Well after fall crawl this year....

http://img2.putfile.com/main/10/29323582012.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/10/29323582135.jpg

I decided its time to go 1 tons...

Doing a dana 60, out of a 1996 Ram 2500
5.13s
Lockright

and a 14BFF out of a 74 chevy
5.13s
shaved
discs
detroit

Meanwhile I'm also upgrading my control arms up front for my skyjackar 5" short arms to homemade adjustable short arms w/ johnny joints.. Since I crushed the lowers pretty well.

All 2.5" JJs
Lowers are 1.25" shanks and tube is 2" OD w/ .250 wall
Uppers are 1" shank and tube is 1.75" OD w/ .120 wall

Going to use these to push the axle forward an inch or 2...(as far as I can go before trackbar gets in the way so I can get a better approach angle and so I can better clear tires..

Rims and tires..

39.5" TSLs on H2 rims.

MIke.

Pics of your rig man!

Heres the 14 bolt evolution..


http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_596_full.jpg
Looks good for a 34 year old axle thats been sitting outside for 5 years.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_597_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_598_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_599_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_600_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_601_full.jpg
spider gear shims a lil beat up..

13 bolt conversion..

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_583_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_584_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_585_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_588_full.jpg


Gained about an 1" or a lil more of clearence and got rid of that nasty lip... Just hope that it won't leak at the bottom.

MIke.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_592_full.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/34923530270.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/34923530263.jpg

Don't have any pics of the discs and stuff...

I also welded up where the tubes enter the housing as I have read too much about tubes twisting out to be able to sleep at night w/ some extra protection..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/34923530390.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/34923530332.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/34923530499.jpg
1410 joint yoke from high angle driveline...

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/34923530416.jpg
Detroit.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/36121405280.jpg

One 6 motorsports(yes ricer shop) never lets me down when it comes to random BS I need.. went and picked up and O2 eliminator to use as a fill plug since I did a diff fuel change on a 10 bolt in highschool and I refuse to ever again use the side fill plug on this damn axle haha...

Beefing up the diff cover... 3/16 steel..(forklift + c clamp + BFH makes a badass CNC press haha)

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/36220041965.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/36220041911.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/36220041913.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/36220042028.jpg

MIke.

Regearing...

http://img2.putfile.com/main/1/222220965.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/1/222220987.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/1/222220957.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/1/222221074.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/1/222221099.jpg

After a few attempts...

Perfect..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/1/302463534.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/1/302463531.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/1/302463517.jpg


MIke.

Dana 60 evolution....

http://img2.putfile.com/main/11/32000491638.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/11/32000491699.jpg

Truck was wrecked.... The passanger side control arm bracket was bent on all 3 axes.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/11/32000491687.jpg


Hubs were a battle to get out.. finally went to get a cheap air chisel to get it out..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/11/32003422251.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/11/32003422316.jpg

Bent...

http://img2.putfile.com/main/11/32123301840.jpg

Now better.. well sort of... did some final touches but don't have pictures..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/11/32123301811.jpg

Lockright in...

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/35815403373.jpg

New u joints.. DAYUMMMMMM.... 5-806x are huge compared to those shitty ass 5-760x dana 44 joints..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/35815403325.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/36120424197.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/36120424156.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/36120424191.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/12/36121405323.jpg

Kinda bootleg looking but I'm not about to go spend 150+ on the warn guard.. and I can't use any aftermarket diff cover since I don't have highsteer and w/ my thuren x-over steering I have .500 in of clearnce between the diff and the tierod at full lock.. and a crane cover is way over budget... Still gotta get a grinder and smooth out the welds since a flux core 135 welder doesn't put out the nicest looking welds...

Skipped a lil and..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/2/3317332956.jpg

Regeared...

http://img2.putfile.com/main/2/3317332933.jpg

Got my front pinion yoke off shakerbuilt on ebay..

1350 joint... wanted to go to 1410, but my driveline shop said it would be rather more expensive getting a slip yoke for a 1410, so I just stuck w/ 1350... which will be plenty strong..

MIke.

Started this project mid Nov... since I'm at school I'd go home on the weekends and work on it.. then over break I did most the work... some delays put the project on hold.. I was hoping to get the 13BFF in before winter break got out but no such luck..

Today I built my new links...

http://img2.putfile.com/main/2/3317332961.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/2/3317332938.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/2/3317333022.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/2/3320372711.jpg

Since once again I only have a 135 flux core... I decided that on the .250 wall I'd drill a few holes on each end so that I could make some plug welds to ensure that the weld will hold.. Either way it should be good since I got a good inch of heat discoloration and I got penetration through the adapter even...


MORE TO COME!!!!

MIke.

Heres some pics of the rig...

http://pavementsucks.com/gallery/images/mikeg1005_1181282681.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_529_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_565_full.jpg
Ass is dovetailed....

This pic doesn't have the bumper but its the same one as before the dovetail just not narrowed...which is home built along w/ the rock rails...

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791159_563_full.jpg
lol and this is all being done at my work and my drive(well not w/ the snow now) but its kinda hard to have a shop while at school and while having parents w/ two cars in the garage lol.

Specs.... before 1 ton swap..

7" suspension lift.. it doesn't really measure up to 7"...
7" skyjacker coils
5" skyjacker control arms w/ relocation brackets.
Thuren fab tracbar
Thuren fab x-over steering
extreme drop pitman
BDS shackle flip
stock leaf pack w/ stock block....
36x12.50R15 TSL radials w/ 15x8 American Racing Diamond Backs...
4.56s + e-locker/detroit

MIke.

Nice:smokin:, keep the progress coming!

nice build thread!! keep it coming - whatever the pace it's VERY nice coverage.

Any reason you went with a 14bff over a dana 60/70/80 over the obvious bombproof ness of the ring&pinion?

I say leave it on 36's and just gain an assload of strength. I doubt you'll ever break tha nice 1ton set with 36's.

I already sold the 36s.... Its too long just to sit on 36s... the breakover point sucks... Also the 36s were for 15" rims so it wouldn't work... 39.5s should be a nice setup... Get me over most the stuff I get my driveshaft hung up on .. The 1/2 ton axles held up fine w/ the 36s..just for some reason I broke everythin at Harlan.. I did get an e-locker up front so it wasn't locked all the time...

I went w/ the 14BFF because for starters I found one for 100 bucks... A detroit is almost half that of what a 70 costs... Dana 80 was too big, and a dana 70 the cheapest I could find is like 400 dollars and it wasn't even a 35 spline.. Also I wanted to do something difference because everyone that does 1 ton swaps in dodges does dana 70s... so I figured I'd do something more unique... Also I think parts are much cheaper and if I ever bust a shaft its not that hard to find another 14 bolt since theres like eleventy billion of them...


MIke.

everyone that does 1 ton swaps in dodges does dana 70s... so I figured I'd do something more unique...

Heynow... :flipoff2:

(notice I didn't quote the 'dime a dozen' part...)

lol I should say everyone w/ 1500s on pavementsucks.com that usually the first axle in mind(not bashing anyone of course cause a 70 is a good axle) but don't get me wrong.. if I had found a 70 for a good price I would have used it.. but I figured this.. the only desireable 70 i'd want would be one out of a 94-02 dodge... since its go the tone ring so I'd still have ABS and a speedo w/ the dakota digital box...but since those are hard to find and for some reason more expensive than most even though they are only 32 not 35 spline... I figured why not do 14bff instead of some other 70 that would require the same work to make it fit and would end up costing me at the very least 2-300 more for the detroit.. not to mention cost of the axle itself being more...

MIke.

MIke, where did you get jour joints? The look like the Currie / JKS ones? What is the width of the joint? Does it fit in the factory brackets, or are you shimming them with washers? IIRC the Currie/JKS ones are all 9/16 Mounting bolts. The 2002 D60 Front I picked up has 5/8" lowers. Are you going to weld up and re drill the lower holes in the housing bracket? I was planning on that, going with a round hole and elimnating the cam bolts. Or did you find Joints W/ 5/8" holes? I've been thinking about getting a set and drilling them out, but worry about the strength of the joint afterwards.

BTW where are you located?

Mike it looks very good. When's first trip?

MIke, where did you get jour joints? The look like the Currie / JKS ones? What is the width of the joint? Does it fit in the factory brackets, or are you shimming them with washers? IIRC the Currie/JKS ones are all 9/16 Mounting bolts. The 2002 D60 Front I picked up has 5/8" lowers. Are you going to weld up and re drill the lower holes in the housing bracket? I was planning on that, going with a round hole and elimnating the cam bolts. Or did you find Joints W/ 5/8" holes? I've been thinking about getting a set and drilling them out, but worry about the strength of the joint afterwards.

BTW where are you located?

They are currie... got them from JRToffroad.com ended up being like 33 shipped a piece w/ the discount... Width is 2.5" I'm going to weld up the lower holes since its a cam bolt so its not a hole but a slot.... and the uppers are going to be in my relocation bracket which is smaller than 9/16 so I'm going to drill that bracket.. But ya these are 9/16. You don't need the cam bolts since now the arm will be adjustable to change caster...

BTW I'm located in Arlington Heights IL, and I'm planning on having this thing readybefore the beginning of April...

MIke.

They are currie... got them from JRToffroad.com ended up being like 33 shipped a piece w/ the discount... Width is 2.5" I'm going to weld up the lower holes since its a cam bolt so its not a hole but a slot.... and the uppers are going to be in my relocation bracket which is smaller than 9/16 so I'm going to drill that bracket.. But ya these are 9/16. You don't need the cam bolts since now the arm will be adjustable to change caster...

BTW I'm located in Arlington Heights IL, and I'm planning on having this thing readybefore the beginning of April...

MIke.

Mike Lemme know if you need a hand I am local . 30-35 mins . And what is the discount for? Pirate?

Mike Lemme know if you need a hand I am local . 30-35 mins . And what is the discount for? Pirate?

Ya pirate.. I forgot the code though but if you PM them I'm sure you'll get it... Do you have a shop or any indoor place w/ tools/welders etc?

MIke.

I have a 3 Car Garage. 220 Welder , torch , Press, Lots of hand tools.Lots of other stuff. Parts to start building a Bender , and Plasma is going to be getting ordered soon.

hmm thats a good thing to know... lol now the ultimate question.. is the garage door tall enough.. haha

MIke.

hmm thats a good thing to know... lol now the ultimate question.. is the garage door tall enough.. haha

MIke.

How tall is your rig? And if your 8 lug I have friends with rollers if ever needed.

It sat at about 7' 3" w/ 36s but I'm going to get some stockers to stick on my H2 rim until I get both axles in and order 39.5s and right now I have some bald 33s on it since I sold the 36s.. so I'd say right around 6' 9" 7' 0"...

MIke.

Yeah that would fit. Here is a picture ....

Here is one of my neighborhood.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w253/Big91RustyBucket/Projunk/IMG_0166.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w253/Big91RustyBucket/Projunk/GrandCanyonVacation016.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w253/Big91RustyBucket/Projunk/IMG_0959.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w253/Big91RustyBucket/Projunk/IMG_0977.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w253/Big91RustyBucket/Projunk/IMG_0978.jpg

I'm in Frankfort too, well Green Garden anyway :D I've got a nice big 40x50 shop with a 2 post lift, Forklift, Press, and NO heat:shaking: Next year on the heat.. If you need anythin machined, though my tool room and machine shop ARE heated. I have a Lathe and Mill, along with the Mig, Plasma etc..

Unfortunately, I have been SO busy at work lately, I've had very limited time to play.

Phil, where in FF are you? I'm on 88th Ave north of Dralle.

Great looking build Mike!

Big91RustyBucket,
We offer a 5% discount to all pirate4x4 users, check sig for details:

Thanks guys...
Thanks JRT.. the johnny joints are working good so far.


Work is going slow.. between school and really shitty weather I don't have much time.. Well I guess I do but who wants to sit under a truck swapping out axles in 30* degree weather.. I got spring break in 2 weeks so hopefully the weather will be nice.. thats when I'm going to get the axles in.. hopefully get the 14 bolt in next weekend so that way I can have the shop shorten my driveshaft before I pull the front axle out.. otherwise I'll have no driveshafts...


MIke.

Thanks guys...
Thanks JRT.. the johnny joints are working good so far.


Work is going slow.. between school and really shitty weather I don't have much time.. Well I guess I do but who wants to sit under a truck swapping out axles in 30* degree weather.. I got spring break in 2 weeks so hopefully the weather will be nice.. thats when I'm going to get the axles in.. hopefully get the 14 bolt in next weekend so that way I can have the shop shorten my driveshaft before I pull the front axle out.. otherwise I'll have no driveshafts...



MIke.

Lemme Know if you need any help at all.

For sure man... ya sucks your kinda far from me... I got a bad 44 hub bearing so I don't want to take the truck anywhere farther than the gas station...

MIke.

For sure man... ya sucks your kinda far from me... I got a bad 44 hub bearing so I don't want to take the truck anywhere farther than the gas station...

MIke.

I work in Addison , so I know hor far it is . 80 mile commute every day :(

I work in Addison , so I know hor far it is . 80 mile commute every day :(

Dayum.. that does suck... espcially with gas being so high around here...

MIke.

Dayum.. that does suck... espcially with gas being so high around here...

MIke.

So you done yet?

Alright got some updates.. this weekend... assuming the weather cooperates the 14bolts going in.. I ordered tires and shock tabs yesterday... tires should be here next week and the shock tabs by the end of the week so I'll have everyhting I need to get the axle in.

MIke.

Everyone keep their fingers crossed for good weather.. got all my stuff ready for the 14 bolt swap.. tires will be here tmrw!!! Fast ass shipping on national tire and wheel they also price matched me on the lowest I found.. great guys...

MIke.

Weather is great here in vegas :flipoff2:

Well I got the rear axle out today.. and made sure my perches and all were at the right angle for the pinion... came across one problem..

The u bolts I have are for 3.5" axles and the 14 bolt is a 3 3/8". Theres a little bit of play in them.. bout 1/16" each side.. will this be ok? I have a feeling it wont matter becuase when I look at the stock spring plate(goes around the axle) the contact point w/ the stock plate is about the same or less than a rounded u bolt.. so the extra room on the sides would have any effect regardless if it was tighter or not... right?

MIke.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321555.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321589.jpg

Welding up the spring perches.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321598.jpg

Shock brackets on.. I got some tight clearence ones cause the stock 9.25 style always got hung up on everything espcially backing up.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321629.jpg


Teaching my bud how to weld a lil.. .cool picture..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321610.jpg


http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321695.jpg

14 bolt ready to go in.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321686.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321762.jpg

Ground the block down so it would better sit on a flat perch

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321719.jpg


http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321841.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321869.jpg

pinion angle looking good

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321731.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321784.jpg

***** ran into a little issue.. the ruffstuffspecialties disc convo brackets are design a little wrong for our application.. since the leaf spring perches have to be moved out for the dodge and the brackets are set at X* angle... when you try to pull out the top caliper cross pin, it will come in contact with the u bolt.. so I just took an angle grinder and clearenced it a little so it would come out.
http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321764.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321973.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321891.jpg

Swap went really smooth... I ended up welding the perches with a 110v welder... just did 3 passes.. I HIGHLY doubt they are gonna go anywhere.. I got the spring perch.. 1/4" to glow red in the sunlight.. and I'm sure I got more than enough penetration on the 1/2" axle tube... I also cut a little channel into the axle tube that way it will fill in and penetrate better..

Now just gotta bleed the brakes and fill the diff..

I actually might get lucky and not have to shorten my driveshaft... can someone do me a favor.. measure me the distance from the output shaft on the transfer case(very tip where the spline ends) and one of the bolt holes on the pinion yoke.. tell me the lenght.. the truck has to be a 1500 ext cab short bed.. perferably w/ similar lift to mine.. Let me know if its 67" if it is.. then the 14 bolt is not longer than the 9.25 and therefore you don't have to shorten your driveshaft.

MIke.

nice thornturds! :flipoff2:

looks good mang

my thought exactly. Thornturds and lift blocks. mmm-mm!

lookin good otherwise though :)

my thought exactly. Thornturds and lift blocks. mmm-mm!

lookin good otherwise though :)

lol... I need a set of rollers that would fit 15" rims and my bud had a set of worn out ones laying around... figured they'd do me good..

The lift blocks come stock in all dodges... those aren't aftermarket.. hopefully someday I'll pick up a small leaf pack and eliminate the blocks...

BTW... I know the welds blow ass... kinda hard to run a good bead with a 110v flux core when your trying to get really good penetration in a 1/2" tube... But on the spring perches I did do 3 passes so I highly doubt those are going anywhere..

Oh.. and learn something from my dumb pollack ass... to test if the shock tabs will not break off... do not hit them with a hammer 30 seconds after welding them.. it tends to deform the bolt holes... don't ask how I know....Thankfully he had a angle drill at work I had access to to redrill.


MIke.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7615424955.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7615424978.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321965.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/7603321650.jpg

MIke.

H2s really look pimp on Dodges with a set of HD Dodge centercaps.

Just sayin..... :) Those 38s? 40s?

H2s really look pimp on Dodges with a set of HD Dodge centercaps.

Just sayin..... :) Those 38s? 40s?

I was actually thinking about those center caps myself... those are 39.5s

MIke.

Got some work done on the 60..

Pulled together the hub/rotor/lug stud

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8122552474.jpg

Filling in the cam bolt holes.. to be redrilled to 9/16 for the johnny joints

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8122552469.jpg

Filled in and ground down..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8122552458.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8122552476.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8122552594.jpg

Built the lower control arm bracket skid plates.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8122552532.jpg


BTW... don't you just LOVE how clean of welds flux core wire makes... :shaking:

Don't have pics yet but I'll get them up.. I'm reenfocing the lower mount w/ some 1/8" flat... and then drilling out for the JJs.

MIke.

Alright... so I got the holes drilled out for the 9/16" johnny joint... took a lil while to do since I had to figure out exactly where to drill them so they'd be level and fit properly(since I had no guide holes)

Tomorrow is Easter so probably after I get back from my grandmas going to go back into work... finish up the lower mounts(clean up, make sure JJ fits...) then bring it home and get it ready for swapping out..

MIke.

Nice build

What are you doing with your speedo?
How will you make it read with a 14 bolt?

Well two options.. Either A- I'm going to find a front ABS sensor... somewhere cheap since NAPA and all the other stores want 400 fucken dollars for a 4 foot cable and a magnetic sensor to read the tone ring on the front axle(since I figured out I can pick up a speed reading off my front ABS, and the dana 60 I found had ABS)

Or

If I don't I'm going to wire up the dakota digital box.. just pull a signal off the tranny speed sensor on the O/D unit... and then into the box and then the pull in the signal line from the tone ring into the box and that way I'll get a reading..

MIke.

So today was front end tear down.. got everything out except for the front driveshaft cause I can't freaking break the bolts haha...

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8401414289.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8401515754.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8401515788.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8401515871.jpg

Job well done...
http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8401515787.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8401515832.jpg

Bashed up control arms..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8401515981.jpg

Pretty sure I needed new bushings..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8401515996.jpg

I got the contrl arm brackets off the 44 tonight.. Gonna set them up on the 60 tmrw... then drill out the holes in the frame for the JJ bolts..

One problem I ran into.. I need to open up the upper control arm mount(the actual relocation bracket) because the JJ is about 1/8-3/16" too wide to slide in right... gnna have to figure that out tmrw.

MIke.

If I don't I'm going to wire up the dakota digital box.. just pull a signal off the tranny speed sensor on the O/D unit... and then into the box and then the pull in the signal line from the tone ring into the box and that way I'll get a reading..

MIke.

Interesting. Got more info on that?
I am helping a friend put a 10.5 and 60 from an 05 Ford into his 2000.
I would like to pickup off the tranny with that dakota box, but I am just looking for more info on it.

Interesting. Got more info on that?
I am helping a friend put a 10.5 and 60 from an 05 Ford into his 2000.
I would like to pickup off the tranny with that dakota box, but I am just looking for more info on it.

Yes Mike, Could you fill us in. I was going to ask you over on PS, But Mark got to it first here.

I'd like to hear about the Dakota Digital box too, but on the '05 Ford axles - that should have a tone ring already. If nothing has changed in RWSS land since '96, the Dodge sensor will fit in the hole on the Sterling if you take off the cast fins around the hole. That's how I'm running the 10.25 in my Dakota.

I'd like to hear about the Dakota Digital box too, but on the '05 Ford axles - that should have a tone ring already. If nothing has changed in RWSS land since '96, the Dodge sensor will fit in the hole on the Sterling if you take off the cast fins around the hole. That's how I'm running the 10.25 in my Dakota.

I pulled the ring when I geared and locked the 10.5. Putting it back in is an option, but I assume I'd still need a box to convert the pulses from ford to dodge. and if i got the box, picking up the single from the tranny would be easier.

Did you have to redo your speedo signal or was it correct (ish?)

Not gonna lie.. I don't completely know how to do the dakota digital box.. I talked to them a lil about it.. they explained some stuff.. its basically gonna be a try error thing for me.. but I'll def get info up about it if I get it working all good.

MIke.

there was a thread on pavement sucks where a guy made a tone ring for the 14 bolt. that was a while ago. good luck with that. bad thing about the ford crap is the bolt pattern is diffrent.

It wouldn't be all "that" hard in theory.. the main thing is if the area where the tone ring would be is flat or if its on an angle cause mounting the sensor on an angle would be intersesting..

The tone ring you'd just have to get a tone ring from a dana 70 or something w/ a 10.50 ring gear and machine a lip on one half of the carrier..

MIke.

60 w/ brackets on it.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8420290246.jpg

Installing it.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8420290327.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8420290317.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8420290420.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8420290434.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8420290425.jpg

Trimmed the trackbar bracket so I can push the axle forward.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8420290258.jpg

New links..

http://img2.putfile.com/main/3/8420290558.jpg

So the 60s in.. all done except for steering and trackbar(which I can't get the jam nut loosened yet) Tomorrow I'll get the trackbar in and I'll adjust everything/ push the axle forward.

Right now.. I have 1.25" of room before the diff comes into contact w/ the trackbar.. I have about 2.5" or so of room total I can move it if I install bump stops in the right place.

MIke.

newer model 14 bolts prolly have tone rings. they should work... the ring gear might be too think unless they make aftermarket gears for the newer ones.

there was a thread on pavement sucks where a guy made a tone ring for the 14 bolt. that was a while ago. good luck with that. bad thing about the ford crap is the bolt pattern is diffrent.

that was madram wasn't it?

So basically I installled everything and one of the coils(driver) sags more than it did before.. I measured everything.. its al good... proper coils on each side.. not switched. But one measure 17.875" bucket to bucket and the others 16.120 bucket to bucket.... Maybe they just need to be driven around on and they'll realign but ya.. I mean the dodge naturally leans like .5-.75" to the driverside.. but not as much as it is now.

MIke.

newer model 14 bolts prolly have tone rings. they should work... the ring gear might be too think unless they make aftermarket gears for the newer ones.

nope gm still gets vss from the tranny or t-case tail. but I know older fords with the 8x6.5 pattern cam with vss on the diff.

nope gm still gets vss from the tranny or t-case tail. but I know older fords with the 8x6.5 pattern cam with vss on the diff.

Ya the D70 from the fords came w/ it.

MIke.

10.25/10.5" as well.

all that work and still short arms?

I didn't do long arms for the fact that I have dropped down on the arms so many times that I'd crush my long arms(if I didn't build them beefy as shit). I'm planning to do radius arms(like mountainram) in the future. Just I wanted to get this truck done w/ one tons and then in the future do long arms(if I decide I want them) I didn't want the truck out of commision for so long you know cause I'd have to redesign stuff/ frame mounts etc. The short arms I did cuase I wanted to move the axle and I crushed my lowers so I had to update anyways. It doesn't matter cuase I lost what.. 80 bucks on weld-ins and 30 dollars on tube on the short arms, the JJs I can always reuse(and plan to) on my long arms.

Got some updates.. the 1 tons are in, everything good.. took care of the brakes.. My driveshafts are shortened and really to be picked up.. Just waiting on Don Thuren over at thurenfabrication.com to send me some new weld-ins for my steering and tell me how much I gotta shorten it... The steering arms are apperently narrower on the dana 60 then on the 44 and I didn't know about that.. SO once I get that all take care of its to the aligment shop if it needs it and then the tires are goin on.

MIke.

:beer:

Got some updates.. Driveshafts are in the thing.. I moved it up and down the driveway a lil the other day. I went and bled the brakes.. each caliper 3 times, moving farthest to closest, and did it like 3 times total.. with the truck on a swell. I discovered that I can't get the brakes to stiffen up.. I'm probably going ot have to change of to a 2001+ 2500/3500 master cylinder since the bore on the 1500 on is a 1.25 and the other is 1.3125 so it will flow more fluid... The brakes stop but the peddle bottoms out w/o too much effort. The new steering parts should be here this week.. so this weekend/if I go home during the week will be changing the Master cylinder and doing the steering...

Also the truck has ABS... I'm never going to use it again.. but I have read that to properly bleed the unit you should cycle the thing.. if I'm never going to use it.. and I bled the brakes normally.. would it matter if I bleed the ABS or not w/ the thing cycling?

MIke.

if you let the brakes dry out, potentially yes. I'm still using my stock Dakota MC with huge Ford twin piston fronts and I think the 10.25 2.5" drum wheel cylandars in back are 1.25" bore. When the rear brakes are adjusted right I cannot hit the floor and the brakes will put you through the windshield. it'll lock the tires in a panic stop (towing ~3500-4000# on Saturday....).

If my rear drums come out of adjustment too far I may be able to hit the floor on the first press but the second is firm.

If it is squishy at the end of travel you have failed at the bleeding. If it is long travel but firm your idea on replacing the master is the right track. If you really don't ever want your ABS, plumb around it and remove it from the equation.

Its not firm.. I can press it with almost no effort and it will go to the floor.. I mean I bled the thing a few times.. How much fluid do you actually have to pump out to get it bled right? I thought once the air stops flowing its done? I bled brakes once lol back in highschool. Does air stay in the line or does it automatically move to the end of the line under pressure? Cuase if it doens't maybe I still have air somewhere..

MIke.

I should add.. the when the truck is not on.. AKA no vacuum to the booster.. the peddle is rock hard... idk if that makes a difference but I always thought that was a sign of well bled... But when the booster is engaged/engine on.. the thing goes to the floor.

MIke.

Well I haven't updated in a while...

I got finals week this week so no progress.

But the thing moves.. drove it around last weekend finally after shortening the steering...

The brakes are fine now.. I put the calipers w/ the bleeder screws at the bottom.. flipped them so they are at the top... bled them and now the truck stops no problem.

I'm going to take a week off before going to work for the summer and finish the truck.. already talked to my shop teacher from highschool.. going to go back there and use his tire machine to get the 39s on it and from there on its just trimming the fenders to fit the TSLs and figuring out bumpstops and the trucks good to go.

MIke.

what do you know, bleed it and it works.... :rolleyes:

glad to hear the progress.

what do you know, bleed it and it works.... :rolleyes:

glad to hear the progress.

lol.. mounted the rear calipers upside down.. w/ the bleeder screws at the bottom... so the air never got out... this never even crossed my mind when I was putting the brakes on the 14bolt lol.

MIke.

Sorry I didn't help ya with that Mike. I recall reading that and making sure mine were correct when I installed them but that was 3 years ago and I have killed off a few of those brain cells since then. :D

glad you sorted it out! Good call on short arms. I have taco'd so many short arms, I don't know how tough you would have to build long arms to have a 7000 lb truck smashing them into things...,... (Consider i have more weight on my front axle (4klb)alone then most buggy's weigh).

the secret is to not /slam/ them into things :)

My arms are just starting to bend a little bit and they are only 1.5" .250 wall DOM. They have plenty of scars on them from dragging and rubbing but I'm a gentle driver generally and don't drop my truck on them.

Similar ballpark weight: around 6200-6300 trail weight.

I don't really drop my truck on stuff.. they just happen to get caught up in stuff...

I was thinking about it last night.. I figured if I ever went to long arms I'd do a radius arm setup like Todd(mountainram) has... that works really well.. its a much simplier design and I don't have to make weird frame mounts. I would make the lower out of 2" OD .250 wall.. and then rip(my highschool wood shop teacher would be proud for the vocab used here lol).. a piece of 2.5" .250 wall in half and weld each half the the bottom of each radius arm.. That way the bottoms would be .5 thick... but wouldn't weigh as much/ be as large as if I was to sleeve the entire thing over... Not sure yet... gonna go out and wheel it for now haha.

more updates to come.. its finals week so I'm kinda busy.. then followed by 2 to 3 days of heavy drinking and partying... I'm going to take a week off before going back to work this summer so I can finish everything on this truck...and get it ready for a trip to the badlands and Moab/CO this summer.

MIke.

interesting idea. if mine start to frown more I may think about plating the bottom like that. I'd rather build new arms out of box and plate like Duracim is running under his Durango though, and make my tires not rub them anymore.

I am not a big fan of radius arms. Wiht both uppers connected, they limit flex, (which is fine most of the time) with only a single connected they tend to exhbit a lot of dive since anti-squat is so bad with them.

You can get by with them, but a proper four link or three link will work better under most condtions.

The uppers would be connected w/ some sort of flexible joint... I'd probably use a heim... IDK.. mountainrams truck flexed damn good w/ them.. but we'll see thats still a while.

MIke.

It doesn't matter what joint is used on the uppers, unless the length of the upper can change. In other words, poly or rubber bushings will allow more flex then then heims or TREs. The other thing the ford crowd does is sleeves the axle so the housing can rotate.

You can get great travel out of radius arms (since it travels is a nice arc) but not articulation with out the ability to have roatational differences between the two.

If you do go larg arm or radius arm, stout is the name of the game, I would say at least 2" 1/4" wall, maybe heavier...

Ya thats what I was actually thinking.. making that upper link extendable.. I was thinking of doing something like a tube inside a tube... only thing is I'd have to figure out the exactly lenght so they'd be fully compressed when the trucks sitting still.. otherwise over bumpers and stuff they'd cause the caster to change... That way the upper link wouldn't bind up as bad and cut extend and rotate how it wanted to..

MIke.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=144333&stc=1&d=1093322072

There the style I want to use.. and then I can use the stock mounts instead of the SJ relocation brackets..

Wouldn't making that upper link a lot longer allow for less binding since it would be at a smaller angle?

MIke.

10-4 -- Thats how my buddy's was. We had a clamp on the tube so we could lock out the extension for faster driving.... The rear sucked like that but the front was ok. Then the clamp seized so it was locked all the time and we pulled that link...

Its a tad scarey now :D The front unloads while climbing (we winch it down) and on down hills, under braking the axle wants to tuck under...

Fun to watch (if you find the Superlift snow run they did in Co in 2006, you can see it in action nearly going ass over teakettle on Spring Creek).

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=144333&stc=1&d=1093322072

There the style I want to use.. and then I can use the stock mounts instead of the SJ relocation brackets..

Wouldn't making that upper link a lot longer allow for less binding since it would be at a smaller angle?

MIke.


Angle on the upper link only impacts the direction of the loading. The longer it is the less likely it is to fold the radius arm, but thats about it...

Hmm.. that whole idea of the clamp would be cool or using a pin but I don't want to get into sometihng that fancy for a truck that has to be road dependable since I gotta drive to the trials..

I gotta look into this more... I wouldn't mind having a 4 link setup... just have to figure out frame mounts cuase I don't want to have to butcher up my rock rails to fit a DC style bracket on the side.. Maybe I can pull off some sort of bracket that has one sit under the frame rail and one on the inside of the frame rail... Its kinda hard to picture this, I'm at school and the trucks back at home..

MIke.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=144333&stc=1&d=1093322072

There the style I want to use.


/me waves at my old front axle

You do realize that I did not run with that setup, right? I'm running a shock absorber as the passenger upper, it works as sway control. With all hiems like that and fixed links I broke the tacks when I tries to flex that. If you have rubber bushings then you could run both uppers on the street and pull 1 for the trail but you be putting a lot of stress on everything that I am not with my free floating non-binding setup.

With my arms at about a 15-20* down angle to the axle my antidive feels fantastic and I don't have any unloading issues when climbing -- probably entirely attributable to my wheelbase...

So you are running that shock in place of that upper?? Does it hold/work good? Also how about when your on the street driving.. doesn't the caster change cuase the upper moves?

MIke.

caster changes through suspension travel in a fixed relation to the vertical travel of the driver's side since that's where the fixed arms are. on the street I don't see a lot of travel, why do I need to care about my caster aside from near static height?

I wish my track bar was more level, it would help my roll center for left turns. that's my only complaint about street driving.

thinking about it I may have overestimated my arm angles. I can't think of a picture of my truck at static height from the side though.

The shock is a good idea, and a longer wheelbase certainly helps...

I was thinking caster would change cause I was thinking make both links collapse/extenable.. so I imagined the axle rolling back or foward during accel/braking.

Would something like this work.

Take two pieces of tubing and sleeve on in the other so it could extend and collaspe? Would that be a similar setup to your shock just more durable... or does that shock really not see any sort of force on it(other than in out) cause all the force is transfered to the other link?

MIke.

Don't do both links. If you hit the brakes the axle will torque over and tear everythign apart.

Doing one like what you are suggesting is ok, however I think the shock providing some damping would limit axle wrap and sway/diving.

I was thinking caster would change cause I was thinking make both links collapse/extenable.. so I imagined the axle rolling back or foward during accel/braking.

Would something like this work.

no not even close. there is a track bar placing the axle laterally, if both top links are not a fixed length why even include them? think what would happen if you had no top links at all :homer:

no not even close. there is a track bar placing the axle laterally, if both top links are not a fixed length why even include them? think what would happen if you had no top links at all :homer:

lol you quoted me wrong...

the "what something like this work" was for the part below what I said...

but now I understand.. at first I though you'd have to make both links moveable.. and thats why I got confused cuase that would sound like the axle would twist around the lower links every time you moved...

But ya thanks everyone for the explanation... guess this would be the best way to design radius arms(since radius arms would be easier to do than 4 link) and this would make them work properly.

MIke.

You know.. I'm still not sure about all this.. I went to my bud's house for a lil.. Hes got the radius arm long arm setup on his XJ... I know for a fact his stuff flexes good but it doesn't have any sort of adjustment/movement like you guys are talking about.

Is this because on an XJ front axle.. the upper mounts are offset by a good ammount (one is on the pumpkin and one over where the CAD would be.) So because of this offset would it make the binding not as extreme?

As far as updates... tomorrow or tuesday I'm going to get the tires on... gotta first trim out the fenders to fit them. Today I aligned the front axle(trackbar) since it was off and then it rained so I stopped working(that and I woke up at 3pm lol)

MIke.

Well I haven't been on this thread in a while.. but I got the truck finished up... yesterday I finally cut the front fenders so it won't rub under flex.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/5/13417262670.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/5/13417262775.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/5/13417262853.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/5/13417262725.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/5/13417262792.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/5/13417262890.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/main/5/13417262727.jpg

Goin to the Badlands in Attica, IN this weekend for a test drive before Moab.

Speedo is still out but I got started on wiring the dakota digital box... I got the signal wire and hot/ground but I don't want to tap into the trans until after this trip cause i don't want ot mess something up and not go to the badlands cuase of it...

MIke.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/mikeg1005/P1010250.jpg?t=1211694421

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/mikeg1005/P1010264.jpg?t=1211694581

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/mikeg1005/P1010266.jpg?t=1211694633

Test ride went good.. busted a trans mount... but that was an easy fix and I still made it home...

MIke.

looks good, mike!! i always like the way those rock sliders look on that thing! Nicely done!

I'm still looking forward to find out how your fixing your speed sensor

Funny I never saw this thread...

Not to bring up an older subject in this thread, but my radius arm setup does work pretty good. I have johnny joints at the frame and lower axle with the upper using a poly bushing. The two links are connected with a heim. My thougts were that I have seen alot of XJs and TJs with a similar setup and they worked well. My arms are 50" long 1.5" .5" wall (I had the material laying around). They have taken a beating and are a little banana shped now. I will probably straighten them and add something to the bottom- possibly simple .25 angle iron. Anyway- my truck flexes pretty good- I have seen much better, but it's a simple, sturdy design and I don't think I need any more flex right now- The springs fall out as it is. It drives on road pretty well too- with the exception of death wobble due to eternally bent tie rods...

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Mountain_Ram/b5130fb3.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Mountain_Ram/flexA.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Mountain_Ram/flex4.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Mountain_Ram/LongArms.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Mountain_Ram/MVC-060F.jpg

Before you ask- I did get rid of that useful, but gay grillguard...

Sorry to hijack the thread Mike!

You gonna make it to Fawl Crawl? Maybe you can make it more than 15 feet into the lower rock garden without busting a front shaft!!

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Mountain_Ram/32217072667.jpg

I'm still looking forward to find out how your fixing your speed sensor

I bet you are :flipoff2:

small world, eh....

so where's your build thread anyway?

search on pavement sucks. somone machined a tone ring for a 14 bolt... or if you find a new as in 02 or later 14 bolt it might have one and all you would have to do is make the speed sensor and the pcm comunicate

Ya I'm pretty sure Ill be at harlan.. I really want to thats for sure.


About the speedo...

Used a dakota digital box... took the two wires off the side of the trans(trans speed sensor) put those as imput and imput ground on the box.. then went under the hood, went to the PCM... middle white connector.. found the VSS wire... white w/ orange tracer... thats the speed wire that goes from the ABS.. so I cut into that and ran that to the dakota digital box as the output.. If you go on pavementsucks.com I did a lil write up about it.. just search festivus mircale dakota digital box...

MIke.

What tcase are you running that it had a speed sensor in it?

The 94-97 dodges had the speed sensors in the t-case.. NP231's... the new ones.. have them in the tone sensor on the rear diff.... I don't have the t-case sensor.

MIke.

I am ignorant but what is dodge dakota box? Is it a plug in module like a hypertech?

About the speedo...

Used a dakota digital box...

I am ignorant but what is dodge dakota box? Is it a plug in module like a hypertech?

Last I checked a Dodge Dakota box was the thing that sits on my frame rails behind the cab

:homer:

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=126/category_id=287/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd126.htm (justfuckinggoogleit.com)
























sorry, in a bad mood this morning. copy/paste, it's the real link in text

Thanks. :homer:

Believe it or not I did google and search on the site, Kept finding dakota cameras, boxes, beds, tool boxes, etc. even specified to 4x4 and still came up with dakota model truck shit.:mad3: