24" Press Brake + Contraption.. rebuild?

[Todd W]

So, I got a 24" Press Brake + Contraption (http://www.4x4blog.com/20-ton-24-press-brake-my-new-toy/) and am wondering if I should gusset the contraption and continue using it or if I should rebuild it completely.

You can see the steel starting to stretch in the pictures attached. I was thinking I could just gusset the sides to distribute the load, or I could rebuild with stronger stuff.

Entire contraption:
http://www.4x4blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/4.jpg

It does not fit on the HF shop press, I've used it in there angled... but of course don't want to continue as it limits the usage as well as is kinda sketchy.

It works good and I can already think of a ton of usages for it.

So... rebuild or gusset and call it good:D

[Todd W]

Oh, and I have no idea why he used thin shit on the bottom and on the top it's like 5/16" walled tube.

[Jeepermat]

Hope ya didnt pay too much for it.
I would just gusset it, it looks like one of those projects that when you "rebuild" it you end up with a pile of scrap on the floor and a completely new tool.

[87JeepWrangler]

being on a limited budget, if it was mine, i would probably just add gussets. with proper support, that would probably continue to work perfectly for a long time. i would probably grind out the welds in question and re-weld those as well.


edit: i've been staring at the pictures some more, and noticed you said it can bend up to 120*. if you don't mind me asking, what is the angle on both the top and bottom pieces (don't know their technical name) where the actual bending takes place?

[Todd W]

Hope ya didnt pay too much for it.
I would just gusset it, it looks like one of those projects that when you "rebuild" it you end up with a pile of scrap on the floor and a completely new tool.

If you clicked the link you would have seen I got the 24" press brake and he threw that contraption in ;) Of course I wouldn't pay for that!!!

87JeepWrangler- I think that's probably what I'll do, and when I finish my welding legs, bandsaw legs, and a few other legs I have to make If I have leftover 3"x3"x5/16" i`ll make a new one :)

Thnx guys.

[X-Rated]

hmmmmm. What size ram are you using. 45 tons barely does 8" .25 plate I think. You would need a LOT of force to do 24"

Also, where is the V for the metal to get pushed into. Most have a block on the bottom with 4 V's vut out of it...

[Todd W]

hmmmmm. What size ram are you using. 45 tons barely does 8" .25 plate I think. You would need a LOT of force to do 24"

Also, where is the V for the metal to get pushed into. Most have a block on the bottom with 4 V's vut out of it...

This image is ONLY the contraption, the link in the first post shows the 24" press brake.

I am using a 20 TON air/hydro (also in link), and it can do 8" x .25" also in first post....

Anyway.... :D

[Todd W]

For those that miss the LINK in the FIRST post here's the press brake... not that it matters this is in great condition :)

[87JeepWrangler]

hmmmmm. What size ram are you using. 45 tons barely does 8" .25 plate I think. You would need a LOT of force to do 24"


the tonnage required to bend a given piece of material is greatly dependent upon the distance between top points of the V at the bottom of the press.

[X-Rated]

very true

I might be buying a big mill, and if I do, I might be making one of these as one of my first projects... Does look too hard. What angle are the V? 80 degrees or so.

[krugford]

Well, the ones you find online usually are for 90 degree bends. So I would say that the v-notch will 90+ degrees to account for springback.

[Todd W]

I've done around 125* with this playing around. I went tell it hit. The higher the degree the more stress you put on all your parts... at the end the chug-chug of the air/hydro is really slow going... it works though :D

[Todd W]

I think i`m going to cut the bottom 2 pieces of 4"x4" off and re-use the rest of it. The bottom weld region steel is almost ripping its pulled so much.

I`ll use my 5/16" walled tube, and put some 1/4" or 1/2" in that region, and then gusset the top portion, and the new bottom portion.

It should be plenty beefy with that stuff, and then I`ll stick it on my welding table and call it good.

[X-Rated]

I have been eyeing 50 ton bottle jacks and some 100ton. Think this would be a sweet thing to have in the shop.

[87JeepWrangler]

I have been eyeing 50 ton bottle jacks and some 100ton. Think this would be a sweet thing to have in the shop.

agreed. i assume there are different dies for different thicknesses. anyone know more about that?

[Todd W]

Do you guys plan to do huge pieces of 3/8" ??

[X-Rated]

http://www.americanmachinetools.com/pressure_table.htm

die 8x the thickness. to bend 1/4" plate, 24" long you need 30.6 tons.

[87JeepWrangler]

http://www.americanmachinetools.com/pressure_table.htm

die 8x the thickness. to bend 1/4" plate, 24" long you need 30.6 tons.

excellent link. thank you.

i don't think i'd ever need to bend a piece of 1/4" plate that was 2' long tho.

[Todd W]

http://www.americanmachinetools.com/pressure_table.htm

die 8x the thickness. to bend 1/4" plate, 24" long you need 30.6 tons.

Ok, do you plan on bending huge pieces of 1/4" :flipoff2:

My plan is to add a second 20ton air jack since they are uber cheap, that should give 40 tons and also equal out the pressure over the brake.

However, when I add a second jack I probably will get the 30" press brake, and make a new specialized bending press... then I can really utilize the width and extra power.

For now this thing is awesome for all types of garage, 4x4, and around the house bending.

I also don't have any plans to bend long lengths of 1/4" or 3/8" so it should work great :)

[Todd W]

excellent link. thank you.

i don't think i'd ever need to bend a piece of 1/4" plate that was 2' long tho.

Exactly that's I'm thinking/saying. I can't see the need of a 2' long piece of 1/4', hell even 1ft is longer than I've ever used on any rig. Realistically the only reason would be for a skid plate and I can see doing it there if you wanted... but for that length I'd personally probably just cut it, and weld it on the angle tube, not likeit has to be bent.

Maybe a winch plate or two, but again if you are using tube you can jsut weld the front piece on and it would look just as good and fit perfect.

[X-Rated]

I have also thought about doing 2 20 ton air over hydro to get 40 tons and a ram on each end to broaden the force, but I really have doubts as to how well it will be able to press evenly. If your piece is not perfectly centerd, the side with less metal on it will push faster than the side with more metal on it... I might be over thinking it but who knows... I think when I make mine I will use 1" or 1.5" solid rod as the guides to keep the top part of the brake straight. throw some springs on there like what you have shown, and probably just use a 50 ton bottle jack. The 2 20 ton air over hydro's is an interesting idea though. 2 foot bends out of 1/4" would be a skid plate, nothing more

[Todd W]

I have also thought about doing 2 20 ton air over hydro to get 40 tons and a ram on each end to broaden the force, but I really have doubts as to how well it will be able to press evenly. If your piece is not perfectly centerd, the side with less metal on it will push faster than the side with more metal on it... I might be over thinking it but who knows... I think when I make mine I will use 1" or 1.5" solid rod as the guides to keep the top part of the brake straight. throw some springs on there like what you have shown, and probably just use a 50 ton bottle jack. The 2 20 ton air over hydro's is an interesting idea though. 2 foot bends out of 1/4" would be a skid plate, nothing more

Scott @ RocKStomper used(uses?) 2 rams, I saw in his post. I wonder if he can contribute to this potential problem.

Skid Plate, either engine, tranny, transfer, or axle, or a winch plate, those are all I can come up with so far for why you need to bend 1/4" by 2ft... In reality (atleast for me) I`ll be using 3/16" more to save weight, and bracing more/properly to add more strength.

I need to lighten my pig up... right now I`m around 615lbs a corner up front *sprung*.

[Todd W]

So, I added some steel to the contraption and stuck it on my old bandsaw cart so I can move it around, and added the 20 TON air/hydro ram from HF to it. Pics coming soon :flipoff2:

I`ll get some video and pictures of it bending too, time to put it to the stress test and see what it can do before it goes kaboom :D

[rockmup]

I can bend 3/8 plate in my 20 ton press with no issues. However the plate's are only 8" wide max. I've even done 1/2" a few times and it worked well. The point is, you might consider making a setup that you use for doing smaller widths. Because you will end up jacking your die's doing small pices in a wide die.
My die's are 12"L x 1"thick for the upper and 1/2" flatbar welded in a "V" for the lower

[BruceTS]

However, when I add a second jack I probably will get the 30" press brake, and make a new specialized bending press...

Dang! why did I have to read this thread...... THANKS! just ordered a 29" press, now I have to get the jacks to build a stand alone set-up.

I'm getting this one.....
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_7902_7902



now to order the air jacks.....

[Todd W]

Dang! why did I have to read this thread...... THANKS! just ordered a 29" press, now I have to get the jacks to build a stand alone set-up.

I'm getting this one.....
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_7902_7902



now to order the air jacks.....

Sweet! That's the same as mine but I have the shorter one. If I rebuild it in the future I`ll make it large enough to use the 29" so I can upgrade :D Ideally, in the future I'd like to have an iron worker that has a 29" press brake in the middle, but we`ll see :p

Do you plan to use 1 or 2 air rams or go full hydro with 1 50ton or what?

Make sure you build it strong, stronger than you think. I was thinking about adding some tube 'guards' kind of like doors you cover the piece you are working on as well as the jack in case anything slipped at 20tons of pressure nothing goes flying across the shop and kills someone :eek:

[BruceTS]

I just missed out on getting the 20 ton jacks from HF(sale ended today), so now I'm thinking about that 50 ton one. I'll wait a week or so before deciding, besides that's how long it'll take before it shows up. I need to bend 11 gage plates 24" long and also will have to modify the dies since part of the plate will extend into the die area that needs to remain straight. the plan is to cut the bottom die to 24" length since I know I'll never need to bend anything longer, besides I have a 36" 3 in 1 shear/brake already for the lighter stuff.

[Todd W]

The HF press is not wide enough.

I have used this 24" in it but you have to angle it. Is that what you meant about modifying the HF press?

[BruceTS]

No not their press, just the bottle jack...... I'll build the framework from scratch.

[BruceTS]

instead of starting a new thread, I'll add to this one, since it inspired me to do the build-up.

I started with northern tools 40 ton 29" press brake. In actuality the die size is 26", they just rate the size by overall width.

I was able to get 2 - 20 ton air/hydro jacks at HF on sale and then it was off to buy the steel to build the frame work. So this was my weekend project....

http://img167.imagevenue.com/loc699/th_69185_DSC07666_122_699lo.jpg (http://img167.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=69185_DSC07666_122_699lo.jpg)

After inital assembly, I did a few test runs bending a 24" piece of 11 guage and then a 20" piece of 1/4". They bent like butter with hardly any load on the rams. I had planned on adding a few more braces, but decided it wasn't needed. This beast is heavy, total weight just under 300 lbs.

The gap to the left of the dies was intentional, since one of the pieces I bend has a section that would hit the framework and needs to remain straight. I simply cut the base plate and added a 6" section, same with the upper die...

Total cost came just under $700

[Todd W]

Sweet build.

IS the top bent already or is that an illusion?

How is it operating 2 jacks separately? Any problems?

[BruceTS]

It's just an illusion...... camera angle makes it looked bowed....

For now the jacks will stay on separate valves, this way I can pull them for other uses. I've read that there is a way to connect them so they apply equal pressure, but it seem to be more of a PITA to bother with. I could just put a level between the jacks to insure equal pressure.....