Diesel vs. Gasser Costs

[Lord Baskerville]

Just an opinion (factual) that I'd like to share.:flipoff2:

When you calc. the "break even point" of a diesel vs. a gas rig you HAVE to include resale value as a part of the equasion.

I have an eng. frien who just LOVES to speadsheet everything and figures are his bag:D

After I bought my 97 PSD he was looking at a new truck also.
He ended up with a 97 PSD...:)

He did every possible calculation on gas vs. diesel costs.

I don't have his figures.....:confused:
But, if you include the increased resale value of a diesel....
The break even point of the extra $$$$$$ to get the diesl option is about cut by 60% time wise.


So, yes a diesel costs more...
But, it will pay for it's self in less miles than most people think.


However.......
If you are a MOSTLY city/short hop/stop and go driver...
A gasser is a better choice for you as diesels really need to warm up and run.


Rant mode off :D

Just for giggles, here is my DD and Tow rig

[KMAN]

I also ran the numbers....and ignored them....because a after you tow with a oil burner there is no substitute.

02 F250 PSD

[Bill Collins]

Originally posted by KMAN
I also ran the numbers....and ignored them....because a after you tow with a oil burner there is no substitute.

02 F250 PSD ain't that the truth:D

[Travis Waldher]

I ran the numbers too when I looked for a truck:

dollar for dollar, gas is CHEAPER than Diesel following the recommended oil changes, etc. I figured I could replace the 360 motor every 100-150,000 miles and still be money ahead.

Now... catch.. diesel has its place. the V10 is a piece of shit from everything I have heard about it. (When a lightly modified 360 can pull righ along side it, something ain't right) So.. that leaves Diesel. If I go to a camper, and plan on hauling the jeep. Diesel is my next engine. If only they made an auto that can survive the cummins.

[KS Toy]

Originally posted by twaldher


The V10 is a piece of shit from everything I have heard about it. (When a lightly modified 360 can pull righ along side it, something ain't right) So.. that leaves Diesel. If I go to a camper, and plan on hauling the jeep. Diesel is my next engine. If only they made an auto that can survive the cummins.

What the fuck ever! I am not going to waste my time on this........

[Tusker]

I am an anal engineer spreadsheet geek too. I did the numbers over a 350,000 expected life of a powerstroke and it was cheaper than a gasser. I ass-u-me-d (and you know what they say about that word :D) that you would need to replace a gasser once during that time ($$$), diesel is cheaper than gas at the pumps ($$$), and the psd gets better mileage than a big-block ($$$). The initial cost and maintenance costs were negatives of course. But with those assumptions, I went with the diesel. If you throw in the benefits of flying up the Tehatchepi's at 70 mph pulling 17,000 lbs on your way to Johnson Valley, you have the most important element in the economic decision making process.... The diesel has huge gonads :smokin:

[DRM]

Originally posted by Tusker
diesel is cheaper than gas at the pumps ($$$),


Not necessarily - here in TN it is not un common to find diesel $.10 HIGHER than low grade gas.

[DRM]

Originally posted by twaldher
the V10 is a piece of shit from everything I have heard about it.

If I had a dime for every person who ran off at the mouth without having a real clue about the Ford V10 - I would be a very rich man :rolleyes:

[DRM]

I ran the numbers - ALL OF THEM.


We are talking about $30-40k trucks, right?

So when ou figure in that $5k PSD option vs. the $800 V10 option, did you figure in INTEREST?

That's right, unless you are paying CASH for that $35k PSD truck, you are gonna pay interest in that extra $4200 purchase price... Did you figure that in too?


And for the person who based their numbers on the expected life of a PSD at 350k miles, you can't do that unless you actually will own it that long, or your calculations are flawed.


Like I said - I ran ALL of the numbers, and the numbers still came out that $ for $ - the V10 was cheaper UNLESS:

1. You drive 40,000 miles per year or more
2. You need to pull 12,000 lbs or more on a regular basis (I have yet to ever pull that much, and have no intentions of doing so)


A buddy has the identical truck to mine - except mine is a V10 short bed, his is a PSD long bed. He averages 16 mpg normal driving, I average 12... not the huge difference people like to claim there is...

I could go on, but I have found that diesel owners generally ignore facts, and will claim diesels are perfect in *every* instance... pretty much a waste of time to try to get them to see anything else :p

[85 rocrnr]

Originally posted by DRM
I ran the numbers - ALL OF THEM.


We are talking about $30-40k trucks, right?

So when ou figure in that $5k PSD option vs. the $800 V10 option, did you figure in INTEREST?

That's right, unless you are paying CASH for that $35k PSD truck, you are gonna pay interest in that extra $4200 purchase price... Did you figure that in too?


And for the person who based their numbers on the expected life of a PSD at 350k miles, you can't do that unless you actually will own it that long, or your calculations are flawed.


Like I said - I ran ALL of the numbers, and the numbers still came out that $ for $ - the V10 was cheaper UNLESS:

1. You drive 40,000 miles per year or more
2. You need to pull 12,000 lbs or more on a regular basis (I have yet to ever pull that much, and have no intentions of doing so)


A buddy has the identical truck to mine - except mine is a V10 short bed, his is a PSD long bed. He averages 16 mpg normal driving, I average 12... not the huge difference people like to claim there is...

I could go on, but I have found that diesel owners generally ignore facts, and will claim diesels are perfect in *every* instance... pretty much a waste of time to try to get them to see anything else :p identical truck not even close that is like telling your boss your comply done with the job but i still nave to finnish one think. ive pulled with many gas trucks i dont care what a diesel cost i will never buy a gas tow rig ever again!!!!!

[DRM]

Originally posted by 85 rocrnr
identical truck not even close that is like telling your boss your comply done with the job but i still nave to finnish one think.


Both are Lariat packages, 4x4, Crew Cab, auto and even the same color :p... But I guess they are tons different :rolleyes:



ive pulled with many gas trucks i dont care what a diesel cost i will never buy a gas tow rig ever again!!!!!

Proves my point above exactly :laughing:

[TEX]

Originally posted by DRM


If I had a dime for every person who ran off at the mouth without having a real clue about the Ford V10 - I would be a very rich man :rolleyes:

I think he was talking about the Dodge since the only other engines he mentioned were the 360 & Cummins :flipoff2:

BTW, diesel is more expensive than gas here too.

I've run the numbers too. And yes, the diesel will bring more resale, but it'll also cost you more not only in price, but also INTEREST if you finance the truck. So, don't leave that out ;) BTW, what I've found is that if you're driving your truck every day, you still can't financially justify the diesel. Unless you're driving it WITH A LOAD every day, you'd be better off financially getting a gas truck, PARKING it until you need it, and use the $5,000 you saved to buy a cheap, used, 4-cylinder car to drive around every day. That's the route I went & it's why it has taken me 8 months to put 4,500 miles on my new truck, despite the fact that I've driven the truck more than necessary just 'cause it's new & I'm testing it out (at that rate, tell me how soon that diesel is gonna pay for itself :D).

For $300, I can put a set of tires on my car that will last 100,000 miles.

For $30, I can buy enough fuel to run 500 miles.

In 110,000 miles, the car has depreciated about $4,000 - try that with a $40,000 brand-new truck.

And the extra insurance is about $200 a year.

So, the bottom line is, all you guys driving around in 3/4 or 1-ton trucks as daily-driver, financially speaking, you ALL made the wrong choice :flipoff2:

TEX

PS, as for "never looking back" once you've owned a diesel, I don't even have a BIG gas engine, and I wouldn't trade it for my father-in-law's PSD. I'd need to get a much, much larger trailer, and probably move to 8,000 feet of elevation before I'd consider the diesel. It would be overkill for my (and most people's) application.

[DRM]

Went on over to www.ford.com and priced out IDENTICAL trucks, except for the V10 and PSD engine options.

Both were 2002 Lariat, Crew Cab, 4x4, Off Road package, short bed, 6 speed.

PSD = $39,705.00
V10 = $35,465.00

At 5% for 5 years, the monthly note would be:

PSD = $749.28
V10 = $669.27

That comes out to an $80.01 a month difference, or $960.18 per year of ownership.


Assuming you own the truck for 3 years (about average), The PSD cost you $2,880.36 more than the .

Now, head over to www.kbb.com to get used truck values. Punching in the same options as above except for a 2000 truck (simulating a 3 year old truck) and using 20k miles per year as for a total of 60,000 miles for both trucks over the 3 years, you get the following trade in values:

PSD = $21,655
V10 = $17,930

Which gets you are re-sale trade in difference of $3,725.

Now subtract the higher payment cost from that, for an ACTUAL difference in re-sale over the 3 year ownership of the truck of $844.64

Now, take that ACTUAL re-sale sifference of $844.64 and figure in the higher maintenance cost of the PSD over those 3 years /60,000 miles and tell me which one comes out ahead ;)

[DRM]

Originally posted by TEX
So, the bottom line is, all you guys driving around in 3/4 or 1-ton trucks as daily-driver, financially speaking, you ALL made the wrong choice :flipoff2:


Wife drives ours daily... but when she is a stay at home mom, "daiy driver" may not get drive at all some days :p

We have put less than 6k miles on ours in the last 4 months, and that includes several trips out of state :)

[Lord Baskerville]

Most of the points brought up are OK...

And it just shows that all people don't have the same "right" decision when it comes to what they are going to drive.

That's OK..... That is why there are more than one company still in bussiness making trucks:D

Of course the Ford is the best truck:flipoff2:

Just my opinion based on facts that work for me:p

The interest is a very good point (paid cash for mine).

For milage comparissons...

ALLWAYS compare like trucks if the figures are going to be worth anything.
Same gears?
Same tires (inflation pressures) ?
Same driving style?
AC on/off Windows open/closed ?
etc. etc. etc.

This all makes a difference.

I average 14.??? MPG overall with a low of approx. 12 and a high of about 18 mpg. 15-16 MPG daily
I have 4:10 gears....
So, my milage hurts a little, but, I can tow in OD.

I love my truck.
I have also owned a lot of gassers and they worked for me too.
For most people a diesel is a waste of $$$$$.
For me it was/is the perfect decision.


Run what ya brung boys:D

Cory

[DRM]

Originally posted by Lord Baskerville
For milage comparissons...

ALLWAYS compare like trucks if the figures are going to be worth anything.
Same gears?
Same tires (inflation pressures) ?
Same driving style?
AC on/off Windows open/closed ?
etc. etc. etc.

This all makes a difference.


Exactly.... and there are MORE factors that make a difference to:

*just driver, or normally 2-4 passengers?
*topper?
*bed cover?
*tailgate down?
*lifted?
*tire tread design?
*driving style (hammer down, or easy going)?
*altitude?
*engine modifications (factor in both performance and cost changes)?
*auto or manual?
*city driving or interstate?
*empty bed, or partially loaded at all times?


I could go on, but you are right - there are a LOT of factors to compare vehicles.

In the comparison I made above with the long bed PSD vs. my short bed V10 - the trucks are driven about the same (I know his driving style), same regional driving conditions, same average of interstate to ity miles, etc...

[TyTy]

If ya wanna go penny for penny on truck prices, I have the solution. DONT GET INTO OFFROADING!:D:D:D

For those who wanna finish going overboard on a sport that is really overboard....

GOT DEISEL?:D

[DSI]

while i was shopping for mine (f250 V10) i was actually planning to get a PSD, looked at seeral places and none wanted to budge on the price, all were 38-40k for a short bed x-cab XLT well teh V10 lariet i ended up buying they went down the invoice on, (i saw it) $29,400 9k less than the PSD had 3 different dealer's do almost the same thing, i'm extremly happy with my V10 and it doesn't get but 3-4 worse than friends with PSD's and it pulls right along side of them towing equal or greater weights.

i even got 8mpg weighing over 17k and towing over a mountain pass... passing PSD's towing less... and i've only got 3.73 gears and 315/75 tires...

[Tusker]

Originally posted by DRM
.....did you figure in INTEREST?....
....And for the person who based their numbers on the expected life of a PSD at 350k miles, you can't do that unless you actually will own it that long, or your calculations are flawed.....

If you are going to get that technical (and you are right, you really should to be that technical to be accurate about it), you need to take the interest and subtract the inflation rate to get the true net present value of the difference between the two. So interest does take away, but not as much as it would outwardly appear.

As for the 350,000 miles, I do plan on owning it that long. I have 140,000 on it so far :D. If you sell it before the end of its "life", you need to figure in the added resale value of the diesel (salvage value) to make things fair.

As for the "you don't need a diesel unless you use it regularly to tow 12,000 lbs". That is true, but if I used that as my measure I would have bought a two-wheel drive, 4-cyl. Toyota, saved lots of dough, and fealt :( for 10 years driving it.

In your cost comparison on the 36 month life, you made some errors. The psd actually COSTS you $980 more than the V-10 rather than "saving" you $844.64. The simple ownership calcs actually go something like this (cost to finance of 36 payments less resale plus outstanding loan balance):

PSD cost to own = $26,974 (36 pmts @ $749.28) - $21,655 (resale) + $17,079 (oustanding loan balance) = $22,398

V-10 cost to own = $24,093 - $17,930 + $15,255 = $21,418

In the area of operating costs, things are a little different however. Using you figures and my local fuel prices.... The PSD over 60,000 miles @16 mpg would use 3,750 gallons of fuel. At $1.50 per gallon (local prices), the fuel would cost $5,625 over the three years. For the V-10, it would use 5,000 gallons (12 mpg avg??) over the same 60,000 miles. At a cost of $1.60 (same local prices), the fuel would cost $8,000.

Soooo, the psd cost is $22,398 + $5,625 = $28,023
and the V-10 cost is $21,418 + $8,000 = $29,418

PSD savings = $1,395 $$$$$$$

The psd would use around 100 more quarts of oil @ $1.50 each (assuming 5,000 mile oil changes) and about an extra $50 in oil filters. Throw in the marginal "extra" cost of 3 fuel filters and 3 air filters at $10 each for another $60, and the total is:

$1,395 - $150 - $50 - $60 = $1,135 cheaper for the Powerstroke . When you compare that to an overall cost of $30,000+ over the three year term, it isn't enough to get excited about though.

I manage a large fleet of equipment. I actually buy a mix in the pickups and SUV's. I buy v-10's for the start and stop around-town stuff, and I buy diesels for the heavy duty work. Thay are both great.

Anyway guys, you cannot make this an "objective, right/wrong" decision. What is right for you depends on what YOU are going to do with it and what you want to pay to get it done.

[DRM]

Some interesting numbers there :)

I only see 2 issues.

1. Here *locally* diesel is quite often higher - so that changes the numbers a bit.

2. Those numbers figure in re-sale value like it is a hard and fast number, whish it is not.

I prefer to work the numbers not figuring in an estimated re-cale value specifically, since that is a true estimated value and can vary widely...


But you are correct - there are so many variables that makes each one have benefits for each person.

And generally, you find that gas users see this, but most diesel-heads are blind to it ;)

[70~K5]

I'd love to get the mileage some of you talk about. '95 C3500 454/4L80HD 3.73s 215/85Rx16"s tires. Trip to Az last year runing 70-80 mph most the way no trailer ac on. I averaged 11.5 mpg.

[Tusker]

On my annual Wyoming hunting trip, I run 80 mph and get a little over 18 mpg (2,400 mile trip) with my 1996 psd w/3.55's and a camper shell. Weighing in at a little over 17,000 lbs GVW, I got around 11 mpg (avg 70 mph too) going to Johnson Valley in February.

[jasonmt]

The cost of the fuel was one of the major factors in my purchase decision - I have a 2002 F-550, 6spd, Diesel which weighs in around 12,000-13,000 #'s. Diesel is about 54 cents a liter (Canadian) ( 1.34 American per U.S. gallon ) while regular gas runs me 67.8 cents a liter ( Canadian ) ( 1.68 American per U.S. gallon ) I drive 90,000 km ( 56,000 Miles ) a year, with these prices. I average around 14 MPG with the Diesel, While my previous truck - 97 F-350 dually, 460, 5spd, 12,000-13,000#'s ( overweight ) I got an average of 10MPG over the 450,000 km I put on it.

1 year fuel cost for Diesel: 56000/14= 4000 gallons * $1.34 per gallon= $5360 for a year.

1 year fuel cost for gas: 56,000/10= 5600gallons * $1.68 per gallon= $9408 for a year.

$9408 - $ 5360 = $4048 savings in fuel cost per year.

Cost of Diesel: $ 5005 Canadian/ $ 3300 American.

Payback period for Diesel ($3300 extra cost/$4048 savings in fuel per year) = 0.815 years/9.78 months/297 days. This makes the Diesel a very attractive option up here.

Pro's of the Diesel: Fuel savings, More pulling power, Easily modified for more power, Longer expected duty life and resale value of vehicle with high mileage is generally much better than gas. Welder on the back is also Diesel, and many of the plants/sites I go to will not let a spark ignited rig on site. No emission tests if legislated. Uses less fuel while idling for long periods.

Con's of the Diesel: Higher initial cost, Marginally higher maintenance cost, Not suited for stop and go traffic around town. When the weather gets cold (-40) you just let the truck or welder run all of the time. Narrow powerband compared to gas.

Pro's of gas: Lower initial cost, Easier to drive as powerband is wider, Marginally lower maintenance cost, Easier to start and warm up in cold weather.

Con's of gas: Higher fuel costs, Shorter duty life, High mileage resale value much lower, More expensive to modify for more power. Not exempt for emission tests?. Uses more fuel while idling for long periods.


Basically for my application Diesel is much better suited, and also a more economical choice for ME. The fuel prices as well as what I use the vehicle for have a lot to do with this, compared to someone who uses theirs 90% D.D. and 10% pulling.

[TyTy]

Originally posted by Tusker
If you are going to get that technical (and you are right, you really should to be that technical to be accurate about it), you need to take the interest and subtract the inflation rate to get the true net present value of the difference between the two. So interest does take away, but not as much as it would outwardly appear.


That is not how you calculate NPV. Actually NPV is nothing like what your describing...

"The present value of an investment's future net cash flows minus the initial investment. If positive, the investment should be made (unless an even better investment exists), otherwise it should not. "

NPV is a quick test you can do as a decision factor on an investment. You put the estimated cash flows (they have to be estimated since the project hasent been undergone yet) and subtract them from the known cost of the initial investment. NPV really has nothing to do with interest rates... its all about the benjamins.:D

Also, I dont see why you would subtract out inflation when the real world has inflation. If you subtract it out in the interest rate (your right, inflation IS included in andy intest rate) then you have to add that cost back in or else your are subtracting a real world cost from a figure that is supposed to be a real world figure, the cost to own a truck...

By subtracting out inflation you are coming up with a cost to own that DOES NOT include inflation. This is inaccurate as we all have to deal with inflation. (At least until the government stops printing money and then we'll have to deal with deflation:D:D:D)

:)

[Tusker]

Originally posted by TyTy
Also, I dont see why you would subtract out inflation ........

Ok dude, you got me :D . College and econimcs class was 20 years ago. Interest DOES matter though in the time value of money. Look at your house for instance. If you make 360 payments of $1,000 (both P&I) over 30 years, did you REALLY pay $360,000 in today's dollars for the house? No you didn't. Ask anyone who is in the 29th year of their mortagage what they are paying for a similar house. It won't be what you are paying. Another way to look at it is if someone gives you the option of paying them $1,000 dollars cash today, or the same $1,000 cash in 5, 10, or 30 years, which would you choose? The point is it is the margin between the inteset rate and the inflation rate that is really the "cost". A fixed cost today (payment) is more the same fixed cost tomorrow (payment) in an inflationary environment. My statement would have been correct if you were trying add up the total cost of all the payments over the life of the loan and call them the "cost" in today's dollars.

Anyway, like I said I knew this stuff 20 years ago, and am probably full of just a little shiat these days. The point I was trying to make is that you need to look at the total costs to own and operate. Interest is a cost, but it isn't something to isolate per se. A cost is a cost.

[fabricator]

well i have borrowed desiel trucks before
dodge and ford,
wasn't impressed with the way they lagged in power.
until they reach 70mph they don't pull like a big block.
yes after 70 mph they do real well.
so if i had one, i would have to add finances for the power chip
that i would have to install just so the gas trucks wouldn't spank
my ass going up a grade.
this was determined using the same trailer and weight, and
destination
so i will just keep my raggedy old big block until i see otherwise.
the fuel milage was about 13 on the desiels and about 10 on the
gas.

[KS Toy]

Damn David you are the man! Thanks for going to all of the time & trouble to figure all that out. Oh yea,this damn thread makes me fawkin tired.

[KMAN]

What the hell, this thread is making my head hurt. I don't know any wealthy people that invest in trucks. Your truck is an expense. Just look at the up front numbers......and a diesel is overall more expensive......and it is well worth it. You want a long time return...buy land.....stock market sucks....yea it greased me and I am ranting....
.
.
.
.
.
on a side not I rode in an 8.1 Chevy. It pulled like a B*********tch.

[KMAN]

[i would have to add finances for the power chip
that i would have to install just so the gas trucks wouldn't spank
my ass going up a grade.

You got to work the turbo on hills and they pull in overdrive no problem. If you get stuck on a hill with no boost, SOL.

[KS Toy]

Originally posted by KMAN
on a side not I rode in an 8.1 Chevy. It pulled like a B*********tch.

Now Chevy makes trucks too? Hu, you learn something new everyday:flipoff2:

[TyTy]

Originally posted by Tusker
Ok dude, you got me :D . College and econimcs class was 20 years ago. Interest DOES matter though in the time value of money.

Thats alright, I gotta be on top os this shit, Im a senior in college, Auburn University Finance Program:D:D:D

Agreed on the second thing:D

[chevota01]

A new diesel tax in my state of Connecticut just added .29¢ per gallon to the cost which will bring it up to around $2/gallon. Changed my thinking about diesel vs. gas for overall cost. Gas is only $1.59 for 93 octane!

[DRM]

Originally posted by chevota01
A new diesel tax in my state of Connecticut just added .29¢ per gallon to the cost which will bring it up to around $2/gallon. Changed my thinking about diesel vs. gas for overall cost. Gas is only $1.59 for 93 octane!

Good GAWWWWWD! :eek: Are you serious? :mad3:

[mike]

Originally posted by DRM


Good GAWWWWWD! :eek: Are you serious? :mad3:

Doesnt suprise me. Lotta people dont know the difference between particulates and toxic emissions. Lets punish those dirty diesel folks

[Tusker]

Originally posted by TyTy


Thats alright, I gotta be on top os this shit, Im a senior in college, Auburn University Finance Program:D:D:D

Agreed on the second thing:D

Well you can REALLY understand when I tell you I got my degree from Chico State :beer: :beer: :beer: ! Anyway, here's to me here's to you .......:beer: :beer:

[jp junkie]

PSD = $21,655 V10 = $17,930 Which gets you are re-sale trade in difference of $3,725. Now, take that ACTUAL re-sale sifference of $844.64 and figure in the higher maintenance cost of the PSD over those 3 years /60,000 miles and tell me which one comes out ahead

Okay. Now lets leave the kbb world and go into real market value. I know, I buy a lot of diesel trucks every year. The PSD that has a kbb of 21,655 will wholesale for at least that, usually more. The POS V10 will probably wholesale for maybe 15 grand. So if you want to get your figures right, the PSD will be worth about 7 grand more than the V10, and that is a fact. That is real world.

[KMAN]

Originally posted by chevota01
A new diesel tax in my state of Connecticut just added .29¢ per gallon to the cost which will bring it up to around $2/gallon. Changed my thinking about diesel vs. gas for overall cost. Gas is only $1.59 for 93 octane!

How did THAT slip by the Truckers Union Lobbiest(?). I just paid $1.21 in OHIO.

[BillaVista]

I never understood the 'comapre total cost to own /operate" thing at all?

That's not real life - who the fawk deals in only the bottom line, end result (not in business...I mean in personal life). If we did - why not just fast Forward to the end and count up?

Hard to explain what i mean, and I know squat about economics, so my terms are prob. all wrong, but I *think* I'm trying to say it's more about cash flow than bottom line. Like, bottom line, it wouldn;t make any difference if you were paid once a week or once a year (not counting inflation bla blah blah) ...but who could live being paid once a year??

It's during everyday life - whether it's draggin your wallet out at the pump or cruising up a hill with your foot on the throttle that you will be happy or not with your choice...that's what you have to think about.

Total cost of ownership???? Who gives a fawk?

[DRM]

Originally posted by jp junkie


Okay. Now lets leave the kbb world and go into real market value. I know, I buy a lot of diesel trucks every year. The PSD that has a kbb of 21,655 will wholesale for at least that, usually more. The POS V10 will probably wholesale for maybe 15 grand. So if you want to get your figures right, the PSD will be worth about 7 grand more than the V10, and that is a fact. That is real world.

Your facts are dead wrong.... how do I know? Well, I just traded in my 2wd Supercab SuperDuty V10 auto 1999 model with 60k miles for $17k... Yes, a 2wd :p

And I have priced diesels and they are NOT bringing that much more.

And THATS "real world" - not kbb, not your assumptions ;) (you know I am just giving you a hard time for the hell of it, right? :p )

[mike]

Originally posted by DRM

And THATS "real world" - not kbb, not your assumptions ;) (you know I am just giving you a hard time for the hell of it, right? :p )

His world aint Spring Hill TN. Neither is mine ;) Either way I agree with Bill. I find bottom line in personal life awful boring. If it excites you fine. But I'll keep my oil burner, I prefer it. I like the sounds, I like the way it tows, and I really like the 25 gallons I put in between 470 and 500 miles. Total cost of ownership? I dont care, but Im not puttin $50 a week into the gastank

[bwright]

Originally posted by DRM


Your facts are dead wrong.... how do I know? Well, I just traded in my 2wd Supercab SuperDuty V10 auto 1999 model with 60k miles for $17k... Yes, a 2wd :p

And I have priced diesels and they are NOT bringing that much more.

And THATS "real world" - not kbb, not your assumptions ;) (you know I am just giving you a hard time for the hell of it, right? :p )

David,
Where did you trade your truck at? I'm looking at new trucks now....low interest rates, rebates, and I can get the 'a' plan on Fords. I'm going to get another PSD/6psd, but this time I'm getting a 4x4 and a super or crew cab. 6spd's around here are as rare as hen's teeth.

[DRM]

Originally posted by bwright


David,
Where did you trade your truck at? I'm looking at new trucks now....low interest rates, rebates, and I can get the 'a' plan on Fords. I'm going to get another PSD/6psd, but this time I'm getting a 4x4 and a super or crew cab. 6spd's around here are as rare as hen's teeth.

Woody Anderson Ford in Huntsville Al.

I just haggled and haggled and told them I had to have my payoff of there was no deal.

As for 6 speeds, the only ones I ever see are the bare bones work trucks.

[Bill Collins]

Originally posted by DRM


Woody Anderson Ford in Huntsville Al.

I just haggled and haggled and told them I had to have my payoff of there was no deal.

As for 6 speeds, the only ones I ever see are the bare bones work trucks. it's the same here in texas,the only 6-speeds come in the xl model.i wanted a standard in the xlt but would have to order it,and the price would have been more than the auto.i got,they would not give as many rebates if they had to order.but now i have come to like the auto...

[bwright]

Originally posted by Bill Collins
it's the same here in texas,the only 6-speeds come in the xl model.i wanted a standard in the xlt but would have to order it,and the price would have been more than the auto.i got,they would not give as many rebates if they had to order.but now i have come to like the auto...

That's the reason I've started looking at Dodges. It seems that more of the Dodges come with the manual transmissions. I have a 99 F350 XLT 6 speed now, but I want to upgrade to a 4x4 and ext. cab.

[jp junkie]

Your facts are dead wrong.... how do I know? Well, I just traded in my 2wd Supercab SuperDuty V10 auto 1999 model with 60k miles for $17k... Yes, a 2wd

And you probably traded your v10 for a new v10 which they were extremly ready to get rid of........ :smokin:

[DRM]

Originally posted by jp junkie
And you probably traded your v10 for a new v10 which they were extremly ready to get rid of........ :smokin:


Yup, got another V10... And when I go to sell it, I will get a good price for it too :cool2:

[mda]

You folks will hate me after this post but I searched for a job that would supply me a vehicle.

I now work for an auto auction. (IS Dept.)

I get a company car every 2 years. Spend up to 30K. All maintenance is expensed. 1 tank of gas / fuel per week, expensed. Anytime I travel all gas / fuel is covered.

My new company car is a 01 GMC 3500 Duarmax/Allison 4x4. It had 5K on it, company bought it for 26K in Feb 02. In January of 2004 I'll be walking the lot searching for a new truck.

Now that's a deal!

NO BS. You IS guys look at the auto remarketing industry. They are just now waking up to technology.

[fugly 2]

OK Pigeons , step back .Here comes the cat .

Petrol verses Diesel costs .

When push comes to shove you can make your own diesel .
So for the owner driver that is that worried about fuel prices ~make your own diesel .:smokin:

[yager]

Originally posted by DSI
.....i even got 8mpg weighing over 17k and towing over a mountain pass... passing PSD's towing less... and i've only got 3.73 gears and 315/75 tires...


Maybe they wern't racing? :flipoff2:

I get my best mpg at 65-70 so anything over that burns $.....


As far as what y'all are spending, who the fuck cares, lets all start aguing about our houses and square footage... As long as you junk doenst fall off your trailer in front of me and your truck gets you there and back who cares !!

This is almost as bad as the ford-trucks SD forum !

-yag

[Toddy]

Damn Dave where are you buying Fuel. In Knoxville it is almost allways .10 cheeper then reg. unleaded. I love my 02 PSD. I put a 50 hp chip in it and it runs like a bitch. I towed with my 99 Chevy and my god what a difference. Ill tell you what we can meet half way and have a pull off if you want and settle it for everybody. Just kidding but I bet we could sell the video for a ton on the board. I got a 4" lift I think I am gonna put on mine soon. Like someone said run what you brung. But I like how my $5000 sound when the popoff valve blows at abot 25 psi. And I catch myself not listening to the radio alot also so I can hear chittychitty bang bang when I gas it. By the way shouldnt you be workin on your truck anyway. By the way mine is a XLT 6 speed. If you are that hard up for a 6 speed go order one. Another note the guys with big numbers are going to autos they cant keep clutches in them with 1000 ft/lbs od torque.

Looking for a good comeback,
Todd