Ok i know the drill i did the search and read the posts. But i still dont see anyone say how they were able to convert there model 3 to hydro. I have found a used but in good condition enerpac air/hydro pump for 240, which is pushing the envelope of my budget as it is. But the porta power type cylinder thats just got one hose in is over 300 at a discount mail order place. Is there any way to use a cheaper hydraulic cylinder like what people are using on hydro steering? I know they have two line in to them. Is there a better way to do it than air/hydro for the money?

Thanks
Marknull

yes you can use the cheaper style cylinders but it will take some custom fab work.

I dont mind the fab work.i just need a little help with the specs on what would be a good cylinder to use and what would be a good supply source for the hydro. Any specs/pics would be helpful. How would you work a double action cylinder with a single action pump?Thanks
Mark

I am using my 10 ton porta power ram from harbor freight. I bought the whole kit for under $200.00. I can remove the ram from my bender and still straighten my body back out on the Jeep. my 02cents worth. Jim Aka Wilseya.

Does anyone have any pictures or spec on pumps or rams that i can use?Anything?

The stroke of the ram is about the only thing you will need to copy. I say go to northerntool.com and get a 2"ram 14" stroke ram with whatever ends look the easyest to make work. I think 14" stroke is what they use on their kit. Here is a 2.5"X14" but there are plenty of 2"X16" that would work fine.
http://www.northerntool.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/Category/NTE_LLCATDSP.d2w/report?cgrfnbr=425&PHOTOS=on&prlngth=902514.0000

Check ebay regularly. I purchased a Power Team, 14" stoke, 10 ton ram for $80.

I have been checking Ebay since i got my bender. I bid on a enerpac pump but it sold for more than i wanted to spend. I dont mind spending some money but would prefer it to be as little as possible. How would i plumb a two way cylinder with a air/hydraulic pump that is meant to work one way cylinders?

I'm still working on converting my bender so I can't give you all the answers but.. From my measurements I think you'd need at least a 16" stoke ram unless you plan on mounting it like the overpriced JD2 setup. This will give you a little bit of leeway and is the minimun and you will still have the reset the die on every hole and single shot 90s would be iffy. I'm using a 24" ram and it should have plenty of stoke to go past 90 without reseting the die. As I said it's still a work in progres so I don't know for sure, but I've looked at several working benders other local guys are using in their shops and they are all using closer to 36" stroke rams. I'm using the 24" solely because it was free. Before you commit to spending any money on a 14' ram I'd suggest you get a 14" travel stoke like a RS 9012 and do some mack up to see if it'll fit your needs. Just my opinion which I admit is very simular to an a$$hole.
Travis

I am currently building up a hydro JD2 Model 3, but am using a 24" stroke two-way cylinder from Northern. This setup should do 110+ deg in a single stroke. It does require custom fab for the mounting.

I checked single acting cylinders as well and decided I liked the two-way better. Neither way is cheap.
Jay

Ok now we are getting somewhere.i know its not going to be cheap but it doesnt have to be outrageous. Overkiller and Rocktoy.how are you planning on powering the ram? What kind of control valve?

What ever cylinder you get, make sure it is at least 2" ID. The first cylinder I had would only bend up to 1 1/2" tubing because it didn't have enough area on the piston. I have one that is 2 1/2" now and it will bend anything. I wouldn't get too carried away with how long you get it. Unless you offset where the ram anchors(out)Anything past 90deg. in one push puts a strain on the bender. Here is a picture of mine with the old cylinder. If you look at the bottom of the picture you will see a 3 position spring loadad control valve (out/neutral/in). That is how you control the cylinder in and out. The control valve also has a pressure regulator and a return line because my pump does not. You can get a control valve like this out of the Northern catalouge.
<IMG width=563 height=330 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/benderhyd.jpg">

I bought the 3" x 24" cylinder for $135. A 1hp 110V pump for $369. The valve (#2010, I think) is also a in/neutral/out with both sides spring loaded back to neutral. Valve was $62.

My bender stand is patially built and will have the bender fix anchored to the stand and the far end of the cylinder fix anchored to the stand.

I'm in TN right now but hope to be back home and working on the bender again this weekend. Sorry no pics of my setup right now.
Jay

Thanks for the info. I guess i need to talk to a local hydraulic guy here to see what kind of valve i need to run a 2 way ram off the air/hydro pump. Where did you find a 1hp hydro pump for less than 400? The only one o found was a used enerpac for 500.

I also had a hard time finding any parts that were reasonably priced so I went about it the junkyard way <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> . My dad works for the Gradall company and for those not familiar they make large hydraulic excavators. He pilfered me a pump off a machine that was getting scrapped out, a in - nuetral- out foot pedal, and a 24"x 2" 2 way ram he found on his travels. Cost 2 cases of <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> . So I have an old 220 volt motor off an air compressor that died and I plan on powering the modo bad boy pump with that. So I'll have to build a table, and buy hoses and a resevior then I should be in business. It's a trial and error sort of deal and not guarenteed to work right out of the box but it beats the $900 JD2 wants. I have some pictures of John Hunter's bender that I took for R&D (rip off and duplicate <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> ) but I'll be damned if I can find them right now. If they turn up I'll post them.
Travis

I ordered my pump (Barnes) from Northern.
Jay

OneTank5
Just be careful setting up a bender that as initialy set up with out hyd. The reason these company's charge the price's they do is it is there ass on the line. they have done extensive research and development. If you are going to set up a bender with hyd. try to match the manufacture specs as close as possable. I build benders and have put extensive research into this subject. I have posted pics under "what do you think of my bender"These are the high end benders $3500 If you need any help calculating the pump and cylinder sizing PM me.

Randy

Any thoughts on using, say, a long-stroke hydraulic jack to power a JD2?


8-Ton, 19" stroke (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=36397) - $60

Not exactly as easy to maneuver as using a Porta-Power (10-ton, $240 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37448) but cheaper.. and might beat manually ratcheting it.

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>Any thoughts on using, say, a long-stroke hydraulic jack to power a JD2?


8-Ton, 19" stroke (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=36397) - $60

Not exactly as easy to maneuver as using a Porta-Power (10-ton, $240 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37448) but cheaper.. and might beat manually ratcheting it.</STRONG>

I think that would be great, but I think those jacks have to be used vertically--mounting it horizontally like you'd need to for a bender would cause it not to function.

Originally posted by I Lean:
<STRONG>I think that would be great, but I think those jacks have to be used vertically--mounting it horizontally like you'd need to for a bender would cause it not to function.</STRONG>

I thought about that.. then got to thinking it'd be so unwieldy anyhow..

Probably best to mount it in a cradle of sorts similar to how it's oriented on a shop hoist.

Might get it high enough off the ground it wouldn't be a big deal that you were vending vertically and not horizontally? *shrug*

Port-a-power is lookin' like a better way to go..

Guess I'm going to need $750-ish for a bender , die, n' port-a-power.

I had the same idea about a air/hydro bottle jack. I saw one today at Harbor Freight and thought it would work great but was also wondering if it would work in a horizonal position and not vertical. After consulting the funds dept i may be bending this truck by hand. Now i have to mount my bender table to the floor somehow. Anyway thanks for all the info and ideas.
Mark

Originally posted by OneTonK5:
<STRONG>I had the same idea about a air/hydro bottle jack. I saw one today at Harbor Freight and thought it would work great but was also wondering if it would work in a horizonal position and not vertical. After consulting the funds dept i may be bending this truck by hand. Now i have to mount my bender table to the floor somehow. Anyway thanks for all the info and ideas.
Mark</STRONG>

Is it really that big of a deal to do it manually?

I would probably go that route for a while.. 'cept I'm putting the finishing touches on the outside of my new shop, and the 30x30 floor has 750' of 1/2" poly pipe in it for the radiant heat.. D'OH.. no idea where to drill to put anchors in the floor for a bender w/o hitting my heat pipe!

Either I anchor it to the wall, or to a work-bench (after I got the point where I'm building benches..)

Randy....i cant figure out how to PM you. My email is mccausey@mindspring.com. Thanks'
Mark

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>Is it really that big of a deal to do it manually?

I would probably go that route for a while.. 'cept I'm putting the finishing touches on the outside of my new shop, and the 30x30 floor has 750' of 1/2" poly pipe in it for the radiant heat.. D'OH.. no idea where to drill to put anchors in the floor for a bender w/o hitting my heat pipe!

Either I anchor it to the wall, or to a work-bench (after I got the point where I'm building benches..)</STRONG>

No it's not really a big deal to bend stuff manually. However it is a big deal to get the bender mounted solid. I had mine mounted to my mondo welding table and even tied to my air compressor, which is solidly anchored to the floor, it would deflect the table and scoot the it around. That is the main reason I'm converting. Also if you have a place where you can solid mount a bender and still swing a 20ft. stick around without hitting anything then I'd like to rent space in your shop <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">. It helps if you put down some old adhesive backed sanding disks on the ground in an arc around the bender so you can get some traction. Manual bending is pretty much a 2 person job since it's hard to measure the angle when you're shoving on the handle. Finally I like the repeatability of a hydralic setup, just measure the distance the ram is extended and duplicate it. That's my $.03.
Travis

Mark
have questions E-Mail me @ trailtoysfab@aol.com

Randy

I bought some of these floor anchors from Grangers, they mount flush with the floor and use bolts so that I can unbolt the bender and put it aside without tripping over the studs in the floor. I'll also be able to change the direction it's mounted, hopefully this will help with the 20' pieces of tube, I'll probably set it up this week when I can rent a drill.
<IMG width=320 height=200 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/Dcp_0018.jpg">

Not the greatest pic, but here is my conversion in progress.
Jay

<IMG width=500 height=375 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/bender15.jpg">

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: ROKTOY ]

Damn Jay you're kicking my butt <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> . Next time I'm in the area do you mind if i swing by and check out your setup? I still need to buy that other arm off you too. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
Travis

Sure Travis. The arm is yours for free whenever you want it.
Jay

Originally posted by Wilseya:
<STRONG>I am using my 10 ton porta power ram from harbor freight. I bought the whole kit for under $200.00. I can remove the ram from my bender and still straighten my body back out on the Jeep. my 02cents worth. Jim Aka Wilseya.</STRONG>

You have to reset the ram as you go, right? And use some of the extensions to get enough stroke?

I think most of the 10-ton Portapowers are around 6" stroke which'll mean resetting the ram - even for a 90-deg?

Down the road a dedicated (long-stroke) ram just for the bender would make this a little easier, right?

Hmmm...

I got the floor anchor things in, seems to work pretty well, they sit flush with the floor and don't even give a hint of moving around, even with a 6' long handle on the bender pulling 1 3/4 .120 wall DOM.