Hey Jeep Guys,

I'm starting this thread, because I think You will find My information useful, especially if You've ever considered a GM metric engine swap, with manual trans. Or You would like to use a Toyota early (pre 96') R150f manual trans, to use the toyota, twin tranfer case crawler set up, in your AX15 transed, Jeep.


Heres what started it.

I have an auto repair shop in Wisconsin for 16 yrs, and have always had a beater parts running truck, for the last two years I've had a 90' Toyota pickup, with a 22re, W56 5sp, 4x4 with the gear driven t case.

I'm no big Toyota lover, My main truck is usually a Chevy, but I like the toyota mini 4x4 trucks, because there reliable, small, and cheap when their rusty and old, and that means I dont have to worry about body damage, When My "cowboys" drive My parts truck.


Now, that said, I've also thought that they (toyotas) got really crappy fuel mileage, for a 3000#, 4 cyl 4x4 truck, I was only getting 14-15 mpg, and 9-10 mpg when pulling My 1400# (loaded) ATV trailer. This is just the best that they get.


So I wanted to put a Buick, series II 3800, from a 98' Firebird rwd, on a 91' Toyota R150F, Then use a 92' Bonneville ECU. Then I could pirate flash the 92's Memcal for different fuel strategies, plus it does not monitor an after cat 02. As well as doubleing the toys torque and HP. With this package I figured I would end up somewhere around 25-28 mpg.

I then started My research, and this is what I found. In 87' to 90', GM made Firebirds and Camaros with Borg Warner T5 man. with 2.8 V6's, these 2.8's are metric bell patterns, a.k.a. "small corporate pattern". (Thanks to Greg the cat skinner)

This bell will bolt up to any metric V6, V8, including Northstars. This is NOT the Chevy pattern or the B.O.P. pattern. As an added Bonus this bell has twin starter pockets (left and right)




87' Firebird w/T5 on a 2.8, Bell. Notice 2 trans mount bosses, same pattern, and L/R starter pockets. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/acme941/bell-2.jpg



The Firebirds bell is 6 3/8th's deep, So is the Toyotas R150F http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/acme941/bell-3.jpg





Side by Side 91' Toyota R150F bell next to 87' Firebird T5/2.8 bell
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/acme941/toyo3800-1-1.jpg







The front of the 91' R150F Case. The large Aisin pattern. Same as AX15!
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/acme941/toyo3800-1.jpg




Fortunatly Novak conversions has part of the solution for about $300. The AX15/T5 adapter. (Very Good people to deal with)
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/acme941/kit_gmax15.jpg

http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_gmax15.htm



Unfortunatly this adds .93" thickness to the equation. The 91' Toyotas input shaft is 6.5", But when You add the adapter You end up "short shafted", and Needing a 7.5", input. So W.T.H. am I going to do now!


Well I had also read that 96' and up Toyota R150F's had 7.5" input shafts, so all I needed was a 96 and up, R150F, but the drive shaft drop was on was on the left, and had a chain drive case.


That meant I would need $500 plus, worth of adapters, to mount my gear drive t case,(drops on right) 0n the 96' an up, R150F,(drops on the left) and make this work. Add that to the Novak's $300 and this was starting to be more than My Toyota was worth. I then puchased a 91' R150F for $135.


Heres the good part: The AX15 is closely related to the R150F. The AX15's input shaft is 7.8" long, and they both have 3.83 1st gears. Hmmm........

I then bugged everyone I could think of on this input shaft swap, and got a whole bunch of "cant be done" and a few "maybe's". So I decided to take a chance and ordered a AX15 small pilot, input shaft from tb trans, for $79. Heres What I found.






The 91' Toy R150f with 6.5" input, opened up. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/acme941/ax15r150-2.jpg








The AX15 7.5" Fits!! I've mic'd this thing every way I can think of, and it looks like a match. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/acme941/ax15r150-1.jpg







Heres The length I need.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/acme941/ax15r150-3.jpg






Close up AX15 next to 91' R150F input shaft. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/acme941/ax15r150-4.jpg






Now, if this works My way, Guess what, Jeep Crawler Guys?......
It will work Your way too.


Can I have a Hell Ya?






Thanks Kiwi



.

Nice work. Good write up.

Isnt it also called a 60 degree "v"?? and Im pretty sure they made a 200r-4 in a 4 wheel drive version that has a 60 degree bellhousing. I know your going for a manual transmission but just thought i would throw that out there.

Hell Ya!!

Now, don't forget to tell us what you get for mileage with that toyota with a gen II 3800.

sharpmachine

Nice tech.

Any plans for the clutch/flywheel etc...??
I've been planning the same swap (current plan was for an AW4 behind a 3800SC series II), but If there are manual trans options that will work, I'm more than interested.


Keep us updated!

Or couldn't you use an AX15 from a dakota with the 2.5L? Already has the right bellhousing and input shaft to bolt to a 60 degree GM motor. It's a common swap for guys with 2.5L Wranglers who want a stronger transmission.

Some pics from a thread here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181361

And in case you are looking for more details on a 3800 swap with jeep tranny. Looks like most of his pictures are still there.

http://www.comancheclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3582

Well, if you went with the AX15, then you coulnd't use dual toyota t-cases, which I sounded like he was doing, unless you swap the toyota back half of the case and output shaft.

But a R150 still needs adapters to get a dual t-case on it.

The R151 has the gear t-case output, but has a 4.31 first gear, that, as far as I know, can't be swapped out with the long output shafts, except maybe a Supra R154 case.

I'm trying to figure my options right now, with my R151 trans. Haven't decided what T-case or motor to run just yet...

Well, if you went with the AX15, then you coulnd't use dual toyota t-cases, which I sounded like he was doing, unless you swap the toyota back half of the case and output shaft.

But a R150 still needs adapters to get a dual t-case on it.

The R151 has the gear t-case output, but has a 4.31 first gear, that, as far as I know, can't be swapped out with the long output shafts, except maybe a Supra R154 case.

I'm trying to figure my options right now, with my R151 trans. Haven't decided what T-case or motor to run just yet...

No reason to use dual toyota t-cases when a 231/300 bolts up directly to the AX15 and gives you better gearing, shorter length, stronger cases and twin stick.

all he used was the AX15 input shaft, the rest of the case is Toyota.

Hey Krod,

AX15 clutch disc, is the same as GM truck, 1 1/8th" I.D., 10 spline/tooth

3800 pressure plate is 9.5", but 9 1/8th" disc is 14 tooth.

1977 Pontiac Tempest 3.8, had 9 1/8th" clutch disc, with GM 1 1/8th" I.D. 10 spline/tooth.

Hey oldjeep,

The 87'-90' Firebird/Camaro bell has left and right starter pockets. The 3800 has LEFT side starter mount, and only cost $40 shipped. car-parts.com

There are "lurkers" who will take this information, and do things with it that We cant even think of. I just thought it was interesting as hell, I hope they Post!

Thanks, Kiwi

Hey Krod,

AX15 clutch disc, is the same as GM truck, 1 1/8th" I.D., 10 spline/tooth

3800 pressure plate is 9.5"

1977 Pontiac Tempest 3.8, had 9 1/8th" clutch disc, with GM 1 1/8th" I.D. 10 spline/tooth.




Are you using the 3800 flywheel with the Tempest disc and 3800 pressure plate? I lost you on what flywheel/clutch/pressureplate setup....Can you elaborate?

The thought of using the standard trans with this engine is :smokin:

Hey Krod,

Yes, and yes, I'm using the 3800's stock flywheel.

Thanks, Kiwi

What about using a 60* bell from a 1986 CJ with the Iron Duke motor. It is also a 60*?

Did you research that at all? I have had this one laying around for awhile.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/jeepfreak81/IMG_5712.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/jeepfreak81/IMG_5713.jpg

What about using a 60* bell from a 1986 CJ with the Iron Duke motor. It is also a 60*?

Did you research that at all? I have had this one laying around for awhile.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/jeepfreak81/IMG_5712.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/jeepfreak81/IMG_5713.jpg

Yeah, that coudl be used with that adapter...

Or he could have also just used a later R150 input shaft, instead of the AX15 shaft. They are an inch longer as well.

Hey Guys,

The 3800's starter is Left side mount.

The rest is over My head, but not this guys, http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740

Thanks, Kiwi

Hey Guys,

I took the rest of My build over to the Toyota forum.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8049180#post8049180

Thanks, Kiwi

hell yea