i did a search and am looking for more answers please.
87 YJ vacuum disconnect D30 w/260 ujoints

i am doing an 8.8/detroit/4.56's in rear
installing axles/297's from a 94-95 YJ/4.56's/detroit in the front

running 35" mtr's

questions for the front D30:
how will the front react on pvmt?
will it turn good enough in 2WD?
will it be driveable?
will it be towable?

will it turn in 4wd?


will the 30 hold up with the 297 up-grade?


thanks for any help

Originally posted by sas87yj
i did a search and am looking for more answers please.
87 YJ vacuum disconnect D30 w/260 ujoints

i am doing an 8.8/detroit/4.56's in rear
installing axles/297's from a 94-95 YJ/4.56's/detroit in the front

running 35" mtr's

questions for the front D30:
how will the front react on pvmt?

will it turn good enough in 2WD?

will it be driveable?

will it be towable?

will it turn in 4wd?

will the 30 hold up with the 297 up-grade?


thanks for any help

1.Fine, cause you should be in 2wd

2.Without power going to the front axle, everything will be fine

3.Definitely

4.Don't see why not

5.Yes, it'll be a little tougher tho

6.All depends on your driving. You might want to upgrade the axleshafts to Superior or Warn's.


FWIW: I've run 33x14.5 SSR's and am now running 37x12.5 SSR's on a TJ D30 with a Detroit locker, 4.56's, Warn axleshafts and the Warn 5 on 4.5 hub conversion for a couple years now - no problems with anything on the front axle.

thanks buddy
i have heard bad things from some about the detroit in the front w/o locking hubs. then others say the same as you. i tried getting moser to build some axles but they are disagreeing with themselves on this and wanted me to send them an outer axle so they can look at it or send them a pic with dims. i thought this all sounded pretty gay from an axle expert. they act like they never worked on D30.

i contacted DTD and they have axles/297's from 94-95 YJ's which they say will slide right in to my system. they are both vacuum disconnect. my axle mechanic has another contact that said the hubs won't fit the 94-97 YJ's. go figure. i've never seen so much IFFY $HIT as this axle crap :)

both of your front axles are always turning right? did you ever run the detroit BEFORE the hub conversion? i say this because i will NOT have locking hubs and my drivers side axle ALWAYS spins the diff. this is my main QUESTION.

thanks

The fronts will always turn without the hub conversion. It still doesn't affect the steering because the axleshafts aren't "locked-up" until you load the Detroit - ie: put it in 4WD and power on.
Personally, I haven't run the Detroit without the hub conversion, but I know others who do and they have no adverse reations while in 2WD.

It's a Dana 30, forget about it.

Originally posted by Oxblood
It's a Dana 30, forget about it.

Whatever...

A good friend of mine still has the 30. Has detroits at both ends, rear 44. (he bought the Jeep like that) also has 297X
He has no problems at all in 2WD.
Once in 4WD, he bent the tie rod, replaced it with chrome moly.
Just steers a little harder in 4WD, other than that, no real problems except he knows its weak and he'll eventually break.

Originally posted by Oxblood
It's a Dana 30, forget about it.

and i surpose your jeep was just born with a 2.5 rockwell up front, everyone starts off with something they can break:flipoff2:

That's the set up I run right now. No problems at all. :smokin: However I did pop a cap off one of my 297's two weeks ago but I think the clip was just not on right. I put another cap on it and seems all good again. I have been runing this set up for a year now and have not broken anything so far, other then loosing that cap.

Originally posted by sfraser
That's the set up I run right now. No problems at all. :smokin: However I did pop a cap off one of my 297's two weeks ago but I think the clip was just not on right. I put another cap on it and seems all good again. I have been runing this set up for a year now and have not broken anything so far, other then loosing that cap.

thanks fraser
so your 89 still has the vacuum disconnect AND no locking hubs? in other words the STOCK D30 set-up except for the 297's? where did you get the axels to fit the 297's AND did those axles fit the stock hubs?

so could you tell about the front-end characteristics in 2WD and 4WD?

thanks, and i appreciate your time on this
ateve

I used brand new TJ front axle shafts. No more vacuum crap. I put a plate over it. The shafts whent right in. No other changes.

However I did take the die grinder to the inside of the pumpkin near where the carier sits. Did that to make the tube bigger so that I could put a seal there so that the oil won't go down the tubes anymore. But you don't need to do that.

When your in 2WD or 4WD you get less turning radius then before. but not much. Maybe go with an OX if your not happy with that.

Originally posted by sfraser
I used brand new TJ front axle shafts. No more vacuum crap. I put a plate over it. The shafts whent right in. No other changes.

However I did take the die grinder to the inside of the pumpkin near where the carier sits. Did that to make the tube bigger so that I could put a seal there so that the oil won't go down the tubes anymore. But you don't need to do that.

When your in 2WD or 4WD you get less turning radius then before. but not much. Maybe go with an OX if your not happy with that.

thanks fraser
i just hope the 94-95 YJ axles fit my 87 hubs. DTD says they will fit and my gear installer said his contact said they won't. as far as the turning radius goes- my 35's are hitting the leaf springs and already fu@king with it :)

Nice thread with the exception of one stupid comment. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ROKWALKER
Nice thread with the exception of one stupid comment. :rolleyes:

Yeah and that one was yours.

Here's another stupid comment..... Get a 60:flipoff2:

Originally posted by sas87yj

i just hope the 94-95 YJ axles fit my 87 hubs. DTD says they will fit and my gear installer said his contact said they won't. as far as the turning radius goes- my 35's are hitting the leaf springs and already fu@king with it :)

They will fit.

And to fix your tires from hiting your springs just back up your steering stops (on your knucles of your front axle on both sides) (it's just one bolt and a nut) so that your tires come real close to the springs. But don't let it rub.

Originally posted by sfraser


They will fit.

And to fix your tires from hiting your springs just back up your steering stops (on your knucles of your front axle on both sides) (it's just one bolt and a nut) so that your tires come real close to the springs. But don't let it rub.

thanks again fraser- i appreciate the help

hay its steve!!

sounded like your project,

I did the 297X shaft conversion on My cherokee, the shafts were off a wrangler Id have to check what year i forgot but they fit fine, the splines on each end line right up.

I added a seal at the shift motor, then also built a plate over where the shift motor was. I got the seal from drive train direct I think. I like having that extra oil capacity to keep everything cool, and was alot easier then grinding the inside of the axle it fits right in. I reccomend that.

have a good weekend steve.

I'll add my experience.

I built a Hybrid axle for my XJ - D30 inner with detroit, and D44 outers with Hy-steer.

Article:

http://www.rightcoastcrawler.com/billaVista/Hybrid_Axle/HybridAxle.htm

It worked very well, until recently.

I was fully getting it in some pretty wild rocks - and one of the shafts broke, and the sudden shock took out the d30 Detroit too.

Originally posted by bigdude


Yeah and that one was yours.

Here's another stupid comment..... Get a 60:flipoff2:

:rolleyes: :rainbow: :rolleyes:

Why are you wasteing the money on a Detroit???

If you just weld the thing up, the disco will make it act as an ARB or OX. On when you want it and off when you don't.

Just install an air solenoid inline going to the vacuum motor or pull all that crap off and run a Posi-Lock.

BTW at TJ shaft will NOT just slide in there with no other changes :rolleyes: , you will need to run a new seal on the long side and you will have to remove the old seal and bearings as well.

I bought my 297x diso passenger's side inner/outer assembly from JeepPlace.com part# 755881x for $163.00

Originally posted by JEEP_TJ_FREAK
Why are you wasteing the money on a Detroit???

If you just weld the thing up, the disco will make it act as an ARB or OX. On when you want it and off when you don't.

Just install an air solenoid inline going to the vacuum motor or pull all that crap off and run a Posi-Lock.

BTW at TJ shaft will NOT just slide in there with no other changes :rolleyes: , you will need to run a new seal on the long side and you will have to remove the old seal and bearings as well.

I bought my 297x diso passenger's side inner/outer assembly from JeepPlace.com part# 755881x for $163.00

thanks freak
i ordered axles/297's from a 94-95 YJ that also had vacuum disco and came with the 297's stock. $140 a side. i am hoping that the 30 will live up to my expectations. the gears,detroit and axles are setting me back around $1000. that ba$tard better hold up to rocks and 35's. if not, i will be just another STATISTIC :)

thanks again for your help

Originally posted by sas87yj


thanks freak
i ordered axles/297's from a 94-95 YJ that also had vacuum disco and came with the 297's stock. $140 a side. i am hoping that the 30 will live up to my expectations. the gears,detroit and axles are setting me back around $1000. that ba$tard better hold up to rocks and 35's. if not, i will be just another STATISTIC :)

thanks again for your help

Dude that is not a wise setup.

You already have the means to manually engauge/disengauge the passenger's side shaft, putting a Detroit in there is fucking dumb. Save the $500 and have a pro weld your gears up, then spend the money you saved on a Posi-Lock :beer: and chicks :D .

If you are dead set on running a Detroit up there then by all means run a TJ axle shaft, having a disconnect axle and an automatic locker just doesn't make sence to me :confused: .

Originally posted by JEEP_TJ_FREAK


Dude that is not a wise setup.

You already have the means to manually engauge/disengauge the passenger's side shaft, putting a Detroit in there is fucking dumb. Save the $500 and have a pro weld your gears up, then spend the money you saved on a Posi-Lock :beer: and chicks :D .

If you are dead set on running a Detroit up there then by all means run a TJ axle shaft, having a disconnect axle and an automatic locker just doesn't make sence to me :confused: .

ok correct me if i'm wrong but, a spool up front in 4WD will be just like an ARB or OX. i won't be able to turn and won't be able to shut it off unless i switch to 2WD right? the detroit will be more forgiving when engaged in 4WD and i will be able to turn.

the spool would probably stress out my axles and joints and i would have to start all over again. the cost of that would out-weigh the detroit, which would leave more money for CRACK WHORES and HEROIN :)

Originally posted by sas87yj


ok correct me if i'm wrong but, a spool up front in 4WD will be just like an ARB or OX. i won't be able to turn and won't be able to shut it off unless i switch to 2WD right? the detroit will be more forgiving when engaged in 4WD and i will be able to turn.

the spool would probably stress out my axles and joints and i would have to start all over again. the cost of that would out-weigh the detroit, which would leave more money for CRACK WHORES and HEROIN :)

No there guy if you follow the directions you will be able to shut it on and off whenever you want 2wd or 4wd (that would be correcting you because your wrong) . If you just open the air solenoid or the Posi-Lock, the passenger's side axle will disengauge on command and freewheel, unlike a Detroit which will make steering difficult when in 4wd and can blow U joints.

A Detroit engauged is no more forgiving then a spool/welded diff so that is really a mute point. So pretty much you still won't be able to afford your nasty habits :D .


Oh and BTW the whole point of an ARB or Ox is to be able to turn them on and off on command unlike a Detroit.

Originally posted by JEEP_TJ_FREAK


No there guy if you follow the directions you will be able to shut it on and off whenever you want 2wd or 4wd (that would be correcting you because your wrong) . If you just open the air solenoid or the Posi-Lock, the passenger's side axle will disengauge on command and freewheel, unlike a Detroit which will make steering difficult when in 4wd and can blow U joints.

A Detroit engauged is no more forgiving then a spool/welded diff so that is really a mute point. So pretty much you still won't be able to afford your nasty habits :D .


Oh and BTW the whole point of an ARB or Ox is to be able to turn them on and off on command unlike a Detroit.


detroit no more forgiving than welded? i don't think so but then again i have no experience with either. maybe someone else will chime in here. OUTLAW seems to think it will work ok. i guess i will have to find out for myself on some of these issues.

thanks again for your input on this.

Originally posted by sas87yj



detroit no more forgiving than welded? i don't think so but then again i have no experience with either. maybe someone else will chime in here. OUTLAW seems to think it will work ok. i guess i will have to find out for myself on some of these issues.

thanks again for your input on this.

Oh I am not saying it won't work cause it will, I am trying to save you money. If you want an auto locker you need to do the TJ shaft conversion, it will be cheaper then the rare YJ shaft anyway. Since you already have a disconnect axle I just don't see any need to have another disconnect in the pumkin (that is really all you are doing) .

When a Detroit is locked its fucking locked as in no forgiveness same as a spool/welded diff. If detroits allways disengauged each time you tried to turn, hydro assist steering would not be nearly as common. With a Posi-Lock you simply let the cable go and your locker is unlocked, when you need it pull the cable. With a Detroit you are at the mercy of when it desides it should lock and unlock.

Edit: Outlaw also has a TJ so he most likely does not have a disconnect axle, and that is why he cannot run a spool/welded diff and turn for shit. The whole key to this is that you already have means of unlocking the diff from in the cab you just aren't used to using it.

Freak is making a good point. Although i've never seen it done or tried it. It does seem that it will work fine. A disengaged Lincoln Locker will turn better then any locker. That's the point he's trying to make. Unless you plan on driving this jeep 40mph down a snowy road in 4wd then you'll never be burdened with the welded front.

Originally posted by ROKWALKER
Freak is making a good point. Although i've never seen it done or tried it. It does seem that it will work fine. A disengaged Lincoln Locker will turn better then any locker. That's the point he's trying to make. Unless you plan on driving this jeep 40mph down a snowy road in 4wd then you'll never be burdened with the welded front.

my biggest prob here is that i'm stepping into un-charted territory for myself and i still want fairly decent 2WD characteristics. not a daily driver but i still want to able to drive on pvmt without buying an OX or ARB. AND i want a locker up front. AND everyone has their own ideas of which will work and i respect that along with the fact that i am absorbing this info for down the road too. if it was easy, anyone could do it right? :)

Originally posted by sas87yj


my biggest prob here is that i'm stepping into un-charted territory for myself and i still want fairly decent 2WD characteristics. not a daily driver but i still want to able to drive on pvmt without buying an OX or ARB. AND i want a locker up front. AND everyone has their own ideas of which will work and i respect that along with the fact that i am absorbing this info for down the road too. if it was easy, anyone could do it right? :)

Just ask more people about what I am saying, if they know how diffs work they will tell you this will work fine.

Originally posted by ROKWALKER
Freak is making a good point. Although i've never seen it done or tried it. It does seem that it will work fine. A disengaged Lincoln Locker will turn better then any locker. That's the point he's trying to make. Unless you plan on driving this jeep 40mph down a snowy road in 4wd then you'll never be burdened with the welded front.

Even if that is the case as long as he has it in 4wd and the disco open he will have about the same 3 wheel drive he had before with his open diff.

Why start another thread exactly like this one when you could just bump this?

Originally posted by Oxblood
It's a Dana 30, forget about it.
I think I've met someone more ignorant than you, but I'm not quite sure where. Moron. :rolleyes:
Scott

I have an 87YJ with a front locker (Lockright) and a Posi-Lock. My experience is that the locker rarely if ever disengages in 4wd (might as well spool it or weld it) and that the the Posi-Lock was kind of dissapointing. It doesn't help nearly as much with steering in 4wd as I had hoped. The left wheel is always locked (rather than with spider gears that are always adjusting). It is NOT like an ARB or OX, it is like a FULL TIME LOCKER. I have a Detroit in rear that replaced a Lockright and the only difference seems that the Detroit has a firmer feel. All that said and done, when in 2wd I am not aware of the front locker AT ALL, its a non issue in 2wd. I still have mixed feelings about locking the front. It is good on the trail in low range, but 4wd high range sucks for steering and DON"T EVER DRIVE IN 4WD ON PAVEMENT with a front locker. its just scary to steer. If you can afford it, i'd suggest an OX or ARB, if not, a lockright is much cheaper than a Detroit and should work as well for the most part in front. never tried a limited slip in front but have seen them in action and am not very imprssed.
OK, thats my experience. Good luck!

I'm also thinking about what to do with my Dana 30. I currently run 33 tsl radials and 260 u-joints open diff but want to move up to 35' or 36's and a locker some day. After reading this entire thread, I still have questions. Is a solid axle shaft better than a disco shaft? Has anyone ever broken the axle disco?

So I guess the answer to the axle shaft question will help me deside on the locker to get. If a solid shaft is preferable a manual locker is the way to go. If a disconnect axle is OK then why spend the money on an expensive locker and a gear reset? Besides who realy need 4wd in the road?

One more thing, YJ's front DS's dont spin all the time on acount of the axle disco. TJ's on the other hand dont have the disco so the DS is constantly spining. Will the constant spining of the YJ shaft after adding an auto locker cause problems? The tj has a cv front ds and suposedly better bearings on the pinion output shaft. the YJ doesnt and I am wondering if DS vibrations will apear.

I got tired of my front axle disco fvcking up all the time, and the fork was so worn that it would slip over the collar, so I tack welded on the splines to keep the collar engauged to get me by until I finished bulding my Dana 44, it vibed like a SOB, but my front shaft was so whipped you could jump rope on it, not to mention it would pull out just picking it up on the hoist. The disco was the only problem I ever had with the 30, but I wanted 5.38's, so I went to a 44.

With my Dana 44 OX I have broke the ends of the caps off two or three 297's but never wiped out a shaft or broke a joint cross. I'm about to pull the Waggy 44 in favor of a cut-down Ford (need a little more width) and if I'm going to need custom shafts, I may as well go the good shafts & CTM's If I ever brake those, then I think about a 60, but with my 2.5 and 35's I don't see it happening.

I did the one pice shaft conversion, its stronger then the disconnect!


So with a welded diff, 297X joints, a posi lock shift motor on the two piece shaft with a new 297x joint, which point will break first,

1. The disconnect slidign ring
2. the posilock shift motor arms
3. The U-joint, Id say NO
4. The axle spline at the diff,
5. The axle spline at the hub.

My guess the weekest link is the posi lock, then the sliding ring, Then the inner alxe shaft, then the outer shaft then the U-joint.
The U-joitn.

do you guys agree?

I think its a strong set up, I should have done it back in the day.
But the one piece ahft conversion I did is stonger because it eliminates what I think are the two weakest links in the system, and is simpler so should be more reliable. Mine though would require an expensive OX to get the same convience and performance equal to the set up we reccomend.

Steve I have afew welders at my house We can weld the diff on Sunday if you want, FREE. I need a butane torch thought to pre heat the gears, I dont have any gass in my oxy.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66837

Check here for a few U-joint stories. They always go first. Start a post about "how many u-joints have you broke in your locked D30" and see what kind of responses you get. I think it'll be interesting and a good tool for future newbies using search :beer:

I am not buying into the disconnect being weaker. I have never seen one bust, wear out yeah, vacuum fuck up, who hasn't but :nuke: I have yet to see.

The disco section of those shafts is huge, the ring is IMO stronger then the 297x and thats all that really matters. The rest of the stuff is easy to swap on the trail.