just saw this on ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1841294891

It seems like a lot of people are selling their buggies on there. Are these things selling? I would guess there isn't a huge market for something like that. Just wondering....

http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_ca9cf34bcd038cbf1a4a6fda71514591/i-3.JPG

$29K opening bid!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

It's a sweet little rig. Ian is one sharp fabricator.
Jay

offroadr35 you PM box is full and e-mail won't work

0 bids after five days does that answer your question? Maybe he should've great little commuter on his description:rolleyes:

Originally posted by MOVEASIDE
0 bids after five days does that answer your question? Maybe he should've great little commuter on his description:rolleyes:


YOU SIR, ARE A DUMB ASS!! :rolleyes:

thats a steal!!
eric

Eric it's only a steal if people are willing/ able to spend that kind of money for it. I know from friends that built hot rod cars you're gonna spend alot more building one than you can sell it for. The nature of building cars. If you pay someone else to do most the work for you, you'll never get your money back selling it. And just cause one person does, most don't.

I agree w/ 70 K5. That thing is way over priced for the average guy. I built my Single seater, rear steer for under 20K(it will be at the super crawl). I would be lucky to sell it for 20K. Heck I have that much in parts. I believe Walker's rig is going for 40K. with all that engineering!. Just my .2 cents. Run dog

What a steal...:rolleyes:

I personally would never pay that kind of money for a USED vehicle. Brand new, yes, but used? Give me a break..... :rolleyes:

Well i spent just shy of $1000 to build my tubed buggy. So $20,000 seams kind of expensive to me.

I imagine that not counting labor, he has $25000 + into it. I know that the one Jason Paule built has over that in parts. That isn't including any labor. I just wish I had that kind of money to do stuff.

Erin

Originally posted by snoman
Well i spent just shy of $1000 to build my tubed buggy. So $20,000 seams kind of expensive to me.

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one! Maybe 1K if you had all the major componenets (engine, axles, drivelines, tcase, seats, etc...) lying around and all you had to buy was misc parts and tube.

70 K5 said it best... The price of somehting's worth is only as much as the market will bear. The market for somehting like this is SOOOO DAMN small to begin with. Plus you have a small purchase area cause most poeple dont want to drive cross country to pick it up. Add a price that most people cant afford to pay for a FAMILY car much less a play toy and your market is about.... NOTHING.

I wouldnt pay hardly shit for it. Not because I think it sucks (it is kinda fugly to me) but because I know I could build it, or BUY it cheaper (once the guy realizes it is overpriced).

Originally posted by FatCity



YOU SIR, ARE A DUMB ASS!! :rolleyes:

thats a steal!!
eric YOU SIR ARE A BUTTDART! If its such a steal I guess we'll seeyou cruising your buggy soon.:flipoff2: :laughing:

Originally posted by MOVEASIDE
YOU SIR ARE A BUTTDART! If its such a steal I guess we'll seeyou cruising your buggy soon.:flipoff2: :laughing:

You'll get a chance to see one Eric built when they do the article/ videos of J.R. winning TTC with it. Or maybe you could do a serach on here for Fat City Bronco for a glimpse. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by willymutt
I imagine that not counting labor, he has $25000 + into it. I know that the one Jason Paule built has over that in parts. That isn't including any labor. I just wish I had that kind of money to do stuff.

Erin

Holly Fawk!! What's he got on it??

So I am coming back to this thread, trying to figure out if I am a DUMB ASS, or if a $29,000 opening bid is a bit much for a well used rig. Don't get me wrong, I think Ian is a great builder, and has a nice rig, but is it really worth that much, and WHY is it worth that much? I don't see anymore than 20k in BRAND NEW PARTS in this rig, so that leaves 9k for the chassis. And this rig is USED. Someone please enlighten me here.

Funny thing is, someone WILL buy it. :smokin:

It's bright yellow. That add's power son. Slap on a fart can and a spoiler, he could easily ask 35.

That's pronounced " Doo-Mas":flipoff2:

I think I'm what you call a gheto wheeler, cause I don't have shiat into my rig.

Originally posted by Lance
So I am coming back to this thread, trying to figure out if I am a DUMB ASS, or if a $29,000 opening bid is a bit much for a well used rig. Don't get me wrong, I think Ian is a great builder, and has a nice rig, but is it really worth that much, and WHY is it worth that much? I don't see anymore than 20k in BRAND NEW PARTS in this rig, so that leaves 9k for the chassis. And this rig is USED. Someone please enlighten me here.

Funny thing is, someone WILL buy it. :smokin:

I will enlighten you,

A rough estimate on a standard, rectangular tube chassis, full bodied, nothing special buggy, is going to run you close to or above 20k in labor alone. The vehicle in question is nothing like that. This thing is 100% custom from the chassis to the go pedal, using nothing but the best parts. Built by an experienced fabricator/designer, not just some bozo in his garage with a stick machine or some half assed 210 buzz box, a torch, and alot of shit pipe sitting around.

I understand alot of you getto wheelers don't have the kind of money to go out and buy a well built vehicle like the one in question, but there are people out there that are willing to spend the money on somthing built correctly, that works correctly.

So to answer your question lance,
In my own opinion, you are a dumbass if you think 29k is to high for a well built vehicle that works.

yours truly,
eric filar

Originally posted by FatCity


I will enlighten you,

A rough estimate on a standard, rectangular tube chassis, full bodied, nothing special buggy, is going to run you close to or above 20k in labor alone. The vehicle in question is nothing like that. This thing is 100% custom from the chassis to the go pedal, using nothing but the best parts. Built by an experienced fabricator/designer, not just some bozo in his garage with a stick machine or some half assed 210 buzz box, a torch, and alot of shit pipe sitting around.

I understand alot of you getto wheelers don't have the kind of money to go out and buy a well built vehicle like the one in question, but there are people out there that are willing to spend the money on somthing built correctly, that works correctly.

So to answer your question lance,
In my own opinion, you are a dumbass if you think 29k is to high for a well built vehicle that works.

yours truly,
eric filar

LOL Whatever dude. :rolleyes:
A typical chassis from a typical well known outfit like Avalanche, Campbell, Shaffer, etc. is $4000. That's for a brand fawking new chassis. Not one that has been run hard for two years flipping over backwards, etc. You think that chasis is perfectly straight? I have a bridge to sell you, if you do....

Just because you find people to pay your overinflated prices doesn't mean it's worth it to some of us "dumbasses". And if it's such a steal, how come nobody has snatched it up for the bargain price of 30k?

i bet he wouldnt get any offers over 20k it is a used buggy after all

not to piss in anybodys wheaties but we sell just a chasie for $14,000.00 to$20,000 there is a lot of work in these things if you do the job correct avalanch chasie $4,000.00 that is a kit no noching un welded and i heard they quit becaus peaple where assing them up.i am not saying the rig you are talking about is worth $29,000.00 but im also not saying it isnt.:p

lol...


I can have a team of NASA engineers design - from the ground up - a water holding recepticle, with timed valving and flow release, designed for anti-flowback of both liquid and gas. This custom designed, tested, and built unit could cost well in excess of $100,000 and would literally work "perfect" in ever respect of both design and function.


Or...


I could go down to Home Depot and buy a $49 toilet that does the same thing.



Spending $100,000 on a toilet doesn't necessarily make it flush your shit any better ;)

Originally posted by DRM
lol...


I can have a team of NASA engineers design - from the ground up - a water holding recepticle, with timed valving and flow release, designed for anti-flowback of both liquid and gas. This custom designed, tested, and built unit could cost well in excess of $100,000 and would literally work "perfect" in ever respect of both design and function.


Or...


I could go down to Home Depot and buy a $49 toilet that does the same thing.



Spending $100,000 on a toilet doesn't necessarily make it flush your shit any better ;) with 17172 posts you realy no about some shit.

Originally posted by frankie fountain
with 17172 posts you realy no about some shit.

Maybe I do... like when someone tries to tell me that these high $$$ rigs are somehow inherrantly "better" than what the common man can put together on a normal budget on his own.


Not saying these expensive rigs are not pieces of art, well engineered, sharp looking, etc.... because many of them are SUPER NICE.

But come on down to reality here - this is about wheeling, and last time I checked, how much $$$ you have in a rig doesn't mean SQUAT when it comes to getting further down the trail.

But yeah, bagging on my post count does a lot to reinforce your opinion on this subject, right? :shaking:

wow, I pitty those who have to pay to have their rigs built. I'm building a tube chassised 4-link coil over rig and will probably end up a 3rd of that price. Yeah it may take me longer but damn 29,000 for a used rig!

the waste separator will cost 2.5 million (not $100,000. )on the future nasa space flight programs starting in aug,2003 they will have on board vacum recovery storage and return the wast into emergency drinking fluids with a wast separator and the fluids will also be used for the cooling tower on the oxygyne scrubers.:flipoff2:

fat city that is one bad muthaf-cka you built.my hat if off to you that bronc is cool ..... i think if you compair the machine to many so calld worthy machines peapleare building you will see the price is worht it.but if you cant aford it im sorry :( so what sombody can aford it dont be mad its there mony.:D

Originally posted by frankie fountain
i think if you compair the machine to many so calld worthy machines peapleare building you will see the price is worht it.

I think here is where it all comes down to a point.

My momma always told me (no really, she did) that something is only worth as much as someone is willing to give for it.

So what we have here is a bunch of different people applying THEIR OWN standards as to what THEY *feel* is the worth of something.

So if Fat City says he see's the rig as worth that much TO HIM - well then he is correct.
And if I say it ain't worth a quarter of that price TO ME - then guess what - I am right too ;)

And we can all sit around and make fun of those who disagree with us, right? :p

Originally posted by DRM


I think here is where it all comes down to a point.

My momma always told me (no really, she did) that something is only worth as much as someone is willing to give for it.

So what we have here is a bunch of different people applying THEIR OWN standards as to what THEY *feel* is the worth of something.

So if Fat City says he see's the rig as worth that much TO HIM - well then he is correct.
And if I say it ain't worth a quarter of that price TO ME - then guess what - I am right too ;)

And we can all sit around and make fun of those who disagree with us, right? :p what ever i'm outa hear because some peaple can aford to pay me to build chasies so i gota go to work see ya nasa boy
FAT CITY YOU GO BOY BUILD SOME MORE BAD ASS RIGS I LOVE EM

of course its worth 29k, or even more to a guy that wants to play and cant or wont build his own, time is money i suppose, thats why i can build a competent tube buggy for under 7k for my own pleasure, but if i sold it to someone i would have to get something for my sweat and efforts so of course the price would go up. some ppls time is worth more than others, and some ppl are willing to pay for it. i dont think the price of ones toys reflect how well his skills as a builder are however, i have seen alot of home grown rigs spank the high dollar toys.

When the house down the street sold for more than I thought it was worth, I was glad. Now mine is worth more.
If the yellowjacket sells for 29k, I'll also be happy.

Originally posted by Lance


LOL Whatever dude. :rolleyes:
A typical chassis from a typical well known outfit like Avalanche, Campbell, Shaffer, etc. is $4000. That's for a brand fawking new chassis. Not one that has been run hard for two years flipping over backwards, etc

Thats a bare chassis lance, now all you need is motor mounts,suspension mounts,steering mounts,feul tank mounts,seat mounts,battery mounts,floor panels,guage panels,skid plates,ect...

once you're done paying someone to do those things, you finally have a chassis that needs parts... axles, tires, wheels, motor, tranny, x-case, seats, battery, steer componants, brakeing system, fuel tank, fuel injection system (if you choose), shifter, steering wheel, brake lights, head lights, gauges, switches, lots of wire, misc. hoses, drive shafts, radiator, winch, seat belts, lockers, shocks, springs, rod-ends, mufflers and the rest of the exhaust, paint or powder, and a hole load of shit that dose'nt come to mind at this time.

So now after your $4000 chassis and buying the rest of that stuff I'm sure you're only up to 5-6k total for a turn key...I might as well close the doors and sublet to you guys.

eric filar

Originally posted by FatCity


Thats a bare chassis lance, now all you need is motor mounts,suspension mounts,steering mounts,feul tank mounts,seat mounts,battery mounts,floor panels,guage panels,skid plates,ect...

once you're done paying someone to do those things, you finally have a chassis that needs parts... axles, tires, wheels, motor, tranny, x-case, seats, battery, steer componants, brakeing system, fuel tank, fuel injection system (if you choose), shifter, steering wheel, brake lights, head lights, gauges, switches, lots of wire, misc. hoses, drive shafts, radiator, winch, seat belts, lockers, shocks, springs, rod-ends, mufflers and the rest of the exhaust, paint or powder, and a hole load of shit that dose'nt come to mind at this time.

So now after your $4000 chassis and buying the rest of that stuff I'm sure you're only up to 5-6k total for a turn key...I might as well close the doors and sublet to you guys.

eric filar

Ok, let's go:
Chassis: $4000
All additional mounts mentioned at exorbant Fat City rate: $3000
Dana 44's: $4000
Tires Goodyear 37" MTR: $800
Champion beadlocks: $1000
Motor 4.3l used: $1500
Tranny: $1000
Tcase: $2000
Steering full hydro: $700
Brake MC/Clutch Willwood: $400
Fuel Cell: $150
Shifters: $200
Steering wheel: $100
Headlights: $100
gauges: $200
switches: $100
wire: $100
wire harness: $400
hoses: $80
driveshafts: $600
radiator: $300
winch: $850
seat belts: $100
coil over shocks: $1600
rod ends: $650
exhaust: $500
powder coat: $500
Seats: $600
fuel pump: $200
Body panels: $400
Misc crap: $1000
And how about some time to bolt it all together? = $6000


So that's about 33k for a brand new hooptie. How is a very used ride soooooo much better for 30k?

Listen dude, I am not saying that 30k is too much for a rig. I'm not even saying 40-50k is too much for a new rig. I am just saying I think it's too much for a USED rig. You're entitled to your (wrong :flipoff2: ) opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. :p

A lot of good points are being made. I dont think that these two were brought up yet:

Most people would agree that a used anything is not worth as much as a new one. However, when it comes to a buggy custom built for performance, the used one may actually be better than the new one if all the bugs were worked out during its use.

A good point was made that this buggy had been "run hard" for two years, but I heard that John Gilleland sold his rock buggy CJ7 for $30K...right after rolling it in Las Cruces.

i think selling something like that is all a matter of luck. There are probably no more than 20 people in the country that would be interested in paying that much for a used rock buggy, so if one of them happens to see it then it'll get sold. For every bit they lower the price they will gain a wider market. IMHO it would have to get below 20 to really hit a decently large market.

Is it worth 29k? i remember a flatfender in the FOR SALE section here with ARB'd 60/70s, bilstein coilovers up front and quarter ellip in the rear, etc. I believe the username was BRIAN that was selling it. He was only asking about 13k and still couldn't sell it. Right now JAKE has a sammi buggy that's been up for sale for a long time in the 20s and he hasn't gotten much interest at all. There's no real answer to this question but barring an amazing stroke of luck i doubt we'll see many buggies sell in the 30k range.

-Steve

hey lance, whaddya say you edit your last post to include as many P&P parts as possible.....be creative ehre like 3/4 ton 8 lug 44 front AND 14 bolt rear for $125........$15 for new seals.....

Originally posted by marilyn

A good point was made that this buggy had been "run hard" for two years, but I heard that John Gilleland sold his rock buggy CJ7 for $30K...right after rolling it in Las Cruces.

marylin, John sold his rig for 15k minus motor, tranny, tcase. :)

Here you go . It from All Pro.

Rock Crawler Chassis


This completely welded chassis is designed as a starting point for an ultra light trail rig. Frame and cage made from DOM tubing. Frame rails are 2" tubing, cage is 1.5" tubing. Includes mounts for 4 link front and rear suspension. Frame as pictured weighs 350 lbs. Price Reduced, now only $1,995



http://www.allprooffroad.com/8398.jpg

I should have looked alittle more before I made my last post.



Rock Buggy, all or part:
Finished Chassis with 4 link suspension links front & rear. Includes Toyota rear housing, Wilwood master cylinder and completed peddle assemblies, seat mounts, engine mounts. $5000.

4.3 L Vortec 205 HP motor and 4L60E auto tranny w/new Atlas transfer case w/3.0 gears and heavy duty output shaft. Motor/tranny came from a 2000 4WD Jimmy with only 18K miles. $3,750

Double ended Howe hydro steering ram $450

Spool valve for ram $300

Front D60/Toyota axle with spring perches removed setup for use with Howe double ended ram $4,000.

All of the above, package price $12,000

http://www.allprooffroad.com/0628s.jpg

Originally posted by flimmy
Double ended Howe hydro steering ram $450


I sell double ended steering cylinders with, QA1 endura rod ends for more than $100 less than that.

Originally posted by flimmy
Front D60/Toyota axle with spring perches removed setup for use with Howe double ended ram $4,000.


Holy Goodness!!! That is allot of money! I am buying both of my steering Mog axles with pinion conversion, and shipping to my house for less than that. Plus my axles have probably about 5" more differential clearance, have 3+" stub shafts, have deep water fording option(small ammount of air pressure is run to differential, and hubs which escapes slowly through axle seals, which keeps water, sand, or any other debris than could make its way past the seals out), they have selectable air lockers, and double cardan steering joints. They also are plenty stong enough to survive behind the 400 hp , 550 ft#'s torque@~120:1, and 53" Michelins that I will be running.
You people have got to get more creative I am getting tired of seeing everybody running the same thing on the trail, and the majority of those people payed WAY too much for what they got.

Sean

Sean, I would never buy this rig I was just posting an example of what you can buy for less than the 30k they were talking about. You say you sell hydro rams, do you have any 1.5" rams for hydro assist ? I have a Toyota that I'm going to do hydro assist on and I'm looking at rams now.

Originally posted by flimmy
Sean, I would never buy this rig I was just posting an example of what you can buy for less than the 30k they were talking about. You say you sell hydro rams, do you have any 1.5" rams for hydro assist ? I have a Toyota that I'm going to do hydro assist on and I'm looking at rams now.

I'm working on a 1.5" bore ram for all of the hydro assist guys now. I should have prices on them by the end of the week.

Sean

Apples to apples these tube cadges you are showing are compleatly diffrent than the fat city bronc and my machines but may be cloes to the rig that started all this i realy dont know? .
the machines we build takes about 6 months hard work to build just the chasie they are vehicals not buggies .
At takes as much time to build the floor board and fire wall as it does to make the frame it is made of 1/8 tread plate these are trail machines with 44'' tires we are trying to put the machines at about 4,500 to 5,000 lbs. for ground preasur its muddy around these parts .this is what i am defending not the rig on ebay.
At $15,000 to $20,000 we are not getting rich on these frames.but feeding our families.

Can we get some pictures of some of these frames that you have made Frankie? The Frankie Fountain competition-mobile is not the kind of frame that you are describing , right?

Sean

yes that is one it was my first. the machine we build now are more sexy they have more flow i have no pics hey tv guy you or dan got pics of the asm chasie in productin now.the machine at the erocc is a trail machine but we went anyway.and we are going back.

sean thats a smokin deal on that cyl.send me one i busted my cyl.at erocc thats the best price i heard of and i shop around.hurry up erocc 1 month :D

Originally posted by Lance
[B]

exorbant Fat City rate:


exorbant is a little harsh, I like to think I'm way to fair but, I guess you get what you pay for.


[/i]
So that's about 33k for a brand new hooptie. How is a very used ride soooooo much better for 30k?

Listen dude, I am not saying that 30k is too much for a rig. I'm not even saying 40-50k is too much for a new rig. I am just saying I think it's too much for a USED rig. You're entitled to your (wrong :flipoff2: ) opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. :p [/QUOTE]

I agree to disagree,

Eric (exorbant rate) Filar

Originally posted by Lance


exorbant Fat City rate:

Listen dude, I am not saying that 30k is too much for a rig. I'm not even saying 40-50k is too much for a new rig. I am just saying I think it's too much for a USED rig. You're entitled to your (wrong :flipoff2: ) opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. :p

exorbant is a little harsh, I like to think I'm way to fair, but, I guess you get what you pay for.


I agree to disagree.

Eric (exorbant rate) Filar

don't know why some people are so offended by Ian's asking price. who knows what a used competition is worth, the sport is too new. but hey all the more power to him if he can get it.
I don't know Ian, but know that he is just doing business. If he sells his rig for 30k, it's good for all of us.

I'm impressed by those that can build stuff cheap, on paper. Wish I could. Don't sell yourselves short by undermining the value of your hard work and talents though.

Originally posted by Station


I sell double ended steering cylinders with, QA1 endura rod ends for more than $100 less than that.



Holy Goodness!!! That is allot of money! I am buying both of my steering Mog axles with pinion conversion, and shipping to my house for less than that. Plus my axles have probably about 5" more differential clearance, have 3+" stub shafts, have deep water fording option(small ammount of air pressure is run to differential, and hubs which escapes slowly through axle seals, which keeps water, sand, or any other debris than could make its way past the seals out), they have selectable air lockers, and double cardan steering joints. They also are plenty stong enough to survive behind the 400 hp , 550 ft#'s torque@~120:1, and 53" Michelins that I will be running.
You people have got to get more creative I am getting tired of seeing everybody running the same thing on the trail, and the majority of those people payed WAY too much for what they got.

Sean


Talk is cheap. Show us some pics or shut your pie hole.

Originally posted by JR
who knows what a used competition is worth,

We don't, and that's why we are arguing ;)

Another example of completed rigs for sale, Jon Bundrant just announced today his 87 4Runner is for sale, $24,000. Seems like complete rigs are fetching a pretty penny.

http://www.allprooffroad.com/0451s.jpg

well i'm thinking about putting my reaper on ebay so you all know what she has and yes i'm talking repaird so lets have it how much is it worth .or what shoud i set my reserve at.:eek:

In my view, the point of this thread is being missed.

I'm proud of you guys who can go to the junk yard to get all the components so that you and your buddy, over the weekend, can build a world class competition machine. But when it's all done and you wanted to sell it, wouldn't you want to get as much for your MasterCrawler as the market would bear? It's just business, right?

Originally posted by JR
In my view, the point of this thread is being missed.

I'm proud of you guys who can go to the junk yard to get all the components so that you and your buddy, over the weekend, can build a world class competition machine. But when it's all done and you wanted to sell it, wouldn't you want to get as much for your MasterCrawler as the market would bear? It's just business, right?
That is just it, alot of the workmanship I have seen is junk.
All good things take time. And if its not Your time, it will be Your money. I think most of the guys that think this is alot of money have not sat down with a calculator and paper and made a list of what it takes to build a chassis, not everybody has THAT buddy that can get everything at cost and lives next door. Bending tubing is a talent (I know, I cannot do it) Some of us have to pay for that help. As for as I care I can spend my money however I want, as you will do the same. I HAVE SEEN SOME CRAZY SHIT SELL ON E-BAY , can you really blame the guy for trying?

I agree with JR. More power to the guy if he sells it for that much. It's better for the entire off-road community. That makes the value of all rigs go up. That puts guys in trail worthy 4x4's that don't know how to build them, but have the money to buy them. (If I had the money, I know I wouldn't be driving a Samurai.) It also brings in a different group of people to off-road vendors, manufacturers, and clubs. IT BRINGS MONEY TO CLUBS THAT SUPPORT ALL OF OUR INTERESTS.

So, don't be down on a brother for trying to make as much $$ as possible, help him. If you know how to fabricate and properly set up a rig, then it'll make your time spent in the garage more valuable. There are so many people out there with a lot of money, without the skills required to make a good trail rig. There is a market out there, and it is growing.

I have a question - how am I supposed to get $29k in cash to pay for that? Sell something else? Home equity? If I went to my bank and asked for a $30k loan, they'd slaughter me and hang me over the front door as a lesson to the others.

I'm just thinking the people who have money like that, and need/want a rig, are probably not so common.

Bryan

Originally posted by Oxjockey

I'm just thinking the people who have money like that, and need/want a rig, are probably not so common.

Bryan
Exactly!!!! Not only that you have another toy you cannot daily drive. Most of us are having to make some kind of financial
compromise. HOW BAD DO YOU WANT TO SPANK ASS??????