld surface that it will probably survive but still...

6013 'cause I have a shit load of it. I can blow holes in 1/2" with my welder. I didn't use rod on anything important. All of that is dual-shield.

I actually remember seeing a Jeep in a mag awhile back that had an inverted... think it was a 3 link on the front, and the wishbone came down of the front of the frame to the front side top of the axle and the rears ran like normal, the Vehicle actually seemed to do really well, of course I just saw it in pictures and have no real world experience with any setups of this kinda just thought I would mention that a similar idea has been done and seemed effective

See, I may be crazy but I'm not insane. Fab police, please take note.

See, I may be crazy but I'm not insane. Fab police, please take note.

Are you saying have your uppers attached at the rear, and your lowers at the front (or vice versa depending on which end you're talking about)?

I actually remember seeing a Jeep in a mag awhile back that had an inverted...

Found an article in Off Road Adventures (PIC from article)
Hallenbeck’s Rotary Rocket
http://www.oramagazine.com/pastissues/0505-issue/050507f-rotary-rocket.html
http://www.oramagazine.com/images/0505-may/050507f-rotary-rocket/04photo02.jpg
Attaching the rear Toybox to the Stalker chassis is a four-link suspension. The upper links are centered and triangulated to the chassis while the lower links are mounted in an inverted position. The inverted lower links maximize ground clearance and act as rocksliders when clearing obstacles.

Cant see much in that pic, but similar idea?

It sounds like the OP is saying attach links behind the axle (or in front for the front axle) unless I am completely misunderstanding what he is saying. That picture looks like a triangulated 4 link to me. The article is from 4wheelparts (their magazine), so I'm sure they have no idea wtf triangulated 4 link means.

I dont know, the way I read it I thought he was talking about the infamous "Z" link? maybe I read it way wrong.

If you are a certified welder for a large fab company, then you know that 6013 is farmer rod and not worth a shit. just because you have a shit load of it does not mean that you have to use it. Get the 7018 out and put some real welds on before you go bragging on them. Also, if your welder will blow holes in 1/2" the you should be able to run the 7018 so get some and then show us what you can do with that.

it may be booty fab, but a least it was cheap:shaking:

if you are going to take the time to fab something up, at least take the time to make it look like you gave a shit about it

if you are stickin' it then 7018 is your best all around rod, 6013 brings the suck!

wheel it and have a good time.

If you are a certified welder for a large fab company, then you know that 6013 is farmer rod and not worth a shit. just because you have a shit load of it does not mean that you have to use it. Get the 7018 out and put some real welds on before you go bragging on them. Also, if your welder will blow holes in 1/2" the you should be able to run the 7018 so get some and then show us what you can do with that.

You must have skipped over the "dual-shield" part of my post. Since when is 6013 not worth a shit? Sure there's rod that's EASIER to weld with, but strength-wise, there's little to no difference if done right. I can use 6013 on everything from sheet-metal to 5/8". Not that I want to, but when it's free....
There's not much rod welding on my rig, anyway. Everyone thinks they're a welding expert 'cause they got a "B" in high-school metal shop. Until, you've spent years welding truck frames or something like it, I'm not impressed by these guys who have a ton of expensive equipment and weld on clean, virgin metal (or had their buddy do it for them). Try welding through dirt and rust, if it can hold 20k+lbs, you have my respect.
I cleaned off any dirt/rust on this rig, but I've done it plenty when there was no other option and NEVER had a weld fail. Again; pretty doesn't = strong. It's all about penetration:smokin:

Found an article in Off Road Adventures (PIC from article)
Hallenbeck’s Rotary Rocket
http://www.oramagazine.com/pastissues/0505-issue/050507f-rotary-rocket.html
http://www.oramagazine.com/images/0505-may/050507f-rotary-rocket/04photo02.jpg


Cant see much in that pic, but similar idea?

No, I can't see what exactly that is, but I think it's a double-triangulated 4-link. I was thinking about running the top links from the axle (rear axle) to the back of the frame (which isn't much). This theroy should also save U-joints and require less slip.
I'm sure someone has thought of it, only, I've never seen/heard of it.

Okay well to clear up what i was talking about, it wasn't like that one posted up it, it does appear to be a double triangulated , the one I was talking about actually had the front upper links running from underneath the bumper area, down to the front axle and the lowers were ran in a standard config..... it looked kinda like one of those pre-runner skids on the front...
(kinda as in to give you an idea where it was coming from) but as stated before I just saw stills in a mag and have no idea how things worked with it and such, but everything appeared to be alright, then again never really seen anyone else running it since then so maybe it wasn't all that great, lol

Yep, that sounds like the idea. The big down-side to that set up is; you lose angle of attack. The longer the arms, the more you lose. I'm running my uppers at 70% and my lowers are 46" (I think. I can't remember now). This would have made my uppers hang out farther than long leaves if I inverted the wishbone. If I was mud racing or something where I didn't need any suspension travel, I'd run less than 70%.
IF this set up turns out to be successful, I'll link the front end and run the lowers to the same mounts that the rear lowers are on. Strength wise, I think this would be tough to beat.
Another idea I had was to eliminate the uppers all together and use some sort of sliding deal. I don't know what that would be, since I haven't seen anything that would work (an industrial application, I guess). That would control lateral movement as well. Maybe something like a double wishbone or IFS type. Just ideas. Don't anyone panic. It's wheelin, not foreign policy.

That's what I thought you were saying....think about it for a second. At full droop, your pinion angle would increase substantially...and at full compression, you would have a severe negative pinion angle. I don't think those are characteristics that are going to work for you very well.

sounds like he needs to practice with a straw and toothpicks glued to it to simulate his links first :P

howyadoin is absolutely right

That's what I thought you were saying....think about it for a second. At full droop, your pinion angle would increase substantially...and at full compression, you would have a severe negative pinion angle. I don't think those are characteristics that are going to work for you very well.

Why would pinion angle increase substantially? That would depend on the length of the links (same as a conventional set up). If they were long enough, you'd have very little change in pinion angle, only the pinion would move in the correct direction (up) during droop. A conventional set up does the opposite.

sounds like he needs to practice with a straw and toothpicks glued to it to simulate his links first :P

howyadoin is absolutely right

Actually, you're close. My kid's erector set & a set of claipers to make it to scale. It's a good way to see exactly how it will move.
Now, watch the flames.

Why would pinion angle increase substantially? That would depend on the length of the links (same as a conventional set up). If they were long enough, you'd have very little change in pinion angle, only the pinion would move in the correct direction (up) during droop. A conventional set up does the opposite.

Bust out the erector set, do some research, and get back to me with your results...I already know the outcome.

So basically your rigs going to look like those rigs in Iceland with the big ass boom sticking out so you don't fall into crevices? :eek: Cause thats how far that shits going to stick out to make the uppers long enough to function correctly.

Tell me this, because I see these debates turn into conflicts consistantly on this board.

Are you the type of person who thinks they know everything about everything. And anytime somebody confronts you with a suggestion your ignorance kicks in and you defend shit that deep down you know is wrong, purely because you won't/can't admit that you were wrong and it should be fixed or that there is a better way of doing it? Cause I have buddies like this, and you can't even try to innocently help them, so I've just stopped trying. The sad thing is I'll still feel guilty if one of their contraptions kills/severely injures one of them. Even more so if its an innocent bystander.

Here's an example: To up the anty on the truck we're building the one says he's just gonna strap 2.5 ton rocks to his leafs on his YJ. I feel really sorry for that oil pan already. :shaking: Or he'll prolly just make it sit so damn high a 20mph wind will blow it over. :flipoff2: Nevermind they aren't going to beef a damn thing up to hold those monsters.

Alot of intelligent people here have tried to help, who gives a shit if it was offensive. If they didn't care about you or your rig they wouldn't have said anything. Take your fawking blinders off man, and I mean that with all due respect. Some of your stuff sounds/looks alright, but there is also some concerning issues.

A z link wont work on a rig. you can try if you would like. Just be sure to mash the gas the first time it starts to cycle the suspension.

I guess 18 union contractors that I have papers to weld for think that I don't know anything. I have welded in probably worse than what you have so don't tell anything about welding. Point being that tensile strength with 6013 is not what 7018 is. Dual shield is good in the proper application. I didn't get a "B" in high school, and I don't have expensive equipment at home in the shop. But I am certified to weld from carbon steel to hastalloy and titanium.

everybody is somebody in the world of pirate 4x4.....i am certified to weld crutonium....i dont know what it is but since you dont know me i say im certified.

im a certified b/s feeder.. Does that count for anything?

I certify that this thread is fawked up! :homer:

It's good for entertainment purposes though.

So basically your rigs going to look like those rigs in Iceland with the big ass boom sticking out so you don't fall into crevices? :eek: Cause thats how far that shits going to stick out to make the uppers long enough to function correctly.

Tell me this, because I see these debates turn into conflicts consistantly on this board.

Are you the type of person who thinks they know everything about everything. And anytime somebody confronts you with a suggestion your ignorance kicks in and you defend shit that deep down you know is wrong, purely because you won't/can't admit that you were wrong and it should be fixed or that there is a better way of doing it? Cause I have buddies like this, and you can't even try to innocently help them, so I've just stopped trying. The sad thing is I'll still feel guilty if one of their contraptions kills/severely injures one of them. Even more so if its an innocent bystander.

Here's an example: To up the anty on the truck we're building the one says he's just gonna strap 2.5 ton rocks to his leafs on his YJ. I feel really sorry for that oil pan already. :shaking: Or he'll prolly just make it sit so damn high a 20mph wind will blow it over. :flipoff2: Nevermind they aren't going to beef a damn thing up to hold those monsters.

Alot of intelligent people here have tried to help, who gives a shit if it was offensive. If they didn't care about you or your rig they wouldn't have said anything. Take your fawking blinders off man, and I mean that with all due respect. Some of your stuff sounds/looks alright, but there is also some concerning issues.

How long are your uppers? Why would they have to be longer just because they're inverted? I haven't seen anyone here that has seen a set up like this before. Only guys insisting it won't work. This makes me want to try it, just to see how it would perform. Yes, I have built a prototype and, other than the attack angle, it looks like it would out perform anything I've seen other than IRS.
I don't pretend to know everything but it seems like all I see in the hard-core forum is guys who say nothing will work but leafs and store-bought link systems. Has anyone ever TRIED something else? Are you so afraid of wrecking your rig that you won't take a chance on something that might work better than what you have? How do you think leafs, links and anything else came to be? Some guy, had to dream it, draw it (on a cocktail napkin), build it, modify it, beat on it, market it, then sell it to you. I'm sure they had people that said it would never work. The first cars had wooden frames because nobody belived that steel would work.
The best thing about a Jeep is that you can beat the crap out of it, cheese it back together and take it out again. How many people that don't think my set up will work have duct-tape holding parts together. How many are missing lug-nuts, air cleaners, etc. How many have taken their rigs out before they were fully repaired from the last thrashing. I doubt anyone will admit it, but I'd bet it's 99%. I live in a 4x Meca and I've never seen a rig head up to Rainier that was 100% ready to go.
Now, back to the welding:shaking:
For those of you that missed it the first 50 times; NOTHING CRITICAL WAS WELDED WITH 6013. That was dual-shield welded. HOWEVER, I KNOW HOW TO WELD DIFFICULT MATERIAL AND I WOULD HAVE USED 6013 IF I HAD NO OTHER OPTION. I'm not saying anyone else should. The reason why NHRA won't certify a MIG welded frame anymore is because PRETTY DOESN'T = STRONG. Going back over welds to doll them up as well as other "tricks" people think is okay, takes away from a welds strength. If you can weld sufficent density and penetration with 6013, you have a weld that's just as strong as the material you're welding to. 6011, 7018 or anything else someone told you about won't magically make a weld stronger. I know plenty of union welders that I'd never let weld a curb-feeler on my lawn-mower (that's a whole other thread).
My son's high-school welding class is following this thread now, so I have to watch my language, but damn, give a guy a chance. If I pile this thing up, I'll drag it back in with the tractor and go back to the drawing board. Has anyone here ridden a motorcycle, bull, bronc or green horse? Well, I have all 4 and last time I checked, none of them had a roll cage and harness. I don't consider myself reckless but if I do get killed, I don't want to be like Elvis. Know what I mean? Get off your ass and do something fun. :D

your a freekin idiot. obviously the upper and lower arms have to be simular in length in order for the suspension to work and not bind. if you have 3' long lower arms going 1 way and 1 foot inverted uppers going the other way the suspension will obviously bind and not work.
the whole point for people bashing you is because you are wasting your time on something that is going to fall apart. but, it appears you like to waist your time, build something to fail just to rebuild it. i guess that why you are using lower than shadetree mechanic skills to build something with no real investment. if it doesn't cost you anything to build it, then its no waste of money. just your time that you seam to have a lot of.

Man. Daytime soaps don't even come close to this kind of drama!!!

your a freekin idiot. obviously the upper and lower arms have to be simular in length in order for the suspension to work and not bind. if you have 3' long lower arms going 1 way and 1 foot inverted uppers going the other way the suspension will obviously bind and not work.
the whole point for people bashing you is because you are wasting your time on something that is going to fall apart. but, it appears you like to waist your time, build something to fail just to rebuild it. i guess that why you are using lower than shadetree mechanic skills to build something with no real investment. if it doesn't cost you anything to build it, then its no waste of money. just your time that you seam to have a lot of.

Dude, okay, I haven't insulted anyone on here, but YOU sound like a freekin idiot. You claim to be the prez of the goat-herders 4x of WY or whatever and you don't even know what % top links should be? This is about as basic as it gets.
Real slow, for you;

IT

IS

70

%
Here's some advice. Sell your Gator (or whatever you wheel) and get cable TV (I forgot, you're in WY). Get a dish. You're using up valuable leaf springs that guys who enjoy JPs could use. All I've ever seen you post on pirate is how everyone else is an idiot. Dude, you're a bummer. I'll send you some Prozac. Find another thread to piss in.

I can't wait to see this thing done, I for one think it'll be alright for the purpose its intended for. im really looking forward to the pics and possibly video of this thing in action. its gonna be great when it actually holds up, then all the flamers will magically dissapear. whens this supposed to be done anyways? I haven't seen any progress in a while.

My uppers are 75&#37; of my lowers and they work fine in my simulated tests :D but close enough... the inverted uppers wont work on extra long travel suspensions because of th differences in the arcs of the two directions that the arms will swing. the uppers being on top of the axle will pull the top of the houseing away from the arc of the lowers pulling towards the front. the motion will pivot the top back and the bottom up. if they didnt do that... they would bind and the down travel would be stopped.

and yes i realize we're discussing this for fact and not that youre actually gonna do it.

Your welds will prolly hold. the tractor heims will prolly be ok... i just like arguing :D

just please please please tell me you arent gonn aleave that much thread out and youll sleeve the two ends to make them longer rather than makin up the difference with that 4 ft heim.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1198.jpg

No, I had just threaded it in a little to paint it. I'm actually thinking about building a different wishbone (after I test this one). I think this one may allow too much roll or latteral movement.
I haven't posted much progress lately 'cause I haven't done anything interesting. I hope to have this wrapped up within a month or so. I have trade shows for the next 2 weeks (Vegas this week:p) so I can only work on it on the weekends. Once they're done, I'm slammin on this thing. Also, my boys have been sneeking on here and they're pumped up by the flamers and want to help. This has been the most fun build I've ever done (and the most hair-brain). Thanks for everyone's support. I'd buy ya all a beer when it's done but I don't get around that much.

I'm a 26 year old Design Engineer in an agricultural field with 3 patents already. So I'd be a hyprocrate for criticizing you for trying something new. Don't believe me I don't care, just stating this so you gain some perspective on my work ethic/style.

That said, get out a piece of paper. Scale everything down and start drawing some circles represent your linkage travel (you only care about the radius'). This will be much easier than using an erector set. If you know the distance as the crow flies from where your linkages will connect on your axle. You cans simply measure that distance between the two arcs to calculate pinion angle thru the transition. If you want your pinion to point up on down travel rather than rotating down like a four link. Why don't you just do a 3 link y link with a panhard?

As a link travels on a circle it has a delta x and delta y, or (x,y) coordinates. If your uppers length if much shorter than the lower is going to transition inward quicker therefore drawing the pinion up rapidly with very little downtravel. Draw up a sketch with your vehicle and axle position and ride height. Give us a sketch of what your talking about dimensionally, because right now this verbal garbage isn't accomplishing anything productive.

You posted up on this forum to show people your build. In doing so you should know that you will receive criticism, at times its negligible or goes too far. But I would highly suggest that you take advantage of the wealth of knowledge here rather than disregarding it. Just my .02.

stfu all anyone has said is "how stupid it is", "how it will never work", "your an idiot", "what the fuck are you thinking." that doesnt sound like a wealth of knowledge to me. since your an engineer in the ag field why dont you tell us if those heims will work or not?

Problem with your inverted concept stated yet another way!:shaking:
I see the lower part of the axle pulling forward (re: rear axle) with the lowers mounted toward the front of the chassis. I see the upper portion of the axle pulling rearward since the upper links are attached above the lowers. At full droop, this would cause the pinion to raise drastically, and at full compression, would cause the pinion to drop drastically. The seperation (at the axle) of the mounting points is a fixed distance which is what causes all of the geometry issues in the first place.
Can you not seriously figure this out in your mind? If not, draw it on "a cocktail napkin". As far as your comments regarding "hardcore, leaf springs, and bolt-ons", is this your first day here? There are a ton of competent fabricators on this board that have a wealth of knowledge, you can choose to take it or leave it, and frankly I don't care. The fact that you can't understand simple mechanical principles (apparently) and are a big fan of "booger" welds certainly leads me to believe you are not very competent.
Just my .02.:shaking: (btw, I think the tractor joints are absolutely the least of your issues)

just quoting for repetition purposes... maybe the idea that its bad will catch on eventually :D
My uppers are 75% of my lowers and they work fine in my simulated tests :D but close enough... the inverted uppers wont work on extra long travel suspensions because of th differences in the arcs of the two directions that the arms will swing. the uppers being on top of the axle will pull the top of the houseing away from the arc of the lowers pulling towards the front. the motion will pivot the top back and the bottom up. if they didnt do that... they would bind and the down travel would be stopped.

and yes i realize we're discussing this for fact and not that youre actually gonna do it.

Your welds will prolly hold. the tractor heims will prolly be ok... i just like arguing :D

just quoting for repetition purposes... maybe the idea that its bad will catch on eventually:D
Problem with your inverted concept stated yet another way!:shaking:
I see the lower part of the axle pulling forward (re: rear axle) with the lowers mounted toward the front of the chassis. I see the upper portion of the axle pulling rearward since the upper links are attached above the lowers. At full droop, this would cause the pinion to raise drastically, and at full compression, would cause the pinion to drop drastically. The seperation (at the axle) of the mounting points is a fixed distance which is what causes all of the geometry issues in the first place.
Can you not seriously figure this out in your mind? If not, draw it on "a cocktail napkin". As far as your comments regarding "hardcore, leaf springs, and bolt-ons", is this your first day here? There are a ton of competent fabricators on this board that have a wealth of knowledge, you can choose to take it or leave it, and frankly I don't care. The fact that you can't understand simple mechanical principles (apparently) and are a big fan of "booger" welds certainly leads me to believe you are not very competent.
Just my .02.:shaking: (btw, I think the tractor joints are absolutely the least of your issues)

We can only hope!:D

stfu all anyone has said is "how stupid it is", "how it will never work", "your an idiot", "what the fuck are you thinking." that doesnt sound like a wealth of knowledge to me. since your an engineer in the ag field why dont you tell us if those heims will work or not?

If you knew anything about how engineering works, you'd know those were designed, spec'd then purchased from a vender. As well the field of agricultural development is far broader than 3 point heim ends. :shaking:

So why don't you take your own advice and stfu. If you want sugar coated comments then seek existance elsewhere than the PBB.

I tried drawing up the inverted uppers in photoshop, and it looked like the axle was going to rotate way too much through the travel. And when one side of the axle compressed and the other drooped I couldn't even guess what would happen. You have one side trying to rotate one direction, the other side the opposite direction. I really don't see any improvement what so ever over a traditional 4-link setup.

I wouldn't even begin fabbing this one up without a scale model of some kind to see if it would even work. Back when buggy leaves were innovative and the scorpion was the baddest thing around, I might have thought this might be an option. But I don't think I've ever seen a set up like this before, which just might tell you something.

Maybe I'm wrong and this will be the next baddest thing, but I'll let the next guy worry about the geometry.

I'm on vacation next week and have way too much to do, so this is all the time I can devote to this, got about 30 minutes in this. Yah, I know I could optimize link lengths etc better, the wishbone is 32" and the mains are 36". I would really need to set some better constraints, this thing articulates like one crazy mofo on the screen! :flipoff2:

Top pic = droop
Bottom pic = squat

That is awesome.

Next theory please.

:shaking:

I actually have taken college courses on welding, and I concider myself to be quite a good welder, not to mention that I have been welding since I was 15.

Let me guess, you also have a 12" cock, a supermodel girlfriend, and a mansion on the hills. Bragging about how good you can weld is almost as bad as building a piece of shit rig and claiming your shit DOES stink, which is what this guy has done in this thread (cowchip). Shut the fuck up and stop bringing this thread back to the top, dipshit. :shaking::flipoff2:

I think the rig sucks too :D but he didn't say he is building a rockcrawler for UROC. Or did he? :eek:

Roxroes,
That's awesome. What if you increase the lengths of the links? wouldn't that reduce the pinion movement?
I love the exchange of ideas and listen to them. However, I'm 3/4 of the way done on this rig and I really think it will work. I used formulas found on here and other sites. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm just trying to build my own "wheel" for less money. As I've said all along, if this thing breaks or handles like crap, I'll have a good laugh and post the pix. Some people on here sound like they're against trying anything new. They say I'll be killed, blah, blah, blah. Let's see what happens. I don't say that with a sarcastic tone. Maybe I'm totally wrong, it will fall apart when I turn the key and the gas tank will explode and only leave a wet-spot where I was sitting. If that happens, I'll have my widdow post the pix. I promise I won't go easy when I test this thing. I want to push it to see where I will break. My guess is that the front end will be my weak-link.
I personally seen products, that are currently on the market, that came from prototypes built from pure scrap. These prototypes are perfectly good for service but look like crap. I know there are several people on this BB that use these products (I won't say which ones).
I wish more people would fab stuff that isn't the norm. There's no better feeling than building something different and seeing it work. Sure it's a gamble but the odds of sucess are much better than the ones I'm facing here in Vegas. I'm going to head down to see if I can win $ for new shocks, now.
As far as my "booger welds"; I looked back at the pix I posted. I can see how you'd think they're boogered. You're seeing the reflection of the camera flash. I used gloss black.
I guess I'll have to take close-up pix of just the welds, to get you guys off my back. Did anyone see the pic of my radiatior tab. You can clearly see the weld in that pic. Do you consider that a booger?

wow, I can't see that inverted link setup working very well. I could see how it would flex side to side, but if both tires were compressed the links would be working against the suspension and/ or forcing the pinion downwards right? I am not an expert by any means, but thats just how I see it working, or not working, I guess thats why Ive never seen any one run it before.

Walker Evans ran a similar setup on the front of his S10 rock crawler.
Upper Y-link, 2 points basically right under/behind the front bumper. Ran back to the center of the front axle.
Lowers back to the frame. I can see no way of preventing the bad pinion change.

Low-rider minitrucks do a similar setup. Lowers forward, to the old leaf spring mount.
Uppers rearward, to either the old leaf spring mount, or a crazy-fabbed crossmember with like twists, curls, horns, flames and your club logo in calligraphy. They probably don't realize the pinion change problem since they have .25 inches of travel.

And (I am guessing here) most don't know what a pinion is, why it's angle matters, or if having the angle change during wheel travel is good or bad.

peace
Dave

Let me guess, you also have a 12" cock, a supermodel girlfriend, and a mansion on the hills. Bragging about how good you can weld is almost as bad as building a piece of shit rig and claiming your shit DOES stink, which is what this guy has done in this thread (cowchip). Shut the fuck up and stop bringing this thread back to the top, dipshit. :shaking::flipoff2:

I think the rig sucks too :D but he didn't say he is building a rockcrawler for UROC. Or did he? :eek:

He questioned my ability to see a good weld, and he questioned my ability to weld, therefor I stated my expierence, I don't see anything wrong in that. No I don't have all those things, it would be nice but im not going to lie and say I do.

Also he might not be building it for UROC, but he did say so he can take his family along wheeling.

You also had nothing good to add to this thread, and you brought it back to the top, good job.

Cowchip500 stick with your original design, just use better parts.

Roxroes,
That's awesome. What if you increase the lengths of the links? wouldn't that reduce the pinion movement?
I love the exchange of ideas and listen to them. However, I'm 3/4 of the way done on this rig and I really think it will work

Food for thought, the angle at which the link starts out on on the arc, dictates the motion of travel. Or more simply put the direction the link is going to pull the pinion angle.

This concept coupled with link length can help you optimize performance of you suspension. You really need that front link to draw the pinion up as it compesses which means it needs to start at horizontal at least. Which IMO is going to have drastic measures on ground clearance and attack angle.

In a hurry cause I gotta get back in the shop, so hopefully I got it all right.

Originally Posted by BLT94YJ
Let me guess, you also have a 12" cock, a supermodel girlfriend, and a mansion on the hills. Bragging about how good you can weld is almost as bad as building a piece of shit rig and claiming your shit DOES stink, which is what this guy has done in this thread (cowchip). Shut the fuck up and stop bringing this thread back to the top, dipshit.

I think the rig sucks too but he didn't say he is building a rockcrawler for UROC. Or did he?

dont listen to guys like this have fun drink beer it looks like your having fun. by the way BLT94YJ i bet money that you 94 yj looks like a 6 year old kid put it together lets see you shit box then

I still dont get how 3 linking it is going to cure your problems? You said you were breaking it, where the fuck were you breaking it??? Unless you were snapping leaf springs left and right from too much axle wrap with that killer motor, I dont think this is going to cure ur issues.

He questioned my ability to see a good weld, and he questioned my ability to weld, therefor I stated my expierence, I don't see anything wrong in that. No I don't have all those things, it would be nice but im not going to lie and say I do.

Also he might not be building it for UROC, but he did say so he can take his family along wheeling.

You also had nothing good to add to this thread, and you brought it back to the top, good job.

Cowchip500 stick with your original design, just use better parts.

Ok, I can live with that :flipoff2:

Originally Posted by BLT94YJ
Let me guess, you also have a 12" cock, a supermodel girlfriend, and a mansion on the hills. Bragging about how good you can weld is almost as bad as building a piece of shit rig and claiming your shit DOES stink, which is what this guy has done in this thread (cowchip). Shut the fuck up and stop bringing this thread back to the top, dipshit.

I think the rig sucks too but he didn't say he is building a rockcrawler for UROC. Or did he?

dont listen to guys like this have fun drink beer it looks like your having fun. by the way BLT94YJ i bet money that you 94 yj looks like a 6 year old kid put it together lets see you shit box then

Oh, and now you are gonna flame my rig? My rig is clearly shown in my avatar, its the one going up a rock ledge :flipoff2:

I still dont get how 3 linking it is going to cure your problems? You said you were breaking it, where the fuck were you breaking it??? Unless you were snapping leaf springs left and right from too much axle wrap with that killer motor, I dont think this is going to cure ur issues.

That's exactly what was happening. I tend to have a heavy right foot. The final straw was when I had snapped both leaves, on a hill and had to winch my rear end back in. Plus, I lost all my dental work from the shaking.

Thats just the wrong mentality....something should be built so it will always last.. not just be capable of passing w/o breaking...


wow, show me any product or project that is built to last forever without failure of any kind. Point is that good engineering is a delicate balance between economics and functionality. The whole idea is to get it to pass without breaking and be as economically efficient as possible. Why run a Dana 80 when a Dana 60 is going to work just fine 99.9% of the time. Nothing lasts forever, eventually the Sun is going to turn into a red dwarf class star which means it gets much bigger in diameter. At which point it will turn the earth into BBQ and take all our trucks with it!

That's exactly what was happening. I tend to have a heavy right foot. The final straw was when I had snapped both leaves, on a hill and had to winch my rear end back in. Plus, I lost all my dental work from the shaking.


OUCH :laughing::laughing:

Inverted is basically what Rancho did with there JK long arm kits, and by no means any I sticking up for the fab work this guy is doing.

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6496&g2_serialNumber=2
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6031&g2_serialNumber=2

I'm by no means an expert, but it would seem to me that by having your inverted upper pivot point in the middle of the axle, you wouldn't see as much change in the pinion angle, as say if the pivot point were off set to one side. The same line of thinking in that your rear driveshaft (centered diff) doesn't need ridiculous amounts of slip because the center of the axle doesn't move a whole lot (for crawling). The end of your axle (tire) will see lots of travel while the center of the axle will only see a portion. Given that line of thinking, if one were to run this inverted upper wishbone, the negative affects maybe kept at bay by having the pivot point in the middle of the axle. That being said, if you go launching off of sand dunes and what not, you might start snapping the hell out of driveshafts because the extreme travel (even at the center of the axle) would probably cause the major change in pinion angle. I could see it working for rockcrawling maybe. I personally would rather not have it inverted because of the loss of approach angle (even if its not much). But I want to see how this turns out, so no flaming here (not much for talking ish anyway). BTW, I think it would also be interesting to see that Rancho shod JK launch a sand dune to see what the rear suspension does. Might work great...but I'd still like to see it!

Here's my concerns with this design:

In order for the axle to go up and down it requires the links to compress or pull away from each other, which results in what I would consider magnified pinion twist. Versus what you typically see with a well designed 3 or 4 link setup. In which you can control your range of motion more consistantly. The only way you keep this from hurting anything with this particular inverted design setup is by limiting your vertical travel.

There is no doubt that this type of suspension will twist up to a certain degree. But again not anymore IMO than a 3 or 4 link will.

The only way that I can see this mechanism working as efficiently as a 3 or 4 link is if you made the forward link mount be horizontal if not parallel to the rear. This would cause it to draw forward during compression, basically it would look like a Z with the ends parallel from the side, angled downward. Whereas now both rear and forward links slope in from top down to the axle connections.

If you want to try it go ahead, and maybe you'll be fine without alot of travel. But IMO that defeats the purpose of doing a link suspension.

I wish the rear swaybar was unhooked in the above pic. I believe the pinion angle would be causing the d shaft to kink upward.

ugh... this thread is so disappointing... on so many levels.

I once had a quote in my sig that stated: "It's official, Pirate4x4 has officially become the ButtPirate4x4 bulletin board."

It's threads like this that makes this such a true statement.

Wow I hadn't seen that rancho JK yet, but that was exactly what i was talking about earlier, It had to have been at least 3-5 years ago when I had seen it on a Jeep, on the front axle... and I thought it was interesting but I wasn't gona put that kinda time into a design I wasn't sure would work the way I was hoping for, I distinctively remember the pics I prolly even still have the mag somewhere, as I have a 4x4 mag library containing every 4x4 mag i could find up until about 2 years ago spanning back 10-12 years, with that said, I bet that that would be a pretty effective design if properly setup, rancho has been in the game a long time and normally put out decent products, i would hope they wouldn't put out a junk ass setup now

I like this thread just because it's the most redneck, hillbilly, backwoods build yet! :D the tractor links won't outright break, they will wear out though. A buddy of mine used to use 'em on Rockwell rigs and Michelin XMLs. Not the greatest parts, but they'll last a little while, and replacements are cheap and easy. Spend some time and grab some scrap metal to brace up the mounts a little better, make sure you don't have more than an inch of threads showing on your links, and beat the tar out of it 'til something breaks.

Get er done cowchip.

I want to see pics when its done.
Obviously you like working on your rig as much as you like to wheel it.

Hats off to ya.

Can we please get back to the $70 link set up? I wants to see it...my welding sucks, my rig looks like ass, and my wallet is empty. Hell, I don't even have a tractor. Cowchip's build appeals to me.

Since you guys are busy debating the merits of a super-inverted multi-link thingamabob, I'm going to go drink warm beer and finish welding in my fenderwells.

You guys would just shit if you saw my welding...looks like the work of a blind epelleptic on meth (that's why I'm saving my cage for last; hopefully I will improve by then).

:flipoff2:

I'm a certified welder with 20 years of experience. I started welding on the farm and proceeded through a college course to welding full time. I've welded on all sorts of junk and have seen quite a few abominations. Some welding that looks inadequate to seal a coke can holds forever and the beefy beautiful stuff fails at the drop of a hat. It's all about how the weld takes the stress's of the suspension travel. Will this project live? I don't know. I do know when I started to read it and do some research for my own custom suspension I got more BS from people who just seem to think they know better. I want to know what works FROM EXPERIENCE and not guessing. I WILL street drive my rig. Safety is THE MOST important aspect of any rig. Shit failing puts everyone at risk. I've seen a mig welded suspension tab tear out of a cast centre section spraying diff oil everywhere, drying out the bearings and causing the axle to catch on fire. I happened across the poor kid with the flaming ride with no extinguisher. I put out the fire, seen the cause and gave the kid shit for putting a hack job on the road. I'm a prick thats well known but I'm no idiot.

I want to know where I can find the valuable info to build my own suspension. I'm not being cheap I'm swapping in a 5.0/aod/205 and so far no long arm kit for tj's works with my plan of 38" tsl's. I'm narrowing a hp 60 to 63.5" wms-wms to match the 14 bolt rear. I want to stretch the wheelbase a bit so I don't end up with a 3" rear driveshaft.

As far as this flaming thread is going I got a headache after 4 pages and gave up reading anymore. This guy seems like he has some knowledge in what he's doing and feels comfortable in riding his rig this way, good for him. I'll never see it completed and thats fine by me. I'm well known in my club as a nutjob who wheels with no regard for damage. I know my limits and bouncing off stuff is safe as long as I'm not getting air. I'm not building my Jeep 17 times due to being cheap or impatient. Build it once, build it right. Flame me all you want, it won't be the first or last time. I just want to know the safe way to build a custom suspension, what to use and what I can expect.

Can we please get back to the $70 link set up? I wants to see it...my welding sucks, my rig looks like ass, and my wallet is empty. Hell, I don't even have a tractor. Cowchip's build appeals to me.

Since you guys are busy debating the merits of a super-inverted multi-link thingamabob, I'm going to go drink warm beer and finish welding in my fenderwells.

You guys would just shit if you saw my welding...looks like the work of a blind epelleptic on meth (that's why I'm saving my cage for last; hopefully I will improve by then).

:flipoff2:

Sorry, I like to exchange ideas and push the envelope of ideas. I've seen some bad stuff on the trail that lives trip after trip. Guys like us use our stuff to have fun, not fight in Iraq. It's not that big a deal.
I'm afraid I won't get to even look at the JP till tomorrow. I just got back from Vegas and I'm wasted (and broke). I did win enough for the Bilstins I want but I blew it today (I gamble like I wheel; winning isn't enough, I have to ruin it to be done).
I'm afraid of what I'll find tomorrow. My neighbor radiused my rear wheel wells and I guess it doesn't "look very good". Lucky for me, my camera broke in Vegas and you guys won't get to see it before I get it fixed (if I can). Also, we got killed with rain while I was gone and the garage is flooded.
Maybe next weekend we'll be able to fire it up. My son found the leaks in the gas tank. I'm not sure if I want to fix this one or just soap it. I may go with a fuel cell when I switch to TBI.

Bump & Grind,
You know exactly what I'm talking about. The worst thing about a MIG is that any fool can pull a trigger and move they're hand in circles. With some practice, it usually looks good. But often, there's not enough penetration or (more often) they go over the weld 3 or 4 times trying to cover up their mistakes. I hope you hang in there to see how this turns out. Can you even wheel up there now? I have family up there and they're can't find their ass in all the snow.

Actually we got a 4 wheeling camping trip lined up in 2 weeks. My fairly stock TJ on LTB's actually does quite well in the snow.

Well, I still haven't had a chance to get over to the shop but my kid snapped a pic with his phone. I'm afraid to see it in person. I guess if it's too bad, I could stick something over the cut to hide it.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/wheelwell1.jpg

He took a pic of the bog too. I can dam up the ditch and fill this thing to the windows. It still needs some work. I wanted to put another run right next to it and have mud-drags or race down and back (there's a slight hill) but my wife won't let me:mad3: (yet)
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/mudbog.jpg

I should be able to get more done this week.

just by looking at the rancho design the pinion is going to move but to what degree.As long as the uppers are as flat as possible I dont see shit blowing up until the tractor joints start to fail and get some limilt straps(seatbelts on the cheap:))run that shit and tell us how it all works

You have an awesome attitude Cowboy. How you keep your cool when some 25 yr old punk who had someone build his Jeep (or his Daddy fund it) is beyond me.
20 yrs ago, AG equipment was all we had and it worked and we are still here to talk about it.
I've been dragged frame deep in gumbo, in a 40,000 lbs electric company rig with two 8-wheeled tractors pulling me on a huge draw bar and never saw an AG joint break. But what do I know up against all this experience.

The link set-up you are talking about is called a Z-bar set-up. We use it on IMCA car and only on one side. It helps keep the axle located vertically and then we run a traditional set-up on the other side to cause rear steer.
There is a trig function that will tell you how long the links need to be for the axle yoke to follow the driveshaft radius. If you want it or want me to figure it for you, PM me.

Keep the great attitude dude!!

what do ag joints and electric company trucks have to do with each other?

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Lineman. Untill I got the crap kicked out of me on here, I never considered ag joints to be weak. This is my 1st jeep (not 1st 4x) so I'm open to ideas. The wheels are already in motion on this build so I'm not going to scrap the whole plan just because a few say it won't work. That makes me want to build it even more.
I am considering an axle swap before I finish it. I think my weak link will be the D30 in front and I'm not in love with the FJ40 rear. I found a wrecked waggy w/ 44s. Even if I buy them. I'll try to break what I have 1st.

I figured someone had tried something like that z-bar before. I can see how that would work better on something that doesn't need a lot of travel.

I hope to post pix next Sunday of the progress. I feel like I have to drive hard on this thing, now that so many guys want to see it done. Thanx again.

Okay, everyone can get in on this one; I've found a couple guys selling axles on craigslist. One has a set of 44s and the other has a 44/14-bolt. They're both full width but they're $200 per SET.
The 44s are 6-lug, so I could use my wheels. Otherwise, I'm leaning towards the 44/14.

What say you?

Okay, everyone can get in on this one; I've found a couple guys selling axles on craigslist. One has a set of 44s and the other has a 44/14-bolt. They're both full width but they're $200 per SET.
The 44s are 6-lug, so I could use my wheels. Otherwise, I'm leaning towards the 44/14.

What say you?

I like the lighter D44 frt/rr. Better ground clearance. No buying new wheels either. Would be more consistent with the budget build theme of your rig. After 8 pages of reading ... what size tires are you running again?

although if you plan to go to bigger tires or adding a heavy right foot to some hp maybe you should consider the 44/14 maybe.

If your like most of us this project will be never ending ... but for sure both options are an improvement on your current stuff.

CowChip, i say you should pick up a pair of those axles. I would Prob go for the 14b setup if it were me. I say blow your current shit up before you worry about a swap. Plus, in the mean time you can be working on a design for that Z system you want to do to work in conjuntion with these axles. Thats what I would do. my 2cents.

At first I was getting blown up for the set-up I'm building. Now, you guys are assuming I'm going to Z-link it. I gotta beat the crap out of this for a while.

I sent an email to the guy with the 44/14. In his pix there's wheels on the axles. If I can get them with the axles, I think I'll go that route (assuming they're 15"). I might want to go hydro-assist (yep, it may be a tractor ram:flipoff2:) and upsize to 36 or 38" tires. I have 33s now.
If I leave them full width, I can leave the JP where it is or even lower it an inch or 2.

just a thought.... but if you dont blow the current axles up before you yank them, you can sell them to recoup some cash.

That would be the sensible thing to do but not as much fun. I found another set of 44s for $200 and they come w/ the whole Waggy (engine blown).

well hell buy the waggy for 200 pull the axles throw whatever scrap your not going to need and take that bad boy to the scrap.... I bet you get close to 200 or so out of it :smokin:.... I took a couple to the scrap nearing the end of last year and they were in the $175ish area

[QUOTE=hivolt lineman;7873318]You have an awesome attitude Cowboy. How you keep your cool when some 25 yr old punk who had someone build his Jeep (or his Daddy fund it) is beyond me.
20 yrs ago, AG equipment was all we had and it worked and we are still here to talk about it.
I've been dragged frame deep in gumbo, in a 40,000 lbs electric company rig with two 8-wheeled tractors pulling me on a huge draw bar and never saw an AG joint break. But what do I know up against all this experience.
[QUOTE]

Man im glad someone finally brought up that point. I was wandering how many people that have flamed on this thread have actually ever operated a tractor. If they had they would know how much stress is put on that toplink that houses the "AG joint". Just think of a 4840 John Deere dual rear wheel tractor pulling a "bat wing" plow through the field and hitting a rock under ground thats big enough to bring the 220 pto horsepower tractor to a dead stop. Thats a lot of force on the toplinks and i have never broken one, and had this situation happen many times.

There is a guy here in NC that runs the same tractor joints as his 4 link (front and rear) on a toyota w/ rockwells and 52's and hasnt had a problem that i know of and says they work great.

Im sorry to rant but it just pisses me off when people start talking shit and dont even know anything about the subject. Anyways Cowchip500 cool build and way to keep it cheap. Look forward to seeing it done.

That would be the sensible thing to do but not as much fun. I found another set of 44s for $200 and they come w/ the whole Waggy (engine blown).

Heck ya I'ld buy the Waggy! Like Tjeepfreak said, you'ld probably be money ahead after you strip it of what you want and take it to the scrap yard !

I might just buy the 44/14 anyway. I have to buy the waggy now that the guy gave me a guilt trip (which worked on my wife). I'm not even going to take it off the trailer. I'll strip it where she sits and take it to scrap.

Thanx guys for the support. My kids are really into this after all the feedback (good and bad). Last night I got the seats and gas tank in before consumption got the best of us (the neighbor, not the kids). Tomorrow, I'll cut/bend the new diamond plate for the sides (since the tub is longer). Also, I'll cut/bend new floorboards.
This Saturday, after I get the waggy, I need to replace the yoke flange on the rear (swapping for a newer, larger one). I'll lengthen the front shaft, wire and hook up the misc lines. Find a trans shifter and make one for the 205. I have to change trans fluid, hook up the new cooler (I got a frame-rail cooler) and she's about ready to fire. Oh, I gotta make new tub mounts for the rear, make a new drag-link and install the new rear brakes, too. She's close! One solid day w/o any snags & she's running. I listed all this so I can look back on Sat.
The weather is supposed to be sunny all weekend. I'll have to take a little time to ride the bike but I should have some pix to post Sat night/ Sunday.

There was a day in time that upgrading to an Amc 20 was the ''in'' thing to do..Like said above,ag links have been used and abused since the hay days of using a rod end..Kudus to Cowchip for bucking the system...You'll be wheeling yours and the the rest of the nay sayers will still be looking at there rigs on the jackstands..

Well, I am really digging this build. It is displaying a level of ingenuity that used to be the norm...back when it was far from uncommon to see rigs built from affordable materials that were readily available. Yea, there was a time before specialty heims, coil-overs, and store bought, bolt-on bullshit.

In my opinion, this is real tech...it is one hell of a lot more difficult to do what this builder is undertaking than it is to order all your shit and just bolt it up. Oh fawk, it's not a 1 ton YJ
Oh fawk, he isn't using DOM
Tractor Heims? Quick, call Poison Fawkin Spyder so he can be like the rest of you tribal tattooed candy asses.

This is a great thread for us who own a HF bender, use pipe, and aren't afraid to wander around TSC looking for shit we can "make work". Yea, that's me, and I drink Keystone...it's the bottled beer in a can.

PS. The man has a nice tractor. How many of YOU little pissants have a tractor?


TO THE COMMON MAN!!! HOORAH!

Ray

Hey! I got it back together enough for a test drive & ya know what? I didn't die and nobody else did either!
It's not together enough to beat on it but I did a lawn job in my neighbors yard. Here's a couple pix. There's still a lot to do. I need to make a back bumper, replace the rear u-joints (I recycled the old ones), replace rear brakes, build new floor-board, make x-fer shifter, get a trans shifter (I'm using a grab-handle I found in the shop, just bolted to the trans. Super cheesy). Oh, ya; I gotta put the lug-nuts back on (Yep, I did the lawn job on 2 lugs per, on the rear:homer: Good thing it's slick out there)
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1248.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1249.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1253.jpg
I had to piece together the drive shaft, but it's beefy. After I buy new brake shoes, I should still be under $100, not counting the non-3-link stuff. Not too shabby, eh?
Don't worry, flamers, I'll beat her good for you.
I'm flying to Austin tomorrow. No jeep for a week:(
To be continued..........

Ummmm...that tranny mount hanging lower than the bottom of your diff is probably going to be a "big plus" off-road as well...:shaking:

SWEET that thing is top notch awesome project!!! lovin it! keep up the good work man dont let the naysayers discourage you.. they can sit one their hands while you build.

Ray

i guess if i drove my rig around in my back yard i wouldn't break it either.

Yah, I'm not happy with the new crossmember. I didn't have any 1x2 1/4". It's easy to remove and when I build a new one, it will have skid plate that will go from the front springs past the rear lower arms. That way, it can "slide over" rather than hang-up. I might raise the x-fer 2" to get the case up. I didn't think I'd be able to work it with the driveshaft angle I have but I think it will be ok. I'll be sure to give it a good "small-block" test first.
I don't have a drag-link built yet. So, I had to cheese-ball a rod with hitch pins to make both wheels work. It's slightly stronger than duct-tape. I wasn't going to push it. I mainly wanted to test the rear. Even with only 2 lugs/per wheel (that was an accident) it seemed to do well. Not much body roll and she launched straight. I'll know more when I can really test it. Just baby steps 1st. Be patient, it will get worse.

I can’t wait until this is finished. I want to see you flog on this thing. It’s given me the idea of making my own mini backyard buggy for cheap and used parts.

I’m still waiting on updates

WoooHoooo!!! I took her out today and kicked the crap out of it. I found everything that I forgot to re-torque. The longer wheelbase feels funny & the loss of turning is noticable. I still have to make a front driveshaft so I couldn't crawl on anything. But I bounced it hard down the pasture lane and it did fine. I didn't quite get it off the ground but it wants to lift the front end when I gas it out of a hole. It was totally BITCH'N!
My son was running the video and didn't get any still shots. I haven't figured out how to download from a mini-DVD yet, otherwise I'd post the vid. I'll have the office-geek download it next week. The only pix I got were after the wash (my wife was none-too-happy when I drove up behind the horses w/ open headers). I did pick up a wheel with the tractor to see how she looks. I need to remount the shocks.
Here's some pix. I gotta go play a little more before the sun sets. More later...
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1263.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1264.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1267.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1269.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1268.jpg

I know what you're saying; "he's wheelin in a pasture". I'm just shaking it down. It sure is fun though.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1272.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1273.jpg

I don't know if this will work. This vid was shot w/ a digital still cam, so no sound.
http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/?action=view&current=DSCF1270.flv

Maybe this...
http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/?action=view&current=DSCF1270.flv

and I told you guys I'd admit and take pix of anything that breaks. Well, I tossed the caps off of the u-joint. This one's my bad, though. I didn't have the right size caps and couldn't wait, so I admit it. Here's your pic :flipoff2:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1274-1.jpg
Yes, those are aluminum bolts in the yoke (again, couldn't wait). They will be replaced w/ the new u-joint.

I'm pretty amazed... at how fucking stupid this whole project is. :rolleyes:

wtf..... so cool.....

Screw all the haters. Redneck engineering is cool. Have fun driving while all the pirate flamers web-wheel

I'd rather web wheel while i work on my shit than have shit flying apart the first time I drive it cause I half assed the whole fucking "build"

Man that is bad ass. I am all about building shit with what i got. My buddy buys every thing and i bulid all my shit. He makes fun of me but my shit last just as long as his and is WAY CHEAPER.

You can teach these so called experts a thing or 2 with the quality of buid going on in this thread! A++++ farmyard engineer! they are the ones that make it happen..

Ray

Hey greythorn his IS an A+ compaired to your shit

Cowchip, us Arkies are all for you.

July 9th, 1981. What a day for brilliance. Maybe you'll get a better personality for your 27th.

Flamers...back off. You boys have got a serious issue with folks making do with what they have. I couldn't help but notice that some of you are running coil springs!! WTF!!!! ARE YOU STOOPID!!! Coil-overs are the ONLY way to go. Coils and leaf springs are for igmo's!! Only the GREATS, like ME, run 1.25 hiems and coil-overs and 42" IROKs and full hydro and etc etc etc......damn, you boys need counseling or a big group hug or something.....
Hell, maybe we'll all meet in Disney and sing a few camp fire songs and talk about how stoopid each one of us is.
Let's all meet for a fun-filled, country-ass, Hot Springs Arkansas weekend. We'll chew 'bacca and drink Keystone and us country folk will show you how #5 engineering works.

Cowchip, WTF, white shocks????? You're stoopid....:)

Will your sister/wife/mom be there?

Well, it looks like I'm going to break the $70 mark. After last weekend's test drive, I busted up the yoke beond repair. So, I ordered one that will convert the FJ40 rear to standard 1310 u-joints. This should put me around $100. On the up-side, I won't need to use a Tom Woods on the rear (or grind) 'cause the new yoke is nearly an inch longer than stock.
Lineman, the white shocks are temporary only. I'll be replacing them with Bilstein 5150s (before you flame me; I work in the industry & I think I've done my homework on this. For the $, you can't buy a better shock).
I'll still be 2wd this weekend unless I can find a yoke for the front of the 205. We're going to BBQ & bog (not sure how far I'll get w/ 2wd) but maybe I can find something to launch off of. I need to stress test this set up. You guys didn't believe me, but I have a half-gal of Crown Royal that says she'll fly. If she lives, maybe we'll run in the drags in McKenna next month (can't do much more till we're injected).

Ive got a 14b you can have, it has no gears or pinion support though, but you can find those on ebay cheap. It also has these crazy link brackets and coil buckets for a serious redneck mudbogger and mounts for 4 shocks per side :D

PM me if you want it, at the least its good for spare shafts and a housing to practice shaving on. Oh and i have like 8 ag links that came with it you can have for spares with these huge grade 8 bolts.

pic of 14b (http://www.mystomper.com/bbs_images/14b.JPG)

I could try to dig my Momma up and bring her. Didn't realize you were a necrophiliac.

Speaking of Mommy's, you need to have your Mommy check your diaper...you're starting to stink.:flipoff2:

Hey greythorn his IS an A+ compaired to your shit

U got that right!

Ray

...I got my hater blockerz on....

I could try to dig my Momma up and bring her. Didn't realize you were a necrophiliac.




Hows it feel to be a widower?:flipoff2:

I could try to dig my Momma up and bring her. Didn't realize you were a necrophiliac.

Speaking of Mommy's, you need to have your Mommy check your diaper...you're starting to stink.:flipoff2:

I was wondering what the hell that smell was........:grinpimp:

Any news Cowchip?

Jacksonville.
Are you a seaman or do you just like the taste?
Wipe your chin before you reply.

Who's going to Disney? I'm going again and would LOVE to meet some of you boys.
Now now, be adults and try not to throw up any little kiddy remarks about queers.

Well, I played in the pasture all weekend. I'm still waiting on a front yoke so I'm 2wd. It gave me a good chance to beat on the rear end some. The mud was perfect. Tons of rain Friday night and sun the rest of the weekend. The only thing that broke was the fuel pump. I took it down the road at about 40mph and it rode like a caddy (only colder). It travels straight, no vibrations (which surprised me w/ the FJ40 rear) and handles better than the leaf-springs ever did. In the mud and on the street it feels 100&#37; more stable. The long links perform differently than I expected. I thought it would feel like 4-linked race cars I've driven. It's not. Under hard acceleration the front end rises (which I expected) but the rear doesn't. On video, you can see the weight transfer because of the front lift. Once the nose is up and I cross ruts and dips, it more on the rear axle appearing to actually be squatting. It doesn't feel mushy. It feels very confident. You can see what I mean in the 2nd pic. There's very little body roll too. I won't say "this myth is busted" just yet. We'll have to take it over some rocks, jumps and through the deep bog.
In 2-3 weeks, the NW Bombers may host a BBQ/mud-bog here. I don't want to have to get an event permit & crap, so we'll have to limit the # of vehicles. If anyone is interested, PM me. 1st RSVPs, 1st served. The bog is over 3' in some spots and swallows 33s. We'll have mud-drags too. Should be a blast.
Not many pix this time but here's what we got. I still can't get the new vid cam to download.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1280.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1279.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/Torkliftrob/DSCF1276.jpg

How many people, to date, are dead from using those Ag joints?

man, none of you fawkers read your shit before you post it do you?

Wow this has to be the worst build that i have ever read/seen im sorry if u dont have a lot of money! but that means save up! im a 18 year old college student and i been saving my money for the right parts. Im not going to 1/2 ass anything to make it "look cool" and fall apart all the time i would rather spend my time and money on better parts. I guess this is what happends to people when there wife is there cuzin!

Wow this has to be the worst build that i have ever read/seen im sorry if u dont have a lot of money!

I second this motion...for Christ's sake, if you're going to build a complete clapped out POS with zero tech, why post it? Enjoy your "hillbilly wheeling" in the pasture, I could care less, but why post it on this board? I mean you could blast your lawn tractor through that yard/pasture/whatever, but I'm not sure what anyone else is going to learn from it?

Wow this has to be the worst build that i have ever read/seen im sorry if u dont have a lot of money! but that means save up! im a 18 year old collage student and i been saving my money for the right parts. Im not going to 1/2 ass anything to make it "look cool" and fall apart all the time i would rather spend my time and money on better parts. I guess this is what happends to people when there wife is there cuzin!

When you get out of "Collage" (it's college) and you bolt all your store-bought parts together, I'm sure nothing will break. Right?
The point of posting this in "hard-core" is to show that some people still build rigs using what they have available. How do you define 1/2 ass? Using ag joints? How many have you seen break? I've put incredible stress on them for years and I've never even heard of one breaking. Maybe they wear faster. So what, they were $13.
Sorry it's not "cool" enough for you. We'll see what you have to say when I really get to take it out and flog it. I already promised to post exactly what happens. So far, it's exceeded my expectations for performance. It's straight, solid and strong. AND it's only been me, my welder & some web research Vs. the world. What a noble cause.
BTW- I hope you're not an English major:flipoff2:

[QUOTE=Cowchip500;7963058] When you get out of "Collage" (it's college)
QUOTE]


now that's funny......

cowchip this build came up in conversation yesterday about how all of pirate is getting too fancy and only wants bling. I for one am glad to see you havin fun with what you built and doin it on a budget.

[QUOTE=Cowchip500;7963058] When you get out of "Collage" (it's college)
QUOTE]


now that's funny......

(x2):D

Wow, You're fucking kidding right.

We all work for a living but if you can't afford the right way to build something then don't do it. There are ways to build on a budget that doesn't mean to skimp on the important things like your links, material or the suspension design. :shaking: I bet you defend the scaringsteering.com website too.




Just put the leaves back under it and save yourself the time now.

Cut me some slack guys Ive been using these parts for years and been building mud trucks and crawlers for 12 years.The shear strength is un godly on these parts and if you really want the inside on it there is two USHRA inspected Monster truck teams that I know of personally that use these Tractor supply parts themselves thank you.You guys will never launch your rigs 20 feet in the air at a weight of 10,000 lbs with 1200 plus horsepower so I dont see any thing breaking.Also for those of you who dont get the jist of impliment parts when you drag a plow or disc down the field with a tractor that puts out more torque than any 2 of these rigs and the implements you are dragging are cutting the earth and putting way more force and stress on these joints than any thing Ive done in my trucks. You wont break them.I can go on for ever with fact after fact but ive seen lots of parts break and broke lots of parts myself but have not broke one of these joints.Give a guy a break and dont knock him till you try what he has tried.With that said hopefully no one is mad at me but I had to put in my .02 cents from experience.P.S.If you are ever at a monster truck race and CYBORG is there take a gander under his truck its all tractor supply for the fact that he can at any given time or place buy the replacement parts.

As I stated before...I think the ag joints are the BEST part of this "build"!:shaking:

crono. You do not put "do you" at the end of a sentence. This changes the phrasing to a question. You need to better engineer your Jeeps and your grammar.:D

I'm on my third set of XM 3/4's and 1 1/4's. That's in an 8 year span. All of them starting banging within 3 months of installing them. Design of suspension was not a factor. 100% AS at 10 degree rise with 42"CG. Triangulation was 45 degrees + to the lower arms.
24 joints X $21 each comes out to $504 for the 3/4x3/4 joints. 24 X $60 = $1440 for 1 1/4" joints. Grand total of $1944.
That's a lot of AG joints THAT WILL NOT BREAK!

cowchip this build came up in conversation yesterday about how all of pirate is getting too fancy and only wants bling. I for one am glad to see you havin fun with what you built and doin it on a budget.

Thanx, I appreciate the support. It's not that I can't afford to bolt someone else's parts together. I have a Harley, 2 sport bikes, 2 jet skis, 2 tractors, 1 Malibu ski boat, a '71 Chevelle, a pumped-up 12v in a Dodge and a "blingy" Denalli. All of which is, at least, 75% "bolt-together". I wanted to see if I could build something that works, better than stock, from crap laying around the barn. I don't care how it looks, only that it works & I have virtually NOTHING invested. As I said before, worst case; I torch it all off and buy store-bought crap. BFD.
What's the point of this thread? Build it, beat it, enjoy it. How many flamers were out this weekend red-lining their rigs (and didn't break)? I know a pasture isn't Moab but this is the exact same place that snapped a leaf. I've also pulled a few rigs out w/ the tractor. For a 2wd that doesn't even have a floor yet, I'm more than happy with how it's coming along.
I'm sure, even after we tackle rocks and maybe get this thing airborne, there will still be some guys that think it's total junk. It doesn't bother me, I'll be out having fun while they're home flaming me.

i'm with you....


i keep checking into this thread daily just to see what's happening ......

Let me go ahead and say to I dont agree totaly with it all some of the fab work is kinda suggesting it will come apart but I really have seen these parts go aalong way and then go some more and used them myself.As far as the hardness of things sometimes the hardest thing isnt the best you need some deflection to keep things from shattering.Also I will have to argue and being from Kansas that comes naturally but coming from a Rural area ive seen alot of these joints and never saw one pull the ball out the side.I will also say that I change mine every year still cheaper than JJ's.I also run none of this on the street.

As Ive said before (just not here)pride in your ride its his if it falls apart its still his this is not pinks were you will win his ride then have to rebuild it so cowboy up and quit cryin.Take that 50,000 or 100,000 dollar rig out there and beat it like you own it.P.S.if my spelling sucks just remeber I'm not in College so I can be illiterate but come on in college and cant spell it.Sounds like a future Politician atleast I think thats how you spell it..

Thanx, I appreciate the support. It's not that I can't afford to bolt someone else's parts together. I have a Harley, 2 sport bikes, 2 jet skis, 2 tractors, 1 Malibu ski boat, a '71 Chevelle, a pumped-up 12v in a Dodge and a "blingy" Denalli. All of which is, at least, 75% "bolt-together". I wanted to see if I could build something that works, better than stock, from crap laying around the barn. I don't care how it looks, only that it works & I have virtually NOTHING invested. As I said before, worst case; I torch it all off and buy store-bought crap. BFD.
What's the point of this thread? Build it, beat it, enjoy it. How many flamers were out this weekend red-lining their rigs (and didn't break)? I know a pasture isn't Moab but this is the exact same place that snapped a leaf. I've also pulled a few rigs out w/ the tractor. For a 2wd that doesn't even have a floor yet, I'm more than happy with how it's coming along.
I'm sure, even after we tackle rocks and maybe get this thing airborne, there will still be some guys that think it's total junk. It doesn't bother me, I'll be out having fun while they're home flaming me.

Yah, I'm not happy with the new crossmember. I didn't have any 1x2 1/4". It's easy to remove and when I build a new one, it will have skid plate that will go from the front springs past the rear lower arms. That way, it can "slide over" rather than hang-up. I might raise the x-fer 2" to get the case up. I didn't think I'd be able to work it with the driveshaft angle I have but I think it will be ok. I'll be sure to give it a good "small-block" test first.
I don't have a drag-link built yet. So, I had to cheese-ball a rod with hitch pins to make both wheels work. It's slightly stronger than duct-tape. I wasn't going to push it. I mainly wanted to test the rear. Even with only 2 lugs/per wheel (that was an accident) it seemed to do well. Not much body roll and she launched straight. I'll know more when I can really test it. Just baby steps 1st. Be patient, it will get worse.ROFLMAO This is great stuff hitch pins in the steering man I gotta member that dude this is great.I like this thing can you say SWEET.

And theres the be-uty of mud boggin..... Not hatin but..... esplainin :D

Wrap a chain around yor bumper and try to pull down a telphone poll with your tires on dry cement ...... then lets see how long they last
I wanna see the rig that pulls down a phone poll . that's awesome.

At least you stopped yelling...:smokin:

When you get out of "Collage" (it's college) and you bolt all your store-bought parts together, I'm sure nothing will break. Right?
The point of posting this in "hard-core" is to show that some people still build rigs using what they have available. How do you define 1/2 ass? Using ag joints? How many have you seen break? I've put incredible stress on them for years and I've never even heard of one breaking. Maybe they wear faster. So what, they were $13.
Sorry it's not "cool" enough for you. We'll see what you have to say when I really get to take it out and flog it. I already promised to post exactly what happens. So far, it's exceeded my expectations for performance. It's straight, solid and strong. AND it's only been me, my welder & some web research Vs. the world. What a noble cause.
BTW- I hope you're not an English major:flipoff2:


No i'm going to " college " for fire science. I'm not saying that i'm going to go out their and buy all bolt on parts. I'm saying it's stupid that you use hockey pucks on your fucking jeep.:shaking:.Dont be a fucking cheap ass! If you really want your so called "rig" to look and perform good then dont put stupid shit on it and post it on pirate and dont expect to get flamed.:flipoff2:

No i'm going to " college " for fire science. I'm not saying that i'm going to go out their and buy all bolt on parts. I'm saying it's stupid that you use hockey pucks on your fucking jeep.:shaking:.Dont be a fucking cheap ass! If you really want your so called "rig" to look and perform good then dont put stupid shit on it and post it on pirate and dont expect to get flamed.:flipoff2:

I like how you corrected your spelling areas but messed up on other grammar you f**kstain:shaking:. Maybe you should stop being a cheap ass and spend your money on a better college.:flipoff2:

As for the build, I think its badass and I check often to see your updates.