What are the top 10 myths....the one's that sucked us all in at one time or another..

4 of the top of my head are:

1) Grade 5 are a better choice than grade 8 as they will bend where an 8 will break

2) DOM is seamless

3) hollow is stronger than solid, size for size

4) removing a thermostat can cause overheating because the coolant mooves too fast to absorb enough heat.

What are your (least) favourites?

Axle shafts with a "neck down" after the splines are weaker than those without...oh sh!t I didn't mean that..I take it back.

Andy

# 4 ISNT A MYTH.....IT HAPPENED TO MY CAMARO ...HAS A GRIFFEN RADIATOR AND A HIGH FLOW PUMP...

ALSO SOLID IS NOT STRONGER THAN HOLLOW DEPENDING ON THE APPLICATION.......

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: 71RCKCRZR RYAN COELHO ]

5) You will learn something reading this thread <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

I thought we all vowed to keep the solid vs. hollow debate burried deep in the past <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> another myth: A shackle reversal helps your jeep climb up objects <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by 71RCKCRZR RYAN COELHO:
<STRONG># 4 ISNT A MYTH.....IT HAPPENED TO MY CAMARO ...HAS A GRIFFEN RADIATOR AND A HIGH FLOW PUMP...

ALSO SOLID IS NOT STRONGER THAN HOLLOW DEPENDING ON THE APPLICATION.......

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: 71RCKCRZR RYAN COELHO ]</STRONG>


HAHAHa yep #4 is not a myth <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> theres a reason race cars use restrictor plates <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

Every one is correct #4 is no myth,

If a black water hose sits in the sun with the water going through it slow it will come out warm, It picked up the heat.

If that same hose has a high water flow rate the water will come out with very little temp rise, it did not pick up very much heat.

Originally posted by CJ:
<STRONG>If a black water hose sits in the sun with the water going through it slow it will come out warm, It picked up the heat.

If that same hose has a high water flow rate the water will come out with very little temp rise, it did not pick up very much heat.</STRONG>

Careful there, you need to look at more than just the temperature. It takes a LOT more energy to raise the temperature of the oceans 0.01 degree than it takes to turn a cup of ice water to steam. By increasing the velocity of the water you increase the volume of water that was in the hose for the same period of time. Thermal transfer (if I recall correctly) is not dependant on the velocity of the fluid. The heat transfer per unit area is the same no matter how fast the water is moving. The change in temperature you're referring to is a fixed amount of energy over a fixed amount of time, but with two different volumes. If you saw a decrease in efficiency by removing the thermostat then my guess is cavitation reduced your effective contact area.

Originally posted by 71RCKCRZR RYAN COELHO:
[QBALSO SOLID IS NOT STRONGER THAN HOLLOW DEPENDING ON THE APPLICATION.......[/QB]

(sigh) I give up on this topic LOL <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by XJS:
<STRONG>Axle shafts with a "neck down" after the splines are weaker than those without...oh sh!t I didn't mean that..I take it back.

Andy</STRONG>

TTF <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

#6 myth is sugar in a gas tank will carmalize and seize an engine.Sugar does not dissolve in gas.Take a sugar cube and stick it in a glass of gas then stir.Nothing will happen.The only thing it will do is plug filters but you could do that with sand just as well.

Originally posted by 71RCKCRZR RYAN COELHO:
<STRONG>
ALSO SOLID IS NOT STRONGER THAN HOLLOW DEPENDING ON THE APPLICATION.......

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: 71RCKCRZR RYAN COELHO ]</STRONG>

Who started that "hollow is stronger" one anyhow? I'm curious to hear the "logic" behind it.
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Drew Persson ]

Originally posted by Drew Persson:
<STRONG>Who started that "hollow is stronger" one anyhow?</STRONG>

Hammer started that topic a loooooong time ago, it's all his fault <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> He was snapping d-shafts at the time. Actually he just asked a question and the rest of us ran with it (mostly me I guess <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> ). You still out there Hammer? Haven't seen you on here in a while. <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Eric Ruhl ]

Originally posted by Eric Ruhl:
<STRONG>Hammer started that topic a loooooong time ago, it's all his fault <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> He was snapping d-shafts at the time. Actually he just asked a question and the rest of us ran with it (mostly me I guess <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> ). You still out there Hammer? Haven't seen you on here in a while. <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Eric Ruhl ]</STRONG>

I ain't sayin nuthin! <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0">

10) Everyone will agree that a common belief is a myth, if only you use impeccable logic in explaining the falacy.
<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Mith #666 is my FAVORITE
"If I can get my rig to ramp 2000 on a 45* ramp I will be a killer wheeler and magically know how to drive" How many here started with IFS!! I can count me and drew for sure.
letts seeeeeee ahhhhh
mith #454/30o
"The more motor I have the stronger my truck is"
Mith #18
" I have lift springs that are ten inches tall run 33's or 44's and seventeen shocks so I can outwheel you"
I better run while I still can I may piss off some rednecks here <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Eric Ruhl:
<STRONG>Careful there, you need to look at more than just the temperature. It takes a LOT more energy to raise the temperature of the oceans 0.01 degree than it takes to turn a cup of ice water to steam. By increasing the velocity of the water you increase the volume of water that was in the hose for the same period of time. Thermal transfer (if I recall correctly) is not dependant on the velocity of the fluid. The heat transfer per unit area is the same no matter how fast the water is moving. The change in temperature you're referring to is a fixed amount of energy over a fixed amount of time, but with two different volumes. If you saw a decrease in efficiency by removing the thermostat then my guess is cavitation reduced your effective contact area.</STRONG>


You are correct the formula is btu per hour= temp difference X gallons per minute/24.
But when taken to the extreme all betts are off. A true life example is, a airconditioner with too much air flow across the evap will ice the coil because the air is going too fast to transfer the heat. Slow the fan down and the coil will not ice up. If you slow the air too much the ame thing will happen not enough heat transfer and the coil will ice up.
The same goes for water chillers which is just the oppisite of a radaitor, too much flow and you trip the freeze stat or too low of water flow and it also trips.

Cavitation is actually caused by reduced suction pressure.
I pulle dout my old Start Test And Ballence book.
" Cavitation is the result of insufficient avaible net positive suction head, causing low pressures such that some of the pumped liqued flashes into vapor and form bubbles. These bubbles are carried with the liqued as it goes through the pump untill they reash a region of higher pressure within the pump. Within this region, the bubbles collapse with a severe shock on the adjacent surface. This is called cavitation and is accompanied by noises including crackeling and sharp ratteling noises"

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: CJ ]

Got to have shackle reversal in the "myth" catagory. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

As well as the Mopar MPI being a "good" conversion for the 258.

Enough said about DOM. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Bob/CA ]

if you add bigger tires and a lift you will ruin your transmission and your axels. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0">

stupid try guy, they work better now!

but the gas mileage sucks, but the tires make up for it in the fun factor! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Myth: Jeeps are the "greatest" off road vehicles ever built.

XX) Size don't matter.

11. Chrome gives you more flex
12. If you polish your tie rod it will straighten out <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Open exhaust will bend an exhaust valve. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

# 00369 A 150 to 1 toyota can crawl slower than a huge torque low rpm 65:1 rig.

# 00370 Sillyneck gettin it..

<IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Mike-

Mikey, do I see a big block in the near future foir the Sammy???? Sounds kinda tempting huh.

Dimitri

The reason that myth # 4 is a reality is not because the coolant does not pick up enough heat while going through the system, but because it is flowing too quickly throught he rasdiator to transfer the heat from the water to the radiator to the air. There is only about 10 degrees difference between the coolant going in and the coolant going out of a cooling system that is working correctly.

I have one.....

Myth: Pipe is sized by i.d.

Jay

For the radiator, it depends on the system. If the water flow is too fast, it doesn't have time to transfer the heat to the air. Heat transfer is a function of time as well as surface area and conductivity.

On the driveshaft, the theory is that if you have two surfaces that must shear rather than one, the shaft is stronger. I haven't done the research to prove/disprove that one.

However, the biggest reason for the hollow driveshaft is that for a given weight, a hollow shaft is stronger.

More STUPID pedal makes you a better wheeler! <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by CRAWLR:
<STRONG>Open exhaust will bend an exhaust valve. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

I've always been told it "burns exhaust valves"... I just keep going and say I couldnt hear them cause my exhaust is to loud. This is funny cause I was moving my freinds riding lawn mower around last night and he got pissed cause it has no muffler... and top those concerned no briggs and straton parts were harmed in that experimant

[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: NE-RokToy ]

Originally posted by Daren's YJ:
<STRONG>More STUPID pedal makes you a better wheeler! <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

I agree with this but if you dont use enogh you arent a good driver either. It takes a happy medium.

Originally posted by Daren's YJ:
<STRONG>More STUPID pedal makes you a better wheeler! <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

That may be a myth, but here is the modified one that is TRUE:

More STUPID pedal makes for better entertainment <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by ROKTOY:
<STRONG>I have one.....

Myth: Pipe is sized by i.d.

Jay</STRONG>

Umm...Go put a tape measure on the gas pipes in your house, Jay. I just did a shiteload of gas piping in my house, and know for a fact that 3/4" pipe is 1" on the O.D. Not trying to start anything, but I know what I just experienced firsthand! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by dangerber:
<STRONG>Umm...Go put a tape measure on the gas pipes in your house, Jay. I just did a shiteload of gas piping in my house, and know for a fact that 3/4" pipe is 1" on the O.D. Not trying to start anything, but I know what I just experienced firsthand! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Umm... where does the fact that 3/4 gas pipe has an O.D. of 1" have anything to do with Jay's statement?

Think about it <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>Umm... where does the fact that 3/4 gas pipe has an O.D. of 1" have anything to do with Jay's statement?

Think about it <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


I thinking he's saying that he used pipe designated as 3/4" and since the od measures 1", pipe IS measured by ID.

Pipe is sized with a nominal dia. with diferent schedule determining the actual I.D. and O.D.

Humvees can go anywhere.

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>Umm... where does the fact that 3/4 gas pipe has an O.D. of 1" have anything to do with Jay's statement?

Think about it <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Gas pipe is PIPE. It is signified as 3/4" pipe, but it measures 1" on the O.D. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Convertiyota:
<STRONG>
I thinking he's saying that he used pipe designated as 3/4" and since the od measures 1", pipe IS measured by ID.</STRONG>

Exactly! <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

MYTH: Gears are too hard to setup for the average mechanic and should be done by an expert.

TRUTH: Only if you are <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> or a <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0">

Aaron <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

Some guy just nailed number one on the Ford board. He said for a wristed radius arm use a grade 5 to bolt it on the street because the grade 5 will show wear and handles shear stress better and the grade 8 will just shear off. It's under the wristed radius arm post.

Are you ready to get this weak ass post started????? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">


#777: East coast has the BEST wheel'n.....
<IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0">

Here's how the cooling myth was explained to me:

Removing the thermostat causes a drop in pressure in the head, which can cause the coolant to flash to steam in some restricted passages in the head, which is detrimental to overall cooling, not to mention the engine. In the radiator, the more mass moved through it for a given delta-T, the more heat removed, period. The relative velocity of the mass is not significant. There are no terms for fluid velocity in heat exchanger equations. Fluid dynamics plays a complicated role in the heat transfer coeeficient, depending on the design of the heat exchanger, but does not change the basic concept of q= K*m*delta-T.

The K factor in the equation (q= K*m*delta-T) is the heat transfer coefficient.

While this K factor changes with fluid velocity effects on the boundry layer, at the tube surface, the radiator tubes can be considered smooth wall pipe (at least on tubes in radiators that have been rodded out). Smooth wall pipe leaves a very minimal turburlent boundry layer in the fluid flow that has a potential to insulate the effective heat transfer. In long terms, the reduction in heat transfer from flowing water faster in the radiator is insignificant for the flow ranges and surface finish of the radiator tubes. In short terms, with this system, greater faster radiator flow is better for rejecting more heat.

The other myth issue is the "overheating effect" from running no thermostat. This was common on vertical tube radiators (the classic 56 Chevy) where the top radiator tank was fed off the T-stat housing and also held the radiator cap. The guys who started this myth were not telling everyone lies, they only reported what they observed. In these systems the t-stat holds back pressure in the cylinder head, and due to the t-stat restriction allows the radiator cap in the top tank to operate at a lower pressure than the block and head. These systems can run a 13 psi cap and operate at 19 psi or more in the block and head. This additional pressure resists flash boiling of vapor at the head surfaces. When you remove the t-stat restriction in these systems the cap sees the same pressure as the head, that settles out somewhat less that the restricted pressure. The cap lifts at 7-13 psi, lowering the potential of the system to prevent overheating. The cap with the t-stat lifts at 13 psi = 19 psi in the head , the cap without a t-stat still lifts at 13 psi = 13 psi in the head . Moroso and other companies have restrictor plates to replace the t-stat in these upright radiator systems to prevent a failed t-stat from ruining your day, but still place a restriction in the system to keep the vapor pressure flash point (the system pressure) high in the engine.

As for the bolt strength issue - what buddy nailed was the myth all right...but it still aint true. Do a search if you seek the truth...I'm as tired of correcting that one as Eric is of the Hollow one (sorry for bringing that up Eric )
<IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

That a 5,500 lb truck will perform better in deep mud with wide tires than with pizza cutters due to "floatation" <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">


TEX

4x4 Rag Myth #435:

Numerically high gears magically restore power to your rig.

Andy

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>Are you ready to get this weak ass post started????? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">


#777: East coast has the BEST wheel'n.....
<IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


ba hahahaha, i laugh.. should of known youd start something like that....lol


#776 west coast is the only place "hardcore" trails exist.. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG>
ba hahahaha, i laugh.. should of known youd start something like that....lol


#776 west coast is the only place "hardcore" trails exist.. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


ROTFLMFAO.... BigAss'dHeepGuy, Brutha wuzzzzz up!! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

#778
Mud is harder to wheel in......

#779 It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by ROKTOY:
<STRONG>I have one.....

Myth: Pipe is sized by i.d.

Jay</STRONG>

It is! tube is sized by the od.

Originally posted by BillaVista:
<STRONG>Here's how the cooling myth was explained to me:

Removing the thermostat causes a drop in pressure in the head, which can cause the coolant to flash to steam in some restricted passages in the head, which is detrimental to overall cooling, not to mention the engine. In the radiator, the more mass moved through it for a given delta-T, the more heat removed, period. The relative velocity of the mass is not significant. There are no terms for fluid velocity in heat exchanger equations. Fluid dynamics plays a complicated role in the heat transfer coeeficient, depending on the design of the heat exchanger, but does not change the basic concept of q= K*m*delta-T.

The K factor in the equation (q= K*m*delta-T) is the heat transfer coefficient.

While this K factor changes with fluid velocity effects on the boundry layer, at the tube surface, the radiator tubes can be considered smooth wall pipe (at least on tubes in radiators that have been rodded out). Smooth wall pipe leaves a very minimal turburlent boundry layer in the fluid flow that has a potential to insulate the effective heat transfer. In long terms, the reduction in heat transfer from flowing water faster in the radiator is insignificant for the flow ranges and surface finish of the radiator tubes. In short terms, with this system, greater faster radiator flow is better for rejecting more heat.

The other myth issue is the "overheating effect" from running no thermostat. This was common on vertical tube radiators (the classic 56 Chevy) where the top radiator tank was fed off the T-stat housing and also held the radiator cap. The guys who started this myth were not telling everyone lies, they only reported what they observed. In these systems the t-stat holds back pressure in the cylinder head, and due to the t-stat restriction allows the radiator cap in the top tank to operate at a lower pressure than the block and head. These systems can run a 13 psi cap and operate at 19 psi or more in the block and head. This additional pressure resists flash boiling of vapor at the head surfaces. When you remove the t-stat restriction in these systems the cap sees the same pressure as the head, that settles out somewhat less that the restricted pressure. The cap lifts at 7-13 psi, lowering the potential of the system to prevent overheating. The cap with the t-stat lifts at 13 psi = 19 psi in the head , the cap without a t-stat still lifts at 13 psi = 13 psi in the head . Moroso and other companies have restrictor plates to replace the t-stat in these upright radiator systems to prevent a failed t-stat from ruining your day, but still place a restriction in the system to keep the vapor pressure flash point (the system pressure) high in the engine.

</STRONG>


Didnt all this counteract that its a myth? <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> BTW dude, I still got a verticle tube radiator
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>
ROTFLMFAO.... BigAss'dHeepGuy, Brutha wuzzzzz up!! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

#778
Mud is harder to wheel in......</STRONG>


#780 goats are safe in the west! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

AWWWWW SHEEEYYYYAUUGHHHHHTTTTTTTTTT.....
hahahhahah.......

I wasn't expect'n that one...... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

#709... East coast guys like women...

708 west coast is full of straight men.... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

the #1 myth.............

WEST COAST GETS IT ALL THE TIME <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> ba hahahaha <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

#911....East coast women are better look'n..

#976....East coast guys never marry thier sister..

#781 Goats are safe near police cars.
#782 Goats are safe in Tennessee. (DRM can sense their presense)
LOL! <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0">
Here's a few from the hardware business perspective:
#783 an 8-32 machine screw is 8/32nds in diameter.
#784 you have to put the black wire and the white wire on the switch for it to work <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">
#785 WD-40 is a great all purpose lubricant
#786 it's OK to make a double male end extension cord when you f-up and string your x-mas lights in the wrong direction. (damn these people!)
#787 you can glue pvc and abs together for pressure applications
#788 superglue works great on plastic
#789 if a key doesn't work you just need to buff it more
#790 if you leave a pipe wrench out in the rain for two years, and then add a 3' breaker bar to it, and the jaws break, it's defective
#791 It's OK to replace two prong outlets with three prong outlets in houses that aren't wired for ground.

I could go on and on, but I'm beinginning to get upset. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>#911....East coast women are better look'n..

#976....East coast guys never marry thier sister..</STRONG>


ba hahaha the sister may be true in some select east coast states...lol


#975 west coast guys never take it in the arse.. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">


now for a truth!

east and west coast are american........ both get it... and

both will be kickin some bin laden ass real soon!
<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

Fun thread.

#4 - Thermostats are there to bring your temp UP, not down. Race cars run restrictor plates for the same reason, without the risk of failure. Heat transfers out of the coolant at the same rate it transers in. So
there.

The water pressure issues are interesting, gotta think about that. Can't see how head pressure could be that much higher than radiator pressure, but I could be wrong.

# 1,068 - My brand of rig is better than your brand of rig because ... uhh .. cuz ... uhh .... cuz my rig has a picture of calvin pissing on your rig. ( I have a GM, Dodge & Samurai)

Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG>

now for a truth!

east and west coast are american........ both get it... and

both will be kickin some bin laden ass real soon!
<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


Yes we will...yes we will....

Originally posted by CJ:
<STRONG>It is! tube is sized by the od.</STRONG>

Tube and pipe are not the same things <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Ok....listen up!!!

Pipe is not tube BUT they are both sized by o.d. The same sized (named) tube IS NOT the SAME o.d. as the same sized (named) pipe BUT both ARE sized by o.d.

I.D. of each is determined by wall thickness. Tubing wall thickness is usually specified as something like (.120" wall) and pipe wall thickness may be described in some cases same as tube and in other cases as Schedule or Wall designation....like Schedule 40 or as XXH wall.

3/4" tube is 3/4" o.d.
1" tube is 1" o.d.
12" tube is 12" o.d

3/4" pipe is 1.050" o.d.
1" pipe is 1.315" o.d.
12" pipe is 12.750" o.d.
14" pipe is 14" o.d.

A sized (named) pipe size is ALWAYS the same o.d. regardless of it's i.d. or wall thickness.

Just because the o.d. of pipe is often larger (and odd sized) than its named size, people assume pipe is sized by i.d. .....not so!!

Think about how big a nightmare it would be mating piping systems if each wall thickness necesitated a different o.d.

I still make a stand:

MYTH: Pipe is sized by i.d.

Jay

Originally posted by BillaVista:
<STRONG>Here's how the cooling myth was explained to me:

Removing the thermostat causes a drop in pressure in the head, which can cause the coolant to flash to steam in some restricted passages in the head, which is detrimental to overall cooling, not to mention the engine. In the radiator, the more mass moved through it for a given delta-T, the more heat removed, period. The relative velocity of the mass is not significant. There are no terms for fluid velocity in heat exchanger equations. Fluid dynamics plays a complicated role in the heat transfer coeeficient, depending on the design of the heat exchanger, but does not change the basic concept of q= K*m*delta-T.

The K factor in the equation (q= K*m*delta-T) is the heat transfer coefficient.

While this K factor changes with fluid velocity effects on the boundry layer, at the tube surface, the radiator tubes can be considered smooth wall pipe (at least on tubes in radiators that have been rodded out). Smooth wall pipe leaves a very minimal turburlent boundry layer in the fluid flow that has a potential to insulate the effective heat transfer. In long terms, the reduction in heat transfer from flowing water faster in the radiator is insignificant for the flow ranges and surface finish of the radiator tubes. In short terms, with this system, greater faster radiator flow is better for rejecting more heat.

The other myth issue is the "overheating effect" from running no thermostat. This was common on vertical tube radiators (the classic 56 Chevy) where the top radiator tank was fed off the T-stat housing and also held the radiator cap. The guys who started this myth were not telling everyone lies, they only reported what they observed. In these systems the t-stat holds back pressure in the cylinder head, and due to the t-stat restriction allows the radiator cap in the top tank to operate at a lower pressure than the block and head. These systems can run a 13 psi cap and operate at 19 psi or more in the block and head. This additional pressure resists flash boiling of vapor at the head surfaces. When you remove the t-stat restriction in these systems the cap sees the same pressure as the head, that settles out somewhat less that the restricted pressure. The cap lifts at 7-13 psi, lowering the potential of the system to prevent overheating. The cap with the t-stat lifts at 13 psi = 19 psi in the head , the cap without a t-stat still lifts at 13 psi = 13 psi in the head . Moroso and other companies have restrictor plates to replace the t-stat in these upright radiator systems to prevent a failed t-stat from ruining your day, but still place a restriction in the system to keep the vapor pressure flash point (the system pressure) high in the engine.

As for the bolt strength issue - what buddy nailed was the myth all right...but it still aint true. Do a search if you seek the truth...I'm as tired of correcting that one as Eric is of the Hollow one (sorry for bringing that up Eric )
<IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

You are fucking killing me with some of your post lately. You talk like a scientist, but you forget that before they talk they try everything first. If you had told me that when you tried this, It didn't work for you, then I would've believed you. You tell something that is second hand, you call fact. My experience is that when you have some sort of cooling problem, removing the T-stat will help cooling. The statments that you call fact, mean nothing if you havn't tried it first. $0.02

Major myth: Toyotas are the worlds best wheeler <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by badfish:
<STRONG> My experience is that when you have some sort of cooling problem, removing the T-stat will help cooling. </STRONG>

It will all depend on the CAUSE of the cooling problem. If there is a restriction on the cooling system, and the 'stat is the cause, then removing it will help.
However, under most conditions, 'stat removal will not stop overheating.

As for the grade 5 bolt myth. It probably started because a grade 5 will bend more than a grade 8 will. There are some applications that the grade 5 is actually a better choice than a grade 8.

East Coast, West Coast, who are we, Tupac and Biggie?? Death Row Wheeling? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

My favorite myth is that if you've never wheeled but you go out and spend $50,000 on a Sniper, you're going to be a Rock God the first weekend...

Originally posted by highlander:
<STRONG>Major myth: Toyotas are the worlds best wheeler <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


$ for $ YES THEY ARE....... NEWBIE
<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

#4362: lockers can make up for driving skill

#4363: you dont belong on the trail unless you have a $50K rig

and now for the zinger

#4364: Your not hardcore if ya dont have a d60 <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

OK, I just called up the other day and said I want a 4 foot piece of 1.25" DOM tube with .281" wall. That's all I said, didn't mention OD or ID. I got a piece of tube that was 1.25" diameter on the outside. Argue that all you want

Originally posted by ROKTOY:
<STRONG>
A sized (named) pipe size is ALWAYS the same o.d. regardless of it's i.d. or wall thickness.

Just because the o.d. of pipe is often larger (and odd sized) than its named size, people assume pipe is sized by i.d. .....not so!!

Think about how big a nightmare it would be mating piping systems if each wall thickness necesitated a different o.d.

I still make a stand:

MYTH: Pipe is sized by i.d.

Jay</STRONG>

*SMACK*!!!!!!

Come on how come no ones arguing with this <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

the way my teachers taut me about tubing and pipe is pretty much that pipe is measured inner dimmsion and has a thicker wall then tubing. pipe is measured inner dimmesnion because thats the way things flow through it.

Originally posted by NE-RokToy:
<STRONG>*SMACK*!!!!!!

Come on how come no ones arguing with this <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


Because they can't.... He's RIGHT!!!!!

A 1" pipe fitting will fit ANY wall thickness 1" PIPE, because the thicker you go the smaller the I.D.

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>
$ for $ YES THEY ARE....... NEWBIE
<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


'cept for the IFS Yota's <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

my favorite is: your battery will die if you set it on the ground. also i ain't sure about the thermostat business. at idle my camaro runs right at 180 degrees with thermostat. my truck doesnt have one and it usually gets pretty hot, but maybe the radiator just sucks

west coast <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">
east coast <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0">

texas <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by jakeoffroad:
<STRONG>west coast <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">
east coast <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0">

texas <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
awww com awwwwn show us your true colors!

<IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> texas <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">


<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by ROKTOY:
<STRONG>3/4" pipe is 1.050" o.d.
1" pipe is 1.315" o.d.
12" pipe is 12.750" o.d.
14" pipe is 14" o.d.

A sized (named) pipe size is ALWAYS the same o.d. regardless of it's i.d. or wall thickness.

Just because the o.d. of pipe is often larger (and odd sized) than its named size, people assume pipe is sized by i.d. .....not so!!


</STRONG>

So if a 3/4" pipe is 1.050" o.d. why is it called 3/4" pipe and not 1" pipe if it's sized by o.d.??

Originally posted by ROKTOY:
<STRONG>I still make a stand:

MYTH: Pipe is sized by i.d.

Jay</STRONG>

So if pipe isn't sized by i.d., just what the hell is it sized by?

Because it is RELATIVE to the I.D.

it is roughly 3/4"...
And like he said if you were to change the OD and not the ID you would NEVER get a fitting to match, there would be THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of fittings...

Originally posted by jakeoffroad:
<STRONG>my favorite is: your battery will die if you set it on the ground. </STRONG>

Batteriers that were made years and years ago would discharge if they were put down on cemete. The newer batteries have a case that's made differently. that's why they do not discharge now.

"6 = 8" ... 'cept for my 6 ... <IMG SRC="smilies/devil.gif" border="0">

You are fucking killing me with some of your post lately.

And you, my oh so eloquent friend are killing us all !


You talk like a scientist,
Duhhhh...maybe that's because I AM, or at least i was before I joined the military - BSc and worked as a reserch Chemist for a major pharmaceutical company, among other things. *smack*

The statments that you call fact, mean nothing if you havn't tried it first. $0.02
You tell something that is second hand, you call fact.

Oh...so it seems you're saying it's only fact if I've tried it or verified it personally? So if I say F=ma (Force = mass X acceleration), since I read this "second hand" in a book, and ol' Sir Issac Newton came up with it, not I, that it's not valid info, or I shouldn't believe it??? come on you <IMG SRC="smilies/clown.gif" border="0">

My experience is that when you have some sort of cooling problem, removing the T-stat will help cooling.

That's very nice, thanks for sharing....what does this have to do with my assertation that removing the thermostat will not cause overheating because the coolant "moves to fast to pick up heat" <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

The statments that you call fact, mean nothing if you havn't tried it first. $0.02

That's the most ludicrous thing I've heard in along time. Go back and read it again....you can't really mean that, surely?? Like maybe if I leap of a tall building I won't accelerate towards the ground at 9.8 meters per second squared, coz I haven't tried is so it can't be fact. What a stupid argument...say, why don't you try it and get back to us <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Sorry mate, you're going to have to do a lot better than that!!

Or keep it up...you're fucking killing me <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by RoverOver:
<STRONG>However, the biggest reason for the hollow driveshaft is that for a given weight, a hollow shaft is stronger.</STRONG>

True, but that doesn't have anything to do with the screwball myth that hollow is stronger than the same OD solid.

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>
$ for $ YES THEY ARE....... NEWBIE
<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Please show me a $1,000.00 Yota. Try a Scout, $750 for the rig, $250 SOA. You're there for a $1,000.00

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Like maybe if I leap of a tall building I won't accelerate towards the ground at 9.8 meters per second squared, coz I haven't tried is so it can't be fact. What a stupid argument...say, why don't you try it and get back to us <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Sorry mate, you're going to have to do a lot better than that!!

Or keep it up...you're fucking killing me <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">[/QB]


theoretically this is right....things fall towards earth at 9.8 meters/secods squared. however if you were to jump off a building you would not accelerate at this rate because of the force of friction acting opposite of gravity....

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Please show me a $1,000.00 Yota. Try a Scout, $750 for the rig, $250 SOA. You're there for a $1,000.00

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


I've bought 3 Running Toys in the last 6 months for 200 a each....

We aren't even gonna go into Toy vs Scout in aftermarket parts, cause you'd be going to a gun fight with a knife.....

Soa?? COME AWNNNNN...
Toy's come that way STOCK... You forgot to mention that Scouts have 0 caster and to do a SOA you have to cut and turn the knuckles and relocate spring pads (lots-o-work)..

DO you wanna talk cost of gear reduction too <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by mighty duck:
<STRONG>the way my teachers taut me about tubing and pipe is pretty much that pipe is measured inner dimmsion and has a thicker wall then tubing. pipe is measured inner dimmesnion because thats the way things flow through it.</STRONG>

Pipe may generally have a thicker wall thickness but not always. For instance 1" Schedule 10 is .109" wall.

I am not positive of this, but here is how I THINK the original pipe dimensions were derived. I have heard that, for instance, a 3/4" schedule 40 pipe was given dimensions to flow a 3/4" column of water. Hence the reason the i.d. is approximately 3/4".

3/4" schedule 40 is 1.050" o.d. and .824" i.d.

3/4" X-strong is 1.050" o.d. and .742" i.d.

3/4" XX-strong is 1.050" o.d. and .434" i.d.

Jay

So what you're saying is some, if not most, 3/4" pipe is approximately 3/4" i.d., and no 3/4" pipe is 3/4" o.d. and yet pipe is sized by o.d.?

Actually, I do understand what you're saying, but I still think it's a reach to call the statement "pipe is sized by i.d." a myth when the size refers to the nominal i.d. not the o.d.

A quote from the "Machinery's handbook" which should put it to bed:

Wrought Steel Pipe - ANSIB36.10-1979 covers dimensions of welded and seamless wrought steel pipe, for high or low temperatures or pressures. The word "pipe" as distinguished from "tube" is used to apply to tubular products of dimensions commonly used for pipelines and piping systems. Pipe dimensions of sizes 12 inches and smaller have outside diameters numerically larger than the corresponding nominal sizes wheras outside diameters of yubes are identical to nominal sizes.

The size of all pipe is identified by the nominal pipe size. The manufacture of pipe in the nominal size of 1/8" to 12" inclusive, is based on a standardized outside diameter. This OD was originally selected so that pipe with a standard OD and having a wall thickness which was typical of the period would have an inside diameter approximately equal to the nominal size. Although there is now no such relation between the existing standard thicknesses, ODs and nominal sizes, these nominal sizes and standard ODs continue in use as "standard".

There are then pages of tables. For example. A 1" pipe will have an OD of 1.315" and a wall thickness depending on its schedule as follows.

40 - 0.133
80 - 0.179
160 - .250

My apologies if that all sounds too "scientific" <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Thanks Bella Vista!
Jay

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>
I've bought 3 Running Toys in the last 6 months for 200 a each....
</STRONG>
And your point..... When was the last time you fit 4 in the cab of your $200.00 Yota.

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>We aren't even gonna go into Toy vs Scout in aftermarket parts, cause you'd be going to a gun fight with a knife.....
</STRONG>
You have to have fab skills, and a little creativity to own a binder...

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>Soa?? COME AWNNNNN...
Toy's come that way STOCK... You forgot to mention that Scouts have 0 caster and to do a SOA you have to cut and turn the knuckles and relocate spring pads (lots-o-work)..
</STRONG>
The zero caster thing is a myth, learn how to drive. SOA nada problem, I think there are a couple of Scouts running those. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>DO you wanna talk cost of gear reduction too <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
Bring it, what year did Yota offer a tranny with 6.3 to 1 first, Mr Scout doubler box around $1750. Jack O'brein gears $1750. Tera Low $750.00. Plus Dana 44's, parts a plenty. Why don't you call Redline to get rid of the <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> fields <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>
$ for $ YES THEY ARE....... NEWBIE
<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

homie dont think so <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> do ya really think plasic toys will be still wheelin in 50 years like MB's still are? <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0">

Tell ya what.....


My rig is on crappy 3" spings it has a 4.7:1, Lockrights and NOTHING else..
Total cost WAY less than 1k in "build up"


I'm calling BOTH of you out to Frostoberfest to show me how your "NON-Toy rigs" wheel....

It ALL comes down to BRING IT.....

I'll send you and your scout PACKING!!!
<IMG SRC="smilies/skull.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/skull.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/skull.gif" border="0">

Know you got me wondering.......

Ask yourself this question.......
If Scouts are sooooooooo Bitch'n, why are there so few of them on the trail???

Toy's out number Scouts 100+ to one..

Do you really think that YOU have the "top secret hot ticket" to Hardcore???
<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Ask, "If you were to start over, what would you buy?"
and 1/2 the Heep guys on the BB agree ...
TOYOTA!!!!!!!!

there's WAY too many arguements going on in 1 post here <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep2.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>

Ask yourself this question.......
If Scouts are sooooooooo Bitch'n, why are there so few of them on the trail???
</STRONG>

youre looking at it from a limited view, in CA or where ever, it may be that way - in CO I have seen many more EBs and Scouts than toys on the trail - also look at how many Scouts are left in the US vs Toys and alot of those are not converted for heavy 4x use as most owners also like and appreciate them in their original form - no disrepect to Toys - I like them, but I would not buy one myself, just personal pref - and most of my wheeling buddies feel the same, besides most of the guys I do wheel with that have toys, have the same axles as most EBs and Scouts came with - why not start with them?
- don't mean to pull EBs into a Scout vs Toy debate, but thats who I wheel with

[ 10-05-2001: Message edited by: BRS ]

I'm not try'n to be ass, And I do get near sighted.....
I know that Toys are not the HOT ticket elsewhere but again sometimes (most of the time) I forget there's life (almost) outside California.... sorry.....

<IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bender.gif" border="0">

The Toy population in AZ has risen the last year or two, but CJs and YJs still WAY outnumber everything else out here on the trail.
Jay

no scouts out this way... daamn cool rigs but... i would buy/ build a toy before one of em too..... of course..... jeep is da way to go.. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Tin Bender:
<STRONG>
Ask, "If you were to start over, what would you buy?"
and 1/2 the Heep guys on the BB agree ...
TOYOTA!!!!!!!!</STRONG>

Oh Hell yeah. I love my heep, don't get me wrong. But I've built one already. A toy would be next just for fun. Or mabe a sammi or an EB or an .... awe fock it. I think my next one will be a tube framed hybrid with an AMC Pacer body.

My point is you guys are arguing over apples and oranges. The common denominator is "if built right" Toys get it. Scout's get it. Jeeps get it.. etc. Again "built right". That being said, it's all a matter of personal preference. Nuf said.

Lop'd
It wasn't direct'd at "Totally" built rigs... Because you end up with a little bit of everything....

What would be the BEST CHEAPEST STRONGEST rig that could be built to be able to do 99% of trails....

Say like the Hammerz.....
Surprise (long gone).....
The CON'.....
The big Cali trails...

And the reason I say CALIFORNIA TRAILS is because the guy who started the whole Scout thing is from CALIFORNIA!!! (not MUD) <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">