what the pros and cons of nat gas on your newer trucks? where do you get kits to convert them to natural gas? how much?

do you mean propane LPG? If so a search should yield alot of info.

i was told by a guy i work with that in mexico they make cars that can run off of natural gas. the questar gas company in utah uses it a bit on there trucks.
does anyone have any idea about it?
he said 68 cents a gallon and you feel up in your garage and it is billed to your home ... sounds cool to me

Call Eric at Carb and Turbo Systems. 952-445-3910. Leave a message for him if he's not there. He can tell you all about it.

other than price is it better than 'pane

other than price is it better than 'pane

Not completely sure, but I think it is very similar to 'pane. I believe it is in the same gas family...such as methanes...?


The only thing, is 'pane may be easier to get outside your home if you were in need of a refill.....away from home.

From a quick search:

Natural gas vehicles

A Metrobus using natural gasCompressed natural gas (methane) is used as a cleaner alternative to other automobile fuels such as gasoline (petrol) and diesel. As of 2005, the countries with the largest number of natural gas vehicles were Argentina, Brazil, Pakistan, Italy, Iran, and the USA. [13] The energy efficiency is generally equal to that of gasoline engines, but lower compared with modern diesel engines. Benzine vehicles converted to run on gas suffer of the low-compression ratio their engines have, resulting in a cropping of delivered power while running on natural gas (10%-15%). CNG factory-made engines, however, use a higher compression ratio, due to the high number of octane (120-130) of this fuel.

Liquified petroleum gas (a propane and butane blend) is also used to fuel vehicles. LPG and CNG vehicle fuel systems are not compatible. CNG also requires higher pressure tanks which are typically much heavier than those used for LPG.

?
he said 68 cents a gallon and you feel up in your garage and it is billed to your home ... sounds cool to me

shit i would be willing to go out of my way to save a metric shit ton of money, I am going pane just for the "run at any angle, cheap as hell and easy to setup part" but it cost almost the same as gas at the one place I have seen it advertiesed around here 2.79 this morn and regular 89 gas was 2.89 :barf::mad3::confused:
fukin oil bastids

he said 68 cents a gallon and you feel up in your garage and it is billed to your home ... sounds cool to me

Well, natural gas is not measured by the gallon, but by cubic feet. You will need to find out the fuel consumption ratio to gas or propane to have a valid comparison!

Natural gas is measured in cubic feet, but it is billed in "therms." Natural Gas is not consistent in its energy per cubic foot. The gas company samples the gas at some interval to determine the number of therms per cubic foot you are actually getting. That is what they charge you for. A therm is 100,000 BTU.

Currently in the US a therm of Natural Gas would run you around $1.20-$1.80. That is the national average and that price is also very seasonal. In some parts of the country, the price can drop below $.80/therm in the summer.

Gasoline contains somewhere around 1.33 therms per gallon. $3 gallon of gasoline would be somewhere around $1.995 of natural gas with the natural gas at $1.50 a therm.

The biggest problem with natural gas as a automotive fuel is that it is essentially impossible compress natural gas to a liquid without expensive, complicated cryo refrigeration. That makes it much harder to store lots of energy in a small space. Propane can be compressed to a liquid in a simple steel can and thus lots of energy can be stored in a small area. Gasoline is already a liquid at atmospheric pressure and temperature and thus a large amount of energy can be stored in a small area. Natural gas essentially cannot be compressed to a liquid at normal temperatures. The inability to reasonably store natural gas as a liquid will decrease the vehicle's range. As it is, natural gas vehicles store the fuel at 3,600 psi in large, heavy, expensive tanks.

This may not be much of an issue with the CNG Honda Civic which claims a 200 mile range, but it would be more if an issue with a pickup. Remember that range will pretty much have to be round trip, because you can't fill up just anywhere.

Another problem with natural gas a motor fuel is the refueling process. If you attempt to fill a tank quickly, the gas will become heated and expand. That expansion will not allow you to completely fill your tank, which even further limits the range of a natural gas vehicle. This problem can be over come if you fill the tank over an 8 to 10 hour period, which you can do with a home refueling station.

So natural gas has its ups and downs. It might be perfect for some people but won't work for others. For me it isn't an issue because I don't have natural gas to my house, or I might consider it for a commuter rig. I don't think it would work as well in a pickup or trail rig.

but it cost almost the same as gas at the one place I have seen it advertiesed around here 2.79 this morn and regular 89 gas was 2.89 :barf::mad3::confused:
fukin oil bastids


I just filled my tanks a few weeks ago. I paid $2 per gallon, or $16 to fill a 33lb forklift tank. Not bad. I set up an account with a propane company. They just bring their big truck that they use to fill house tanks right to my place and fill my forklift tanks. Then they send me a bill once a month. :smokin:

Our work vehicles use the AFICS (http://www.alternative-fuels.ca/index.html) system. Not that tells you a lot, but its the working brains behind the natural gas system that works relatively seamlessly with the vehicles ecm. I have no complaints with it, its a lot better than the previous system they used (as in, the previous supplier still hadn't figured out how to make things work well with factory fuel injected vehicles, so they got into the buisness themselves).
Basic operation: cold starts are on gasoline, switch over to NG is automatic at a preset temperature (can be changed), AFICs brain interfaces with ECM to run vehicle, if you run your tanks down it will automatically switch over to gasoline. There is an override switch so you can pop to gasoline (or back to NG) on the fly.
To ballpark it, for this area, fuel cost is about half that of gasoline. We've got onsite refuelling, so actual costs are even lower. Conversion costs run around $4000 per van (thats complete, parts & labor. System is transferable to new vans... probably until GM makes some substantial changes to the control system again).

Alex.

you have a company that has its trucks/vans running off of ng most of the time. what kind of info can you get on the kit. 4 grand is not bad when i spent 8 grand in gass last year in the company truck. that eventually could all be truned into profit.

No I don't have a company, I work for one and drive one of the vehicles. =-) Theres an email in the website I posted that should get you accurate answers for kit pricing and what is included.
I can answer more generic questions though from a users perspective.

Alex.

do you notice a power loss when using the NG? have you ever pulled a trailer using NG?

Theres a bit of a power hit, but for leadfooted me, I'm not complaining about it. The system previous to the afics was a dog on NG. Myself I don't pull a trailer, woodshop and welding guys do, and they have not voiced any complaints about it (our vans are 3/4 ton w/4.8L). However, those guys drive like slugs anyway, so take it fwiw. If you drive like me and are loaded down regularily, you may not be happy with it. If you tend to spend time on the highway or stuck in slow moving traffic it won't matter one way or the other. Since theres a manual override you can always switch to gasoline when you need to pull away from a stop and switch back when you hit cruising speed.
Quite frankly, the cylinder deactivation on the gm trucks has done quite a bit for helping fuel economy. Right now I'm going through ~50 bucks of gasoline a month (only turning about 20k miles a year right now). But my day to day travels usually have me at the shop at least once so I just hook up NG and let it fill while I'm inside.
We don't log individual NG fuel usage (theres just a master meter with high pressure fill hoses at each parking spot--I'll be filled in 5-10 minutes from empty). I suspect it is not a big issue as the ng costs are split between the departments and how many vans they have.

Alex.