Anybody have input on these? Seems too good to be true for $125 each.

why does it seem to good to be true? is that for the do it yourself ring kit or the whole rim?

Originally posted by camo:
<STRONG>why does it seem to good to be true? is that for the do it yourself ring kit or the whole rim?</STRONG>

Do it yourself kit.

Originally posted by TJoop:
<STRONG>Do it yourself kit.</STRONG>

The web site says

"Beadlocks start at $75 a wheel for an uninstalled kit, or we can supply wheels and installation, starting at $125 a wheel, outright"

sounds like the whole wheel installed and all to me.

Tjoop you been up lately?

What is the wesite?

J. J.

Originally posted by patooyee:
<STRONG>What is the wesite?

J. J.</STRONG>


www.rockstomper.com (http://www.rockstomper.com)
<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Well Erik it looks to me like they can turn them out cheap because they are just using 1/4in steel(cheap but strong) and if someone is a dealer of painted steel wheels they probably only cost 20bucks a wheel for 15x8s. Not knowing anything about them Id say its a good deal. They are 32 bolt and if the edges on the ring arent sharp I bet the 1/4 in steel is plenty strong. Thanks for the post I might buy these.

I saw them when I stopped by yesterday, they look good.

Are they on the market yet? I was under the impression that they wern't <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0">

I have a question....

where they say that they don't cut the outer bead lip off....this may make it cheaper...but would it not also mean you lose the (significant) advantage of being able to easily mount and dismount tires in the field with no special tools, like you can with regular beadlocks??

I asked the same question in an email today,, no answer yet. BUT looking at the one and only pic on there site,,,, I think there lock mounts totally outside the oem rim, the OEM outer bead is no longer used at all. They simply weld there outer bead to the rim, then mount the lock ring outboard to that,,, That would splane there comment on how there locks make a wheel 2 in wider.

Originally posted by Erik Dlux:
<STRONG>The web site says

"Beadlocks start at $75 a wheel for an uninstalled kit, or we can supply wheels and installation, starting at $125 a wheel, outright"

sounds like the whole wheel installed and all to me.

Tjoop you been up lately?</STRONG>

Oh whoops, I followed Scott's thread a few weeks ago about these but forgot the pricing.

No haven't wheeled lately. Kinda tired of cleaning mud.

Originally posted by TJoop:
<STRONG>
No haven't wheeled lately. Kinda tired of cleaning mud.</STRONG>


I hear that. I got mine all cleaned for the first time in about 9mths and got the top and doors on. We went up and I couldnt even get to the hard part on airplane hill. It was way too gooey. You gonna hit this winter at all or just kick back?

Originally posted by BillaVista:
<STRONG>I have a question....

where they say that they don't cut the outer bead lip off....this may make it cheaper...but would it not also mean you lose the (significant) advantage of being able to easily mount and dismount tires in the field with no special tools, like you can with regular beadlocks??</STRONG>

I find that many peopel don't understand this concept, so you are not alone.

Cutting the stock bead surface off or not is irrelevant when it comes time to mount tires on a beadlocked wheel.

On a beadlocked wheel, the inner bead is still used, but the outer bead of the tire now sits OUTSIDE of the rim, and in the case of a beadlock, OUTSIDE of the new welded on flat plate.

That being the case, whatever is behind that welded on plate is irrelevant, since the tire doens;t tough it any more.

Hopefully that clears that up, if not I can provide pictures to help <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>Hopefully that clears that up, if not I can provide pictures to help <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Pics Please DRM <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Erik Dlux:
<STRONG>
I hear that. I got mine all cleaned for the first time in about 9mths and got the top and doors on. We went up and I couldnt even get to the hard part on airplane hill. It was way too gooey. You gonna hit this winter at all or just kick back?</STRONG>


Not sure if you were around here last winter or not but they get a good amount of snow up there, makes some of the easy trails fun. I will make a few snow runs. I am sure I will get bored and hit the goop a time or two also. heh

[ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: TJoop ]

Here is the previous thread on these beadlocks. It may have a little more info.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=014767

one thing to remember is the do-it-yourself type locks will essentially add 1" of width to your rims because the outer bead no longer goes inside the lip of the rim but sits outside of it. yes the bought type locks work the same bu with the outer lip machined off you don't add the width like the do-it-yourself locks. not necessarily a bad thing just something to keep in mind.

Originally posted by TJoop
Here is the previous thread on these beadlocks. It may have a little more info.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=014767

I see it as a good thing in a lot of cases - his kits lets you take cheaper and less used narrow rims and turn them into wider ones... Seems like a good thing to me :cool2:

Oh, and as for the pics - check the other thread mntioned, my pics and full install write-up are linked there :)

I could get that other link to work and I would really like to see more pics I am really interested in these rims they sound like a really good deal.

so, has any one used the bead locks yet? how does the tire stay centered on the wheel, keep from going out of round, does the tire bead inner edge just ride on the bolts to stay centered? I like the weld on the outside idea. sweet price !:) :) :)

OK, since I'm here now...

1. Email is a problem; we've been fighting with our ISP for months on it. If you've sent one asking questions, it may or may not be lost, but the phone is fairly reliable. 303 833 1431. We know there are alternate ISP's out there and whatnot--the area we're in... sucks for technology. Life in a cow town.

2. There's more pix than what's shown on the website and the beadlock page. Check the stuff in http://www.rockstomper.com/images/products/wheels and see if it doesn't help answer some questions too.

3. You can't "just drop the tire over the outer bead seat" on any wheel, beadlock or not. It takes some work; if it doesn't, there wouldn't be enough material there to hold the bead properly. I can do it by hand with a hammer and a tire spoon (or a chunk of tube in a pinch), but it doesn't "just drop on". The other brands of lock setups I've played with... are exactly the same when it comes to tire install.

4. The outer ring centers the tire on our beadlock design. It sounds like it'd be imprecise, but with 32 bolts, it's consistently within 1/32" of round and centered. I wish I could get Swampers that were that close... :) Basically, just start about four bolts with the outer ring sitting on the bead, and then keep adding bolts till they're all started. Torque 'em all down (that takes a while) and then seat the inner bead, and you're ready to play. But for centering, the outer ring centers the tire, and the bolts center the outer ring to within 1/32".

5. $75 per lock is an uninstalled kit. That's two rings, plus the hardware needed to bolt 'em together. You weld it to your wheel. Installed *starts* at $125 if we provide wheels--that's based on us providing a $25/each wheel. Exotic stuff (obviously) costs more. If you want us to put 'em on your wheels, as long as yours are straight and we're welding to the outside, that's $100/wheel (parts and labor). If we're cutting the bead off (yes, you can do that with these, or we can do it for you if you want) that's $125/wheel (parts and labor), plus wheels. If you're buying new wheels to cut up, just buy narrower wheels and save some coin.

6. They're in stock. 15's, 16's, and 16.5's. I don't think we have enough of the little rivet-nuts that we use on 'em to make up all the rings we have in stock, but we can have more nuts in stock, in under a week. They come from a fastener house a half hour from the shop, and if we clean them out, they've got another warehouse a day's shipment away.

7. Yes, they're too good to be true at $75 a lock. One of these days I'll figure out that there's more money to be made off of 'wheelers who want to pay more... but yes, that's for real, no joke, and they really do work, and all that. No, we're not making much on them, and the price is likely to go up after about Christmas, just 'cause the margins are really skimpy on 'em now, but that's the price, at least for now. Bottom line--steel's not that expensive, these are batch-made in 10-wheel groups (minimum) to save money on CNC time, and the rings are a pretty basic design. Good old KISS priniciple. :)

8. There's a (one day old or so) new page on the website with more info and some more pics, too... hopefully that'll help explain things more too.

So... is it possible to install the locks yourself? What is involved with installation?
joe

Scott,

Thanks for the info and pics.

What's involved with welding on the inner ring? Is it something a lathe or machine shop is required for, or is it something a competent welder could do at home?

If you're putting the locks on the outside of existing wheels, you don't need a machine shop. You do need a competent welder, and straight wheels. Since the lock welds to the outer lip, if your wheels are hashed, this is a good time to get new ones.

If you're wanting to keep your existing wheels, and not widen them in the process, you'll need a big lathe or a mill to machine off the outer bead. We'll do it, but it's a PITA; we get $25 a wheel just to machine off the outer bead seat. Then the rest of the install is pretty much the same (that's why it's $100 to put 'em on the outside of existing wheels, or $125 to machine the wheel and then put 'em on).

Assuming you put 'em on the outside, all you have to do is wire-wheel the paint, grime, rust, etc., off your wheels (obviously, with the tires off) around the outer lip where you'll be welding. Then put the inner ring on (the one with bigger holes in it) and center it up by hand. It's an exact match for the OD of the wheel, so it's cake to center, just run your fingers around the OD of the whole thing. Tack it in place in a couple opposite spots, then keep crisscross-tacking it till you've got it tacked in about every three inches or so. Then go back and fill in the space between the tacks.

Since you're depending on that weld to hold the air into the wheel and also to hold the lock ring onto the wheel, it has to be a good weld; if you're not a good welder, don't try it. That's why we offer installation. But a competent welder, can install them him/her self. (my wife does her own welding... :) )

After the rings are welded on, you'll need to pop the rivet-nuts (a bolt, a stack of washers, a pair of Channel Locks and an impact wrench make this really quick-n-easy), then put the tire back on, put all the bolts in, snug it all up, air it up, and go play.

I noticed in the pics that the bolts are not flat against the beadlock surface, can you do anything to fix this? I like most everyone I know will have to put some street miles on the rig getting to and from the trail and these look pretty unsafe to take up to speed. I have a couple of friends that have had beadlock failures on the street and don't want any for myself. Their failure were from the outter bolts breaking and they were using grade 8 bolts.
Do these beadlock come with bolts? Do you have a choice of the counter sunk or regular? Are the countersunk bolts grade 8?
I know beadlocks aren't for street use but these look like they should be speed rated to 10mph

-what does the surface that mates the tire to the rim look like, on the rock stomper bead locks
-does it self center the tire?
-why arn't the bolts counter sunk? for that price
Attn EricD do you trust your welding skills?

I also still have your jumper cables from the last wheeling trip I was on with you. I blew up another motor so I have working on getting that taken care of

Originally posted by homegrowntoy
-what does the surface that mates the tire to the rim look like, on the rock stomper bead locks
-does it self center the tire?
-why arn't the bolts counter sunk? for that price
Attn EricD do you trust your welding skills?

I also still have your jumper cables from the last wheeling trip I was on with you. I blew up another motor so I have working on getting that taken care of

sent you a pm

the reason the bolts dont sit flat on the puter ring is because the outer ring has an angle to it so it centers the tire (same way the champion beadlocks work I think ??) get the countersunk bolts and forget about it. With 36 bolts and 1/4" outer bead I don't thing you have to worry about these things falling apart! anyone think a 135 amp welder could stick these to some steel wheels :D

Here's a closeup of the countersunk one's (thanks for posting the directory location, Scott):

<img src="http://www.rockstomper.com/images/products/wheels/countersunk05.jpg">

Originally posted by homegrowntoy
-what does the surface that mates the tire to the rim look like, on the rock stomper bead locks


Looks like steel. It's smooth, burr-free, all that.

-does it self center the tire?

Yes, but not the way you're expecting it to. It centers on the outer diameter of the bead, rather than the inner; the rings are sized slightly larger than typical beadlocks, and the pull the tire into center on the OD of the lock ring.

-why arn't the bolts counter sunk? for that price

Countersinking and the high-end countersunk bolts we use, are more expensive. Since I'm only interested in losing half my shirt (at this price, margin doesn't even cover my time going to get the locks from the plasma cutter--we're putting 'em out at this to try and get the name-recognition thing going, and the price will probably go up around New Year's) right now, countersunk costs extra.

If you're comparing them price-wise to other locks on the market, I'd love to see the comparison. In fact... here's a few.

Bart Locks (from Summit). $50 a lock kit. Uses 16 bolts (we use 32). Made of thick-ish sheetmetal (I think around 16 gauge); we use all 1/4" steel plate. The Bart Lock kit is the only other "DIY" kit on the market that I'm aware of, and requires that you machine your wheels to install it. As has been noted on other threads, the Bart Lock kit is sold by Summit as "per pair"... that's two rings, one inner, one outer. Ours are $75 "per pair" by the same terminology... but you don't have to machine your rims to install ours, so you save a bunch of machine time. Check the numbers on what's stronger.

MRT's--basically the same rings as Bart's, but more bolts. Up to 36 bolts--if you pay over $200 a wheel. Yes, that includes wheels; ours do too, if you buy the wheels and installation. Usually you're set for under $150 apiece, that way.

Eaton's--(in the magazine, from National Tire-n-Wheel). Uses Bart Locks. About the same price as ours, complete... check above for why our rings are better.

Trailready--starts at $200 apiece. Uses countersunk bolts, but only 18 of them, and they're 5/16"; ours are 3/8". Quick math points to Trailready having 39% (yes, no kidding, less than half) as much bolt cross-section (the weak link, and the whole reason beadlocks aren't DOT approved) as we do. This probably isn't the fairest comparison, cost-wise, as Trailready uses an aluminum lock ring.

Champion probably isn't a fair comparison at all, since (AFAIK) they only do aluminum wheels. We don't have aluminum inner rings available yet (they're at the machine shop being quoted now) to make our beadlocks to fit aluminum wheels.

Bottom line, if you're going to gripe that we're overcharging for our product... look at the rest of the market, realize that, for a stronger, better beadlock, we could charge more... but instead, we're close to beating even the cheap end of the market.

And as for using a 135 amp welder... I use a 185 at about half power to put these on. So a 135 should be more than able to do it.

On the bolts not being flat... yes, something can be done to fix that... don't over-torque 'em. They were torqued to full stall on the air ratchet (about 40-50 foot-pounds) to see if they'd fail from the tire being overinflated and whatnot. That's (from what I'm told) the primary cause of bolt failure on most lock rings, overtorqueing and overinflating. So we did both. Since there's so many bolts, it actually pulled the lock ring in and preloaded it against the tire even tighter... but nothing broke while being tested. Nonetheless, 20 foot-pounds is all we recommend using, 'cause it's all that's needed.

Since it's (apparently) not clear... $100 (for hex head bolts) a wheel for installation... is the lock *and* labor... not just labor. You still buy the wheel on top of that, or ship us the wheel... but wheels are only $25-35 apiece. $125-135 per, plus shipping, for beadlocks... sure does seem like a smokin' price to me. Even at $155/wheel (countersunk bolts) I don't think you'll beat it anywhere.

Ok, i know they are for "offroad use only," but say someone was planned on using them onroad. With the self weld concept, would there be anyway to get them somewhat balanced so driving down the road was not annoying.

Also, when milling the outside edge off so you dont add alot of extra width to your existing wheel when adding the beadlock, how much do you take off. I have access to all the machinery, just need an idea of how much to mill off.

THANKS

Originally posted by rocktoy4me
Ok, i know they are for "offroad use only," but say someone was planned on using them onroad. With the self weld concept, would there be anyway to get them somewhat balanced so driving down the road was not annoying.

Balancing them is not a problem if you have a friend at a tire shop. Many tire shops won't touch 'em for fear of liability or something, but they balance just like normal wheels. You just have to use stick-on weights instead of clip-ons. Or use Equal, or steel shot, or golf balls, or any of the assorted other methods for balancing wheels that come up around here. Most of 'em work, and most are a lot cheaper than a trip to the tire shop every time you go 'wheeling (to fix the out-of-balance from the chunked tread)

Also, when milling the outside edge off so you dont add alot of extra width to your existing wheel when adding the beadlock, how much do you take off. I have access to all the machinery, just need an idea of how much to mill off.

With ours, you don't need to mill off the wheel lip at all. If you choose to mill it off, you should mill it off to the safety bead, which is typically about 1.25-1.5" down from the outer lip of the wheel. You'll see it there, with the tire off, about an inch in from the inside of the outer bead seat area.

Charge more and less people will question the quality. For some reason, some people equate price with quality.
This is one of those gift horses. Don't look it in the mouth...
He seems to be offering an exceptional deal on quality rings. He is the "little guy" trying to make a name. Believe me, if his product is inferior we will find out quicker than if the Pope just had his way with Modana.
Seriously, I'm sure he will do nothing but please, because just one of us is unhappy, the whole board knows and that is no way to build a business.

I personaly think that this deal is too good to pass up. I really would like to by these right now but unfortunitly I have no money but ganrentied that when the money is there I will be buying a set.

Anyody that has seen Rockstomper Rock rods would not be questioning the quality of this guys products. I have the sleeved rock rod for the tie rod, and the unsleeved for the drag link. Beefy!

I just bought a set of MRT's or I would have been all over these.

Originally posted by Bgcj5
I personaly think that this deal is too good to pass up. I really would like to by these right now but unfortunitly I have no money but ganrentied that when the money is there I will be buying a set.
Ditto

Originally posted by Johncm
Charge more and less people will question the quality. For some reason, some people equate price with quality.

I know... and quality does cost, at least to some extent. The Bart Lock rings are cheaper, no doubt about it... and there's a reason they are, too. FWIW, the $50 per that I can buy Bart Locks for, from Summit, is below my cost on our beadlocks. To the point that if I just wanted beadlocks, I'd have bought theirs instead of developing some. Some stuff, is artificially price-inflated to match the rest of the market--case in point, lift kits. I've installed an IFS Chevy lift kit; there's no way there's $1600 in parts, in there... but that's what they get for it.

Basically, Johncm, you hit it on the head. Rockstomper is a tiny company (myself, one employee, and my wife occasionally), just trying to put out a product I can personally be proud to call my own, proud to point to it (on my own truck) and tell you where the rock gouges came from, stuff like that.

Erik D put it well with the first post on this thread, too... "Seems to good to be true for $125 each." Reason it seems too good to be true, is we looked at our cost on these, said "how inexpensive can we crank 'em out?" and figured we'd put 'em out as low as we could go, at least try and get into a market we've never touched, till now. We didn't price the competition to try and figure out what we could get... we priced our cost and figured out what we'd have to get, to break even.

As a further note... everybody we've heard back from, that's seen these, has had about the same thing to say about them. "Holy s*$%, do you think that's heavy duty enough?" has been the pretty consistent across-the-board response. Personally, that makes me happy; overkill is a good thing, especially when it's overkill that gets me home.

Love them Beadlocks!

I love those button head bolts. Will I be able to get a allen wrench in them after 5-6 runs? My rims have taken a bad beating from the rocks.

Which brings up another question: Does this mean I will need to pay for a machinist to install these on my rims?

Thanks Brian W.

Originally posted by bwickert
I love those button head bolts. Will I be able to get a allen wrench in them after 5-6 runs? My rims have taken a bad beating from the rocks.

I've usually been able to use a little pick to get crud out of the allen heads. Worst-case, with the button heads, you can grind off the heads if they're really really really hashed, but I have yet to booger one up that bad. I've even got the same bolts holding on my skidplate, and they're still serviceable.

Which brings up another question: Does this mean I will need to pay for a machinist to install these on my rims?

No. You will need to pay for a welder to install them on your rims, if you're not a qualified welder yourself. But you do not have to machine your wheels to install these. Bear in mind, not machining your wheels, then putting these locks on, will make your wheels wider.

So, bottom line...
If you have 15x8's and want 15x10 beadlocks... get our rings, weld them onto your wheels. Presto-change-o, you now have 15x10 beadlocks.
If you have 15x8's and want 15x8 beadlocks... get 15x6's and our rings, and weld them together. It's about the same cost as taking your 15x8's to the machinist (or sending them to us) and having the outer bead machined off, then the rings welded up. Or simply call us, and for about $125 apiece, you can have 15x8 beadlocks, no hassles, no headaches, no shopping around....

Thanks Scott,

I can run a bead as nice as the one I saw in the pics, so I don't think I need a welder. I'm more concerned about my rock rashed edges. One lip even has a slight bend in it.

So, just smooth the lip of the rim out and weld away?

Thanks for the quick response.

P.S. Are you the fellow that Coby H, introduced me to, at the EB 35TH Anniv. Hammer run.

Originally posted by bwickert
I can run a bead as nice as the one I saw in the pics, so I don't think I need a welder. I'm more concerned about my rock rashed edges. One lip even has a slight bend in it.
So, just smooth the lip of the rim out and weld away?

If the bead edges aren't really hashed, you can smooth 'em up (grind off the high spots till they're true again) and weld away. If they are really hashed, it's time for a rim (or four), depending on how hashed they are. Slight low spots are much easier to deal with, than high spots--lows just mean a little gap to fill with the welder, while highs mean an out-of-true wheel.

P.S. Are you the fellow that Coby H, introduced me to, at the EB 35TH Anniv. Hammer run.

Nope, that wasn't me. I believe it was Aaron; he works here. He's who you'll usually get answering the phone, if you call the shop. It's either him or me, and he's faster.