www.bigcountrycustoms.com has stepped up in a big way and sponsored Ftoy #32 for the 2008 Rock Crawling Season. We will be competing under the Team BCC banner in the We-rock US Western Series and in the Canada Offroad Expo/We-rock events. Thanks to Taran, we will be in a much better position to compete with the more established teams.

The Plans for the 2008 rebuild.

-Shrinking wheelbase down to 106" (currently 112" perfect for trail wheeling IMHO but not so hot for cone dodging)

-Moving the motor back the full 8" and making sure its dropped the max 1" allowed in the Ftoy rules.

-New Warn Lay down winch (no more boat anchor upright)

-Whole new front end, grill, hood and skins for the whole rig.(need to look our best out there )

-Install New Diamond housings front and rear. (Thanks to Brian at Diamond Axles for helping make this possible, It'll be nice to not have to worry about bent axle housings ever again.)

Front is 5" wider than stock, Rear is IFS width, Disk brakes all around using a Sky diskbrake kit from Big Country Customs.

-Rear V6 third ARB, no more welded diff

-New Chromoly Rear Trail-Gear axle Shafts with 1/2" ARP wheels studs

-New Marlin Crawler Clocked Dual Case adapter.

-New and Improved Flatbelly skidplate.

-Trail-Gear's superduper Power steering pump and an upgrade to a 2" bore hydro assist ram.

-Relocating rear springs and making new shackle mounts to shorten the wheelbase 6" and to stop springs from kinking.

-As much as I like my carb I'm going EFI, picked up an 89 EFI setup

-Winches setup Front and rear to suck up the suspension.

-Bobby Longs latest Generation of 30 Spline birfs

And a bunch more stuff

A few pics of the Ftoy prior to tear down.

So after weeks of trying to squeeze myself into my schedule, I booked today off. Woke up and figured I really should go work at a jobsite for a couple hours...bad idea. I worked all day. Finally got home just before dinner and made room and got the truck into the shop.

I wanted to make some longer spring perches to help counter axle wrap.

and as an added bonus I got to use my dimple dies. Using a bolt got old fast so I did a 10minute, no cutting of steel, grab it all off the shorts rack and weld it dimple die press. I still need to add a backbone and some more bracing, but it did the job for my perches. going to add a small drain hole on the bottom side of the perches.

Measured the old diff angles, and tacked up the new perches.

Picked up some of my powder coated parts on Friday. Should look pretty good once its all together. :)

more more I want to see more....... Those perches are perty sweet

Not worried about the increased clamping area limiting spring flex?

Lookin good! Can't wait to see it down in socal.

Not worried about the increased clamping area limiting spring flex?

Nope. I've always ran longer perches.

Damn dude, you got alot of work to do in a little time. Are you gonna get that whole list done before Perris?

I know lots to do :(. But I'm doing everything in steps. So as soon as the front diff is in, I'll go do the back. Making sure its only a few hours away from running again. Most likely leave the EFI setup for last, since I know the motor runs as is.

All in all nothing is really new, just getting reworked. One bonus of being selfemployed is that I can give myself some full days/nights to work on it.

looking good! You should put some dimple die holes in the housing to lighten it up

Wife had to go do some PR work and scope out a venue for a bridal gown photo shoot, so I got kid duty. Figured I'd drag some work into the house. Got my ARB compressor plumbed up and ready to go.

This little ARB compressor I got through Big COuntry Customs is tiny.

The perch build pictures are awesome. I have been buying perches for my rigs. Never again. You made that look super easy.

Just make sure you tack the spacer in between good. I used 2x2x .25 wall on these ones, but have made them from 2x3,2x4 etc that and different spacers will give you different lift with from your perches.

If you weld up the little dip between the spacer and the blocks then grind it flat makes it easy to holepunch and drill the center hole.

Got a bit farther tonight after the kids went to bed. Stripped down the old housing, its a few ubolts away from coming out. Should have the new diff in and mocked up tomorrow.

sweet looking diamonds chris. The perches make mine look like shit.
Still have lots to learn. keep up the nice work, then follow up with pics:smokin:

looks great!!! doing good work. your will have a blingin ftoy when its all done.

Thanks for the compliments, its going to be a lot of late nights getting this thing done, I don't want to rush it, but the dealine is looming. Sure I wish I got started earlier, but the shop was full with paying work,and the weather up here has been pretty crappy this winter so no working outside.

Got a bit done tonight, broke out the solvent and cleaned up all my front knuckle parts, Installed ARP studs and new stock lower studs in my new knuckles, cleaned up my hubs, spindles etc.

Picked up a new electric fuel pump and filter for the efi, a couple fuel cut off valves.

Started planning out shock mounts for the front diff... coming along slowly.

what wheels are you running up front? just wondering if you are going to compensate for the wide front end...or you do you want it to be wide?

I'm running the TrailGear Creeper locks and BFG Krawlers, got them at the end of last summer. On my old diffs I had 2.5" wheel spacers to get max turning with these wheels and tires without spring rub (couldn't get no where close to max turn with the SX's and old wheels).

Now I'm going to be running no wheel spacers, and able to fully max out steering. I should be at around 75" outside of tires

I'm running the TrailGear Creeper locks and BFG Krawlers, got them at the end of last summer. On my old diffs I had 2.5" wheel spacers to get max turning with these wheels and tires without spring rub (couldn't get no where close to max turn with the SX's and old wheels).

Now I'm going to be running no wheel spacers, and able to fully max out steering. I should be at around 75" outside of tires

FYI with those tires, you could run wheels with more BS and still not rub.

just for reference. i run same wheels and tires and you are 2.5" wider than me and i dont rub and i am turning 38 degrees...which you cant do with 30 spliners without modifying the axle.

You need to run a longer short side axle to get the ubolts to fit on the passenger side without hacking up the diff housing, I also didn't want two custom axles. Its the same diff setup the Brian is running in the FROR ftoy. Its going to be a huge improvement over my old setup and the SX's, so I'm not worried about.

If anything it will help the rear wheels track better, a lot of trucks from OEM have a wider front track width.

Funny you mentioned the 30 spline axles, I was looking at some 27 splines a while back... ;)

Its the same diff setup the Brian is running in the FROR ftoy. Its going to be a huge improvement over my old setup and the SX's, so I'm not worried about

yes, i am sure it will work great and way better than before. i was just letting you know my setup for reference.

ya, and most buggies including mine have narrower rear ends, it tends to work out good.

FYI with those tires, you could run wheels with more BS and still not rub.

just for reference. i run same wheels and tires and you are 2.5" wider than me and i dont rub and i am turning 38 degrees...which you cant do with 30 spliners without modifying the axle.

HUH?! The least every 30 spline we've checked came it at 37, most at 38 degrees. At this point you are crushing the wiper plates/felts etc, but does not require any change to the 30 spline Longfields. Are you measuring on the rig? We're measuring with kingpins horizontal on the table, with longfields installed.

we measured the birfielf out of the housing and knuckle. we measured 3 sets of 30 spliners and they all came to 35 degrees. the knuckle will turn further than the birfeld. the felts all crush around 38 degrees or more. one side more than the other. the birfield on the 27 spline alxe will turn further because the bell has further to go before it hits the axle. i told you all this before.:p
i can also get 40 degrees but it would take more work than what i am willing to spend on it.

Got a bit more done tonight.

Lower shock mounts...the mount still needed to be notched to fit over the knuckle gusset.

Got the diff in the truck. I was very happy to see it sitting there :smokin:

Shock mounts notched over knuckle gusset and tacked in.

Knuckled bolted up for mock up of the hydro assist, and to get tie rod and drag link measurements.

Looks like I got perch angles right where I wanted them :grinpimp:

A bit more work on the front diff and I can tear out the springs and everything for paint
:beer:

Looking good

You need to run a longer short side axle to get the ubolts to fit on the passenger side without hacking up the diff housing, I also didn't want two custom axles. Its the same diff setup the Brian is running in the FROR ftoy. Its going to be a huge improvement over my old setup and the SX's, so I'm not worried about.

If anything it will help the rear wheels track better, a lot of trucks from OEM have a wider front track width.

Funny you mentioned the 30 spline axles, I was looking at some 27 splines a while back... ;)

So the front Diamond is +5 all on the short side and uses a stock long side inner? Cool.
I would really love a Diamond for mine. If it only requires one custom inner that would get be closer $$$ wise.

Nice Dimpled holes :D:D

So the front Diamond is +5 all on the short side and uses a stock long side inner? Cool.
I would really love a Diamond for mine. If it only requires one custom inner that would get be closer $$$ wise.

He will set one up however you want it. IIIRC, My +6 is +4 on the short side, and +2 on the long side, which puts the diff 1" towards center from stock.

As Pook noted, the diff must be offset towards center if you are using stock leaf spring spacing, or else fab up a special perch for the passenger side, because the diamond shape is wider than the stock diff.

we measured the birfielf out of the housing and knuckle. we measured 3 sets of 30 spliners and they all came to 35 degrees. the knuckle will turn further than the birfeld. the felts all crush around 38 degrees or more. one side more than the other. the birfield on the 27 spline alxe will turn further because the bell has further to go before it hits the axle. i told you all this before.:p
i can also get 40 degrees but it would take more work than what i am willing to spend on it.

Here's the big thread that had most of the measurements from a couple years back:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461263&highlight=longs+degrees

Here's the big thread that had most of the measurements from a couple years back:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461263&highlight=longs+degrees

ya i remember that thread, there is a bunch of misleading info in it. longfield used to have a 30 spliner that would turn far...dont know how much for sure as i didnt have one. then he changed the design because the bell was too weak, and people wanted strength over turning radius. if you want to turn the bell down, you can get the birfield to turn farther. the knuckle and steering doesnt matter, that stuff can be worked around. either way, i already got my ftoy turning farther than others and i can get it to turn farther. i dont think it will be an issue this year as werock wont be setting up parking lot courses for us.

Funny you bring this up. Can you guys get your knuckles to turn to 40 degrees? Soon we are making the 30 spline birfs that will go to 40 degrees easy.

Funny you bring this up. Can you guys get your knuckles to turn to 40 degrees? Soon we are making the 30 spline birfs that will go to 40 degrees easy.

yes i can get my knuckles to turn 40 or more if i want them to. sounds like a cool product bobby.

they bobby, it was good seeing you at the KOH race. after i came up the waterfall on wrecking ball, i didnt expect to see you hanging out there, lol. i know its such a far drive and all. good times!:)

Funny you bring this up. Can you guys get your knuckles to turn to 40 degrees? Soon we are making the 30 spline birfs that will go to 40 degrees easy.

We can get them to 40degrees :D

Thanks for getting the stuff back out to me so quick. Couldn't get down there today, but will be tomorrow or Saturday :beer:


I had to work late on a paying job today, so didn't get much done tonight.

Measured up and ordered up a new tierod and draglink, ripped off the old hyrdo assist.

Fabricated up a diff mount for my new hydro assist, I'm upgrading to a 2" bore ram to get a little more grunt.

I still need to drill and plate the holes for the cylinder, but it looks like it all should line up nicely.

killer looking fab work!!!

killer looking fab work!!!

Thanks, I think its not to shabby for not owning a plasma cutter :D Did it all with a zipdisk,belt sander and a vise (other than the dimple dies and hole saws).

I wish I had time to go over the whole rig again lots of stuff I'd change. but right now its just the essentials.

... i dont think it will be an issue this year as werock wont be setting up parking lot courses for us.

Can you give any more info on this? A few decisions I need to make on the rebuild and part of the decision is trying to figure out what we should be expecting for courses.

Nice work me like it.:D

I'll try to not spot you into situations that break all your new bling:laughing:I promise......

This season will be :mr-t: :grinpimp:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=358755&stc=1&d=1205397269

Shipping to 59901? :D


Any rhyme or reason to putting the ram mount off the tube vs. off the top of the diff? You get more pressure on the side of the ram without the piston...i.e. slightly more turning power left with the ram on the diff, or slightly more turning power right with the ram on the axle tube.

I upsized to a 2" bore ram which has an 8" stroke (will be limiting it back). On my old setup (1.5" bore) I had it off the pumpkin and things cleared fine, but with the 2" bore, and the diamond housings I could get the ram mounted lower on the driver's side than the passenger side which gives me more room for uptravel.

Not to much to show, had to work on the tow rig on Sunday. Other than a oil change it should be ready for the trek south.

I made new u-bolt plates, picked up new u-bolts. Got the old panels stripped off, took out the seats so I could figure out the new floor situation and the new t-case mounts. I also started prepping to shorten the wheelbase 5-6" in the back and making parts to get things ready for rear Diamond housing.

Started on perches similar to the fronts, and started on my traction bar. Still need to make the diff mounting plates. This is a revised version of my old one. I have my gas tank mounted really low, so I need to keep my traction bar as low as possible on the diff.

I still want decent vertical separation so I made the bushing mount 8" apart but on a horizontal plane instead of vertical. My old setup worked great for a year and half and then decided to snap off right where I was going to gusset once I got just one test run in... I think this one should last a little while.

Look out America......Team Canada is aiming for the big dogs.:grinpimp:

Looks good mang.:mr-t: Do I every get to drive that thing in our comps? Better not.....I'm a better spotter.:p

Fawk that traction bar looks sweet! :smokin:
What thickness steel did you use?

very nice!

Fawk that traction bar looks sweet! :smokin:
What thickness steel did you use?

I used 10g. sheet and a piece of 2"x2" .25" tubing. I was going to make it all from sheet steel, but I don't have a cnc plasma and need to go to my Dad's shop to use his hand held. I broke one made of 1.75 x .25" Dom last year at the Hammers. I figure this one should do the job.

Look out America......Team Canada is aiming for the big dogs.:grinpimp:

Looks good mang.:mr-t: Do I every get to drive that thing in our comps? Better not.....I'm a better spotter.:p

Well if we need to stack some big rocks we may need to switch spots :p

I dunno since your American and I'm Canadian its more like team NATO.

Made some rear spring brackets. They aren't done yet, still need to cut off the corners etc and make them a bit prettier. Not to fancy, I used a set of Trail gear spring brackets I got from BCC, to try and save some time. They are buried under the rig so need to go overboard on fanciness.

Made the diff mounts for the traction bar, need to cut the brackets in half to get them on and then I'm going to add a bit more material to beef them up a bit more.

Spent a lot of time stripping off stuff. Ripped out the rear diff and springs. Pulled out wiring, and started working on motor/drivetrain placement.

Got a plan should be a good day tomorrow.

Don't feel like I got much done today, had to work a bit this morning/afternoon. Cut out my old rear floor section and all the cross members. Had a fun time removing the old leaf mounts, its a real pain in the ass removing something you welded on so it'd never come off

Ended up having to remove some of the old fish plating I did for the old mounts so I could get the new mounts to sit flat. Found a soft spot in the frame which I had to fix up. I'm probably still going to add a few gussets to the mounts. They seem solid enough but I just want to make sure.

Made a big mess of my shop. Tomorrow is going to have to start with a clean up.

With the shortened wheelbase, are you still going to run your 51" rears with the pins to the back? What setup will you be using for the rear shackles?

Thats the plan. Not sure on shackles yet.

Thats the plan. Not sure on shackles yet.

Gotcha. Was curious if you were able to fit the shackle hangers in there with your fuel cell setup. Looked like to get the shorter wheelbase with those rear springs, you'd have to move the shackle hanger up a few inches in front of the rear crossemember, which if you were inboarding would hit your fuel cell.

Gotcha. Was curious if you were able to fit the shackle hangers in there with your fuel cell setup. Looked like to get the shorter wheelbase with those rear springs, you'd have to move the shackle hanger up a few inches in front of the rear crossemember, which if you were inboarding would hit your fuel cell.

I actually have a good 10" between the fuel cell and the frame rails. Shackles are going in between the 2. Its getting moved forward a good 5-6"

That traction bar is INCREDIBLE!:smokin:

I just hope it holds together :)

Good Job Pook!

You really are serious and look to be tough competitor. If I remember correctly, 1 course was the difference last year between your finish and the podium. A new rig and hard work and you'll be tough!

Good luck!

Goldendales C4 kicked our butts last year.

Since Goldendale we competed in a local event up here placing third in the "pro mod" class, and picked up some radio's. With the new mods and the Krawler's we should be in good shape for this season.

Getting closer.

Rear of the rig is actually sitting back down on its own weight. Still a bit of bracing, gussets and welding to do.

I also got the old rad ripped out and made plans for the motor, winch and the new rad setup.

This is real nice. :D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=360893&stc=1&d=1206258560

I like the setup on your rear shackles :smokin:

Thanks guys, I beat my head in trying to figure out the best way to move the shackles forward. I still need to brace it a bit more.

I was making good progress the last few days. I got the old floor all cut out, re and re'd my tcases, built a fresh crawlbox, and cut off the old motor mounts repositioned. Ran into a snag when I went to put my new dual case adapter on :( I bought it from Marlin before Christmas, and had just opened the box when it got here and saw that it had all the usual parts in the box, and threw it on the shelf. I ordered a new clocked adapter but found a standard one in the box. Some miscommunication I guess. They are exchanging it but, can't wait all those days to get the new one. So I called up Big Country Customs and they hooked me up luckily they had one coming in so I should have a Clocked adapter to use tomorrow.

Thanks to "NoBrainR" in the toy forum I got some pictures and dimensions I needed so I could mock up my tranny/bellypan and get my motor tacked into position.

:beer:

Got my t cases in so I could start building the new flatbelly. I am making the new belly pan bracing permanent, and making sure the tcases and stuff can all be accessed from the top. I had to pull the old belly pan on the trail last year and it was a pain in the ass. Got my new radiator from summit racing, BCC hooked me up with some new custom length hi steer links. So I messed around with the hydro assist setup and turning degree's. Got a bit of work to do to get max steering.

I also cut off all my old front end stuff to make room for the new winch and rad setup. Moved the motor back the full 8" allowed and dropped it the max 1" allowed by the ftoy rules.

I modified a FROR tcase mount and did something similar to the one in their f toy. I made extra sure that I had enough room to pull the case off the transmission. Last time I had just enough room and it was a real pain.

I hole sawed the crossmember so I could slip a piece of 3.5"tube in and weld it up. Now I can run my exhaust through the crossmember instead of over it. Floor is 1"x2" x.125 wall and will be getting more gussets and bracing. I'm still extending it farther forward and back aswell.

Planing on skinning the bellypan with aluminum and UMHW.

looking really good...

looking really good...

Thanks, just hope I can get a lot wrapped up this weekend. The countdown clock on the www.we-rock.cc page is haunting me

The stress of getting done is starting to pick up.

Gettign closer. With all the stuff fighting for space on the front diff, I had a bit of figuring out to do. Should be a good pull for the winch to suck down the front end.

So one of the things that held me up. I bought a summit racing generic small aluminum rad, I needed to change the radiator tubes, because they were in the opposite corners of where I needed them, plus I need to clear the winch and steering box. So on Tuesday I cut the tube and drilled/dremel'd the rad for the new tubes. waited to the last minute thinking I should have everything else in place prior to routing the new tubes.

I'm not setup for tig welding at my shop, so I went to a friends shop who tig welds all the time. He had just sold his old tig setup and bought a new Miller inverter style welder, no biggee he's been tig welding aluminum for years. He put on a brand new bottle of Argon on, and we get to it. Well the damn thing wouldn't weld, and when it did it was dirty as hell. We mess around and grind out, and re clean the tubes and radiator. Try again, still nasty and not taking. He doesn't know why its not working, so we call up a friend who's welding instructor at BCIT. He calls me when he's from work and I head on over. He had run out of Argon and brought home a new bottle. So we get setup, reclean and grind out the crap welds. Damn thing welds a bit better but still dirty and porous. So he's pissed off. We try a bunch of other scraps of aluminum and they are better but still not right. He thinks its the gas. Sure enough my other friend and him both buy gas from the same supplier. He wants to make sure thats what it is, and I need to get it welded so we head off to BCIT, Its after 10:00pm now and all the students have gone home so we got the shop to ourselves. Regrind out the old welds, clean it all up and sure enough welds right up. He guessed it was a combo of bad Argon, and not so clean material just pushing it over the edge.

I get back home around 12:30 am. Pretty much took my whole afternoon and night. At least they finally got welded. Sorry no pics of the nastiness. I was starting to freak out at that point.

The radiator real early Wednesday morning in its new home. its getting tight in there.

I've started taken a few things back apart to redo since I started to rush things trying to them to get done for Perris.

I've also started on the EFI setup, I'm going to be working on it as much as possible so I can get it done in the next couple weeks. I don't want to be doing anything but polishing it up the week prior to Cedar City.

sneak preview of my new bumber and grill :grinpimp: not quite done yet but should look good. :beer:

That looks sweet...:D

nice work, I realy like the fj grill:beer:

Thanks.

Currently have a EFI intake a harness stripped apart on the coffee table. Hopefully get that wrapped up and on the truck this weekend. I'll post some more pics soon

Chris, did you skin your belly pan solid? Looks like your tranny/t-case access is through the cab, correct?

How was cooling with the Speedway radiator?

thanks, Shawn

Belly pan is skinned in 10g aluminum and 3/8" hmnw or whatever they call that slippery plastic stuff.

I used to have a fully removable belly pan and had to to remove tranny,tcases etc from the bottom. I gave up on that and welded in the new bellypan crossmembers solid and made everything accesible from the top.

Truck seems to be cooling fine. I do need to make a better fan shroud though, I get some air blowing out the sides without going through the rad.

I used to have a fully removable belly pan and had to to remove tranny,tcases etc from the bottom. I gave up on that and welded in the new bellypan crossmembers solid and made everything accesible from the top.

That's great to know. I had been planning on making a removeable belly section, but couldn't figure out how to make the floor and belly stiff enough, so I'll probably go hard floor and removeable tranny tunnel.

I may try the same radiator, too. :smokin:

very nice work!!

A few pics of it out on a trail run.

Entrance pics to a new "hardcore" trail in the PNW called the Outlet Mall. Its a good one with lots of climbs, drops, big rocks and off camber goodness combined with dirt and mud to liven it up.

Sorry no pics of the actual trail :( I was lucky Crash took these ones

Throw up some pics of you ol' canadian wheeling, eh! Id like to get up there sometime, and want to know what Im in for!

Sad thing is I've only gotten out locally a couple times this year :( between comps and my business and the wifes new photography business (weddings, family and baby photo's) my work weeks and weekends are busy. My son just turned 2 so he'll be ready for next summer to tag along with Dad.

Looks good

Looking great. Canada wheeling looks a lot like east coast wheeling.

Looking great. Canada wheeling looks a lot like east coast wheeling.

Those pics are actually of a trail in WA state near Seattle call Reiter Trails or Reiter Pit (some people take offence to the "Pit" name).

But its very similar wheeling to what we have up here.