And I honestly cant blame them. I was up there 2 weeks ago with the old man and a few friends and unfortunately the actions of a few ruined the atmosphere for all of us.

As we pull up to the sluice box we see 1 shitbox stock cj blocking the way and 15 or so lowlife drunk scumbags throwing beer cans, yelling obcenities, and trying to manually push this broken down jeep through the sluice.

Every single one of them was drunk off thier ass, including the driver. It was simply amazing no one got hurt or killed.

For example, they were trying to winch the cj up the side after they gave up. When doing so, about 6 or 7 of them jump behind the jeep and begin to push it up the steep slope. Real fucking smart dipshits. As they took a break to get another beer, the winch cable broke as the jeep rolled backwards 15 feet slamming into the rocks. Unfortunatly they werent still behind it...

Later that night they continued to ruin the trip by being obnoxiously loud and blasting repeatedly David Allen Coe songs like "nigger fucker" till 1 am.

basically they ruined the trip for my party, and anyone other decent human being out there that weekend.

After this trip I cant help but show more compassion for the tree huggers trying to close down trails, cause unfortunatley 4 wheeling seems to attract lowlife assholes, and if they are going to treat the trails like that, then they dont deserve to be out there.

The following pictures do not do justice to how bad these subhumans were...
(sorry webshots sucks, you gotta copy and paste)

http://community.webshots.com/photo/43054815/43055244lAmpvf

http://community.webshots.com/photo/43054815/43055377Wzbagh

http://community.webshots.com/photo/43054815/43055580ifPxxQ

http://community.webshots.com/photo/43054815/43055793gqLeph

http://community.webshots.com/photo/43054815/43056056QPJsOq

http://community.webshots.com/photo/43054815/43055044zHOApx


Discuss

EDIT fixed pics

those links don't work. I was there that weekend though and I know who you're talking about.

ABSOLUTLY RIGHT!!!, you should have found they're beer while they were in the BOX and poored it all out, and you and the old man should have opened a can of whoop A$$ on them! they need to have police dudes out there every weekend on quads like they did memorial day weekend to keep the COP'S TV shw away:mad3: :rolleyes:

The pics came up for me...what a bunch of dips and that gives all the rest of us a bad name....If I was there I would have yanked em out with the wording that they get the hell out and never come back....I am kinda glad no one got hurt when it came back down...thats what really would put it in the news...."bunch of off roading drunks killed when vehicle rolls over on them on the Rubicon"....

I think its a loosing battle. Between the greenies and idiots like this our reputation is shot. :( These are the people the greenies will point too, and since there seem to be so many of them, we end up suffering for it.:mad3:

Originally posted by peeJ
ABSOLUTLY RIGHT!!!, you should have found they're beer while they were in the BOX and poored it all out, and you and the old man should have opened a can of whoop A$$ on them! they need to have police dudes out there every weekend on quads like they did memorial day weekend to keep the COP'S TV shw away:mad3: :rolleyes:


Apperently you've never gotten between a bunch of no shirt red-necks and thier beer before, I did once. :nuke:
Before you do I suggest practicing by trying to take a grizzly cub away from it's moma, less dangerous! :rasta:

Originally posted by ForestCam



Apperently you've never gotten between a bunch of no shirt red-necks and thier beer before, I did once. :nuke:
Before you do I suggest practicing by trying to take a grizzly cub away from it's moma, less dangerous! :rasta:

Ya, ussually I am not anti confrotational at all, but we were outnumbered 5 to 1. And who knows what could happen.

Thier camp was the worst part. When we pulled by the next morning to head out, their camp was completly trashed. beer cans everywhere, grabage in the spider Lake, people passed out. And I highly doubt it got cleaned up sufficiently.

That trip just might have been my last.

These kinds of stories are really starting to piss me off :mad3: I've read so many threads just like this one about how the Con is these days that I honestly don't even want to expierence it, and that's a real shame:mad:

I thought us wheelers were above this kind of shit, theft, drunken stupidity, ect. It's a real bummer :(

:mad3: :mad3: :mad3:

Might I suggest http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61854 ?

Get a shot of a license plate....?

Paul

I thought us wheelers were above this kind of shit, theft, drunken stupidity, ect. It's a real bummer :( [/B]

Those aren't wheelers, they're assholes.:nuke:

how'd they all fit in that little cj-5? :flipoff2: sorry to hear about your trip, unfortunately sometimes there's nothing you can do. i just dont camp at the busy camp spots. no more problem ;)

I was up there also and we had our own set of a$$holes camped next to us that kept the party going to well after midnight. I will give the drunken asses credit (I can't believe I'm doing this) actually the driver of the broke ass CJ, he picked up a lot of the cans after they got through yelling at each other. I definitely will never camp at spider lake again. The shitbirds next to us got yelled at the last time they pulled their're all nighter and there response was "hey you're at the sluice so f--k you!". Real considerate. And you're right this is becoming more and more common, as far as seeing how drunk and how loud you can play your stereo. The group next to us were a bunch of rednecks out of Santa Rosa and were playing their safe "cracker rap" as loud as they could and thinking they were so cool. I tried to talk to them earlier in the day thinking (wrongly) that they would be a little considerate. Sure takes the fun out of it.

I tried once at a golf course I worked at. We had a no alcohol rule that we somewhat enforced (if you were cool about it we kinda looked the other way).
Well one Saturday we were out working and I notice these two foursomes come by and every single guy had his golf bag in one hand and a case in the other. The other maintenance guy and I just kinda shook our heads and kept on working. Well after about an hour we ran down to the far side of the course to see what was up and these ass holes were making divots in the greens to mark who was closest to the pin.:rolleyes: The next hole we find the flag about 20' from the cup and it's being held up by two cases of beer which we take. When we find the lead foursome to have a chat we come across one of them taking a piss against a tree in full view of the condos that lined the course. I walk right up to the guy and point out that there's a public restroom about 50' from where he's pissing! Well then he notices we have their beer in the golfcart and he demands it back. I explain to him that right next to the 1st tee there's this big 4x8 sign that has all the rules and that #4 is that alcohol is not permitted on the course. That little fawker goes over to his bag and takes out a wood and starts coming after us! It's a damn good thing we removed the govenors from all the mainteance carts!
Well to wrap up the story the cops were called by superintendant and the guy got a lifetime ban from the course, which kinda sucked for him since HIS condo was right on the 2nd tee!:D

Originally posted by Mustard Dog

I thought us wheelers were above this kind of shit, theft, drunken stupidity, ect. It's a real bummer :(

'Us wheelers' are above all that.
However there are still far too many people who just don't give a shit. these are the same people who trash places like Greenhorn Creek. Even though there are over 10,000 registered users on this BBs, I doubt very many of these idiots can be counted among them.



Eric

No shit. Nothing wrong with having a few beers when camping but a dick is a dick. Problem is, they pretty much just littered.

Cant's say they are anything but stupid for gettin behind the rig when the cable came loose. Can't say they were anything but naive for being racist. We live in a country where that is the freedom we have though.

I'm sure they'd get a nice fine for littering. I'm just used to seeing good people having fun responsibly and helping eachother out on the trails.

Somebody said it once in another thread...
It's all about helping the other guy out! That's why I love wheeling and camping.

Originally posted by Joe Roen

For example, they were trying to winch the cj up the side after they gave up. When doing so, about 6 or 7 of them jump behind the jeep and begin to push it up the steep slope. Real fucking smart dipshits. As they took a break to get another beer, the winch cable broke as the jeep rolled backwards 15 feet slamming into the rocks. Unfortunatly they werent still behind it...

After this trip I cant help but show more compassion for the tree huggers trying to close down trails, cause unfortunatley 4 wheeling seems to attract lowlife assholes, and if they are going to treat the trails like that, then they dont deserve to be out there.

The following pictures do not do justice to how bad these subhumans were...
(sorry webshots sucks, you gotta copy and paste)



Joe, you say those pictures didn't do justice. Was there a back up of traffic and people getting upset that they couldn't go through the box? Those pictures show me that they did nothing wrong. They went up the side because he was broke, right? Makes perfect sense to me. Cables unfortunately break and good thing nobody got hurt from it breaking. And obviously they thought the rig was fine or else they would not have left it in that position to roll back. So it rolled back and nobody was hurt. That doesn't give YOU the right to say "Unfortunatly they werent still behind it". You really should have pictures to back up bs that is happening or more people to complain about it. Obviously, there was somebody here that stated that the boys did pick up their cans.

As far as the keeping you up and verbal remarks they might want to show a little respect and be more considerate of others. But that area is the "party area." That is pretty much why we don't hang out in the sluice box area anymore.

For the ease of viewing.

2

3

4

5

6

I'm having a hard time "seeing" anything wrong here other than yes, they may have been messy, but someone said they did clean up. And maybe they were a little drunk and rude, it's been known to happen. As far as being stupid ok but last time I checked that wasn't against the law.

I'm not seeing this as "well shit, let's just throw in the towel because the whole lot is worthless" here. Basically these guys are having a bit too much fun and with a little education and guidance they'll be more concerned about everyone else and the trail.

Originally posted by 4x4Grrl


Joe, you say those pictures didn't do justice. Was there a back up of traffic and people getting upset that they couldn't go through the box? Those pictures show me that they did nothing wrong. They went up the side because he was broke, right? Makes perfect sense to me. Cables unfortunately break and good thing nobody got hurt from it breaking. And obviously they thought the rig was fine or else they would not have left it in that position to roll back. So it rolled back and nobody was hurt. That doesn't give YOU the right to say "Unfortunatly they werent still behind it". You really should have pictures to back up bs that is happening or more people to complain about it. Obviously, there was somebody here that stated that the boys did pick up their cans.

As far as the keeping you up and verbal remarks they might want to show a little respect and be more considerate of others. But that area is the "party area." That is pretty much why we don't hang out in the sluice box area anymore.

Well I have now learned no longer to camp near the sluice. Its too bad though because spider can be a great place to camp.

If they did clean up, then that is good. And no there wasnt a huge lineup of people behind waiting. And they only pulled out of there after at least an hour of fucking around. And I dont know how you can say they are not doing anything wrong when the DRIVER is drunk off his ass. Thank god no one got hurt, not because I give a shit about them, but because if they did get hurt, then the trail would be ruined for us all.

Its just unfortunate you cant go wheeling and enjoy the outdoors at the same time.

Its true, I did a bad job when it came to the picture taking, but that is only because I like to have pictures of my rig and my friends and not all of those dicks when the camera only holds 15 pics.

Originally posted by Belly Dragger
I'm having a hard time "seeing" anything wrong here other than yes, they may have been messy, but someone said they did clean up. And maybe they were a little drunk and rude, it's been known to happen. As far as being stupid ok but last time I checked that wasn't against the law.

I'm not seeing this as "well shit, let's just throw in the towel because the whole lot is worthless" here. Basically these guys are having a bit too much fun and with a little education and guidance they'll be more concerned about everyone else and the trail.

Yes its possible they werent entirerly wrong. If you can put up with that bullshit all weekend then that is fine. but I dont work 40 hours a week so that my weekend can be ruined.

This kind of experience makes me doubt why I spend so much time and effort and money in this "sport". I'd rather stay at home.

I have really been discouraged by the Rubicon so far...I really don't know if I want to be associated with this kind of crap anymore...Even though my rig has plenty of time put into it...maybe this is the time to sell out....The white trash has moved in, as they do everywhere and it's about time that I moveed out...I get so frustrated with :beer: people

Yeah- I have neighbors who won't let their kids play with mine because we are the "people with the big tires"- I heard this from their daughter as she was explaining to mine why she could'nt stay and play. 1 asshole on the trail can give us all a bad name!! I'm with Joe - if you want to drink , do it at camp and don't drive!!!! Stupid Fawkers!!!:mad3:

Originally posted by locrwln
I was up there also and we had our own set of a$$holes camped next to us that kept the party going to well after midnight. I will give the drunken asses credit (I can't believe I'm doing this) actually the driver of the broke ass CJ, he picked up a lot of the cans after they got through yelling at each other. I definitely will never camp at spider lake again. The shitbirds next to us got yelled at the last time they pulled their're all nighter and there response was "hey you're at the sluice so f--k you!". Real considerate. And you're right this is becoming more and more common, as far as seeing how drunk and how loud you can play your stereo. The group next to us were a bunch of rednecks out of Santa Rosa and were playing their safe "cracker rap" as loud as they could and thinking they were so cool. I tried to talk to them earlier in the day thinking (wrongly) that they would be a little considerate. Sure takes the fun out of it.

I'm not sure who you are but I was the one with the CJ with the broken power steering pump. Your group helped me out with a double-ended barbed fitting.....and some creamer for my wife's coffee. Thank You.

As for your accusations of playing "cracker rap" and saying "hey you're at te sluice so f--k you!", I think you'd better rethink what you are saying. Those "rednecks" were URJB and I was with them that night. The music was quiet and we were by no means drunk and obnoxious. As a matter of fact, I was surprised at how quite and calm they were, having camped and partied with the Pirates in the past. Bottom line is that every group has their own opinion of a good time. For some its camping quietly in the woods and for others, it drinking and listening to music all night. I enjoy both and don't accuse either of ruining my weekend. I KNOW that people party at Spider so if I want to relax and have a quiet weekend, I'll go the Springs.....and you should too.

BTW, you guys left behind a bag of trash, some tent stakes and a tarp. The "rednecks" picked it up and drove it out....

How bout you guys quit doing your fawking webcomplainig about how bad every one and how good you might be.

Did we see you out a few weekends ago helping with the trail maintenace have.

I saw plenty of people that saw what we were doing and stopped to help just because some people even showed up enexpectedly with loads of rocks to help stabilize some of the eroding areas.

If they were truly doing horrible things get better pictures maybe a shot of the plates or a face or something.

So far the pics looks like a tree stump in the lochness and your calling it a monster.

I am sure they were loud I'm sure they were rude but did they stay on the trail did they chop down trees did they run over ilegal bypass road blocks we worked so hard to build?

Get out and be one of the good people on the trail.

I'm not condoning these guys stupidity or severe drunkeness, but if you let that one incedent ruin your trip that is to bad. When was the last time you went to a public campground and you had the frat boys from the city, camp three spaces down getting drunk and cranking music till 2a.m.? Fortunately since I discovered wheeling about seven years ago, I don't have to camp at "public" campgrounds, however that doesn't mean all campgrounds or campground people are bad and should be shutdown. I do agree that in recent years the sluice has somewhat turned into a derilick fest, however I don't think everyone up there is "white trash". Camping at the sluice is like camping on the freeway, then yelling at the cars because they are too loud. Once again I am not condoning rude behavior, but you have to expect that no matter where you go, unfortunately you are going to have to deal with a few morons otherwise you shouldn't leave the house.

One more thing, even with all the "white trash" and derilicks, I still feel safer up there with everyone than I do in town whith my doors locked.

What I'm reading here is that drunk driving, reckless endangerment, and beating vehicles to death on the Rubicon is [largely] condoned.
That's unfortunate, because it's just that behavior that gets 4x4s banned from trails.

The "It's It's the Sluice Box" or "It's Spider Lake, and party central" is poor justification of this behavior. The Rubicon Trail is utilized by hikers, mountain bikers, and ATVers as well as 4x4s. 4x4 do not "own" the Box and Spider Lake. Everyone should be more respectful of others.
Yes, parties do get wild, particularly on big weekends. It's generally understood (even outside the wheeling community) that the trail will be filled with partiers on those weekends, and the Box will be a zoo. Folks not looking for that type of entertainment should find other places to play during those times. These occasions should be the exception, not the rule. Everyone should be entitled to enjoy every aspect of the trail; not told to stay away if they don't like it. You want public access to this public land, start acting like you're in public, not at a kegger in your backyard.

Just wanted to voice that I do not think it is right to be "drunk off your ass and driving." Personally I don't feel safe driving in that frame of mind, so therefore I do not.

However, you seemed to have passed judgement (again based on what you said and the pictures) upon them from a distance. Your pictures were taken at a distance during daylight hours prior to you having been kept awake by them at night. Without talking to them or anything you passed judgement. If you had you might have found that they were not out there to do anybody any harm, trash the place or anything. But then again you might have went up on them with a bad attitude and got one in return because you had already decided that they were "lowlife scumbags."

I am not justifying in any way shape or form punks on the trail. But this does not appear to be the case. Again I am only going by what is said here and the pictures you have to back your accusations.

This is strange, I feel like I'm not reading the same thread as you Kelly.

Joe's statements of what transpired:

1) As we pull up to the sluice box we see 1 shitbox stock cj blocking the way and 15 or so lowlife drunk scumbags throwing beer cans, yelling obcenities, and trying to manually push this broken down jeep through the sluice.
2)Every single one of them was drunk off thier ass, including the driver. It was simply amazing no one got hurt or killed.
3)For example, they were trying to winch the cj up the side after they gave up. When doing so, about 6 or 7 of them jump behind the jeep and begin to push it up the steep slope. Real fucking smart dipshits. As they took a break to get another beer, the winch cable broke as the jeep rolled backwards 15 feet slamming into the rocks. Unfortunatly they werent still behind it...
4)Later that night they continued to ruin the trip by being obnoxiously loud and blasting repeatedly David Allen Coe songs like "nigger fucker" till 1 am.


By these descriptions of their actions, I'd consider them the "violators/nimcompoops" Del would like to have reported and action taken against (see the link Nasvik provided).
Everthing listed, numbered 1-4 for reference, seems to me to be Joe's statement of the events he witnessed. They also iclude his derogatory comments, which are understandable considering the events "ruined the trip for my party, and anyone other decent human being out there that weekend.", in Joe's words.

I'm at a loss as to how a picture can adequately illustrate someone being drunk off their ass, yelling profanities, or playing "offensive" musical late into the evening.
The final picture BellyDragger posted in the thread clearly shows at least 5 Darwin candidates in training.

A fellow wheeler has come on the forum, stated the facts as he recalls them, and is being painted the bad guy. That's sad. Hopefully Del will be more interested in Joe's information, and someone reading this thread knows these Yahoos and will contact Del to identify them.

Originally posted by locrwln
I was up there also and we had our own set of a$$holes camped next to us that kept the party going to well after midnight. I will give the drunken asses credit (I can't believe I'm doing this) actually the driver of the broke ass CJ, he picked up a lot of the cans after they got through yelling at each other. I definitely will never camp at spider lake again. The shitbirds next to us got yelled at the last time they pulled their're all nighter and there response was "hey you're at the sluice so f--k you!". Real considerate. And you're right this is becoming more and more common, as far as seeing how drunk and how loud you can play your stereo. The group next to us were a bunch of rednecks out of Santa Rosa and were playing their safe "cracker rap" as loud as they could and thinking they were so cool. I tried to talk to them earlier in the day thinking (wrongly) that they would be a little considerate. Sure takes the fun out of it.

I was out at Loon and Ice house that day so it wasn't me you talked to, and it was way cool for your group to help Rock Toy ...The music may have been louder than you liked, but I dont remember talking to anyone from your camp after dark, and I wasn't drunk, some were, but the rigs were parked.

You guys must have forgotten the big white tarp and all the related parts to that junk tent. yeah, thats it. :flipoff2:

I guess we got what we deserve, cause the people who took your camp after you left were shooting guns at little sluice.

Ok, the reason the jeep got to where it was wasn't by good driving or finess. (if you can't tell) It was because all those drunk guys pushed it up over the rocks, ok it was just disgusting to me to see complete disregard for pretty much anything. An open front and rear CJ 5 on 33's has no business in the box and that's pretty much obvious to anyone who's ever been on the trail. But not giving a shit about your rig isn't illigial now is it...

It's just throwing beers around the box, and yelling like "one more for the driver and we'll get this thing though here" is not the way I want to be represented as a 4 wheeler. There were a bunch of hikers over there and crap like this is just cannonfodder to get the trail shut down.

What I don't get is how respected board members here condone this behavior. I didn't see any of these drunken exploits at CNC last year...maybe because half the people there would have kicked your ass's. I love all these people that preach trail conservation then just go "oh well they were just having fun" It's bullshit, I don't care so much about the camp other than that it is a public place and you should have some damn respect for other people. When they ask you to turn it down restarting the song and turning it up isn't the way to handle shit like that.

-Nate

Wait a minute. I'm not "condoning" anything. I think that yes they may have been drunk and rude and anytime I've ever ran across that and it "interfered" with what I'm doing (sleeping) I go talk to them. And all the times I've talked to even the drunkest of individuals ultimatley they quite down.

Extreme drunkedness on the trail, well my opinion is that of save that for camp. But my opinion and what others do is not always the same thing and it's not my position to tell everyone to do what I think is best.

I've seen a lot of people beat their il-equipped vehicles on a lot of different trails. The only thing I can say to this is either they figure it out or they stop showing up on trails cause they don't have a vehicle left.

Basically the root of the problem here is lack of respect for others and the trail. This can be over come with education and maybe an occasional enlightment session. The drinking, well let's just hope that moderation and a sense of responsibility wins in this department. Save the pass out drunk for camp.

Here here MonkeyBoy, many of us who use the trail did not join up for cleanups or workparties yet we "expect" a certain trail status to magically appear overnight. Just like these or other people these things only happen when you work at it. We are at the point that "WE ALL" need to be part of the solution. And if that means educating those who don't even realize that the trails are in peril then that's what we have to do. So next time, rather than do nothing then bitch up a storm after the fact, show some and talk to them, say hey "you know what your doing is making all of us look bad". We need everyone to join up and fight the good fight. And people just turning their backs on it and walking away, IMHO are as guilty as those who are creating the problem. What we do and have IS worth fighting for and if that means going to cleanups, writing letters AND helping spread the word to others on the trails then that's what it takes and IT IS WORTH IT.

So no I'm not condoning rude and drunkedness but that part is strickly heresay and if it was happing and I'd imagine it was, then someone needed to address that issue then and not save it for later. Even if they the offended waited until dawn to crank their music and awake the passed out dead (my personal favorite method) then tell them that you don't appreciate loud music and drunken partiying till all hours of the night just like they don't like it at dawn, then so be it but at least the message was sent. and there was someone to recieve it. Doing it now is preaching to the choir and I don't see anyone here actually saying it's ok or condoning the behaviour.

We are all on the same team and that includes drunken rednecks.

Originally posted by locrwln
I was up there also and we had our own set of a$$holes camped next to us that kept the party going to well after midnight. I will give the drunken asses credit (I can't believe I'm doing this) actually the driver of the broke ass CJ, he picked up a lot of the cans after they got through yelling at each other. I definitely will never camp at spider lake again. The shitbirds next to us got yelled at the last time they pulled their're all nighter and there response was "hey you're at the sluice so f--k you!". Real considerate. And you're right this is becoming more and more common, as far as seeing how drunk and how loud you can play your stereo. The group next to us were a bunch of rednecks out of Santa Rosa and were playing their safe "cracker rap" as loud as they could and thinking they were so cool. I tried to talk to them earlier in the day thinking (wrongly) that they would be a little considerate. Sure takes the fun out of it.

Waaah I slept many nights there where the party went way longer than we made noise. FYI that was our weakest stereo with only one speaker working.

Oh yeah we don't leave trash in our camp. Yeah remember that canopy and poles left in your camp? we picked it up and packed it out.

WTF?!

Sometimes discretion must take the better part of valor if one hopes to live a long and fruitful life. Joe clearly stated they were outnumbered 5 to 1. I'd suggest he probably weighed the offenders drunkedness and personality, and rationalized that counseling these folks on their activities, particularly if they were as lit as he described, would likely wind up in a very negative confrontation.

Joe's group could have assessed the condition/spirit of the other group the following morning, and weighed the risks versus benefits of attempting to educate them at that time.

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with helping keep trails clean... unless you guys now want to ostricize Joe and company for not waiting until the offenders broke camp, then scouting said camp for litter. Drop that crap and keep this on-topic: Joe saw violators and negative-image-promoting yahoos on the trail, and he's here to spread the word.

Advice to you Joe: Most of this group, for some inexplicable reason, isn't wanting to here of this behavior.... Other than because the fact that it occured at everyone's favorite part of the trail, where raucous behavior is condoned and encouraged by nearly all, I have no idea why. I'd suggest following the link Nasvik posted, and provide Del with as much info, photos, license plates as you can.

Originally posted by Belly Dragger
We are all on the same team and that includes drunken rednecks.

Definitely NOT the case!

I used to collect knives, does that put me on the same team as Jack The Ripper???

Face it folks, some people you'll see on the trail, even though they happen to be in/around a 4x4, are NOT part of the family. Their actions should be captured on film, they should be educated IF possible (meaning they'll learn from your talk, and they won't try to kick your ass), and they should be reported.

Originally posted by Rock Toy


I'm not sure who you are but I was the one with the CJ with the broken power steering pump. Your group helped me out with a double-ended barbed fitting.....and some creamer for my wife's coffee. Thank You.

As for your accusations of playing "cracker rap" and saying "hey you're at te sluice so f--k you!", I think you'd better rethink what you are saying. Those "rednecks" were URJB and I was with them that night. The music was quiet and we were by no means drunk and obnoxious. As a matter of fact, I was surprised at how quite and calm they were, having camped and partied with the Pirates in the past. Bottom line is that every group has their own opinion of a good time. For some its camping quietly in the woods and for others, it drinking and listening to music all night. I enjoy both and don't accuse either of ruining my weekend. I KNOW that people party at Spider so if I want to relax and have a quiet weekend, I'll go the Springs.....and you should too.

BTW, you guys left behind a bag of trash, some tent stakes and a tarp. The "rednecks" picked it up and drove it out....
This is some funny shit. When dealing with a "White Trash Drunken Russian" what else do you expect? Hey Sergei, thats a vodkatail name in the making if I ever heard one...:flipoff2:

You know me....white trash drunken Russian. You better keep me off the Trail 'cause I'll ruin your weekend. Keep me of the Lake 'cause I'll ruin your day and take your wife and booze :flipoff2: Whatever :rolleyes:

I too have seen enough. Inconsiderate MORONS....EVERYWHERE. Yes...even in Pirate camp.
Don't dog Kelly too much, for you see she is married to the very kind of person(s) your are discussing here. Case in point.....Buck Island,Sat night....11pm. Said drunk off his jackass leaves his camp(50 yards away) to go to another camp next to mine.
Said jackass goes through my camp stopping to rummage through my food finding leftover dinner.
Said jackass thrashes my "kitchen" by throwing food then eating my corn on the cob and playing "corn darts" by throwing the cobs at and into my Cherokee. All of this while I sleep, or try.
I, from now on will likely only do the Rubicon during the middle of the week or will find another trail to do and be very particular who i wheel with and camp next to.
My vote.....close the trail, because it is getting worse every day not better.

You're saying Lance (aka "said jackass") ate your corn and was throwing cobs at your Heep? :confused:

After much contemplation I tend to think that what these guys did was rude, offensive, possibly damaging to the good image we would all like to create in the publics minds.............but far from illegal or woth taking action over.

I probably wouldnt have approached them either. Maybe a few years ago I would have walked right over and beat the shit outta one of them (usually scares the others into submission) but with a couppla years of aging and a recent death of my roomates brothers lifelong best friend I will no longer do such things...

(Roomates brothers best friend stepped up to plate and told some black guy to go through him if he wanted to fight his buddy. Guy said, "No problem motherfucker" as he calmly pulled out a pistol and tapped 2 rounds into the guys forehead. They had not hand any beef before the incident).

Anyway, I think it would have been good to leave a polite and reasonable note on the windshield the next morning and hoped it would get through to them. Probably not but worht a try maybe...

Originally posted by ROCKLIMO
Said jackass thrashes my "kitchen" by throwing food then eating my corn on the cob and playing "corn darts" by throwing the cobs at and into my Cherokee.

Fawkin' A man...Stop! RockRovers cryin!

--D

Originally posted by TyTy
Maybe a few years ago I would have walked right over and beat the shit outta one of them (usually scares the others into submission)

You think that's the way it works? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Welby


You think that's the way it works? :rolleyes:

No schit, doing that just makes you one of them.

TEX

Originally posted by ROCKLIMO
I too have seen enough. Inconsiderate MORONS....EVERYWHERE.

Now you know why I was heading to the springs on Sat........ Cant even get away from that crap at Buck anymore.:mad:

Originally posted by Rock Toy



BTW, you guys left behind a bag of trash, some tent stakes and a tarp. The "rednecks" picked it up and drove it out....


You go up to the Rubicon around the 4thof July and complain that its to loud and that other people are ruining your trip and you leave trash at the camp site?
1. EVERYBODY knows its a party up there around the 4th.
Especially at the sluice and Spider.
2. Did you leave TRASH at your camp site? :mad: That in my opinion is worse than anything that was done by these so called white trash rednecks.
3. Plan a trip when hundreds of people aren't out there and you will have a nice quiet little outing and I'm sure it will change your mind. That is unless you DID leave trash then :flipoff: and I hope you never come BACK!

Originally posted by TEX


No schit, doing that just makes you one of them.

TEX

Right!, but actually, I was referring to the part where he thought it would scare the others into submission.. Yeah right. A group of drunk guys are hardly gonna be scared by one lone guy, even if he is whoopin' ass. The beer muscles will be on full tilt, and old TyTy would be eating alot of boots.

Originally posted by TyTy
After much contemplation I tend to think that what these guys did was rude, offensive, possibly damaging to the good image we would all like to create in the publics minds.............but far from illegal or woth taking action over.


Actually driving drunk (even on a public trail) IS illegal! Do you ever think before you write?

As for being "worth taking action over" I think that this is definitely worth taking action over. Like others have said, the Rubicon is a multiple use trail and what each and every one of us does represents all four wheelers. These people DO NOT represent me!

People, please do not stop wheeling because of issues like this. We all need to go wheeling MORE to help the responsible wheeler to jackass ratio. :D

Okay, good, I didn't just enter the Twilight Zone!
At least, not alone! :rasta::beer::rasta:

Originally posted by rokryder



You go up to the Rubicon around the 4thof July and complain that its to loud and that other people are ruining your trip and you leave trash at the camp site?
1. EVERYBODY knows its a party up there around the 4th.
Especially at the sluice and Spider.
2. Did you leave TRASH at your camp site? :mad: That in my opinion is worse than anything that was done by these so called white trash rednecks.
3. Plan a trip when hundreds of people aren't out there and you will have a nice quiet little outing and I'm sure it will change your mind. That is unless you DID leave trash then :flipoff: and I hope you never come BACK!

I got news for you.....it isn't just on the 4th, and it isn't just at the box. You didn't happen to camp at buck did you?
I dont have much room to bitch, I was pretty wasted on Mem day at the box. That surely won't happen again.

Originally posted by TyTy
After much contemplation I tend to think that what these guys did was rude, offensive, possibly damaging to the good image we would all like to create in the publics minds.............but far from illegal or woth taking action over.
.....
Anyway, I think it would have been good to leave a polite and reasonable note on the windshield the next morning and hoped it would get through to them. Probably not but worht a try maybe... I don't see talking to someone as taking action. Again I've never had problems with asking people to please be more considerate. And yes I've gone into peoples camps when it's just me and they are 20. It's only going to be a problem if you let it get that way. Yes it's possible that they may have gotten in someone's face but I doubt, or at least hope that no one would get capped because of it. I like the suggestion of leaving a note and maybe if everyone left notes eventually rude, obnoxious and inconsiderate people would begin to see the light. But it's not limited to the 4wd community. Go to a shopping mall and see how many rude people you can find, they are a dime a dozen.

Again I am not defending anyone nor do I think that loud parties till all hours makes for a positive outdoor atmosphere but it's part of the price (for now) when you go to the most popular, busiest and notorious spots. Sure I'd like to see it changed and no I don't see killing them off as a solution. They are part of our community and if more and more people tell others that they don't appreciate excessive drunkedness, loud music and outright rudeness then maybe people will start to come around.

I'm not any different than anyone else, I like to go out into the woods and hear babbling brooks not Brooks and Dunn at 150db. I like to see areas with little evidence of people not mounds of empties and cigarette butts. But until people hear the word and see others doing what they say it's not going to change. So yes, I still say that the best you can do is talk to them even if it means waiting until the buz is gone and telling them your position. But by simply getting pissed off and not saying anything they don't even know you have a problem with what they are doing. We are at a spot where we can either work together (hence the same team comment) or we can let it go and someone else will surely step up and tell us what we can or can't do.

So if you don't want to be confrontational maybe we can generate a little card or flyer that can be left covertly in the night that says, you are part of the problem. Your rights end where mine begin and you crossed into my rights and those around you with reckless abandon. We don't appreciate it and we are working to abolish the rude and inconsiderate actions of all along this trail. Your pictures have been taken and you will be publicly humiliated and chastised on the Internet and any other media we can find. Your kind is either a dying breed or we can kiss the trails good-bye. In the future would you be so kind as to be considerate of those around you and the trails you use. Many people are working hard to keep trails open. We work in work parties and have cleanups. You are invited to join us in our attempt to keep the trails open for all to use.

It's the drunken idiots I read so much about that make me want less and less to ever go ride the Rubicon trail.... :(

Originally posted by Belly Dragger

So if you don't want to be confrontational maybe we can generate a little card or flyer that can be left covertly in the night that says, you are part of the problem. Your rights end where mine begin and you crossed into my rights and those around you with reckless abandon. We don't appreciate it and we are working to abolish the rude and inconsiderate actions of all along this trail. Your pictures have been taken and you will be publicly humiliated and chastised on the Internet and any other media we can find. Your kind is either a dying breed or we can kiss the trails good-bye. In the future would you be so kind as to be considerate of those around you and the trails you use. Many people are working hard to keep trails open. We work in work parties and have cleanups. You are invited to join us in our attempt to keep the trails open for all to use.

Well put Michael!!!:usa: :usa: :usa:

Originally posted by Keith


I got news for you.....it isn't just on the 4th, and it isn't just at the box. You didn't happen to camp at buck did you?
I dont have much room to bitch, I was pretty wasted on Mem day at the box. That surely won't happen again.


I didn't go this weekend.... to many people, to late and to loud and an unreliable heep. We went on a local trail and saw barely anyone. I have been on the 4th the past couple years and had a geat time. Every other time I have gone has been a non holiday weekend though and we have never had a problem. Guess I've just been lucky.

A few more more questions for the guy who started this thread.

Did you try to help out by suggesting proper winching techniques?
Did you offer a hand which in turn could have turned into a chance for you to educate these So called Hooligans?

If you do not at least try to help and or say something to these people who are misbehaving then you might as well be one of them for not trying to make a difference.

Yes it is a good thing that some one actually finally got a picture of something. but what is this horrible something in these pictures.


You said you didn't want to say anything because you were out numbered or something like that.

That tells me you probably had a bad attitude to begin with.

I can approach a group of drunken gun toting idiots in a way that is non threatening and can usually get them to stop firing off into the dark.

My wheeling friends and I have also without saying a word managed to get every one at the sluice to stop what they were doing to pick up all the bits of trash we could find.
we evan had non smokers digging in rock crevices to pick up cigarette buts.

Originally posted by Dirty Harry
Actually driving drunk (even on a public trail) IS illegal! Do you ever think before you write?


Wow, Im glad your on top of the driniking and driving situation there bud... keep up the good work protecting us from all those drunk drivers...

(pic taken from current post in gen 4x4)

Seems to me there are assholes everywhere, not just in 4 wheeling. any time you get a large group of people together there are always a few drunken rednecks acting like shitheads. whether it be on the rubicon, at glamis, the beach, or Disneyland. Assholes are everywhere, and a few even try to participate in our sport, what can ya do :rolleyes:

Dallas

Lake havasu on any given weekend hahaha

I think you might be able to find maybe one drunken redneck asshole on that lake :D

Maybe it's ok because there are drunken women flashing boobies.
That it is OK in these other areas?

Maybe if these so called drunken driving trail wrecking idiots had chicks flashing boobs Mr. Madguy wouldn't have been so angry.

Originally posted by TyTy


Wow, Im glad your on top of the driniking and driving situation there bud... keep up the good work protecting us from all those drunk drivers...


Actually TyTy I would rather protect the keyboard from you but that is hard to do from here.

Unlike some here, I do not raise Fat Bastard to god-like status. He seems like a cool guy, but I will call him, you, and anyone else that drinks and drives a fucking idiot. Be it on the trail on on the road, it is ILLEGAL (hmm, wasn't that your original point?). Save it for camp.

Before I get flamed and someone else mentions these things, I don't know the context of that picture, it could have been after a comp for all I know. Plus, it doesn't show Mike (the driver) drinking, just Lance.

I have only drank and drove (:confused: ) no, drinked and drived:confused:

Anyway, only done this once on a 4wheeler, decided it wasnt a good idea:D:D:D

My point is that I thought we were talking about prosecution in the real world... If you wanna talk about prosecuting them in la la land then you can hire La La the Lawyer and prosecute them for something that is done every day on probably every public trail...

But, when you get done scouring the yellow pages for La La the Lawyer, you come to the realization that these guys may have been assholes, may have been jerks, but didnt do anythng that they are gonna get in any trouble for other than they look like idiots on the internet...

(At least not until they get police with arresting power and firearms out on the trails whcih I am totally for.)

Originally posted by rokryder



You go up to the Rubicon around the 4thof July and complain that its to loud and that other people are ruining your trip and you leave trash at the camp site?
1. EVERYBODY knows its a party up there around the 4th.
Especially at the sluice and Spider.
2. Did you leave TRASH at your camp site? :mad: That in my opinion is worse than anything that was done by these so called white trash rednecks.
3. Plan a trip when hundreds of people aren't out there and you will have a nice quiet little outing and I'm sure it will change your mind. That is unless you DID leave trash then :flipoff: and I hope you never come BACK!

For the record, the 'other' incident locrwln brought up (I was a part of this group) was not over the fourth weekend. This was a few weeks ago in june during tlca’s rubithon which is also the same weekend these guys with the hoodless cj were there.

Locrwln Ya know I’m sorry we pissed you guys off. But I’d rather be know for playing “cracker rap” music on a :rainbow: stereo being loud late while we sat at camp a fire and drank than be know for leaving trash behind. I assumed it probably wasn’t your groups canopy and poles because it was all that was left there. But you are no more right than we are wrong in my eyes if you can leave something that big behind (yours or not) and then turn around and bitch about us.

Originally posted by TyTy
I have only drank and drove (:confused: ) no, drinked and drived:confused:

Anyway, only done this once on a 4wheeler, decided it wasnt a good idea:D:D:D

My point is that I thought we were talking about prosecution in the real world...

Sorry for the misunderstanding TyTy, we are cool. I didn't expect Joe to make a citizen's arrest ;) or anything. Drinking and driving is just one of the things that these guys were apparently doing that "wasn't real bright".

Originally posted by Dirty Harry


Sorry for the misunderstanding TyTy, we are cool. I didn't expect Joe to make a citizen's arrest ;) or anything. Drinking and driving is just one of the things that these guys were apparently doing that "wasn't real bright".

I think we are on the same page (on this issue:D), I reread and I did say "far from illegal" which I meant in more of a general sense rather than strickly legal or not.

KISS KISS, make up:D:D:D:D:D:D

I went to the Embarcadro Center in S.F for 4 of july, I was pissed, people were partying there, and makine niose, I just wanted to walk around, boy was i pissed

See how that sounds?


THe box is a party, always has been always will be, camp elsewhere

Originally posted by welndmn
THe box is a party, always has been always will be, camp elsewhere

And as usual - the drunks ruin it for everyone else... Nice....

Sounds like we need our Government to reinstate Prohibition so nothing gets ruined anymore right DRM?

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
Sounds like we need our Government to reinstate Prohibition so nothing gets ruined anymore right DRM?

I think the point is that if people would just be a little considerate of each other, there'd be no need for the gov't to step in and REALLY phuck things up ;)

TEX

Whooping it up in camp, getting as drunk as you want, having a good time, staying up way late and even keeping everyone awake isn't really harmful.
Driving drunk on the trail, scattering beer cans all over the place while you beat the shiot out of your POS only gives ammo to the greenies who want our trails closed and is harmful to the image of four-wheelers.
Ultimately the deciding factor in whether our trails are closed or not will be the battle for public opinion. When the public is shown example after example of this type of behavior, the public will be convinced that all four-wheelers behave this way. Whether you or I know that's not the case is irrelevant. Whether you or I know that technically no laws are being broken is irrelevant.
As far as Lake Havasu goes, they are cracking down HARD on drunk boating.

Originally posted by welndmn
I went to the Embarcadro Center in S.F for 4 of july, I was pissed, people were partying there, and makine niose, I just wanted to walk around, boy was i pissed


You forgot to mention the part where they made a big ass mess and besides, THOSE people don't represent four wheelers, these guys do! (whether we like it or not)

Some people were brought up differently then us they do not care or think of others at the moment.

As I mentioned before and others have also mentioned.

These people need to be educated.

Standing back and staring at them with an angry old man look is not going to help these people feed of of this stuff.
Think their parents ever gave them the good kind of attention?
Probably not.

be a good example and try to get them to participate.

It's amazing how much more attention you gahter from these uneducated people on the trail when they see you working hard to do a good job.

If they show it or not they will respect the person picking up shit. and doing good then they have for the grumpy old angry at the world guy sitting off in the distance aiming a camera at them.

Get up off your ass and try to show them the right way if that doesn't work then get mad then thump some heads.

Originally posted by TEX


I think the point is that if people would just be a little considerate of each other, there'd be no need for the gov't to step in and REALLY phuck things up ;)

TEX

Bingo :cool2:

Originally posted by TyTy


Wow, Im glad your on top of the driniking and driving situation there bud... keep up the good work protecting us from all those drunk drivers...

(pic taken from current post in gen 4x4)

I SURE AS FAWK HOPE YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO BE FUNNY HERE POSTING THIS PIC IN THIS THREAD!!!:mad3:

Mike and Lance were NOT driving..and at this point the comp was over that they were at and they were spectators....:flipoff2:

Edit: Setting the facts strait!

Originally posted by withamc
Whooping it up in camp, getting as drunk as you want, having a good time, staying up way late and even keeping everyone awake isn't really harmful.

You think?


What about the people who are being kept up late? Who gave the knuckleheads MORE of a right to enjoy the trail their way than the people who are trying to sleep at 2 in the morning?

That's the problem with drunks - they assume they have more rights than everyone else...

Example:

2 groups meet on the trail and decide to pitch camp and the normal camping spot. Group A pitch camp, cook dinner, chill out, then head to bed. Group B gets drunk, and stays drunk till the wee hours of the morning - playing loud music, keep the other goup up, etc.

PLEASE tell me who or what gives Group B the right to ruin the weekend for Group A? Last time I checked, Group A has just as much right to expect to enjoy the weekend the way THEY want to enjoy it...

This crap about "it is a party up there so deal with it" is he exact SELFISH mentality I am talking about :mad3:

Originally posted by DRM


You think? :mad3:
I'm talking about it from the perspective of public opinion and trail closures. Just because I don't drink and and want to go to sleep at a reasonable hour doesn't mean others do. Lot's of people go wheeling and enjoy whooping it up afterwards. Sure, I wish they were considerate of others. Maybe that should be addressed in the "How to deal with inconsiderate neighbors in camp" thread. But the fact they're partying and making noise isn't going to get the trail closed.

Originally posted by DRM




Example:

2 groups meet on the trail and decide to pitch camp and the normal camping spot. Group A pitch camp, cook dinner, chill out, then head to bed. Group B gets drunk, and stays drunk till the wee hours of the morning - playing loud music, keep the other goup up, etc.

I had guys across the hall from me in college like group B. I tolerated the weekend parties, but on a Wednesday night? Worst part was they'd shut down around 1 a.m., leave, then come back in around 3 to start it all back up. And running the stereo full blast would have been okay by me in the event of an actual party, but usually it was just the 3 of 'em in there hammered on whatever was on sale at Dillon's.

Our solution was to get up at 5:00 am to go fishing, drive around to their side of the apartment, and see if my new exhaust system could rattle their windows :D

For a camping situation, I'd say banging pots & pans around at daybreak might be an interesting way for the drunks to wake up ;) Perhaps then they'd recognize that while they may have been within their legal "rights" to party all night, they certainly had no NEED to be so OBNOXIOUSLY LOUD. Then again, it'd probably just go over their heads ;)

TEX

Group B gets drunk, and stays drunk till the wee hours of the morning - playing loud music, keep the other goup up, etc when group B does this to me, i just warm up the old cold blooded dodge 360 first thing in the morning when everyone else around is awake and there still sleepin. :D

Prevention!!

Not Retaliation.

This pic is our down town after the UofA lost the final-four
These cops blinded a kid by shooting him in the head with a beam bag, car got rolled, motorhoms got se ton fire, legs were broken by police. Retaliation againse drunken College kids is no GOOD.

the Kids,

Prevention:

Originally posted by Rocksie


I SURE AS FAWK HOPE YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO BE FUNNY HERE POSTING THIS PIC IN THIS THREAD!!!:mad3:

Mike and Lance were NOT driving..and at this point the comp was over that they were at and they were spectators....:flipoff2:

Edit: Setting the facts strait!

Yes, it was sarcastically posted cause I see these guys as no threat...

But, maybe the fact that the competition was over makes it worse... I mean, they all had to get home in something right?

I'm just pointing out that drinking on trails is widly accepted all over the world.

:D

Originally posted by welndmn
The box is a party, always has been always will be, camp elsewhere

WRONG!! Are you new!!?? It has become the "party" area with the influx of younger self centered pricks that seem to be everywhere these days.

Originally posted by DRM
Example:

2 groups meet on the trail and decide to pitch camp and the normal camping spot. Group A pitch camp, cook dinner, chill out, then head to bed. Group B gets drunk, and stays drunk till the wee hours of the morning - playing loud music, keep the other goup up, etc.

PLEASE tell me who or what gives Group B the right to ruin the weekend for Group A? Last time I checked, Group A has just as much right to expect to enjoy the weekend the way THEY want to enjoy it...

This crap about "it is a party up there so deal with it" is he exact SELFISH mentality I am talking about :mad3:

PERFECT example. Even though I am the type that stays up drinking, but quietly:D

I think ya'll are sort of agreeing. DRM you are right, group A has the dominant right to quiet (if you ask me). Group B is totally in the wrong. ***BUT*** if you KNOW group B is a group B and continue to camp by them when there is spots available with all Group A types, then who is the idiot?:D

Originally posted by TyTy


PERFECT example. Even though I am the type that stays up drinking, but quietly:D

I think ya'll are sort of agreeing. DRM you are right, group A has the dominant right to quiet (if you ask me). Group B is totally in the wrong. ***BUT*** if you KNOW group B is a group B and continue to camp by them when there is spots available with all Group A types, then who is the idiot?:D

So now Group A are "idiots" for wanting to enjoy the good camping spot, and must now be forced to move on to a second camping spot that is not as good simply because Group B took over? Niiiice....

TyTy - that is exactly the point. Group B is wrong and Group A has no choice but to get the shaft :mad3:

Originally posted by TyTy


I'm just pointing out that drinking on trails is widly accepted all over the world.

:D

Its not acceptable to me, especially on any trail that I am on! I think it is only acceptable to those that do drink on the trail.

:beer: is for camp and camp only. I could care less if my club members drink at camp as long as they don't ruin it for the rest of us trying to sleep and are sobered up by the time we head off in the morning.

I didnt know the spots were unequal. Then yes, if group A wants to enjoy the better spot then they should be able to fo sure.:smokin:

Originally posted by Pavemen


Its not acceptable to me, especially on any trail that I am on! I think it is only acceptable to those that do drink on the trail.

:beer: is for camp and camp only. I could care less if my club members drink at camp as long as they don't ruin it for the rest of us trying to sleep and are sobered up by the time we head off in the morning.

I agree here too. I just dont think everyone sees it the way we do:D:D:D

Originally posted by Aggro

WRONG!! Are you new!!?? It has become the "party" area with the influx of younger self centered pricks that seem to be everywhere these days.


Too true. The prick attitude seems to be on the rise on the trail. That'd be topic for a separate thread.... folks used to be much friendlier; now alot more jerkoffs with attitudes, tough to get a 'hello' or even a nod out of some of them, if they even look your way. I really love the early season, late season, and mid-week runs; get to miss out on most of that crap.

Originally posted by TyTy


Yes, it was sarcastically posted cause I see these guys as no threat...

But, maybe the fact that the competition was over makes it worse... I mean, they all had to get home in something right?

I'm just pointing out that drinking on trails is widly accepted all over the world.

:D

In the case of that picture those guys are done for the day after an event. Why do they have to be the drivers? How do you know they aren't staying in some comfy cabin within walking distance on the lake right next to the event?

A picture out of context can be used to say lot's of things. I bet I could take a picture of someone at a park and make it look like a trail too.

Originally posted by Steve N


In the case of that picture those guys are done for the day after an event. Why do they have to be the drivers? How do you know they aren't staying in some comfy cabin within walking distance on the lake right next to the event?

A picture out of context can be used to say lot's of things. I bet I could take a picture of someone at a park and make it look like a trail too.

Very true. I wasent/ arent trying to say anything bad about those guys. Just trying to point out that drinking on trails seems to be widely accepted/ over looked/ condoned.

Nothing more, nothing less:D

I'm starting to think it's a little interesting that the person who started this thread hasn't answered up about leaving that trash behind. What's up with that, let's hear your side of the story;)

I again state that I don't condone drunken stupid behavior either.

This is not to contradict myself nor justify any stupid actions: But it IS well know that the "Sluice Box" area is basically party central on the 4th of July weekend. That, again I state, is precisely why we do not want to camp around there.

This known knowledge that I state goes right along with people wanting to go on Jeepers Jamboree and expect just a bunch of quite jeepers hanging out. Not going to happen. Jeepers Jamboree is too well know as one huge party weekend.

I am sorry if it seemed like I justified or agree with stupid behavior, that was not my intent through my words.

Originally posted by withamc
Whooping it up in camp, getting as drunk as you want, having a good time, staying up way late and even keeping everyone awake isn't really harmful.
Driving drunk on the trail, scattering beer cans all over the place while you beat the shiot out of your POS only gives ammo to the greenies who want our trails closed and is harmful to the image of four-wheelers.

One of the only logical posts in this entire thread....

First off, being piss drunk and driving is not acceptable. I do not do it, and I don't like other people doing it. I save it for camp. But if I want to get piss ass drunk in my camp, and enjoy myself, I will. If someone asks me to turn down my radio, I will. If myself and a few other of my club members want to play "corn darts" with another club member's rig, we will. :flipoff2:

"OUR BEER DRINKING TEAM HAS A ROCKCRAWLING PROBLEM" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Originally posted by TyTy


Wow, Im glad your on top of the driniking and driving situation there bud... keep up the good work protecting us from all those drunk drivers...

(pic taken from current post in gen 4x4)

And what the fawk is with posting this picture in this thread? Am I sitting in a driver's seat? NO, I am NOT. I am sitting on top of an ice chest in OKLAHOMA AFTER AN EVENT, DUMB FUCK!

Originally posted by TyTy


Yes, it was sarcastically posted cause I see these guys as no threat...

But, maybe the fact that the competition was over makes it worse... I mean, they all had to get home in something right?

I'm just pointing out that drinking on trails is widly accepted all over the world.

:D

You're a fucking idiot dude....

Originally posted by Steve N

How do you know they aren't staying in some comfy cabin within walking distance on the lake right next to the event?


Damn dude, how'd you know? :D

Originally posted by 4x4Grrl
I again state that I don't condone drunken stupid behavior either.

This is not to contradict myself nor justify any stupid actions: But it IS well know that the "Sluice Box" area is basically party central on the 4th of July weekend. That, again I state, is precisely why we do not want to camp around there.

This known knowledge that I state goes right along with people wanting to go on Jeepers Jamboree and expect just a bunch of quite jeepers hanging out. Not going to happen. Jeepers Jamboree is too well know as one huge party weekend.

I am sorry if it seemed like I justified or agree with stupid behavior, that was not my intent through my words.

Agreed 100%:) Kinda like going to Disneyland and complaining about all of the kids.

Originally posted by Lance
If someone asks me to turn down my radio, I will.

But, I'm guessing not everyone is that courteous. Thus, the whole reason this thread was started ;)

TEX

well i will admit to drinking on the trail, hell i do it all the time. but i am never a rude dumb fuck, like i have run into from clubs with strict no drinking policies. hell i help out everyone i can. i would think the guy bitching would have pulled them out, instead of crying about it later. could have saved alot of time and trouble. and i was right beside lance when he was drinking that beer in oklahoma, no one was drunk, just thirsty. it was a long hot day and they needed a beer. mike

Originally posted by TEX


But, I'm guessing not everyone is that courteous. Thus, the whole reason this thread was started ;)

TEX

I guess the only thing I'm trying to say is that a loud radio at 1:00am isn't going to get the trail closed down. It may piss someone off, but it will never close the trail down. Running over bushes, trees, littering, drunk driving and hurting someone can/will close down the trail. That's all. ;)

p.s. - I don't have a radio in my rig. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Lance


I guess the only thing I'm trying to say is that a loud radio at 1:00am isn't going to get the trail closed down. It may piss someone off, but it will never close the trail down. Running over bushes, trees, littering, drunk driving and hurting someone can/will close down the trail. That's all. ;)


Agreed. It's still rude though to play it loud at 1:00 a.m. Mind you, I think it would be just as rude to ask someone to turn their radio OFF, but there's no reason is has to be LOUD unless there are hotties there shedding clothing to the beat of the music ;) But no, it's not the main problem - the trash & the damage are.

p.s. - I don't have a radio in my rig. :flipoff2:

I haven't had a functional radio in any of my wheeling rigs since 1990 :flipoff2:

TEX

Originally posted by TEX

unless there are hotties there shedding clothing to the beat of the music

It's been known to happen in Pirate camp. ;)

Originally posted by Lance
It's been known to happen in Pirate camp. ;)

For autographs? :flipoff2:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :D:D:D:D:D


Mine wont come off! i still have Mikes.lances and kevins on me! LOL

The people in the photo's look like a bunch of kids. Maybe they just don't know any better. Maybe they were approachable and maybe they weren't. Think about how you were when you were immature and stupid. ;)

I probably wouldn't approach any large group of drunks especially when my family is with me. Eventually all these dumbasses will grow up but, unfortunately there probably won't be any trails left for them to take their kids on. (assuming that they DO hit puberty at some point in their life)

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

Originally posted by suburban grl
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :D:D:D:D:D
Mine wont come off! i still have Mikes.lances and kevins on me! LOL

LOL!!! Yeah I had to ask the ol'man how he felt about having another man's name across my back...HAHAHAHAHA...
The good part is he kinda liked the look of me having something in my lower back (not the name part) But he said he would pay for me to get a tat there if I wanted one. Fully getting it!!!!




















:flipoff2: Official Thread Hijack Crew :flipoff2: Suck It!!!

That would awesome! i love the one i have on my back...


FULLY gettin it! :D:D

Originally posted by Lance
I guess the only thing I'm trying to say is that a loud radio at 1:00am isn't going to get the trail closed down. It may piss someone off, but it will never close the trail down. Running over bushes, trees, littering, drunk driving and hurting someone can/will close down the trail. That's all. ;)

No, but the kind of person who would get wasted and blare their radio on full blast at 1am IS *generally* the kind of person who IS running over bushes, littering, driving drunk, etc.... and I think that is the point being made.

Originally posted by Rocksie


:shaking:WHAT EVER!!!


And you would claim it is *generally* the quiet family that stays sober and goes to sleep at 9:30 pm are the ones driving drunk, littering, and generally getting the trails closed down? :rolleyes:


I can GUARANTEE if NOBODY drank on the trail, 90% of the bad image we 4 wheelers have would be GONE, and would would not be losing trails anywhere near the rate we are now.

Now you may not have a problem with *responsible* drinking, but *responsible* drinkers are the VAST MINORITY.

Originally posted by DRM



And you would claim it is *generally* the quiet family that stays sober and goes to sleep at 9:30 pm are the ones driving drunk, littering, and generally getting the trails closed down? :rolleyes:


I can GUARANTEE if NOBODY drank on the trail, 90% of the bad image we 4 wheelers have would be GONE, and would would not be losing trails anywhere near the rate we are now.

Now you may not have a problem with *responsible* drinking, but *responsible* drinkers are the VAST MINORITY.

I see your point.*ouch*

Originally posted by Rocksie


I see your point.*ouch*


lol ;)


The bad part is, I think people SHOULD be able to have a drink, or get reasonably rowdy in camp at the end of the day... This is America, right?

But sadly, we all know that for ever *responsible* drinker, there are 4 MILLION *bad drunks* who will ruin it all.

So over the years, I have been forced to start taking more of a "zero tolerance" attitude for drinking on the trail...

And that sucks for those who can have a few :beer: and not cause a single problem :(

Every run in or encounter that I have had with jerks and people abusing the trail have been with people drinking while driving around out there and are drunk (or in process or getting there). Anyone with alcohol in their bodies on the trail has no business being a driver, spotter, someone helping in winching/recovery or any other work. This is stuff that if done wrong can kill yourself or someone else. Those morons in the pictures have beers cans sitting by them as they are pushing the Jeep uphill. Being drunk you don't always have the best footing and balance. So then oops they let go of the Jeep because they stumble or just do something goofy because they are drunk. Next thing you know it rolls over your buddy and he's dead- or maybe there's a family waiting at the bottom and it nails them.

My opinion here might not be popular and heck I might be thought of as stupid or an idiot. I can live with that. There should be no drinking on the trails PERIOD. You get caught you get the same treatment you would if you were driving around in the city drunk. If you want to drink save it for the camp. I have no issue with drinking in camp. If you wanna be loud, hey I can live with that, just at some point realize the trail is not yours alone and others are out there to use it so some common sense should come into play. You can make a mess in camp, just clean it up when you leave. There's no reason people can't have their idea of fun when wheeling. But there are reasonable limits and should be a few rules to be followed. It's not to kill peoples fun and ruin their good times. It's to make sure people are safe and one group doesn't wreck it for everyone. It's too bad like David said that those who aren't responsible have wrecked for the ones who are. But that seems to be more and more common in life in general not just wheeling.... idiots take a good thing and ruin it and then everyone pays the price for their lack of common sense.... :( :(

Wheeling and partying are done world wide. Humm I wonder what these wheelers in Israel are doing with that Hookah!

http://www.discoweb.org/joybiran/j16.jpg

Originally posted by Old Scout
Wheeling and partying are done world wide. Humm I wonder what these wheelers in Israel are doing with that Hookah!

http://www.discoweb.org/joybiran/j16.jpg
Looks like they're camped for the night. Doesn't look like they're gonna make life miserable for the people around them. The ganja will probably wear off by morning. I don't see a problem, do you?

Originally posted by withamc

Looks like they're camped for the night. Doesn't look like they're gonna make life miserable for the people around them. The ganja will probably wear off by morning. I don't see a problem, do you?

nope:smokin: :smokin:

But some may not like it down wind;)

Originally posted by Old Scout
[B]Wheeling and partying are done world wide. Humm I wonder what these wheelers in Israel are doing with that Hookah!



I wish more people would bring their Hookah's, they'd be to busy eating, listening to some floyd(just loud enough to get them thingking), and taking weed naps.

How often do you run into a rowdy stoner?

Originally posted by BornInAJeep


How often do you run into a rowdy stoner?

Why do you think they call it DOPE:D :smokin:

Originally posted by Old Scout


Why do you think they call it DOPE:D :smokin:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal [/B]

Your opinion, like mine, Joe's, and a few others on this thread, do appear to be the minority opinion. Very, very unfortunate.


I'm reminded of a "wearing helmets on the trail" thread. I don't agree with wearing helmets while recreational wheeling, and I posted as such on that thread. I recall being lambasted by some of the posters here, who seem to be condoning the actions of the jackasses Joe' reported about. So, it's okay to be a reckless drunken endangerement to self and others, as long as you wear a helmet while doing it?!?!:rolleyes:
Yeah, I'm cross-threading topics, sue me (get in line!)! :rasta:
Seems extremely hypocrytical. I'm not trying to start sh*t with this post, I'm just very taken aback by the lax (and in some cases, belligerent) response to a dangerous, reckless situation.

Originally posted by cbassett




Advice to you Joe: Most of this group, for some inexplicable reason, isn't wanting to here of this behavior.... Other than because the fact that it occured at everyone's favorite part of the trail, where raucous behavior is condoned and encouraged by nearly all, I have no idea why. I'd suggest following the link Nasvik posted, and provide Del with as much info, photos, license plates as you can.

Thanks Chris,
I know you and I knew this kind of shit would piss you off too. I highly doubt I will run the Con again, at least this summer unless it is midweek. Getting sick of that trail anyways.

Just to Clarify...

being loud isnt illegal or even wrong. but when it is 1 am and we ask them to turn thier music down and we get the finger from across the lake.... Well lets just say I wish I had a belt fed weapon at the time, and still :)

The other campers tried the same with similar results. The unfortunate people right next to them had several kids with them and they were not happy especially about the music they were playing. For another group it was thier first weekend out on the Con, and as they claimed, the last.

Again, this wasnt on the 4th of July and it was fairly uncrowded by rubicon standards.

I should have done more as far as taking plate numbers etc, but to tell you the truth I was sickened and I just didnt give a shit about anything but getting out of there.

For those who ripped me for my derogatory statements towards them... well i still stand by them entirerly. They were and are lowlife, scumbags with negative human worth.

At least I got to go back to my nice house and job, while they got to go back to thier trailers and thier job at blockbuster. So I guess it kinda evens out.

Originally posted by Joe Roen


Thanks Chris,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.......go back to my nice house and job, while they got to go back to thier trailers and thier job at blockbuster. So I guess it kinda evens out.

I can see where your coming from Joe - it can be frustrating when there are drunken rowdies not conforming to your idea of a good time :rolleyes: I have still noticed how glibly you pass over the questions about the garbage, tarp etc. you and your group left behind.

It is this behaviour that will close the trails down, not being a rowdy ass camper who party's late into the night on the busiest, biggest party weekend of the year.

Uuuuh, I didn't start this thread, and yes we were wrong for not taking the white canopy thing, it was there when we got there. For the record at about 1215 am I flashed my headlights at them and they promptly moved there truck and gave me the bird (middle finger for the lay person:D ). Also if everyone around their camp can hear the words clearly then I would say that the music is too loud. With that kind of music someone across the valley should only be able to hear the bass, not the words. Also I can sleep through a lot of noise but when the music is loud enough to wake me up then it's pretty loud. I personally don't drink, that's my choice. Some members of my group do, but they wait until camp is set up and the surrounding camps would never know it. I just was very upset with the music level, I don't care if you want to get falling down drunk that's your business, just try and keep the music noise down to a dull roar. I or no one else is asking you not to party and have a good time just try and remember that there are other people on the trail who may not appreciate hearing your music. Again just for the record the driver of the CJ did pick up alot of the cans but not all of them and none of his buddies did. Sorry for sounding like a preacher, I'm sorry, if I hurt anyone's feeling's by calling them rednecks and calling their music "cracker rap" like I said the music level pissed me off and I vented at the beginning of this thread. Can't we all just get along?

Originally posted by Joe Roen The other campers tried the same with similar results. The unfortunate people right next to them had several kids with them and they were not happy especially about the music they were playing. For another group it was thier first weekend out on the Con, and as they claimed, the last.

Again, this wasnt on the 4th of July and it was fairly uncrowded by rubicon standards.

I am sorry that I said something about it. After re-reading it I did see that you DID infact type that it was a few weeks ago and not on the 4th weekend. I would probably be very upset if I asked them to be reasonable and they weren't very nice about it.

Again, Joe and everyone else that have responded to my remarks "I" do NOT condone assinine actions.

Originally posted by Joe Roen I should have done more as far as taking plate numbers etc, but to tell you the truth I was sickened and I just didnt give a shit about anything but getting out of there.

That is what we are trying to get people to do. If you can take a picture of the License plate number with proof of bad actions and send them to Del Albright of the FOTR, he will forward that the the authorities.

We missed out because I did not have a camera this weekend because some young guy decided he was going to make a bypass through the bushes when there were already the main road (not at all a hard area) and a small bypass that was previously made. What the heck with that. That is one of the MAIN reasons the Eco-Freaks are trying to close the trails down. That and littering.

Originally posted by BudMunny


I can see where your coming from Joe - it can be frustrating when there are drunken rowdies not conforming to your idea of a good time :rolleyes: I have still noticed how glibly you pass over the questions about the garbage, tarp etc. you and your group left behind.

It is this behaviour that will close the trails down, not being a rowdy ass camper who party's late into the night on the busiest, biggest party weekend of the year.

Hey Genious, they were refering to a different group. Why dont you learn how to read then maybe you can speak with the grownups.

My policy has been and always will be, leave your camp cleaner then where you found it.


I didn't have a tarp with me...

Originally posted by Joe Roen


My policy has been and always will be, leave your camp cleaner then where you found it.


I didn't have a tarp with me...

My bad on that one Joe :emb: After three pages of posts in two days I got you confused with someone else:emb: I guess that shoes me for calling someone out before making sure I had the right person :beer:

Originally posted by Mustard Dog


My bad on that one Joe :emb: After three pages of posts in two days I got you confused with someone else:emb: I guess that shoes me for calling someone out before making sure I had the right person :beer:

Com Awn Dog...just be nice to everyone...;)

i rarely drink... it's all about :smokin:


if only everyone had their head on straight like me. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by 4x4Grrl


I am sorry that I said something about it. After re-reading it I did see that you DID infact type that it was a few weeks ago and not on the 4th weekend. I would probably be very upset if I asked them to be reasonable and they weren't very nice about it.

Again, Joe and everyone else that have responded to my remarks "I" do NOT condone assinine actions.



That is what we are trying to get people to do. If you can take a picture of the License plate number with proof of bad actions and send them to Del Albright of the FOTR, he will forward that the the authorities.

We missed out because I did not have a camera this weekend because some young guy decided he was going to make a bypass through the bushes when there were already the main road (not at all a hard area) and a small bypass that was previously made. What the heck with that. That is one of the MAIN reasons the Eco-Freaks are trying to close the trails down. That and littering.

I was rooting around and one of the pictures I took actually has the license plate of the jeep in it and one of the ones I posted shows the driver with the beer... Check the links :


Driver with the blue hat in middle

http://community.webshots.com/photo/43054815/43056056QPJsOq

License Plate

http://community.webshots.com/photo/43054815/43159907rTqdmA

Hope this helps.

Joe Roen - there are others of us who are in full agreement with your sentiments. Maybe someone can make out the license plate and get somewhere with that info

As for MudBunny - tell her to go back to trolling ChitChat, that is about all she is good for.



As for the trail drinking portion of this thread - I don't see any resolution any time soon as long as there is alcohol anywhere near the trail :(

Ya know Dave, we have this conversation every year. You know it, I know it... those who've been here for a while know it. And every year you end up espousing prohibition on the trails and in our camp sites. I dont buy it. Never will. Irresponsible jackasses there may be if'n I want to sit and drink a beer or 10 in my camp without bothering you what the hell difference does it make.

Joe,
Go here with your info:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61854

Originally posted by DRM
Joe Roen - there are others of us who are in full agreement with your sentiments. Maybe someone can make out the license plate and get somewhere with that info

As for MudBunny - tell her to go back to trolling ChitChat, that is about all she is good for.



As for the trail drinking portion of this thread - I don't see any resolution any time soon as long as there is alcohol anywhere near the trail :(

Thanks DRM.

I agree about the alchohol. I love to have some drinks at the end of the day at the campfire, but some people take it too far.

Originally posted by Lance


Damn dude, how'd you know? :D


:flipoff2:


I thought you'd apreciate that. :D

DRM take the booze away and these people will find other things to do.

Very similar to the gun arguement that never seems to end.

Guns kill people.

Booze makes you play your music loud and makes those having less fun mad.

BUZZZZZ wrong

People kill people we all know that.

And...

I can bring a bunch of my friends up to the trail next time who don't drink Don't do drugs (haven't for many many years)
And I guarantee they will bug the shit out of every one and keep them up all night.

mike you know the people I am talking about :D

That's the point, drink beer in camp and keep the damn music down and everyone will be happy.

If you have a bunch of drunk idiots running up and down your street on dirtbikes (see the guys wearing dirtbike boots in the pic, yeah they were tearing all over the hills on em) blasting loud music you'd be pretty pissed off, and the cops would show up.

Just on the trail don't drink and drive, wait for camp and be somewhat sane. Basically just use some judgement, christ people it's not that hard, clean up your shit and don't give greenies a reason to shut down the trails.

-Nate

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal
others are out there to use it so some common sense should come into play

If it was that COMMON, don't you think more people would use it? :rasta:

Originally posted by mike
Ya know Dave, we have this conversation every year. You know it, I know it... those who've been here for a while know it. And every year you end up espousing prohibition on the trails and in our camp sites. I dont buy it. Never will. Irresponsible jackasses there may be if'n I want to sit and drink a beer or 10 in my camp without bothering you what the hell difference does it make.

What difference does it make? :shaking:


Reminds me of the kitchen at our office at work. There is a "wash your own dishes" policy in our office, yet every day there are dirty dishes in the sink at work. Now I have personally walked around to EVERY person in the office and asked if they washed their dishes, and you know - EVERY ONE of them claimed they had already washed their dishes... Guess the dish fairy mush have done it :p

Point is = EVERYONE thinks THEY are "responsible drinkers" - but if they were - we wouldn't be having this discussion year after year, now would we?

Is complete prohibition the perfect asnwer? Hardly. But as long as everyone claims they aren't THEIR dirty dishes - the only way to make sure THIS problem is solved is to toss all the dishes in the trash...


Maybe one day you will see the point :(

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
DRM take the booze away and these people will find other things to do.

Agreed... so what do you suggest to solve the problem?

volunteer open container and drunk check points?:usa:

Originally posted by 4x4Grrl
We missed out because I did not have a camera this weekend because some young guy decided he was going to make a bypass through the bushes when there were already the main road (not at all a hard area) and a small bypass that was previously made. What the heck with that. That is one of the MAIN reasons the Eco-Freaks are trying to close the trails down. That and littering.

I don't know which group it was you are talking about off the main trail, but suspect that it may have been ours. The gentleman I was wheeling with (dark blue 93 toyota pickup with a canoe on top) took what he later claimed was an old, and accepted alternate route. I was in the process of taking the route that appeared to be the encouraged one (didn't appear blocked like his route did), when he snapped his steering, and wound up in a precarious situation (almost rolling down the hill, with his pregnant wife in the truck) At this point I climbed up, to be able to safely get his truck to a point where it could be repaired. I pointed out the log at the bottom to him, and suggested that we were on a blocked off bypass, he said he hadn't noticed, as the log was between two trails up the hill, and he thought it had been part of a felled tree that was pulled off of the trail, not a roadblock. The other end of this spur was not blocked in any way. If it is supposed to be a blocked trail, if someone would let me know, next time one of us is up there we will make sure that it is fully blocked at both ends, so that no one else can error. Location wise it was the hill that comes shortly after little sluice when outbound towards loon. the trail goes through the dirt "trough" and turns hard left, winding around the shoulder of the hill, this route is a slightly softer left, and goes straight up the hill (which was one of the reasons I suspected it of being closed, as straight up climbs cause erosion probelems)

Originally posted by Pavemen


If it was that COMMON, don't you think more people would use it? :rasta:
No kidding.... it's not that common anymore.... should be called uncommon sense to be more fitting...

Originally posted by CrazyHorse


Location wise it was the hill that comes shortly after little sluice when outbound towards loon. the trail goes through the dirt "trough" and turns hard left, winding around the shoulder of the hill, this route is a slightly softer left, and goes straight up the hill (which was one of the reasons I suspected it of being closed, as straight up climbs cause erosion probelems)

I can testify that this section of trail has been around for at least 12-14 years.

Rich

Originally posted by ashmanjeepXJ
Prevention:

So.... the guy kicking in the windshield brought along the ski mask in case he got cold?? I call Bullshit. If you decide to join in on a riot 'cause your fawkin' team lost, you succumb too easily to peer pressure:shaking:

To not expect police retaliation is even more stupid.

Originally posted by DRM


What difference does it make? :shaking:


Reminds me of the kitchen at our office at work. There is a "wash your own dishes" policy in our office, yet every day there are dirty dishes in the sink at work. Now I have personally walked around to EVERY person in the office and asked if they washed their dishes, and you know - EVERY ONE of them claimed they had already washed their dishes... Guess the dish fairy mush have done it :p

Point is = EVERYONE thinks THEY are "responsible drinkers" - but if they were - we wouldn't be having this discussion year after year, now would we?

Is complete prohibition the perfect asnwer? Hardly. But as long as everyone claims they aren't THEIR dirty dishes - the only way to make sure THIS problem is solved is to toss all the dishes in the trash...


Maybe one day you will see the point :(

What difference does it make? You get all hot and pissed just thinking about little old sinner me pouring alcohol into my body and desicrating it or something? If Im not bothering you it obviousl don't make a difference. Are there assholes? Yep, we've agreed on that. Does this happen EVERY YEAR at spider? Well, at least the last 3 to 5 years. Would I go up on the weekend of the 4th? Nope. Why? Cause I dont want to deal with it. Last time I ran into anyone drunk and disorderly up there they were armed, cussing, and dragging a poor SJ along the trail. Oh wah. I lived, Im over it. Did it ruin my trip? Ruined about an hour of it. Oh gee. :shaking: In short, I see your point David, it wasn't all that difficult to grasp. Doesnt mean I condone the behavior. I would have said something about it. Im quit good at making people stop, especially drunk people. And throwing all the dishes away is a bit to facist for my tastes, sorry. my advice, learn to laugh at assholes

If myself and a few other of my club members want to play "corn darts" with another club member's rig, we will.

Fuck an A!!!

This thread is gettin' silly!
It seems so simple to me - 1) have some consideration for your fellow wheelers and 2) don't do shit to give the greenies ammo.

Originally posted by withamc
This thread is gettin' silly!
It seems so simple to me - 1) have some consideration for your fellow wheelers and 2) don't do shit to give the greenies ammo.

Well said!

CONSIDERATION is the key here, can't we all have fun? I'm just starting the "wheelin' " thing, I personally do not want to see the Con closed down!!

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal
Every run in or encounter that I have had with jerks and people abusing the trail have been with people drinking while driving around out there and are drunk (or in process or getting there). (

Same here at the mud races. Now, I won't EVEN try to say that everyone I've seen drink at the races has caused a problem. That wouldn't be true at all. BUT, everyone who's caused a problem has been drinking. So, that's why we had to ban the booze. Things have been way nicer ever since.

TEX

Originally posted by DRM
Reminds me of the kitchen at our office at work. There is a "wash your own dishes" policy in our office, yet every day there are dirty dishes in the sink at work. Now I have personally walked around to EVERY person in the office and asked if they washed their dishes, and you know - EVERY ONE of them claimed they had already washed their dishes... Guess the dish fairy mush have done it :p

If everyone claims to have washed their dishes, then the dishes in the sink must belong to nobody. Throw them in the trash - seriously :D

TEX

Originally posted by dog walker


Fuck an A!!!

whats a "corn-dart"??

(the finished corn-cob to toss at your buddies rig)??

--sherpa

Reality is people in general are assholes who only care about themselves and that applies to all walks of life. As for drinking on the trail, if you don't, that's OK but if what or how much I drink offends you when you encounter me, let me go one record and say I will drink as much as I want, with whom I want to and if you don't like it then get then fuck away from me or shut your pinhole before I shut it for you... I'm all about being responsible but wheelin is wheelin and I like to drink a lot so guess what, deal with it or as stated earlier, go away.

As for David who refuses to run the 'Con because of the it's diminishing ambiance these day's, all I can say is, oh well, we wouldn't have missed your bible thumping bullshit (another form of noise pollution) on the trail anyway
:p

Originally posted by KeithF
As for drinking on the trail, if you don't, that's OK but if what or how much I drink offends you when you encounter me, let me go one record and say I will drink as much as I want, with whom I want to and if you don't like it then get then fuck away from me or shut your pinhole before I shut it for you... I'm all about being responsible but wheelin is wheelin and I like to drink a lot so guess what, deal with it or as stated earlier, go away.

Nice attitude :rolleyes:

TEX

Originally posted by KeithF
Reality is people in general are assholes who only care about themselves and that applies to all walks of life. As for drinking on the trail, if you don't, that's OK but if what or how much I drink offends you when you encounter me, let me go one record and say I will drink as much as I want, with whom I want to and if you don't like it then get then fuck away from me or shut your pinhole before I shut it for you... I'm all about being responsible but wheelin is wheelin and I like to drink a lot so guess what, deal with it or as stated earlier, go away.

As for David who refuses to run the 'Con because of the it's diminishing ambiance these day's, all I can say is, oh well, we wouldn't have missed your bible thumping bullshit (another form of noise pollution) on the trail anyway
:p


And here we have the pinnacle of selfishness and thoughtlessness... Niiiiiiiiiiice :shaking:

Oooo....This is gonna get messy....Get the popcorn:flipoff2: Oh and the beer;) :p

Originally posted by Rocksie
Oooo....This is gonna get messy....Get the popcorn:flipoff2: Oh and the beer;) :p

There's no need for anything to get messy. Some folks just have the attitude that their fun takes a priority over everything else. Nobody really gives a rats ass if it's "offensive". When it's destructive to the environment, or when it endangers innocent bystanders (which it frequently does), then it's a PROBLEM. Anyone who would disagree with that has no business being in this sport - or even running loose in public for that matter ;)


TEX

I think if you look at this issue in a non-biased court of law (the people who make rules weather you like it or not) DRM's attitude is gonna win out every time.

How do I know this you say? Take smoking...courts have officially ruled that in a battle over who is right or wrong, non smokers will win every time. It is just a matter of time before they rule that non smokers have the right to clean air. This would be the clencher on it cause then any non smoker could boot a smooker out of anywhere, including bars and stuff.

It would eb the same way in a court, drinkers dont have the right to infringe on non drinkers right to quiet or anything else for that matter. When was the last time a cop came to your door and woke you up to tell you the neighbors are trying to drink???

What does this all mean (other than I'm boared) is that LEGALLY a non drinker is gonna win out in court over any kind of usage issues or right to X issues.

Now, the question is who is gonna enforce these issues on the trail? Nobody.

Originally posted by KeithF
As for drinking on the trail, if you don't, that's OK but if what or how much I drink offends you when you encounter me, let me go one record and say I will drink as much as I want, with whom I want to and if you don't like it then get then fuck away from me or shut your pinhole before I shut it for you... I'm all about being responsible but wheelin is wheelin and I like to drink a lot so guess what, deal with it or as stated earlier, go away.


Hey Keith, if you don't take guns up on the trail, that's OK but if I shoot into your drunken camp and it offends you, let me go on record and say I will shoot as many times as I want, and at what I want and if you don't like it then get the fuck away from me or shut your pinhole before I shut it for you...

Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it jackass? :flipoff:

I"m guessing that the same people that are assholes on the trail are gonne be assholes any where else you see them.

You know the guy that is driving down the road and you take a second look at his nice rig and he puffs up like a blowfish and yells what the fawk are you looking at....

I'm sure they are also the people that will open up food containers in the grocery store before paying for it then go on ahead and eat everything then try to cut right in front of you in line.

This also will probably bee the same fawker that drives like an idiot on the freeway during rush hour traffic.

You run into these assholes everyday.

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
I"m guessing that the same people that are assholes on the trail are gonne be assholes any where else you see them.

You run into these assholes everyday.

Monkeyboy I agree with you, the problem is that they aren't going to get grocery stores or freeways shut down, so we (meaning all wheelers) need to educate these people so that they do not get our trails closed. They will either listen or tell you to fawk off, but if the heat gets bad enough they will eventually conform or move on to some other "extreme" :rolleyes: hobby.

Originally posted by Dirty Harry
if the heat gets bad enough they will eventually conform or move on to some other "extreme" :rolleyes: hobby.

I remember the first time I suggested that our club not allow drinking by drivers at our mud races. This guy stood up and screamed at me about "trying to take the fun out of it". Two years later when the measure passed, he was one of the ones who voted for it. The guy didn't give up drinking, he just came to realize when it was & was not appropriate to drink - in particular, when it was not appropriate to drink EXCESSIVELY, which some folks will automatically do if allowed to drink at all.

TEX

Originally posted by Dirty Harry


Monkeyboy I agree with you, the problem is that they aren't going to get grocery stores or freeways shut down, so we (meaning all wheelers) need to educate these people so that they do not get our trails closed. They will either listen or tell you to fawk off, but if the heat gets bad enough they will eventually conform or move on to some other "extreme" :rolleyes: hobby.

I agree Harry

Don't stand back with a angry old man face instead
get out and try to make a difference.

yep, and if they tell ya to f-off. laugh at em, they're just an asshole afterall... worlds full of em.

News release from the Center For Biological Diversity - "National coverage has documented the off-roader violence toward BLM Rangers and extensive off-road vehicle abuse in the area..."
News release from Biodiversity Associates - "dirt bikes and other ORVs are wreaking havoc on our public lands. They are a menace to wildlife, they eliminate quiet trails and cause rapid soil erosion. The popularity of these motorized thrill craft is rapidly increasing and they are running amuck across our public lands. This is unbalanced and unfair to other uses. We don't let dirt bikes race around our backyards, why should they be allowed to go anywhere and everywhere on our public lands, a treasure for ALL US citizens."
The Wilderness Society web page - "motorized off-road vehicles are literally out of control on America's forests, parks, deserts, beaches, rivers, and lakes. Dune buggies churn up the fragile beaches along the East Coast, while the roar of jet-skis shatters the quiet on lakes, rivers, and bays nationwide. All-terrain vehicles rip trees and wildflowers from the hillsides of forests in Kentucky and Georgia and pollute mountain streams with muddy runoff. In the desert of New Mexico, off-road vehicles tear through the precious streams and rivers that are the lifeblood of this arid landscape. In Montana, vehicles gouge new routes across the forests that are home to grizzly bears, wolves, and other large predators. In the California Desert, they tear through fragile wildlife habitats and crush endangered desert tortoises beneath their wheels.
Off-road vehicles (ORVs) have become so powerful over the past 20 years that they can now plow through the most remote backcountry, over lonely desert dunes and into the most secluded alpine valleys. They foul the air, pollute the water, scar the land, and harass wildlife. The whine of their engines drowns out the sounds of nature for miles around."
The Wilderness Soceity Report - "A just-released internal evaluation by the Bureau of Land Management describes "unsafe" and at times "near riot" conditions in the BLM's California Desert District. The Law Enforcement Special Evaluation report found that the area is "unsafe" for the public and that agency law enforcement personnel are at times subject to "life threatening situations."
The report, completed in February of 2000 but only now released, documents extensive legal violations including assaults on BLM rangers, possession of firearms and explosives, and drug-related activities. The report concurs, for example, with a Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association letter contending that "the public lands have become unsafe for family recreation activity due to the use of drugs and alcohol, and the problems with lawlessness that occur with such use."
This is the perception of our sport that is fed to the otherwise uninformed public. Our conduct on the trail DOES matter! I could give a shit how much you drink. Just don't be a dick.

if everything went perfect that weekend, there would still be all these issues. the greenies will lie and fabricate, just as the gun control groups do. the best thing we can do is to police ourselfs and when someone gets out of line, reel them in. mike
and doesn't this belong in chit chat

Originally posted by TEX


Nobody really gives a rats ass if it's "offensive". When it's destructive to the environment, or when it endangers innocent bystanders (which it frequently does), then it's a PROBLEM. Anyone who would disagree with that has no business being in this sport - or even running loose in public for that matter ;)


TEX

I just used this quote for an example.

By this and other points made about how drinking and loud music infringes on peoples rights you have effectively made a case against 4wheeling altogther.
If you apply the logic/ideaology that drinking/music shouldn't be tolerated because it bothers "you" than would not the same logic/ideaology apply to "greenies"saying that a motorized vehicle bothers them?

"you" consider loud music/booze an infringment on your rights.
"greenies"consider 4x4's an infringment on their rights.

So great, "you" tell a group that is bothering you that their activity is bothersome and expect that your rights should be recognized.
The "greenies tell"you" that your activities are bothering them,now what?

If "you expect your right to a quiet campsite to be recognized than your going to have to recognize the "greenies" right to ask you not to drive your vehicle as it bothers them.


Just a point,it is not my own personal opinion.

Originally posted by R O
By this and other points made about how drinking and loud music infringes on peoples rights you have effectively made a case against 4wheeling altogther.
If you apply the logic/ideaology that drinking/music shouldn't be tolerated because it bothers "you" than would not the same logic/ideaology apply to "greenies"saying that a motorized vehicle bothers them?

The difference is that nobody with my point of view is actively lobbying for legislation to end the things that "offend" us. Instead, we're saying "Y'all better knock it off before the greenies have yet another bullet for the gun that's aimed at our sport".

But yeah, you could say that the next logical step would be to say 4-wheeling in itself is offensive. And once we reach the point that law enforcement becomes necessary on a regular basis on our trails, you can be sure that ever stricter laws will be passed and enforced in increments until the sport is effectively eliminated. But, if we were to elinimate the PROBLEM of obnoxious, drunken, careless, and even environmentally damaging behavior, there'd be no call for law enforcement. Therefore, that first step toward a total shutdown would never take place - or at the very least, it would be delayed significantly.

TEX

,,,,and this entire thread, my good freinds, is exactly why "we" will never gain the upper hand in the fight against the greens for our trails. :( We all enjoy the sport but cant stop the internal bickering in our own camps. :heavysigh:

Oh well, im going wheeling.

Geez people, calm the f**k down already. I maen this post is geting WAY out of hand. I have been knopwn to drink and drive, of course not get amazingly drunk and then wheel my rig (which I have done in the past, and will never do again). Now when we go wheeling, I enjoy the party as well as the scenery. If I want to get down and have a good time, I party at the sluice box. If I want to go and relax, I go all the way to the springs. I gotta say if you don't like it, find another place to play. Some people do get out of hand, but that is part of the game out there. I really enjoy partying with the Pirates where they rape the cattle, and eat the women. They get drunk and then play demolition derby with their kids while they watch their trucks get drunk. It is too much fun to watch.

Dimitri

Originally posted by TEX


The difference is that nobody with my point of view is actively lobbying for legislation to end the things that "offend" us. Instead, we're saying [i]"Y'all better knock it off before the greenies have yet another bullet for the gun that's aimed at our sport".
But, if we were to elinimate the PROBLEM of obnoxious, drunken, careless, and even environmentally damaging behavior

TEX

I'll say it again, the statements I'm making here are purely for conterpoint.:)

Some people are saying they need law enforcment to enforce behavior based on their ideaology,thereby making them hypocrits when they say they have the right go wheeling while ignoring others rights to quiet hiking.

what about the difference of opinion concerning what is obnoxious and what is "crankin tunes dude:rasta: ."
One persons carelessness is anothers adreneline rush.
And a case can be made by a full on granola munchin,sandal wearin,long hair sportin greenie that just driving a car is enviromentally damaging.

Nothing personal TEX,I just wanted to point out some flaws with the whole "I have rights"angle against some behaviors.

It IS my opinion that we as a society/world are seriously lacking some simple common sense.For example(not that I've even been there)The Con on the fourth is a big party,it's only one day(there are probably other days),use a little common sense and don't go there expecting to "be one with nature".Come on, it's a big country,you have 4wheel drive,go somewhere isolated.;)
:)

Originally posted by R O
Some people are saying they need law enforcment to enforce behavior based on their ideaology,thereby making them hypocrits when they say they have the right go wheeling while ignoring others rights to quiet hiking.

Who suggested we get laws or the gov't involved? :confused: Not me....

Originally posted by R O


I'll say it again, the statements I'm making here are purely for conterpoint.:)


I really can't say I disagree with what you're saying. And I definitely think that anytime you add any sort of gov't intervention, the net result will be more phucked up than what you started with. That's why I advocate folks just being a bit more respectful not only to their fellow wheelers, but to the granola munchers as well.

TEX

Flatty,

I meet you at the sluice last august and you were drinking the beer with your crew and the tunes where playing cranking. When I told you the songs you played the night before your response was "Why the Fawk didn't you say something we did not think it was that loud".
If I could not sleep I would have bitched...music really carries up there and ya gotta love godsmack and the heavy metal oldies collection you had going.
The point is you were cool about the partying and if everyone was the same, this thread would be dead.

Dirty harry,
Need any ammo I have I have spare :)

Originally posted by Dirty Harry


Hey Keith, if you don't take guns up on the trail, that's OK but if I shoot into your drunken camp and it offends you, let me go on record and say I will shoot as many times as I want, and at what I want and if you don't like it then get the fuck away from me or shut your pinhole before I shut it for you...

Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it jackass? :flipoff: sorry I had to step away for a while so back to the subject at hand, what does me minding my own business drinking a brew in the mountains have to you shooting a round into my camp? am I missing something here?
btw - I'm a very polite and quiet wheeler so you wouldn't notice my presents even if I was camped out right next to your tent (except for when the blender fires up that is) so nix the hostility bud and :flipoff: too ya big :crybaby:

Originally posted by KeithF
sorry I had to step away for a while so back to the subject at hand, what does me minding my own business drinking a brew in the mountains have to you shooting a round into my camp? am I missing something here?
btw - I'm a very polite and quiet wheeler so you wouldn't notice my presents even if I was camped out right next to your tent (except for when the blender fires up that is) so nix the hostility bud

Hey Keith - YOU may not think YOU are loud, but as was said earlier - if nobody was loud and obnoxious when drunk, then this thread would have died pages ago...

Do you really think ALL drinkers are partying quietly and not bothering anyone else?

Originally posted by R O

It IS my opinion that we as a society/world are seriously lacking some simple common sense.For example(not that I've even been there)The Con on the fourth is a big party,it's only one day(there are probably other days),use a little common sense and don't go there expecting to "be one with nature".Come on, it's a big country,you have 4wheel drive,go somewhere isolated.;)
:)

I have heard the same complaints/rants about EJS, Glamis ect. over the years. I personally can't stand to listen to other peoples noise/music when I am camping. Therefore I camp a LONG way away from others, which is what got me into wheeling to begin with. On the other hand, if I choose to go where there are crowds of people, I fell I should expect to run into all kinds of people, and tolerate them accordingly. After all, I CHOSE be there. Hell I've spent my share of time around the campfire to wee hours. It looks like the guys in the pics are having a pretty good time. Too bad you weren't able to lighten up and fun too instead of letting it get you all worked up. I would have grabbed a chair and cold one and enjoyed to show!

Originally posted by DRM


Who suggested we get laws or the gov't involved? :confused: Not me....

lol WHO said it was you:p ,I was expecting a much better reply than this.Go get a coffee or something:D .

There are a couple of posts that alluded to it on the first page.:)

Originally posted by Ramstein
,,,,and this entire thread, my good freinds, is exactly why "we" will never gain the upper hand in the fight against the greens for our trails. :( We all enjoy the sport but cant stop the internal bickering in our own camps. :heavysigh:

Oh well, im going wheeling.
Would you agree or disagree that the behavior of a minority of 4X4 owners is an issue? You would address the issue in what way?
It's not an issue of what you listen to, how much you drink or :smokin: , if we just had some consideration for the rest of the folks on the trail and didn't do stupid shit that gets the trails closed, this wouldn't even be an issue. How f*&ckin' hard is that to get?

Originally posted by DRM


Hey Keith - YOU may not think YOU are loud, but as was said earlier - if nobody was loud and obnoxious when drunk, then this thread would have died pages ago...

Do you really think ALL drinkers are partying quietly and not bothering anyone else? [/B]Agreed, people do tend to be loud and obnoxious when they drink but I'm not so implying that all folks that enjoy to drink act in the same disorderly fashion is out of line and that’s really my point. If I were ever perceived as the problem in this type of situation then I would remove myself from the scene and give whomever their peace and quiet.

we have similar problems here in the midwest. we spend a weekend picking up trash along our trails, only to have some fukn redneck who doesnt want to pay his trash bill dump 3 months worth of diapers, beercans, and misc crap sunday night... and because he does it in a pick up truck, the unwashed masses blame all 4 wheelers.

Originally posted by ChrisPy
we have similar problems here in the midwest. we spend a weekend picking up trash along our trails, only to have some fukn redneck who doesnt want to pay his trash bill dump 3 months worth of diapers, beercans, and misc crap sunday night... and because he does it in a pick up truck, the unwashed masses blame all 4 wheelers.

That's a fact. :mad: Same goes for the bad rep canoe floaters get. The locals that live along the streams do 99% of the littering. You'd think people would learn not to schit in their own living room :rolleyes:

TEX

Originally posted by KeithF
Agreed, people do tend to be loud and obnoxious when they drink but I'm not so implying that all folks that enjoy to drink act in the same disorderly fashion is out of line and that’s really my point. If I were ever perceived as the problem in this type of situation then I would remove myself from the scene and give whomever their peace and quiet.

That is cool Keith. That sounds better than before when you wrote "I will drink as much as I want, with whom I want to and if you don't like it then get then fuck away from me or shut your pinhole before I shut it for you... I'm all about being responsible but wheelin is wheelin and I like to drink a lot so guess what, deal with it or as stated earlier, go away."

It is not the drinking that I have a problem with. I don't drink personally, but I don't have a problem with anyone else doing it. Hell, I am a libertarian, I don't have a problem with anyone else doing ANYTHING- so long as it doesn't affect me. And if it does affect me I don't have a problem with asking you to stop. As long as everyone is considerate it is all good.

Originally posted by withamc

....It's not an issue of what you listen to, how much you drink or :smokin: , if we just had some consideration for the rest of the folks on the trail and didn't do stupid shit that gets the trails closed, this wouldn't even be an issue. How f*&ckin' hard is that to get?

Ta da! Give the man a prize.

After PAGE 3, y'all should've figured out there'd be polar opinions on this topic, Fukn-A.

http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/deadhorse.gif

Originally posted by cbassett
After PAGE 3, y'all should've figured out there'd be polar opinions on this topic, Fukn-A.

http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/deadhorse.gif

NO $HIT!!!

Would you agree or disagree that the behavior of a minority of 4X4 owners is an issue?
I agree, but this topic has been discused many, many times before.

You would address the issue in what way?

I get involved, go to BLM and forestry meetings and most importantly, inform and educate people when I can. Are you going to be at the protest rally tomorrow???

It's not an issue of what you listen to, how much you drink or :smokin: , if we just had some consideration for the rest of the folks on the trail and didn't do stupid shit that gets the trails closed, this wouldn't even be an issue. How f*&ckin' hard is that to get?

Yup Yup Yup!

People need to chill out a bit I've been on both sides of the fence
been the group of people partying it up and been the group trying to sleep thats life. If you come to a spot to camp look around and check out your neighbours if they got tons of booze and a big stereo it might be the spot to hang out and party if they look quiet and you want to party go find some other spot or the other way around. No ones rights is worth more than anyone elses so deal with it andbe responsible for your own actions. Pick up trash and be nice to nature and we can all get along. :beer: :smokin:

Originally posted by Ramstein

I get involved, go to BLM and forestry meetings and most importantly, inform and educate people when I can. Are you going to be at the protest rally tomorrow???

I am bringing my Jeep to work and crossing my fingers I don't get fender flare tickets. If the work load allows, I am slipping out around 11:00 and taking a long lunch :)

For those of you who think having "one" on the trail is your right your wrong it is against the law (if you didn't know).
For those of you who say you like to have "one" on the trail your full of sh%t every cop you ever talk to will tell you that everyone he arrests have had no more than a "couple".
For those of you who don't want to get the gov. involed, too late the cop are there and they said they will be their every weekend through the rest of the year. If this wasn't causing problems then why are the cops their.
For those of you that say why worry about it were not hurting anybody your even more full of sh%t this year alone I've have two different drunks try and pass me on the trail before I had a chance to get of and nearly roll onto me or take out my window climbing the side of the trail and another drunk backed into my buddies jeep smashing his fender and took off my buddy tracked him down and got bogus info from him but I guess acording to some peolpe this sould be expected in the "party areas" that must mean the whole trail is a "party area".
I would be willing to help if the cops want to make a mass arrest for driving drunk, open containers, drunk in public, or disterbing the puplic.
I wonder what it would cost the culprit to have his vehicle towed and imponded from little sluice?
Some people thing there's a fine line between having fun and disturbing others, people it's not theline is not that fine its easy keep to yourself, music down drinking at camp its that easy.
I'm not usually this harsh but the trail is under threat and if you think this is not just more ammo you need to go to AA because you do have a problem.

Originally posted by pontiota

too late the cop are there and they said they will be their every weekend through the rest of the year. If this wasn't causing problems then why are the cops their.

.

Sorry it's BS, I just got back, NO COP's plenty of D&D, it's not being enforsed.........if they were there to make any D&D arest, it would happen 1st weekend, so how many were arested? who was arested?
none. or we would have heard about it.

pontiota said- "For those of you who think having "one" on the trail is your right your wrong it is against the law (if you didn't know)."
Right. So is chaining an alligator to a fire hydrant in a certain small town in Maine.
I agree, drunken driving laws are a little more specific, and more towards "the welfare of the people."
FYI, there are a few states left such as Wyoming where there is no open container law. People are free to drink and drive LEGALLY as long as they're not drunk.

But face it. One of the nicer aspects of four-wheeling is getting away from it all. "All" to include law enforcement. I've seen some stupid stuff on the trails, most of it from the one wheeling area around here that is known as an "anything goes" type spot. The local yokels know all about it and you can always count on full size Furd and Chebby carnage as the boys get loaded and wreck their shit. THAT is detrimental to four-wheeling, especially since this place is close to Boulder and any greenie looking for ammo just needs a camera and a short hike to get it.

I'd like to think the people that make up this forum are a little more clued-in. Anybody that runs the "extreme" trails- would you do it with alcohol in your system? Didn't think so. On an easier trail run I have no problem whatsoever with tipping a beer every once in a while. Moderation. My version of that is about a beer per hour at most, which will keep you under even a DWAI limit. Hard trail? It stays in the cooler. It may be illegal but so are tons of other things. While piloting a vehicle at 5 mph with no chance of enforcement I just don't think it applies and the situation is very different from someone with a similar amount of alcohol driving through rush hour traffic.

Don't kid yourself thinking you can control the drunken idiots. They will always be there and the best plan is to mitigate their effects, if that's possible. License plate numbers and a phone call are a good way to start.

Originally posted by withamc
News release from the Center For Biological Diversity - "National coverage has documented the off-roader violence toward BLM Rangers and extensive off-road vehicle abuse in the area..."
News release from Biodiversity Associates - "dirt bikes and other ORVs are wreaking havoc on our public lands. They are a menace to wildlife, they eliminate quiet trails and cause rapid soil erosion. The popularity of these motorized thrill craft is rapidly increasing and they are running amuck across our public lands. This is unbalanced and unfair to other uses. We don't let dirt bikes race around our backyards, why should they be allowed to go anywhere and everywhere on our public lands, a treasure for ALL US citizens."
The Wilderness Society web page - "motorized off-road vehicles are literally out of control on America's forests, parks, deserts, beaches, rivers, and lakes. Dune buggies churn up the fragile beaches along the East Coast, while the roar of jet-skis shatters the quiet on lakes, rivers, and bays nationwide. All-terrain vehicles rip trees and wildflowers from the hillsides of forests in Kentucky and Georgia and pollute mountain streams with muddy runoff. In the desert of New Mexico, off-road vehicles tear through the precious streams and rivers that are the lifeblood of this arid landscape. In Montana, vehicles gouge new routes across the forests that are home to grizzly bears, wolves, and other large predators. In the California Desert, they tear through fragile wildlife habitats and crush endangered desert tortoises beneath their wheels.
Off-road vehicles (ORVs) have become so powerful over the past 20 years that they can now plow through the most remote backcountry, over lonely desert dunes and into the most secluded alpine valleys. They foul the air, pollute the water, scar the land, and harass wildlife. The whine of their engines drowns out the sounds of nature for miles around."
The Wilderness Soceity Report - "A just-released internal evaluation by the Bureau of Land Management describes "unsafe" and at times "near riot" conditions in the BLM's California Desert District. The Law Enforcement Special Evaluation report found that the area is "unsafe" for the public and that agency law enforcement personnel are at times subject to "life threatening situations."
The report, completed in February of 2000 but only now released, documents extensive legal violations including assaults on BLM rangers, possession of firearms and explosives, and drug-related activities. The report concurs, for example, with a Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association letter contending that "the public lands have become unsafe for family recreation activity due to the use of drugs and alcohol, and the problems with lawlessness that occur with such use."
This is the perception of our sport that is fed to the otherwise uninformed public. Our conduct on the trail DOES matter! I could give a shit how much you drink. Just don't be a dick.

Very well said. Too many people have no clue that our sport is being monitored & filmed this closely. We have enough problems keeping trails open with the frivilous enadangered species lawsuits. We don't need to give them any more ammo.....

Crowdog

That weekend was a joke and so are many other weekends I have encountered at the Con on different occasions. Besides all the drunken disrespectful idiots that flood the Box and Spider on many weekends, we as the 4 wheel drive enthusist need to recognize another important issue I think we need to get a handle on also. I don’t know if any of you have noticed the slabs are getting covered with gear oil. When I was up there on the 4th just 2 weekends ago, besides having to deal with all the fucking idiots that don’t even deserve to be in a amazing place like the Rubicon and Desolation, I would have to say from the Box to Bucks reeked of gear oil. Around the box alone on the slabs there were at least 30 different oil patches from mostly idiots that don’t have rigs that are set up to run the Box. And that is not including the stank coming from the Box itself. I have no problem with people beating the hell out of there rigs and enjoy doing it, but what do you have to prove to yourself or another one else to push your incapable rig let alone driving skills through the Box until your rig breaks and you leak gear oil all over the place. It just blows my mind. Do you think the tree huggers and any descent human likes the smell or looks of gear oil?

Besides all the trash left behind, besides all the trash in the water on the edges around spider, besides all the human shit and toilet paper around that area, on top of it all, we have to coat it all with some nice smelling gear oil.

Those of us who respect the environment better enjoy the Con now because it is not going to be open much longer...

There are jerks everywhere. The best we can do is minimize the damage done by them (environmental and reputation) and try to educate.

Instead of flaming anyone on either side of this issue, (I wasn't there in the situation to see it for myself) I would offer that perhaps a good place to start educating this particular group of jerks would have been in regards to safety. I, personally, don't think that I would/could/should have let them put themselves at risk. A quick hike over there and some education on how much risk they were taking with their lives may have had a sobering effect.

Not every conversation has to lead to a confrontation.

There is usually at least one reasonable person in each group that you can appeal to, to get the rest to listen. Or at least get your point across so that that person can convey the message the next day. (Perhaps not an immediate benefit to you in that specific situation, but also perhaps you get through to even just one person)

If they would have been unwilling to listen to reason, that would be their choice, and I would feel better knowing I had tried (especially if someone would have been hurt) I am sure that the comment about them deserving to get hurt was written in extreme anger for the damage done to the cause. I bet you would have been there in a hearbeat if something had actually gone bad.

In that situation, it may be possible that the safety lesson may have won a little respect, which may in turn have resulted in a little more consideration of others when they were asked to keep the party noise down.

The Con is a public road. So are the waterways of CA. As such, and regardless of how much I like my beer, it is against the law to drink and operate any motor vehicle (rig or boat). Although there is not always someone there to catch you, it is still wrong.
It is hard to be the one to set the example, but I urge you all to do so. Others seeing you do it, makes it easier for them to justify. Not all can be trusted to be responsible, that is why it is a law. Besides, that same beer will be much more rewarding back in camp if you have waited all day for it.

Just my $.02

Originally posted by DRM


Who suggested we get laws or the gov't involved? :confused: Not me....

It ain't you bitching for more laws and enforcement on the primitive roads and trails, it's your damn politicians and their appointments (the appointees of who you voted for) expressing your wishes (unless you have written them lately).

Unless you just recently fell off the tire truck, you may want to know we here in California allowed our elected Senate and Assembly leadership appoint Green Group leaders to the Motorized Off-Highway Vehicle Recreation Council (gentleman like Paul Splitler, of the California Wilderness Coalition.) These are the committee members who determine what kind of government presence there is, "on the motorized trails" in California.

These folks feel more laws and enforcement are needed on OHV trails (and primitive street legal roads like the Rubicon). They (the OHV Council and our State Congressmen) feel this way because folks like us have not expressed our wishes on where we want them to focus "enforcement" efforts. We bitch we want enforcement (threads like this and in letters to editors) without direction, while the Greens have expressed they want all the evil habitat threats policed (real and imagined, or they direct our representatives to simply close it all down). Guess what enforcement we will get?

Now, beer drinking may not be a habitat threat (not when it's a Sierra Clubber staggering down the trail) but it is an illegal activity for a driver on public highways (and with current pending legislation, illegal for drivers on OHV routes as well). Guess who will be the easy target when the greens get their way and have armed law enforcement on the trail to monitor habitat threats? Take a guess how the media reports will read when a 4-wheeler is arrested on the Rubicon Trail (by an officer hired to enforce habitat protection, regardless of the activity sighted)?

Anyway you look at an illegal activity on a road or trail, like the Rubicon, it's a black mark against 4-wheelers. Illegal activity feeds the media fires demanding closure for "protection of our pristine resources" (protection for assumed habitat threats, and from are own selfish and potentially life threatening bad habits).

Chew on the consequences for a while...

How do you want your favorite recreation reported by the media wolves (when the enforcement shows up)?

What is more important in the long run, the next opened beer on the trail, or the trail open next year?

Talking story and drinking are part of the experience, just try to keep it scheduled when you are not in the drivers seat.

Happy Trails!

Originally posted by Roc Dog
That weekend was a joke and so are many other weekends ... I don’t know if any of you have noticed the slabs are getting covered with gear oil..... Around the box alone on the slabs there were at least 30 different oil patches from mostly idiots that don’t have rigs that are set up to run the Box. And that is not including the stank coming from the Box itself. ... Do you think the tree huggers and any descent human likes the smell or looks of gear oil?


I'm with ya Roc Dog. I was up there this weekend and watched this dude peel his rear diff open, dumping at least a quart of gear oil in the Box. He then proceeded to run the rest of the box and then drove up onto the slabs to fix his diff cover. Some folks gave him sh*t about his mess, and folks from his own club (Auburn Jeep Club, or whatever their name is) told him he needed to do something about the mess. He acknowledged. I went back to my camp for a while, and when I came back down the dude was nowhere to be found and his puddle was still in the Box. On top of that it was smeared around all over the place from rigs that followed this dude.
Oh, guess who I saw walking along the Box just before I got back there.... Yep, a group of hikers; decked out in their khaki's, looked to be taking notes. Way to represent f*ck nutz. :mad:

:nuke:

On the fluid/leak note...

When we were out there a few weeks ago (from Colorado) we pretty much came to the conclusion that every vehicle must leak some sort of fluid if its registered in the state of California.

Anywhere there was rocks there were drips everywhere. I ain't no greenie, but there was plenty of evidence for them to take pictures of.

I think everyone should carry a little bucket to catch diff fluid during a repair. I understand that punctures are going to happen, But at least fix the leaks before you hit the trail.

Originally posted by cbassett



I'm with ya Roc Dog. I was up there this weekend and watched this dude peel his rear diff open, dumping at least a quart of gear oil in the Box. He then proceeded to run the rest of the box and then drove up onto the slabs to fix his diff cover. Some folks gave him sh*t about his mess, and folks from his own club (Auburn Jeep Club, or whatever their name is) told him he needed to do something about the mess. He acknowledged. I went back to my camp for a while, and when I came back down the dude was nowhere to be found and his puddle was still in the Box. On top of that it was smeared around all over the place from rigs that followed this dude.
Oh, guess who I saw walking along the Box just before I got back there.... Yep, a group of hikers; decked out in their khaki's, looked to be taking notes. Way to represent f*ck nutz. :mad:

Yup I was next to you...this clown didn't even stop so it would be just one spot:mad3: Pat[yotacrawler] did the same thing, but stopped, then came right to the box with a plastic bag and shovle! and he is only like 20 years old, sets a good example........this guy just kept going dripping everywhere:rolleyes: :mad:

Originally posted by SeaBass44


Yup I was next to you...this clown didn't even stop so it would be just one spot:mad3: Pat[yotacrawler] did the same thing, but stopped, then came right to the box with a plastic bag and shovle! and he is only like 20 years old, sets a good example........this guy just kept going dripping everywhere:rolleyes: :mad:

I believe 'FatPat' is more like 18. He just got his license recently but you're right, he already has more wheeling sense than a lot of dumbasses I see on the trails. Wait till you see his rig next time. He's making a removable top for it, just got a flatbed on it and is looking to do some kinda exo... :D

This thread has me thinking that I need to add some more cleanup materials to my list too. Thanks... :D

WOW, THIS IS CRAZY :eek:

Sorry it's BS, I just got back, NO COP's plenty of D&D, it's not being enforsed.........if they were there to make any D&D arest, it would happen 1st weekend, so how many were arested? who was arested?
none. or we would have heard about it.


If you read my post I didn't say anything about anybody getting arrested I just said they were there
I'm not sure where you were Seabass44 but I saw them both holiday weekends, 4 Eldorado county Sherriffs on quads, I talked to them on the 4th they were stuck at Walker hill that Friday and they didn't make it to the sluice. They only go in for the day so maybe you haven't seen them that deep in the Con.
I'm not usually an avacate for Law enforcment but this is out of hand and yes is dose endanger other people as I explained in my other posting on the subject. The cops have not arrested anyone, yet, but you would be amazed how calm and civil people were at the Gatekeeper when they saw the Cops coming out.
Just their presents made a big difference.
I also told they I would be willing to help out if they needed to hog tie a drunk and through him on my rack to get him to the local jail.

Originally posted by pontiota
Sorry it's BS, I just got back, NO COP's plenty of D&D, it's not being enforsed.........if they were there to make any D&D arest, it would happen 1st weekend, so how many were arested? who was arested?
none. or we would have heard about it.


If you read my post I didn't say anything about anybody getting arrested I just said they were there
I'm not sure where you were Seabass44 but I saw them both holiday weekends, 4 Eldorado county Sherriffs on quads, I talked to them on the 4th they were stuck at Walker hill that Friday and they didn't make it to the sluice. They only go in for the day so maybe you haven't seen them that deep in the Con.
I'm not usually an avacate for Law enforcment but this is out of hand and yes is dose endanger other people as I explained in my other posting on the subject. The cops have not arrested anyone, yet, but you would be amazed how calm and civil people were at the Gatekeeper when they saw the Cops coming out.
Just their presents made a big difference.
I also told they I would be willing to help out if they needed to hog tie a drunk and through him on my rack to get him to the local jail.

I swa them.........last year at the box, another year is here and you hear the same thing, it makes no difference unless they are there 24/7......I can see what you are saying, but they do no good unless they are rioght there.....just like speeders, if the cops are not around they speed.........morons are not for the most part reading this bb......so how do you get the hard core drunks to stop?

Wow ,
This is depressing ,seems we have real got to work on respect for others and the land we want to keep public.

We used to go to the sierras to wheel and get away from people and load noises traffic, and soak of the wilderness and quietness of the great outdoors.
Common sense has gone by the way side it appears , driving drunk ,even off road is wrong, being load and obnoxious is rude and disrespectable to others who want to share the outdoors as well.
And what gives anyone the right to break a diff or oil pan leak oil all over those beautiful rocks and great land andthen leave it there , huh?
Where were these people raised,breaking can't be prevented all the time , but wheni thappens clean it up ,common sense man it will get tracked all over then it becomes a slippery mess for anyone wanting to come along.
Geez ask for some help if you have to , to clean up the mess ,offer to help. Good god the green eco nazi's are just loking for reasons to close OUR PUBLIC LANDS scenes like this give them all the ammunition they need, shit if i were a congressman or woman and saw this behavior every week i couldn't help bu think we need to close this off before it gets destroyed by the hooligans.
Maybe WE need to post some trail rules for wheeling in these great parks,post signs and have plastic bags for trash pic up and oil clean up if someone breaks something. Have people from the forrest service tuned to certain cb radio channels to monitor the area when we see people abusing the area and driving drunk.
Until people are backed into a corner and threatened with jail time and see people getting hauled off to jail for polluting the streams with oil and trash and driving drunk they wont care. Maybe we need to help more ,speak in a kind way," hey guys we can help you get up through there ,bu tnext time get locked up or go around and hike up to see the view" This area is a tough climb in a well prepared 4x4 , trying with out the right equipement can get you hurt". We also have some trash bags for those cans and abaggy for that oil,lets scoop that up before it gets all over the place and track everywhere".
I dont think these gus "purposely" did this stuff,but you mix hard working guys,trying to blow off steam,getting stressed by a broken jeep and inadequate equipement to complete the climb, well your begging for failure and a situation that has got to look really bad after the fact.
If we sponser some trail rules signs,call on the radio when qwe see things get out of hand when your out numbered to help,and start holding people accountable for thier action, maybe we can get a few to see the big picture here. And if we get a few to see it the rest will follow. In order for us to "share" in the beauty of the CON and many other places we must share in the responsebility to keep it clean and protect it from vandals and those who have no respect for others.

my .02


hope things get better up there ... :):beer:

Those pics and those idiots in the jeep who dropped all that gear oil in the box are perfect example of what is going to get this trail shut. The more I read the more I am convinced it is going to take a lot of concern mature respectable people to put a stop to the idiots on the trail. We need to step up and say something or do something to make a difference. Maybe something like when a idiot leaks oil all over the box or anywhere on the trail and doesnt take the time to clean it up we should tell them if they are idiots enough to leave their mess on the trail I will have to clean it up for you. When other people see that kind of trail maintainence on the trail they may start to do their part. I dont know what to do but I do know I will start bringing my digital and I will start posting pics of the idiots who are ruining our spot that many of us try to respect. Maybe when people start seeing the same people doing the same shit with no respect they will start getting their asses vibed off the trail.

We should actually have a forum on here where we can post pics and statement of idiots for all to see. That would be a great idea! Then all can see and read about all the fawkers out there who have no respect for the CON!!!!

i might be able to find out who the guy is that dumped the oil and let him know that kind of action cant be happening. he wasn't with auburn jeep club, just running the trail behind them. cant believe no one else cleaned it up for him. doesn't matter who cleans it up some times, just as long as it gets cleaned up! shit i cleaned up at least 2 qts of oil at the bottom of winch hill one memorial weekend. wasn't mine but it still needed doing:rolleyes:

My ideas from an out of state person who has NEVER seen a trail so heavily used (and abused I might add) is:

PAID trash service, garbage cans along the trail the someone/company empties, including ash trays around the sluice

PAID portalets, I would not want to be the guy pumping them, but they are needed

PAID camp ground attendants to provide order/curfew/cleanup

There were so many vehicles there a few weeks ago, on weekday no less, that the above services looked like they were needed.

No I don't know where the money would come from, or who would manage it. But, from a Colorado 4wheelers perspective the trail and its surrounds are being abused.

Originally posted by FULLSIZE
i might be able to find out who the guy is that dumped the oil and let him know that kind of action cant be happening. he wasn't with auburn jeep club, just running the trail behind them. cant believe no one else cleaned it up for him. doesn't matter who cleans it up some times, just as long as it gets cleaned up! shit i cleaned up at least 2 qts of oil at the bottom of winch hill one memorial weekend. wasn't mine but it still needed doing:rolleyes:

I pick up enough garbage from these fools.............I'm, not cleaning up there spills, I draw the line somewhere.:mad: I'll help a buddy clean up,.........

understood that it gets old cleaning up after everyone, but its gonna be spills and trail damage thats gonna ruin it. i know it's like preachin' to the choir so i'll shut up now :flipoff2:

Those pics and those idiots in the jeep who dropped all that gear oil in the box are perfect example of what is going to get this trail shut. The more I read the more I am convinced it is going to take a lot of concern mature respectable people to put a stop to the idiots on the trail. We need to step up and say something or do something to make a difference. Maybe something like when a idiot leaks oil all over the box or anywhere on the trail and doesnt take the time to clean it up we should tell them if they are idiots enough to leave their mess on the trail I will have to clean it up for you. When other people see that kind of trail maintainence on the trail they may start to do their part. I dont know what to do but I do know I will start bringing my digital and I will start posting pics of the idiots who are ruining our spot that many of us try to respect. Maybe when people start seeing the same people doing the same shit with no respect they will start getting their asses vibed off the trail.

We should actually have a forum on here where we can post pics and statement of idiots for all to see. That would be a great idea! Then all can see and read about all the fawkers out there who have no respect for the CON!!!!

last july, my first trip to the CON: nice rigs, lotsa drinking, 4 cops on atv's. the little sluice was a big party place, that is where the cops parked for a couple hours to watch. some fans\hecklers were VERY intoxicated! i never saw the cops bother anyone who was drinking...even the guy in a cj5 driving up walker hill with one in hand. (cops right there). i also noticed the oil and smell in the box. so what i am getting at is this: TAKE CARE OF WHAT YOU HAVE, BECAUSE IT IS AN AWESOME PLACE TO WHEEL AND IT ONLY TAKES 1 FOOL TO RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE. :mad:

Originally posted by CrazyHorse


I don't know which group it was you are talking about off the main trail, but suspect that it may have been ours. The gentleman I was wheeling with (dark blue 93 toyota pickup with a canoe on top) took what he later claimed was an old, and accepted alternate route. I was in the process of taking the route that appeared to be the encouraged one (didn't appear blocked like his route did), when he snapped his steering, and wound up in a precarious situation (almost rolling down the hill, with his pregnant wife in the truck) At this point I climbed up, to be able to safely get his truck to a point where it could be repaired. I pointed out the log at the bottom to him, and suggested that we were on a blocked off bypass, he said he hadn't noticed, as the log was between two trails up the hill, and he thought it had been part of a felled tree that was pulled off of the trail, not a roadblock. The other end of this spur was not blocked in any way. If it is supposed to be a blocked trail, if someone would let me know, next time one of us is up there we will make sure that it is fully blocked at both ends, so that no one else can error. Location wise it was the hill that comes shortly after little sluice when outbound towards loon. the trail goes through the dirt "trough" and turns hard left, winding around the shoulder of the hill, this route is a slightly softer left, and goes straight up the hill (which was one of the reasons I suspected it of being closed, as straight up climbs cause erosion probelems)

No John, this was a full size chevy or gmc pick up that with no traffic in the area and by himself (and two passagers), deliberately decided to drive off the trail not only on the already graved bypassed trail but right through the bushes NEXT to the by pass trail and got hung up on a rock. Therefore he was trashing about trying to get unstuck only making it worse. He did meet up with a bunch of people at Buck Island and they all just sat and staired at us like WE did it. :rolleyes:

Loud music, partying all night etc WILL GET THE CON CLOSED. if you ruin some guys trip and he writes a letter complaining, thats the kind of shit that gives bureacrats and politicians problems. I had a real nice chat w/ some sheriffs on this subject.

Think about it.
be courteous

kid

Originally posted by kidwired

Think about it.
be courteous

kid

That is probably the most simple yet profound quote I have ever seen on this subject. I usually don't chime in on these threads as they get me so p!ssed that I can't see straight. I think that ALMOST everyone on this board, while not always following "tread lightly" rules while doing their posuer shots, DOES give a sh!t. We spend a lot of time on our junk, enjoying using it, especially with our families and friends.

You would think that here in the land of Granola, that we would have great trail behavior. Hah! :rolleyes: There is one area, "left hand canyon - carnage canyon" (named for carnage for a reason) that people clean up a couple of times a year. It is right close to CU-Boulder, (home of the granola's) and is fawking filthy all year! Several clubs rent rolloffs, usually once a season, and haul all sorts of sh!t out of there. EVEN COUCHES! What's amazing is that a full size would have a damn hard time doing Carnage, (it's too tight for my rig is spots) so I don't even know how the hell you get a couch IN there! :eek:

The bonus though, is that almost every time we go out, I have yet another example to use as a "teaching moment" for my 6 year old.

j

Sad as it is.....the day is comming where ya will see a gated trail........and if it's open at all..*not likely* Rangers will be doing a cooler check, a copy of plate # and insurance documentation will be on file as well as a sign out done on the other end or sum such nonesense. Just seems to be the direction it's heading to me...I realize there are some serious #'s of people behind trail cleanups, maitenace and the fight to keep the Con open
(commend them all)....but it seems that the abuse and misconduct is at such a level already the snow ball is rolling faster and faster every year...... Maybe the option is for the wheelers to ask for some form of supervision?.....I dunno. Sad day when we need law enforcement to rnjoy the great outdoors.

NoRM

A couple weeks back before they closed the forrest after some pretty bad fires in the Glendore and Azusa Canyon Area of the Cleveland National Forrest I beleive as well as others. I witnessed 5-6 people driving in and out of the river creak or what ever you want to call it ,that runs into the San Gabriel Resevoir , They hand out fliers that state cross the river at 90 degree angles stay out of the river except to cross in designated spots.

All of this is to save the Caifornia Sucker Fish from extintcion ,the "specialists says" which live and breed in the river.
Not to mention they want to keep the parts per million of benzene and other oil contaminates out of the water,which is checked daily by some volunteers of the ACORA club to help stop it from getting too polluted by traffic and closed down.

Then they have a banner posted at the resevoir saying the same thing. Well ,i watched and took photos as 5-6 trucks jeeps,motorcylces ran up and down the river at the end near the lake entrance where the mud pits are.
They did this for 30-45- minutes , finally some of the local ACORA gusy told them to stop again and they did ,for a while.
Meanwhile where were the rangers? up at the entrance, watching the river in a different less populated spot.
Before i left i witnessed them give 4 tickets to people who drove thier city 4x4's into the water and raced up stream.
YOu see ,if they dont give people tickets with huge $$$ fine they wont stop,no matter how often you tell them its going to close the place down.
People in general are pretty good ,but money talks ,and bullshit walks when it comes to this kinda of enforcement.
I am sure plenty of people have complained before, but now that they passed this new law in Sacramento giving the Forrest Service some teeth maybe they can really enforce the laws and rights of others, more so make people aware that if you want to play outside the rules your going to pay big time.

This is a situation where evidence is very important. You need pictures of their plates and what their camp looked like after they left. Did they clean up afterwards? That’s what the FOTR is for and they will follow up.

This Thread reminds me of the movie Changing Lanes.. Thanks allot.. didn't need to be reminded of that phsyco movie.. :flipoff2:

But - message to drunk wheelers...

Do what's right and don't drink on the trails, especially not if your on public lands where you could be putting ACCESS for [the rest of us] in jeapordy.

You shouldn't drink and drive period whether your going 55mph or your going 1mph.

Once you get a little older and lose enough friends and loved-ones - you'll understand this - lets hope you don't have to go to the funeral of your friend, sibling, mother, father, child or grandchild because he got killed by some drunk. Even worse, lets hope you don't have to live with killing someone because of your drunkedness...

Wheeling is a very dangerous sport when your straight, and you need to be thinking straight when your doing it.

When your feeling 10 feet tall, you don't tend to think about getting your eye removed by a highlift handle. You don't think about your head getting snapped off by a winch cable and thrown 100 yards, you don't think about that Jeep that's about to rollover on your head. It's just fucking stupid to not be at 100%. You don't think about the kids standing around that might have to witness blood spurting from your body.

Get fucking real anyway - wheeling should be a natural high for you, or you shouldn't be doing it. Go find something you can do that is so much fun you don't need a buzz... I'm thinking it's so much fun I don't even think about alcohol - and I'm the type that parties hard at camp. I love to party and get drunk... but there's a time and a place.

However, if you feel the need to be a real dumbass and take that chance of endangering our access to such public places like the Legendary Rubicon Trail, well, then you need your ass kicked. I won't be the one to do it I'm sure - but surely if you keep acting like a fool, someone soon will... OR you might grow up first... who knows..

On the other hand... if you chose to go on some private land and get fucked up and run some trails.. HAVE AT IT!!! I wish you the best of luck. If something bad happens, well, less trouble you'll be for my kids and grandkids in the longrun :D

http://www.americangourmet.net/assets/images/bison600.jpg
Ain't forkin around :flipoff2:

Originally posted by rubiconray
This is a situation where evidence is very important. You need pictures of their plates and what their camp looked like after they left. Did they clean up afterwards? That’s what the FOTR is for and they will follow up.
And the police say they can only prosecute if they[police] see it happening 1st hand.......so even though it sounds good here, the police say it won't fly, so now what?

btt 4danightcrew

I have witnessed trail stupiduty and drunkeness on trails in CO several times.....
One I remember in particular was just up the trail from the Great Sand Dunes....we paused for a break and attempts at a long, steep sand hill......a late model Bronco went by us headed up the trail and everyone on board had a beer in their hand(including the driver).....we played for another 30 minutes and headed on up the trail.....about 3/4 mile from where we had been playing, we came across the Bronco....they had run off the trail and wrecked into some loose rocks....the steering was trashed and the front diff was cracked open and the gear oil has mostly leaked out...they were just sitting there looking at it and drinking more beer......these guys were at least 5 miles from any help....what were they planning to do to get out? None of them had the slightest idea of what to do next....they asked us if we would detour from our planned route to take them back down the trail to the camp ground so they could get their other truck to try to pull the Bronco out and back down the mountain.....
our reply? We pulled them off the rocks and left them on the side of the trail to sober up....several of them were having trouble walking.....:eek: I wasn't going to ruin my trail ride (and take a chance on one of them barfing in my ride)....we exited the mountain on the other side that day and returned to the campground by way of the highway.....we did go up that same trai the next day and the Bronco was still there, but now the wheels/tires were gone and all glass was smashed out....
sad shame they didn't realize that they were ruining a good time by drinking it away....
had they NOT been drunk, we probably would have helped them out....
MY POINT? I chose who to help and when just like thye chose how much to drink and when......

Originally posted by 4runner
I have witnessed trail stupiduty and drunkeness on trails in CO several times.....
One I remember in particular was just up the trail from the Great Sand Dunes....we paused for a break and attempts at a long, steep sand hill......a late model Bronco went by us headed up the trail and everyone on board had a beer in their hand(including the driver).....we played for another 30 minutes and headed on up the trail.....about 3/4 mile from where we had been playing, we came across the Bronco....they had run off the trail and wrecked into some loose rocks....the steering was trashed and the front diff was cracked open and the gear oil has mostly leaked out...they were just sitting there looking at it and drinking more beer......these guys were at least 5 miles from any help....what were they planning to do to get out? None of them had the slightest idea of what to do next....they asked us if we would detour from our planned route to take them back down the trail to the camp ground so they could get their other truck to try to pull the Bronco out and back down the mountain.....
our reply? We pulled them off the rocks and left them on the side of the trail to sober up....several of them were having trouble walking.....:eek: I wasn't going to ruin my trail ride (and take a chance on one of them barfing in my ride)....we exited the mountain on the other side that day and returned to the campground by way of the highway.....we did go up that same trai the next day and the Bronco was still there, but now the wheels/tires were gone and all glass was smashed out....
sad shame they didn't realize that they were ruining a good time by drinking it away....
had they NOT been drunk, we probably would have helped them out....
MY POINT? I chose who to help and when just like thye chose how much to drink and when......

Good story...I like the ending;)

Originally posted by SeaBass44

And the police say they can only prosecute if they[police] see it happening 1st hand.......so even though it sounds good here, the police say it won't fly, so now what?

Vigilante justice:flipoff2:

Originally posted by RCKRATZ


Vigilante justice:flipoff2:

is there any other kind?:flipoff2:

There has to be some way to get these people busted. :confused:

As suggested above, use the FOTR process:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61854

If the process doesn't pan out, then you've lost only a bit of time. If it does pan out, then you made a small step in keeping the trail open. :cool:

You can use this space to what-if and question all you want, but in the end, nothing changes. Why not at least make an effort to engage the process? What have you got to lose? :rolleyes:

Randii

Originally posted by randii
You can use this space to what-if and question all you want, but in the end, nothing changes. Why not at least make an effort to engage the process? What have you got to lose? :rolleyes:

Randii


But isn't that the entire purpose of the board? I will be the first one in line to follow the process and report someone, but if our process isn't working what is wrong with questioning it....... we should continue to question it until we get a system that works. I agree that the system we have should be used, but it obviously has its flaws, and in order for the process to become better we should continue to evaluate the process. Right?

But isn't that the entire purpose of the board?
Can't speak to that -- ask Lance.

I will be the first one in line to follow the process and report someone, but if our process isn't working what is wrong with questioning it.......
Nothing. I don't think we have a sufficient sampling to fault the process yet. I've spoken with Del at length about this, and he's confident that the process WILL WORK. We need more people to engage the process to test it.

I agree that the system we have should be used, but it obviously has its flaws, and in order for the process to become better we should continue to evaluate the process. Right?
I don't agree that it obviously has faults. Insufficient data to say. I'm all for developing a new process, but I'd like to see this one given a college try... and continued in use while a new process is created.

I hate to watch the baby go out with the bathwater.... :(

Randii