Dude,

Just got back from the RCAA event in Cedar City.

Let me just tell you that whatever you decide to do to your truck I'm stoked as HE-double-toothpicks to see how it turns out.

FAWK any and all naysayers. FAWK whatever they say won't work (listen to those you trust tho...I think you know who they are by now...).

I am WAY impressed with the RCAA guys. ALL of them. The women too.

At first I thought, 'yeah, whatever D, just do your rockcrawling thing and get it over with'. Now I've TOTALLY reconsidered and man, you know what you're getting into. You know what you need to do to get it AWN, and you know where your'e going to end up.

Just promise me one thing though:

I want a ride in it when it's done!

Oh, one more thing. DITCH that Rover motor ASAP and get a small block. You're gonna need it!

In an effort to sound enthusiastic, I might have pissed a few people off.

The thread giving advice to Rockrover is EXACTLY what I LOVE about this site.

The *&^% sshhheeaiiiit that members of this list get from other sites are exactly what I was talking about above.

Here are some shots from anothter thread in the General section.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67226

I shot about 2 gigs worth of images, but they need to remain 'private' until the right people see them.:eek:

Anyway, just thought I'd clarify.

When I build my rockcrawler I'll come here for advice, that's for SURE!

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Wow! Talk about a change of heart!

Funny how my whole build up started as simply wanting to change out a front axle...I was very close to buying a pair of J10 44's and then figured it's just as much work to fit a 44 as it is to fit a 60...And then it started. Well, I figured I could get 38.5's to survive with a built 44, but I would have to move the front axle forward...If I have to move the front axle forward I might as well use coil-overs to help facilitate the space problems....Then I found a built 60/70 combo cheap...Okay, if I've got a 60, why stop at 38.5's? Might as well go to 39's...Hmmmmm. I know myself too well...Okay 42's it is! Hmmmmm. How do I get these sucka's under a 90? Hmmmmm. Might need coil-overs in the rear too....Fuel cell? Yea, gotta' cause with 42's I'm gonna' want a 110" wb...How am I gonna' get all this tube bent? Better get a bender...Hy-steer makes sense, but the Rover PS box sucks ass, and *!* Yea, full hydro!

It's a sickness really...But a fun one, and a hell of a lot less trouble than a mistress!

Well you get the idea. Not only that, but after hanging at RRCA in Farmington a while back, I was blown away by the level of rig's now on the scene. Do they work exponentially better than my 90 with 35's?...I'd say not really (at least the mid-road variety)...Did I want to do something different, that would satisfy my ever burning desire for change? YUP!

So here I am folks...All I can say is God Bless this board! I wouldn't/couldn't have come this far without it (snif-snif...I love you guy's...sniff).

-D

It all happened for me when I saw Tisdale run lower upper 2 at Tellico with 33inch tires and lockers and make it look easy. I would have bet him my dog he wouldn't get up that trail. I will never forget the looks on the jeep hybrid guys behind us running 1 ton frames and d-60s and 70s and 42s. .
There are LOTS of people that troll this board cutting and pasting away to learn from those who do and post about it. I think everyone here has the attitude that if you tell me I can't then :flipoff2: I will ....

I wonder how many trollers are out there like me who live vicariously through those with the means and skills to make it happen while we learn and save.

:beer: to the board. Trollers and posters alike.

JB

PS - I am heading to Tellico July 19-23. I'm not ready for Trail 2 yet but someday I will stand at the top and say :flipoff2: ....then I will get me one of those red star doo-hickeys...

Originally posted by TallBrad
It all happened for me when I saw Tisdale run lower upper 2 at Tellico with 33inch tires and lockers and make it look easy.

WOW! Tisdale made something look easy? :flipoff2:

D,

After seeing the event this weekend, and talking to LOTS of RCAA guys, I have also changed my mind about the big block.

Here's the setup to use:

Tube frame

Fender skins off of Defender

Rear tub like yours, but LESS of it

D44's, CTM's, Warn shafts

Rover-V8 or Vortec V6 or LT1 (i.e. LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT)

tranny of choice (aluminum housing preferred)

Atlas II

NO rear steer

ONE seat, 1/2 the cage

5-gal. fuel cell

37's (BFG Krawlers) w/custom alloy beadlocks

ARB's (duh)

WARN 2500lb. ATV winch with 50' of poly rope (remember LIGHT is GOOD!)

Lots of Slim-fast! (or get a midget to drive the thing: ala: Mini-D)

NOS (just for fun)

Think about it man!!!

Michael,

Thats the sort of setup ive also been thinking about. Going really light weight with smaller tyres (like you say 37s)

I would go:

Range Rover/Disco chassis and series body (cheap)

Rover motor/gearbox and transfer (some 4.3 maxi gears would be nice)

Rover axles with 30spline alloy axles (I can buy the axles from Jac Mac for $600AUS for the rear which includes drive flanges and $500AUS for the front) with toy diff centres (high pinion in the front) and toy longfields CVs (I would run these if I lived in the US but I will stay with rover 110 CVs living in AUS)

Holey bushes on stock rover radius arms up front and extended lower arms out back (this is what Im runn now, its very simple and works fairly well)

Run about 4.88 diffs (I think the 5.38s would be pushing it)

And some light 37in tyres.

This would be easy to make. Try to keep it really light. And it would be a really lot of fun to play with. And the 37s would be a hell of a lot easier to setup than these bloody big 42s.


But im going 302W/NP435/LT95/D60/D70 on 42s which is going to be a big, heavy, wide and long monster of a machine by comparison.


What I would love to know is if these competitions didnt have the tyre size limits what tyres would they run???? Would everyone be on 44s??? Or is it because the comps are setup with more climbing and off camber stuff as opposed to big absticals that the 37in radials work the best.

Sam

Good question about tire sizes and 'what would they do if size was not a restriction...'

A lot of the people I talked to thik that RCAA and the like will be going towards light bodies with high-performance high-revving small displacement engines. Small light cockpit designs with just enough tubing to hold the axles in place.

If you look now at the people who place high, it's kind of an even split between heavy built up rigs, and lighter more nimble ones. But, the trend towards lighter vehicles is really just starting, and I predict that's where the sport will head.

For example, rear steer was the hot ticket a year or so back. Several of the top names eliminated it because of *weight*. The advantages of having rear steer were negated because of being penalized by using it. It was, essentially, a moot modification, so in the trend towards lightening up rigs, people have been ditching rear steer like it was the plague.

Additionally, if a truck gets rolled or flipped over, you are not penalized much, and get 60 seconds to get it righted and back in forward motion again. If you just sit still at an obstacle waiting for your spotter for 4 seconds you are penalized, and if you and your spotter have to ask for assistance in rolling/recovering your vehicle back after a rollover, you point out at the maximum penalty for the obstacle you were in.

IF you have a lighter truck, perchance flip it over, the odds are that you will be able to right it quickly and finish the obstacle. Also, the trend in spotting right now is to have multiple attatchment points for tow ropes or straps. When the obstacles put the vehicles in precarious positions, a rope or strap is attatched to the appropriate spot and the spotter turns into a tugger. The trend in spotters is for someone with some serious ballast and enough brains to spot a truck intelligently.

Also, the split was about 50/50 between rigs that had 2 seats vs. only 1 seat. 1 seat equates to roughly 60-70% less chassis weight.

We might make fun of them, but the rigs that are based on the Suzuki sized engines and bodies do REALLY well. The 'magic' number it seems is 3400 lbs and 104 inch wheelbase.

We'll see where it goes from here.

Right on the money Sam with the exception of the frame and body....You gotta' go tube (chromolly) and make it a single seater (or two right next to each other)....The rover axles are good, but I would go with FJ80's.

A Disco chassis (well ANY rover chassis) is a TANK. You should build it out of 1.5" chromo tube....Then use dutz (sp?) fasteners to attach the rover-like skins to the tubing....A warmed up 3.9 block would be a great choice...Maybe a stroker at 4.6 or 5.2...

I am CONVINCED that the reason the competitors are running 37" MTR's is because GoodYear gives the tires to them....WONDERFUL marketing strategy, as just about EVERYONE is saying "I want those MTR's!"

The major heart-burn I have with the comps is the tire size limitations and restrictions on forced articulation. Personally I like "unlimited" events....Let the competitors dream up the most rediculous machines, test them, and prove what works and what doesn't. That's the key. I have a feeling you would see ultra-lights, and monster "Rapor" type machines with 48-52" tires getting it. The courses would be set up for the narrow, short wb rigs AND the wide monster trucks...Best driver/spoter strategy wins. I believe CalRocks has an Unlimited class, and (I think) Warn does too...

Part of the reason I went with 42's is that I wouldn't be as tempted to compete in RRCA with my current rig. I think it would/will do very well, but man! Looping over backwards off a 15' cliff after paying a huge entry fee isn't (yet!) my idea of a good time. I'll stick with the more local (and a little bit tamer) events....Warn/Superwinch Las Cruses would be cool...I'd be all over that one.

Just remember...When the obstacles look hard in pictures, they are SICK! in real life. Listen to me....I've already talked myself into it...:(

Originally posted by RockRover


WOW! Tisdale made something look easy? :flipoff2:

Step away for a day or two and this is what I get?:D :D :D
D, lets hope your not rusty in Moab after the two+ year sabbatical.:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Johnathan

PS-dont forget, I've got shotgun on PG!

Originally posted by Jtisdale
D, lets hope your not rusty in Moab after the two+ year sabbatical.:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Johnathan

PS-dont forget, I've got shotgun on PG!

Two + years? Comeawn...It's *only* been 15 months! :emb:

I did build a new house AND some work on the rig in that time though....Yea...I know...I suck...:emb:

--D

Originally posted by RockRover
Right on the money Sam with the exception of the frame and body....You gotta' go tube (chromolly) and make it a single seater (or two right next to each other)....The rover axles are good, but I would go with FJ80's.

A Disco chassis (well ANY rover chassis) is a TANK. You should build it out of 1.5" chromo tube....Then use dutz (sp?) fasteners to attach the rover-like skins to the tubing....A warmed up 3.9 block would be a great choice...Maybe a stroker at 4.6 or 5.2...



Yup, true for a full on competition rig.

But just for a play thing (exact same purpose as my current hybrid) I think what am am proposing would be a lot of fun and fairly simple and easy and cheap to make (in Aust anyway). And I think that the rover housings and toy centres / 110 cvs would last OK. They wont be bombproof with 37s but if the weight can be kept down enough I think it would work well enough.

I am probably going to make one of these. Ive got a mate of mine really keen so Im going to help him make it. We should be able to get something like this on 37s and for less than $5000AUS.

How much lighter are these tube frames. I think the disco chassis I got would be less than weigh 330lb (two blokes can cart it around fairly easy) To this I got to cut off the last 3 feet and add the sliders/body mounts and a roll cage. I think it will end up at a bit more than 330lb (although I could be wrong). How light would a tube setup be??

Sam