I am building a full out buggy, but not the norm. It will have a 1.6L engine and plenty of gearing. What I want to do is to run waggy width axels but High Pinion's front and rear. I need pass side drops front and rear. For the rear it is simple I think, I will take a 78-79 bronco front and shorten both sides to match a waggy and then put a rear d44 R&P in it and I am their. This will be a 4 wheel steer buggy.

Now in the front I want the HP with a pass side drop and as far as I know this never came in a factory set up. Is this correct?
So I think I am looking at doing one of two things.
1. Take a 78-79 front and swap tubes side for side. I do not know if this is a simple thing or not, or if it can be done or not.
2. would be call currie and order a HP housing to my waggy specs and tis is around $5-600. Are their any other options?

You mean to tell me I know more about this stuff than all of you!! Well if that is the case that it must not be able to be done. Come on give me a little of your time and expertise.

Mike Knorr did this and then did a Dana 60. Read his articles!

http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2000/hpd44front/hpd44front.cfm and
http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2001/hpd60front/ plus
http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2000/highpiniond60rear/highpiniond60rear.cfm

The 78-79 broncos and F150 have junk tubes. If your replacing the tube you should be able to save money with this axle. If your keeping the Tubes try a 73-75 truck. Search the Ford section on my name for more info.

If you have hte money why not go currie or Dynatrac? Dynatrac has the nice high clearnace housings.

If you want it cheaply done just get a HP 44 Diff and have it tubed to your specs.

Also, why use a high pinion in the rear unless you have driveline angle issues? I would just go standard 44, botu 20% stronger.

Anyways...good luck!

The Dana 60 rear steer axles are barely up to the task, I really don't think a 44 is going to be able to pull it off.

Contact MAXLE Engineering in Rapid City, SD. They've been putting Dana 50 diffs and R&P's into 44 housings and then running 35 spline Dana 60 shafts and knuckles for years. They also retube axles. Cheap. Call Bradley Williams at (605)381-3854. And don't worry, he's a wiz at picking up and delivering axles from distances. He always seems to know someone going that way or this.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by twistedmetal
[B]The Dana 60 rear steer axles are barely up to the task, I really don't think a 44 is going to be able to pull it off.



This will be a 2700lb buggy and it will only have a 1.6L engine and auto so it should be fine with a d44 w/ warn shafts and ctms.

Originally posted by rokcrln
I am building a full out buggy, but not the norm. It will have a 1.6L engine and plenty of gearing. What I want to do is to run waggy width axels but High Pinion's front and rear. I need pass side drops front and rear. For the rear it is simple I think, I will take a 78-79 bronco front and shorten both sides to match a waggy and then put a rear d44 R&P in it and I am their. This will be a 4 wheel steer buggy.

ok i answered all the Q's in teh last thread you obviously deleted...

if it's a REVERSE ROTATION housing, it will ALWAYS require a REVERSE ROTATION gear... this means it will be weaker than a toy 4cyl diff in the rear... you CAN NOT mix standard rotationa and reverse rotation gearset's it WILL NOT work, EVER!!!


Now in the front I want the HP with a pass side drop and as far as I know this never came in a factory set up. Is this correct?

yes this is correct...


So I think I am looking at doing one of two things.
1. Take a 78-79 front and swap tubes side for side. I do not know if this is a simple thing or not, or if it can be done or not.

yea it can be done... search up some pic's of the HP 44 in mine or Brandon's, or Crash's Toyota's... it's not mentally challanging to do, but sometimes gettign the knuckles cut off and the tubes removed can be a bitch... best bet is to just shorten the long side and replace the short side, it's a TON less work!

2. would be call currie and order a HP housing to my waggy specs and tis is around $5-600. Are their any other options?

someone's :smokin: alot of good herb if u think 5-600 for a housing made by currie... but hey if ya wanna be stingy and not pass the pipe it's all good...


you don't need the HP diff's in a rig that light for anything other than saying you do! especially in the rear! it's going to be weak with 44 shaft's and joint's in it as it is, no need to make it weaker than a sammi diff overall!

I guess the way I see it, is if you can spin a tire, then you can break an axle. Oh, and you DO need a bigger motor!:flipoff2:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DSI


[ok i answered all the Q's in teh last thread you obviously deleted...]

Yes I did! I asked the question in a rather cofusing way and wanted to re-state.::rolleyes:



[if it's a REVERSE ROTATION housing, it will ALWAYS require a REVERSE ROTATION gear... this means it will be weaker than a toy 4cyl diff in the rear... ]

So if I want a steering axel in back that I should stay with a regular rotation and just warn and ctm it?



[someone's :smokin: alot of good herb if u think 5-600 for a housing made by currie... ]

Sorry you are right I double checked it is $649.00 for the RR and $549.00 for the SR. My bad!:flipoff2:

i say save your $$$ and just run waggy 44's. i have a couple of buddys who run them in thier zuks and they work.....well:)

Originally posted by high5
i say save your $$$ and just run waggy 44's. i have a couple of buddys who run them in thier zuks and they work.....well:)

This is a very posible option but what are they doing in the rear for steering if they went this way?

IMHO a Hi pinion D44 rear steer axle ain't gunna work.

[list=a]
You are asking it to run on the wrong side of the gears as those were only intended to pull a rig not push one.
I assume with that size engine you will go straight to 5.38 gears, which are the weakest ones available. (compound this with the above ^^ = :nuke: )
As was mentioned D60 rear steering axles barely work.
[/list=a]

R&P work on the trailside really, really sucks and thats where I see the weak link.

Originally posted by JEEP_TJ_FREAK
IMHO a Hi pinion D44 rear steer axle ain't gunna work.


there is a guy on this bbs who frequents the suzuki board who has the ford high pinion in the rear of his in a rear steer steer
setup. yes it can work. zuk's don't make much power so it will not break the r&p. maybe a axle joint every now and then but the r&p will be fine.

Originally posted by rokcrln


This is a very posible option but what are they doing in the rear for steering if they went this way?

if you definatly have to have rear steer then the waggy rear would not be the best choice. if you want to run a waggy front then just use the front high pinion d44 from an early bronco. they would be about the right width and you would not have to narrow it like you would with the 78-79 like you proposed.

i just gave my op on the waggy axles. they are the way i personally would go. for cost and ease of install. i persoanlly do not want rear steer but if that is what you want then your high pinion d44 rear would work fine.

He can't run the EB front 44 due to the diff being on the wrong side. I still do not think that the 44 is a good choice for rear steer. For that matter, I don't believe in rear steer, I think it is the cause for many a rollover. Yes, it would be nice in technical situations, but you can do without. I've had a Dana 70 open knuckle rear steer sitting behind my garage for about two years that I just don't see any point in putting in. Someday if I get really bored, maybe. But it isn't necessary. Besides, how easy do you want your trails to be, anyway?:D

Originally posted by twistedmetal
He can't run the EB front 44 due to the diff being on the wrong side. I still do not think that the 44 is a good choice for rear steer. For that matter, I don't believe in rear steer, I think it is the cause for many a rollover. Yes, it would be nice in technical situations, but you can do without. I've had a Dana 70 open knuckle rear steer sitting behind my garage for about two years that I just don't see any point in putting in. Someday if I get really bored, maybe. But it isn't necessary. Besides, how easy do you want your trails to be, anyway?:D

An EB front 44 is the perfect axle for what he wants. Would be on the right side in the rear and be low pinion. Then retube a ford and he would be set...

Originally posted by DSI



if it's a REVERSE ROTATION housing, it will ALWAYS require a REVERSE ROTATION gear... this means it will be weaker than a toy 4cyl diff in the rear... you CAN NOT mix standard rotationa and reverse rotation gearset's it WILL NOT work, EVER!!!


[ [/B]

DSI,
come on now.. there's no such thing as a reverse rotation housing.. or axle, or gears for that matter.. :smokin:

we all know it's reverse cut and spins the same direction as all other diffs.

Originally posted by slotoy

DSI,
come on now.. there's no such thing as a reverse rotation housing.. or axle, or gears for that matter.. :smokin:

we all know it's reverse cut and spins the same direction as all other diffs.
If your going to correct someone....

The term is Reverse Spiral.

Thanks for the responces, Now if I were to go loe=w pinion it seems the cheapest and best way would to go with a waggy front from a pre80 so to have the pass side drop and run the post 80 waggy (driver side drop)in the rear so it would be on the pass side as well. As far as the HP it would be great but may be not nessasary with pinion angle. But sure would be nice for drive line clearance. So if I run a HP in the rear that would be the weak link to this set up. The front HP will be fine since the gears are ment to pull not push. Is this right so far? Now with less than 90HP out of the 4 banger what is the likley hood of breaking a rear HP d44. I am not a hard driver, and if I were to get that way it would be hard to do damage with this mtr.

Originally posted by 44Runner


An EB front 44 is the perfect axle for what he wants. Would be on the right side in the rear and be low pinion. Then retube a ford and he would be set...

where do you get that it would be low pinion in the rear??? not true. you just spin the high pinion front around and use it in the rear. it would still be a high pinion and with it turned around the pumpkin would be on the pass side.

A EB stands for early bronco! As in 66-77 and they never came with a HP. The HP's started in 78 for the broncos. I have thought of this but I want a few inches narrower.

Originally posted by rokcrln
<snip>. The HP's started in 78 for the broncos...
This is only for the broncos, the HP started in mid-late 60's under the F100's. Best axle is 73-77 for a swap, unless you’re re-tubing.

This is a strong axle for your application, use it.

Originally posted by Mr.N

If your going to correct someone....

The term is Reverse Spiral.

whatever.. but reverse cut isn't a wrong term... the teeth are made so they are angled in the opposite direction of a "normal" set of gears.. so they are reverse cut.. everybody uses that term.. never even heard someone spout out reverse spiral.. or is that the politically correct term??

Originally posted by slotoy

whatever.. but reverse cut isn't a wrong term... the teeth are made so they are angled in the opposite direction of a "normal" set of gears.. so they are reverse cut.. everybody uses that term.. never even heard someone spout out reverse spiral.. or is that the politically correct term??
Is that your technical explanation? Makes sense as you most likely heard the term in the rumor mill.

The term Reverse Spiral Gears Set is what Dana uses, the rest is just slang.

Before you post again find this quote on Dana Expert site. “Reverse Spiral gear sets are used in axles that have the centerline of pinion above the centerline of the ring gear”


Originally posted by Daniel
Mr N wheres the 20 ton pics you promised?? It's coming, the pic of the cab was bad. Going to re-take it. DO have a pic of the T-case, I think it;s over 3 feet long and tall! U-joints are as long as a Coke can :)

Originally posted by Mr.N

Is that your technical explanation? Makes sense as you most likely heard the term in the rumor mill.

The term Reverse Spiral Gears Set is what Dana uses, the rest is just slang.

Before you post again find this quote on Dana Expert site. “Reverse Spiral gear sets are used in axles that have the centerline of pinion above the centerline of the ring gear”



ok, so dana uses that term in their write ups.. just cause they use it it doesn't make it proper.. they coined the term just as others have coined reverse cut.. one is NO more correct than the other.. they mean the same shit.. :rolleyes:

Okay, lemme get this straight: take a driver drop front, spin it around side-to-side [as opposed to a flip], and *presto* a steering rear. Ummm... doesn't that make the R&P gears run in "reverse" for all forward gears and "forward" only when you're backing up? Will the gears still mesh okay?

[I searched! :flipoff2: ]

Get an atlas and some cutting breaks and you will be sooo happy you saved the money and you will be sooooooooo happy with the performance as well- just look at the competitors these days.

The transfer case spins the axle in the proper rotational direction. If an front axle needs its yoke to be turned in clockwise way then the the rear needs to be turned in a counter clockwise way for them to both be moving in a foward motion. The tranfser case spins in one direction but since each yoke is opposite from each other, they spin the shafts in the right direction.
So if an axle was in front its yoke would be turned in a clockwise motion. If you put it in back its yoke would be turned in a counter clockwise motion due to the T/C. In both cased it would turn the tires forward.

Does this make any sense? I understand it but I dont know if the above explains it.

Originally posted by ColoYJ
The transfer case spins the axle in the proper rotational direction. If an front axle needs its yoke to be turned in clockwise way then the the rear needs to be turned in a counter clockwise way for them to both be moving in a foward motion. The tranfser case spins in one direction but since each yoke is opposite from each other, they spin the shafts in the right direction.
So if an axle was in front its yoke would be turned in a clockwise motion. If you put it in back its yoke would be turned in a counter clockwise motion due to the T/C. In both cased it would turn the tires forward.

Does this make any sense? I understand it but I dont know if the above explains it. What you said is right, but that's not precisely what I was refering to. Take that front that's turning clockwise, move it to the rear and it's spinning counter-clockwise now. Sure, the vehicle and tires are all going the right way, but the RING & PINION are now turning opposite the way the were. But I think I just answered my question (and alleviated my concerns). You'd buy the same set of gears for a Dana 44, regardless of a front or rear application (not counting high pinion reverse cut yada yada). So the gears don't care; a front could be used in the rear, just don't turn it upside down and starve the pinion bearing for oil! :D

Originally posted by rokcrln
.... and then put a rear d44 R&P in it and I am their. This will be a 4 wheel steer buggy.


Uh, that won't work. Plus the fact that the rear and front use the same gears. a front standard cut D44 uses the same gears as a rear standard cut D44, and likewise with the RC axles. You would leave the gears in it and use them.
I still don't understand why people think that the front and rear gears are different.... they are only different if the front is RC and the rear is standard. Otherwise you can swap the gears back and forth between front and rear axle of the same type.

Originally posted by Slinky
Okay, lemme get this straight: take a driver drop front, spin it around side-to-side [as opposed to a flip], and *presto* a steering rear. Ummm... doesn't that make the R&P gears run in "reverse" for all forward gears and "forward" only when you're backing up? Will the gears still mesh okay?

[I searched! :flipoff2: ]

The gears will still turn the "right" way as long as the ring gear is still on the same side of the pinion. That's why they will turn in reverse if you flip it over. Where do you think they get High Pinion rear diffs? You know that Toyota ans Suzuki 3rds can be swapped front to rear, right? Same thing.

in a buggy that light you can run a rc44 in the back easily, if you think about it a standard cut r@p is 20% weaker when used in a front axle application, such as a fullsize v-8 chev and thats considered adequate to 35's. mine ran 44's for an hour and the r@p is still ok. the side gears are smooth but thats the same with reverse cut anyways.