School ME PBB/Gorton Mills

[Hillbilly]

I searched and found some good things said about gortons, also some not so good things aswell. So let's hear the good and bad once again if you would.

First let me thank PTSCHRAM, I've pestered him via PM's. :D I'm a newb to mills and I'm trying to learn all I can.
I went and looked at a mill today. It was a 1-22 model, if my memory serves me correctly. Overall machine appeared and ran in good condition. I measured the bed to be 10" by 42". Owner started out asking 2500 for everything in the picture, but later came down to $1900. Can someone explain to me the Gorton taper? I was pushed for time and tried to write down everything the guy said about the machine. I rember him saying something about a NST 30?? I think I misunderstood him, because I haven't been able to find anything on the web along those lines.

Sorry for the fuzzy pics, all I had was my cell to snag pics.

[PTSchram]

NST30 is a tapered flanged tool holder. Not as convenient as an R-8, but not imposible to find either.

Enco, Grizzly and the other usual suspects will have tool holders for that taper, if that's your fear. I beleive you can also get collet chucks in that size to simplify things. If the taper is the only thing holding you up and the mill runs, makes no weird noises and is smooth, AND comes with tooling, it is probably a good idea. The fact that it does come with some tooling and a vice will save you some $ and let you get started amking chips right quick.

I'll look for some flanged tool holder examples for you.

edit:http://www.victornet.com/cgi-bin/victor/productlist.html?subdepartments=30%2C40%2C50+NST+T ooling%3A234%2C232

[d.d.machine]

there not a bad machine, but there is "no" parts for them and the spindle taper is there OWN and I would not take one home as a gift. But thats just me.
I own 5 bridgeports and one offshore mill. you can get a BP for about $2500 to $3000 if you shop around, parts are EVERYWERE and tooling is EVERYWERE cheap for them.

if you want a odd ball vertical mill buy a toolmaster . there like a BP but well take twice the cut and hold up GREAT. I just picked up a like new one from a school for $1,700 with tooling, DRO, 3 axis power feeds , and I mean its like show room "NEW"

[PTSchram]

if you want a odd ball vertical mill buy a toolmaster . there like a BP but well take twice the cut and hold up GREAT. I just picked up a like new one from a school for $1,700 with tooling, DRO, 3 axis power feeds , and I mean its like show room "NEW"

You do know we ALL hate you:flipoff2:

[PTSchram]

I own 5 bridgeports and one offshore mill. you can get a BP for about $2500 to $3000 if you shop around,

How long has it been since Bridgeports were made in America? They are now made offshore (England, among other places) aren't they? Edit: Looks like Bridgeport now belongs to Hardinge and they are made in the US, Switzerland, China and Taiwan.

If one is gonna spend $3000, wouldn't it be better to buy a new one from any of a number of retailers who have machines similar to the Bridgeport for not much more? You'd have a brand new machine with manufacturer (or at least from the retailer), could pick and choose exactly what you wanted and not have a 30 year-old piece of machinery that might be clapped out. If one buys a used piece of machinery, gets it home and finds there is something big wrong with it, you're screwed. If you buy a new one from Enco, Travers, Penn, even Grizzly, you've got a good shot at getting good customer service in resolving the issue.

I am sometimes amazed at the machinery fliers I get with vertical mills in the $3K to $5K range advertised.

[Hillbilly]

thanks for the info guys. I'm ready to buy, just trying to do all my research before I pull the trigger. I just don't want to be dissappointed with my decision, thus I turned to you all! The gorton comes with the tooling in the pic, but it's still got me scratching my head. I think I'm just gonna hold off on this one and plan on taking a trip up north as it seems that's where most of the good finds/buys are.

[Wicked_S10]

There are a lot of good things about a Gorton. They are significantly more rigid that a B'port or B'port clone. They were originially built to very tight tolerances. They are really exceptional machines. The only bitch I have about my old 0-16a is the GTM taper, but I solved that by making my own EM holders from import R8 tool holders. I now have the capability for much larger shank tooling that was ever offered when teh machine was built.

There is indeed a 30 taper, try searching ISO 30 taper. Enco sells 30 taper EM holders as well as lots of other 30 taper stuff. 30 and 40 taper are typically considered to be a better spindle taper than the B'Port R8.

$1900 is a lot of money, but if it in good shape, it is going to be a better mill than a B'port. Defenitely better than a import B'port clone. If it is GTM taper spindle, and not 30 taper, then it is not worth that much. I kind of doubt it is GTM, they quit using the GTM somewhere in the early 60's I think, and that one looks much newer.

There are lots of new parts available, but the price tag is fairly high in some cases. Famco now owns the right to produce Gorton parts, and sell everything you could need for the machines.

Later,
Jason

[Kendo]

I have a MasterMil 1-22 and I love it!! As mentioned, very rigid tight tolerance machine. It's a heavy pig, which attributes to these qualities as well.

I got mine with a Quick Change collet and full set of collets. Also picked up an extra Kurt vice as well as the one on the machine. The whole package ran me $1900. Oh, and it had a Sony 2 axis DRO mounted up as well. That alone made it worth the purchase.

I have heard of others having their machine retapered to take an R8, but I think this would be a very expensive process.

If the guy has a decent selection of collets with it at all, with maybe some extras in the more common sizes, I would pick it up. If it's for home hobby/fab use, you'll never have to be concerned about it. Yeah, you're probably not going to find a full set of collets down to 32nds, but how often does one really use those anyway.

There's a Yahoo Group out there for these machines too. Gorton's Grandson makes an appearance once in a while and is commited to preserving the legacy of his grandfather. It's a great source of information too, downloads of manuals and parts diagrams if you don't get them with your machine. Again, I was lucky and got a very complete unit.

Ken

EDIT: Link to Yahoo Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gortonmill/