How bad are lockers in snow? I'm not talking off road. I need to know if I can live with lockers during winter in my daily driver FJ40. I want to go with a 350 buck locker, or just lincoln lock, but I don't want to live with an accident prone monster all winter. Do I have to go air or electric locker in order to shoot a straight line in snow? Does driving style effect tracking, or does the locker have a mind of its own? I will probably end up putting an arb up front, but I would like to save money on the rear if possible.
Winters here can be long or short with little or a lot of snow, Rapid City, SD.

Thanks for the insight, Caleb

Can't say from experience, as for lockers i dont know how bad it really gets but i DO know that welded rears like to get squirley in the snow and ice.

Matt

I just received word that I am going to be moving to Ellsworth AFB just outside of Rapid City at the begining of the year!

can't wait to hook up with some cruiser heads out there

Donald:usa: :beer:

I have a bit of experience driving locked short wheelbase rigs in the snow. It is scary. I've learned to accept it, but it is not something you'd want to deal with in a daily driver. Often if you downshift or just lay of the gas, the rear will want to come around on you. Also, you must get used to going sideways from a stop instead of forwards. Sharp corners are also interesting. If it is your DD in the winter, I'd recommend a selectable locker. If you're only going to be driving it occasionally in the ice, go for a full locker.

I appreciate the input, pretty much what I figured. Does OX have an electric locker for LCs yet? How does the price compare to ARBs?

Donald- you'll enjoy it here. An active cruiser club, a great LC shop, and the black hills and the badlands to wheel in.


Caleb

Lockers are spooky on ice! :eek:

As already mentioned, if you are sitting on a slight off camber on ice, and go to take off... you start sliding DOWN the camber before going forward. I prefer OPEN difs on ice as the "stationary wheel" will keep you from sliding, while the one with traction will help you in forward movement.

With your '78 FJ40, the emergency brake is on the center drum... not much help in snow. On the '81 and later FJ40's & all FJ60's the e-brake will operate on the rear wheels. With my FJ60 (open rear end) in snow, I would use the handbrake to help prevent spinning... soft pull up, and the spinning wheel would slow down, sending more torque to the other side. Just one of those "tricks" that is easy to learn, hard to describe. Big open sloped parking lots are good places to practice!

Hmm... actually since your are in South Dakota, you should get lots of snow practice! Of course you already know NOT to set a hand brake in freezing weather... just park it in gear and leave the brake off.

I'd look at the ARB units. For a pure street vehicle, a LSD would be fine... but wouldn't use it for off roading as you never are going fast enough to use a LSD over rocks, or slow crawling.

Tom

Ok I am in this debate as well. spools are so cheap and ARB's are so expensive, could i drive on a highway at some speed in the snow and ice with a spool and be able to make a corner or am i going keep going straight, If i had the $$$ i would go ARB.

Originally posted by calileo
I appreciate the input, pretty much what I figured. Does OX have an electric locker for LCs yet? How does the price compare to ARBs?
Caleb

About the Ox-I have heard on the PBB that it will be 2 years.
Buddy of mine contacted OX last month and was told LC locker would be available in about a year.

Originally posted by pitter
Ok I am in this debate as well. spools are so cheap and ARB's are so expensive, could i drive on a highway at some speed in the snow and ice with a spool and be able to make a corner or am i going keep going straight, If i had the $$$ i would go ARB.

Spools aren't an option, at least for US based Cruisers. As far as I know, there is no spool for the c-clip rear our Cruisers have. Maybe there is one for the FF axles, I don't know.

Turning on ice with a spool or welded rear is tough, usually both tires break loose and you can slide quite a long ways. An auto locker, like a Detroit, will usually allow enough differentiation at speed to prevent much sliding. Pulling away from a stop on ice with an auto locker is just like being spooled, you will slide as the unit locks up on the loose traction surface.

For snow and ice, I feel the best setups are, in order of "goodness":

ARB/selectable locker it's locked when needed, and open when needed

Open or LSD Sometimes the LSD can screw you like a locker, but sometimes it can help.

Autolockers allow a little differentiation, but not a lot, stops are still "fun"

Spool/Welded ugly on ice, and extra scary in a short wheelbase

I have an auburn in the front, don't even know it is there most of the time, but it is really nice in the woods, no banging, no real turning problems, and I got it cheap on ebay. If I was to buy a NEW locker (non ebay or whatever) I think I would cough up the extra 150 bucks or so and get the ARB.
I have a friend with the auburn in the front, and he drives his daily with studded 34x9,5's in the winter. Never any problems.
His driveway can be a challenge, too.
The LSD works great on ice and snow.

I've driven for the past 5+ years with a True Trac LS in the rear of my 95 Toy pickup and have done the welded rear in my Cruiser for the past couple. IMO, they are both great.

IMO, the limited slips and lockers and weldeds will all react very similarly on snow and ice. Lockers will override their dog teeth while in a coast state....however, when I drove my Cruiser with the EZ-Lock on dry pavement, I almost always had enuf power into the rear axle to prevent them from overriding. (One of the reasons I said screw it and just with welded spiders) With the very limited resistance that snow/ice provide, a locker pretty much stays locked. Same with a limited slip...the torque bias required to get any slip just isnt there. Any time I put ANY power into my True Trac, it powers both equally when on snow/ice.

IMO, it's very predictable. I know in icy situation exactly how to react since I know what the rear end will do. With an open diff, you don't know which side is on ice and which is not (or if both sides are) Apply power with an open diff, and you may get one, the other, or both slipping. Apply power with a LS or locker, and you get both.

Now try accellerating with one tire on ice and the other on dry pavement. Open diff, you pretty much sit there. LS or Locker, you go as if you were sitting on dry pavement. ARB or OX or whatever, you need to stop and/or equalize the axle speeds, hit your button, hope it's not iced up, then go.

It takes enuf thought to stay on the road sometimes....much less thinking about whether or not I should be engaging the locker.

Given all that, I haven't locked the hubs on my pickup for winter driving in the past 5 years. Prior to having the LS installed, I keep them locked since the shift on the fly woudl then work and I'd need that in intersections and other times to get moving. Having the LS installed changed that totally.

I have a lockrite unit in my 69 FJ40. I lived in Alaska for quite a while as well as Rapid City, SD due to the military and got use to driving it on the snow and ice. Like previously stated the rear end likes to come around you when accelerating and stopping. If you put one in just drive it a bit to get use to it and keep in always keep in mind that you have a locker in the axle and you should be fine. The only real complaint that I have with the lockrite is the clicking noise when turning. Anyway good luck with whatever you choose to do. :usa:

Thanks for everyones take on the lockers. I agree, it is probably safer/easier to drive an open diff. on snow/ice. But it is gonna get locked! I am glad to hear that you guys got used to it. As long as it isn't unpredictable, I will be fine. Cool!

Later, Caleb