Help me build/revive my big 5hp compressor please!

[Nowhere]

What's 6' tall, is green, and weighs about 600 lbs?

W@@T, my champion 5hp 175psi 2 stage compressor!

Here's the scoop. The motor/electronics fried at work one day when we lost a phase. It was an older compressor, so they just bought a new t30 IR unit.
It was either build this setup or buy a HF/sears/lowes/HD/ETC 500 dollar compressor (single stage, 3 hp motor, nothing special).

I have remove the old motor, compressor, and ALL The fittings. The inside of the tank has rust (it's 17 years young...), but it does not leak. Overall, the compressor needs some cleaning, but it seems like a sound setup.

I'm going to run COPPER tubing in the garage for the two main air drops. The copper tubing is about 18 dollars per 10 foot section at home depot (it's the thicker M?? grade?, the thinner L?? grade is about 12 dollars per 10 feet).

After doing research, here are the things I'm going to buy. I'd like your input on these (good, bad, use this one instead, bad idea, etc.)

A baldor L1430T 5hp 1740rpm 1.15sf t184 220v 1 phase motor:
The baldor specs on the motor (http://www.baldor.com/products/specs.asp?1=1&catalog=L1430T&product=AC+Motors&family=General+Purpose%7Cvw%5FACMotors%5FGeneralPu rpose&winding=36WGT077&rating=40CMB%2DCONT)

Ebay link to motor (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-5HP-BALDOR-AIR-COMPRESSOR-ELECTRIC-MOTOR-L1430T_W0QQitemZ190204715828QQihZ009QQcategoryZ414 99QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l124 7QQcmdZViewItem)

5hp Siemens magnetic starter
Ebay link for 5hp siemens starter (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Siemens-Single-Phase-5-HP-Magnetic-Starter-NEMA-1_W0QQitemZ230172859360QQihZ013QQcategoryZ42895QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

New pressure switch
Ebay Pressure switch (http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-new-Furnas-Pressure-Switch-69JF9LY-140-175_W0QQitemZ190196865712QQihZ009QQcategoryZ67006Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

New tank check valve
Ebay link (http://cgi.ebay.com/IN-TANK-CHECK-VALVE-3-4-X-3-4-pipe-thread-MF3434BU_W0QQitemZ260218083740QQihZ016QQcategoryZ5 6993QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

New pop off valve
Ebay link (http://cgi.ebay.com/SAFETY-POP-OFF-VALVE-NPT-200PSI-1205_W0QQitemZ260118623445QQihZ016QQcategoryZ56993 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

And some new stickers :D
ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Warning-Labels-Air-Compressor-and-Machinery-Universal_W0QQitemZ260206302563QQihZ016QQcategoryZ 42247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I plan on running 8-2 NM-B wire to the starter. Home depot seems to have the best price. I've got about a 40 foot run, ebay prices on the wire + shipping are greater than local prices + tax.

I have a FPE (yes, it's a stablok!!) main pannel. Overall, I think I'll be ok for adding a few circuits to the panel. We have a 150 main panel outside. I'll be adding the compressor run, 2 20a cord reel drops, and a seperate switched overhead lighting curcuit. As of now, the entire garage is on one circuit, when she goes, everything goes!

Based on the few hours of reading/research I've done, I think I know what I need to run the compressor. I'm thinking either a 30 or 40 amp 2 pole breaker and 8-2 wire (no 110 on this run, seperate wire/breakers..). Should I run the cable bare in the attic and run conduit to a breakout box on the block wall?

If I understand how the breakers work, the 100+ amps of startup current should not trip a 30/40 amp breaker. The FLA rating on that baldor motor is only 20 amps, even @ service factor, it's only 24 amps. I think if I go a little over on the breaker I'm still ok. The starter has a heater protection circuit in it (that protects the motor from burning up if it's overloaded or stalled right?).

I think I have the compressor mechanics worked out, I need the most help/sugguestions/pointers in the electrical setup area. I'm comfortable working with 220 and understand the 2 hots + neutral + ground setup.

Pictures to follow

[Nowhere]

I forgot the Baldor mechanical specifications:
Baldor specs (http://www.baldor.com/products/perfdata.asp?1=1&catalog=L1430T&product=AC+Motors&family=General+Purpose%7Cvw%5FACMotors%5FGeneralPu rpose&winding=36WGT077&rating=40CMB%2DCONT)

There's a baldor l1410 option too. The 1410 seems to be a little more powerful, but less efficent.
baldor link to the 1410 motor (http://www.baldor.com/products/perfdata.asp?1=1&catalog=L1410T&product=AC+Motors&family=General+Purpose%7Cvw_ACMotors_GeneralPurpos e)

[Stephenw]

Deja Vu????

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=656235&highlight=compressor

[Todd W]

I`ve tripped the 30amp breaker once when my compressor kicked on while being `hot`, I do not have a magnetic starter on it. (5hp motor)

For $65 I may stick one on it and see if that prevents it from kicking the breaker, not sure it will, but it should prevent my pressure switch wires from glowing :eek:

[85blue4runner]

I realise you are running a tank check valve, not sure how fast they work, but I have seen a few NASTY pics of injuries and death from exploding tanks or compressors.. A 17 year old rusting tank would not be my first choice...

[Nowhere]

I realise you are running a tank check valve, not sure how fast they work, but I have seen a few NASTY pics of injuries and death from exploding tanks or compressors.. A 17 year old rusting tank would not be my first choice...

Oh come on, that post was not confirmed.. It was a picture of some dead guy. The other one was an oxygen tank..

ASME tank + rust = pinholes.

QUOTE

Deja Vu????
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...ght=compressor

Yep, that's the one. She's in the garage now, gotta love FREE!!!!!!!!! Persistance paid off!

Quote
I`ve tripped the 30amp breaker once when my compressor kicked on while being `hot`, I do not have a magnetic starter on it. (5hp motor)

For $65 I may stick one on it and see if that prevents it from kicking the breaker, not sure it will, but it should prevent my pressure switch wires from glowing

Seems most pressure switches do not have high amperage contacts in them? I don't think the starter will help SOFT start the motor, just kill the power in the event of a stall. I think..

[DSW]

I realise you are running a tank check valve, not sure how fast they work, but I have seen a few NASTY pics of injuries and death from exploding tanks or compressors.. A 17 year old rusting tank would not be my first choice...

Actually what you are refering to is what I believe he calls the pop off valve. This is a pressure relief and should go as soon as the tank pressure reaches the set pressure. I'll assume that it is big enough to handle the volume of the compressor so that shouldn't be a problem. The tank will never reach a dangerous pressure if properly installed. That said I'm not sure if what you consider rusty is what I would. Light to moderate rust wouldn't be to bad but I'd do what I could to remove it. If nothing else to protect you tools from the contaminents and to get a better idea of the tanks condition. Heavy pitting or a pin hole leak I would scrap the tank, not worth the hazzard.

[Nowhere]

Actually what you are refering to is what I believe he calls the pop off valve. This is a pressure relief and should go as soon as the tank pressure reaches the set pressure. I'll assume that it is big enough to handle the volume of the compressor so that shouldn't be a problem. The tank will never reach a dangerous pressure if properly installed. That said I'm not sure if what you consider rusty is what I would. Light to moderate rust wouldn't be to bad but I'd do what I could to remove it. If nothing else to protect you tools from the contaminents and to get a better idea of the tanks condition. Heavy pitting or a pin hole leak I would scrap the tank, not worth the hazzard.

There's very little rust on the outside of the tank, the only rust I found was on the inside of the tank. There's some surface rust on the walls and some more rust @ the bottom of the tank. I'll see if I can get a picture.

How would one go about removing interrior rust? I do not have child hands :D

[Todd W]

There's very little rust on the outside of the tank, the only rust I found was on the inside of the tank. There's some surface rust on the walls and some more rust @ the bottom of the tank. I'll see if I can get a picture.

How would one go about removing interrior rust? I do not have child hands :D

Pretty much any tank a couple years old is going to have slight rust inside unless it's $$ coated inside.

The magnetic starter should fix the overheating problem on my pressure regulator, it wont be the full 220 going there :eek:

[DSW]

Nowhere I'll assume you pulled the 2" plug to see inside. A light haze of surface rust is normal, its the flakey rust you want to worry about. that shows signs of material loss. Maybe minor, maybe serious can't tell with out seeing it. I use a small 10w halogen bulb on a cord to see in tanks. Its the remnants of one of those low voltage hockey puck lights. Its a small drop light that I can lower down inside to get a good view of the tank.

I'd start by trying to vacume out the rust with a 1 1/4" shop vac hose. I tumble the insides of tanks but they are a lot smaller than what you have, I've seen it done, but you won't have the equipment to turn a tank that big.

A sand blaster with a long nozel might work. I built one to do a job years ago. One of the siphon feed types. Took off the nozel and added a long piece of 1/4" SS tube to get where I needed to go. You could bend the tube some what to get into harder areas. You will have to stop and vacume out the sand after a short bit. I'd also take out every plug to let out as much air as posible. This will not be fun and I'd only recomend it if the tank looks good on the sides but shows signs that it might have had water sitting in the bottom for a good period. It will make sense once you vac out any loose rust.

I hezitate to suggest things like naval jelly or rust dissolvers. Most are acid based and I just don't like the idea of acid in a pressure vessle. You would have to neutralize it and then flush it well.

Maybe a pressure washer would knock off some loose rust. Wear you rain gear. Get it as dry as posible afterword.

good luck

[DSW]

Nowhere I'm also curious if you have the link to the O2 tank explosion picts. If its about the one I"m thinking of I knew the person who was killed but have lost my copies of the picts of the accident. I would like them as part of a class I am putting together for O2 work in diving. You can PM me if you would perfer. Thanks

[Sanctifier]

Hi Nowhere. This is the Baldor motor that came with my 5hp/80 gal CompAire-Kellogg: L1410T... 5HP, 1725RPM, 1PH, 60HZ, 184T, 3640LC, OPEN, F1
Link--> Baldor spec sheet (http://www.baldor.com/products/specs.asp?1=1&catalog=L1410T&product=AC+Motors&family=General+Purpose%7Cvw%5FACMotors%5FGeneralPu rpose&winding=36WGW849&rating=40CMB%2DCONT)
...I use a small 10w halogen bulb on a cord to see in tanks...
...vacume out the rust with a 1 1/4" shop vac hose...

A sand blaster with a long nozel might work... One of the siphon feed types. Took off the nozel and added a long piece of 1/4" SS tube to get where I needed to go... I'd also take out every plug to let out as much air as posible... It will make sense once you vac out any loose rust.

Maybe a pressure washer would knock off some loose rust. Wear you rain gear. Get it as dry as posible afterword.
Thanks for the tips DSW. I want to repaint my 5hp, 80 gal vertical soon.

Think I'll use baking soda as the blast media after trying your cleanup tips.
It's water soluble so cleanup (with Steam Wash) is safer than alternatives. Also it leaves a film that tends to resist rust formation. Film causes adhesion problems for paint unless removed with warm water... but that should be an advantage here.

After I'll add two eBay buys... Speedaire (electric) Aftercooler (mounted before entry to receiver) to reduce (prevent?) water condensation in the receiver in the first place
... and Arrow Refrigerated Air Dryer, (mounted at start of pipe layout.) Hopefully this will solve future rust problems (receiver) or any other moisture issues (air tools.)

Can't afford copper so using 1" galvanised pipe instead. Comments and advice appreciated.
Thanks.

[Sanctifier]

:: Double post... :shaking:

[Todd W]

IMHO you guys are over complicating the interior of the tank.

Look how many huge shops use air daily and use the same tank for years and years w/out cleaning the inside.

You can pick up new tanks for ~100 bux so why waste a day blasting the inside of a tank, use it until it leaks then replace it.

[Stephenw]

IMHO you guys are over complicating the interior of the tank.

Look how many huge shops use air daily and use the same tank for years and years w/out cleaning the inside.

You can pick up new tanks for ~100 bux so why waste a day blasting the inside of a tank, use it until it leaks then replace it.

Where can you get a new tank for $100??? Most places I checked wanted as much for a tank as you would pay for a whole 60 gallon compressor.

[Todd W]

Where can you get a new tank for $100??? Most places I checked wanted as much for a tank as you would pay for a whole 60 gallon compressor.

Local craigslist has them for 100 bux. The guy was buying them for parts and reselling the tank.

-Todd

[nissancrawler]

Where can you get a new tank for $100??? Most places I checked wanted as much for a tank as you would pay for a whole 60 gallon compressor.

I got a brand new Dewalt 30 gallon tank off ebay for around $80 shipped.

[Sanctifier]

Local craigslist has them for 100 bux. The guy was buying them for parts and reselling the tank.
^ ^ ^ I live in the Caribbean, so "Pick up only" items on Craig's List and eBay are not available to me... and a replacement 80 gal vertical tank (+ shipping) will cost more than I paid for the whole compressor ($560.) :)

It's in GREAT condition anyhow. I just want to repaint (and relabel) it before putting it into service, so taking a week or two more is not a problem. :cool2: eBay price was VERY good and with the cost of compressors here, :shaking: even adding a valve kit & gasket replacement kit is still good value for me.

Anyhow back on topic... Nowhere, IMHO you may be better off buying the (slightly) cheaper 5hp Baldor + a new gasket kit for the pump... instead of the more expensive L1410T which you say is less efficient.

My $0.02¢

[Nowhere]

IMHO you may be better off buying the (slightly) cheaper 5hp Baldor + a new gasket kit for the pump... instead of the more expensive L1410T **which you say is less efficient.**

My $0.02¢

Baldor says it's less efficent too :P

The L1410T does have MORE STARTING (ie, locked rotor) torque though..
It can run in hotter enviroments too..

The L1430T has more running torque and more power though.

L1430T performance numbers (http://www.baldor.com/products/perfdata.asp?1=1&catalog=L1430T&product=AC+Motors&family=General+Purpose%7Cvw%5FACMotors%5FGeneralPu rpose&winding=36WGT077&rating=40CMB%2DCONT)

L1410T performance numbers (http://www.baldor.com/products/perfdata.asp?1=1&catalog=L1410T&product=AC+Motors&family=General+Purpose%7Cvw%5FACMotors%5FGeneralPu rpose&winding=36WGW849&rating=40CMB%2DCONT)

I think a vacuum cleaning of the bottom of the tank will be a good start for me. That will show how much or what type of rust exists in the bottom of the tank.

Thanks for the input, keep it coming :D
Need to look harder for the camera... :homer:

[Nowhere]

?#$%(#@&$, who bought that motor!

[nissancrawler]

?#$%(#@&$, who bought that motor!

They post them all the time, that's their regular price, just contact them. I got that exact motor for the one I'm building through them, they're (Weco group) a good company.

[Nowhere]

Oh well, the 1410 motor is coming in. She's got more starting torque. Might cost 40 dollars more per year :D

[Nowhere]

She's stripped and cleaned inside and out. The inside rust is all superficial. I used my pressure sprayer with the 0* rotating thing on the end, made short work of the inside and outside.

I'm going to roll on rustoleium paint Friday and Saturday. I'm thinking fire engine red to match my harbor freight tool box :D

Maybe herculine it? ha

Still can't find the @#$ camera!

[DSW]

Glad to hear your tank didn't have any problems. Keep it well drained and you'll never have any problems. I'd say make a habit of always draining it when you go to start it especially in your warm moist florida air. You're more likely to remember then than if you try to do it after you use it. If you plan on letting it sit for awhile I'd also give it a drain to keep moisture from sitting there for a while.

[Nowhere]

I plan on having an easily accessable 1/4" ball valve plumbed outside for the tank drain. I don't like the idea of the twist petcocks on the bottom of the tank. It'll be quiet and very easy to do with a ball valve. Hmph, might burry the end in a burried bucket of rocks/gravel? Quiet purge :D

[SirPoopsALot]

Anybody ever use something like this in an air tank?

http://www.kbs-coatings.com/Gold-Standard-Tank-Sealer_p_7-30.html

I know a buddy of mine has had good luck with similar products on motorcycle fuel tanks. I also realize there is very little pressure involved in a fuel tank. I was just thinking... what if you could prevent the rust all together?

[Rattlecan]

If you are worried about interior rust you might be able to drop the tank off at a radiator shop to have the rust boiled out, and the tank resealed. I was quoted a reasonable price for an old gas tank by one of our local shops.

Just an idea....

Sounds like a cool project.

[Nowhere]

Update! She's coming along nicely.

The tank is painted bright red with black feet. The @#$(&@$# roller left hairs on the tank, looks GREAT @ 5' :D
The compressor is painted gloss black with high temp paint on the 1st stage to 2nd stage and 2nd stage to tank plumbing.
The after cooler is painted black too.


I've received a bunch of parts so far

the Baldor l1410 motor
Big 4" liquid filled stainless pressure gauge (BLING)
siemens magnetic starter
Wall mounted disconnect box (8 dollars at home depot. I think it will allow the wiring to go easier)
8-2 w/ground cable (125 feet for 100 dollars at home depot)
*The internal wiring on the motor is 10awg? The 8-2 was not too much more expensive vs. the 10-2, maybe 20 dollars.
A dryer plug (until I can correctly wire the unit)
Air compressor decal kit
Misc. air fittings (2" tank bungs, misc 1/4" drain stuffs)

I'm still waiting on my safety valve, pressure switch, check valve (shipper is 400 miles away, it's been a week?!), and a breaker for the breaker box.

I'm going to temporarily run the compressor on the 30amp dryer outlet. I think that will allow me to tell if I need a larger breaker for the motor. It starts and runs fine with no load on the 30-amp breaker.

I mounted a 10" long 1/2" eyebolt so I can move the entire setup with my shop crane. It is VERY VERY top heavy. I do not feel comfortable moving the setup with a hand truck, no thanks!

I still need to paint the belt guard (black), break in the motor (1 hour, no load), wire the setup (disconnect to starter, pressure switch to starter, starter to low oil switch, and starter to motor), and bolt the tank to the floor.
I've got some boat trailer heavy plastic/rubber mounts I'm going to use as vibration pads. I hope they hold up to the weight and vibrations.

An interesting note, a 5hp motor will strip a roll of electrical tape in about 3 seconds :laughing:. The trashcan is now full of spooled electrical tape :D

Pictures in the next post!

[Nowhere]

Pictures!