With the current prices of Diesel, and with speculation of what might be to come. If you were in the market for a truck (multi purpose) would you still go Diesel?


Here's my delima: My current work-truck/DD/tow rig is a 1/2T, 2wd, late model, regular cab. Gets the job done but should have got a 3/4T, and 4wd. Now that my family keeps expanding there is no way I can get (2) car seats in a regular cab, let alone my wife. We also have no 'long distance' tow rig for family trips (the one or two times a year we might do and need to tow as a family, my crew-cab project truck is still just that.... a project).

So I've been eyeballing selling the 1/2T and getting a latemodel, used 3/4T, 4wd, extended cab.

I've never had a Diesel, but the power and (hopeful) economy appeals to me. The more expensive fuel and maintenance doesn't. Gassers have been good to me.

All also be getting rid of a truck with 40K on the ticker, and probably looking at trucks with 100-130K. I've found a couple gassers that are loaded like I want, but also came across a 2002 Duramax that has really peaked my interest. Might be gone already but its got the wheels in my head turning. By math I figure if I get 2-3 mpg better than my current truck (so 16 mpg to 18-19 mpg) fuel cost will be a wash, with the added ratting and the 4wd as the bonus.


Thought???

For me I look at Reliability, then the added power in the range I want it, then economy. So yes I would still get one, of course I am looking at a 4bt to put in my truck instead of the gasser. It could nearly double my mileage. For my purpose it is the perfect motor.

I feel diesel will come down as it gets more popular but it's going to hit a ceiling at some point.

Yes. If I could afford it I'd get a new Chev/Duramax with the 100K warranty.

without a doubt

I will drive my rig to the trail before I tow with a gasser again :flipoff2:

I just bought a diesel. Prices will come down eventually.



The only way you would know my truck is on a hill towing is because you hear a little more turbo noise. I've never encountered a big block gasser that towed as well as a modern diesel. Maybe if you were in a flat area like Florida it would make sense to have a gas truck, but there are hills out here necessitating a better towing truck.

since my toyhauler loaded for a long weekend is pushing the 18K pound mark, yeah... it's the reason I bought it in the first place.


:usa:

sure would the power is awesome and economy is not bad considering the size and weight of vehicle. thought i probably would of settled for a late 90's powerstroke and saved a bunch of money not having a payment.

The only way you would know my truck is on a hill towing is because you hear a little more turbo noise.

sounds like you don't tow enough weight then :flipoff2:

I have two diesels. My old F250 4x4 7.3 turbo 3.73's 15 mpg city 17-19 highway, weight loaded 10-11k. I love it. Never had a problem towing even when running way over GCVW. Didn't realise how heavy we were till later and added it all up. Oppps. Can you say CDL required.

The new truck is an '08 Ford F550 4x4 with the 6.4 PS. 4.30's Weight 12.5k as loaded. MPG 8! Damn scrubber. :mad3:(now i'm even more pissed the dealer screwed up my order for the '07 so I had to get an '08 ) Even with this fuel hog I can't complain about fuel to much as most guys I know with gassers in trucks this size aint any better.

I would stay with older trucks any stay away from the new POS emmisions crap until they come out with the mods that make em better. My guess 6 mo. min. I looked at used and they either wanted big bucks like 80% of new for low miles or they were all high milage 150k+. They are out there however. I had someone offer me a 02 F350 4x4 CC diesel with 40k for $12000 last fall. I would have jumped on it if I hadn't already commited to the new body for the 550.

If I had to redo the new truck, I would still get diesel, I'd just have made sure that it was 07 or older even if I had to sacriffice options.

Car companies dont give a shit about Diesel mpg. Hell we've gone from 22+mpg in 1997 for a CTD 12V to 12-14mpg in 2008.

All the focus on is gas engine mpg. Now days you can get 20mpg in a 4 door 1/2 ton gasser that takes regular unleaded.

If you are getting by with your current truck then I think a new 20mpg 1/2 ton 4 door gasser would be you best bet since most of us diesel owners have parked the diesel and drive little econo box's for everyday.

I'm a die hard diesel owner but we are currently getting fucked at $4.20+ a gallon and 13mpg.

I added it up. Its gonna cost you well over $10,000 in fuel to go your first 40K miles in a diesel.

Or you can sell your current truck, buy a nice DD car w/ great mpg and save $6,000 for a 12V CTD for tow rig use only.

That should save you the most $$$$

I have a 99 chevy with a 454 and its gettig a cummins swap sometime in the future. It tows fine on the freeway but even the small mountains in Arkansas knock the wind out of it.

Diesel power is swwweeeeeeeeeet!! :D

I'll be buying a new truck in about a year as I am going to need a crew cab, and for sure it will be Diesel powered...

buy a old 90-92 intercooled ctd , use it when you need it < go buy a Toyota corolla < to run around in !!

In Sept 07, I bought a new 07 Ram 1500 Hemi. I couldn't justify the Diesel and here's why:

Fuel numbers: My Hemi gets 14mpg (pen and paper method, not on board computer) of mixed driving, mostly town. Ya, it sucks. New diesels get about 20 of mixed driving (that's an over statement for some probably closer to 18-19), yes better, but how long will the fuel savings pay for itself?

At the time of purchase, to get a 2500 with CTD (comparably equipped) was an extra $6000 for a 5.9, and $7000 for the 6.7. How far can I drive on gas for $6000 at $3.50/gal (at the 7-11 I can see from my window)?

$6000/$3.50*14 = 24000 miles (that's about 3 years of driving for me)

Lets look at fuel savings over a long term.

Current cost per mile of fuel to drive my Hemi = .25 per mile

Diesel cost per mile (same 7-11 $4.11) = .20 per mile

At .05 per mile, it would take 120000 mile before you broke even at the initial extra cost of $6000.

Then you have to add in the extra cost of maintenance (more oil, more expensive filters, etc) and at that point, you never break even.

My 1/2 ton Ram will tow 8900lbs and that's more than I need it to.
I got $12500 off MSRP with all of the discounts and rebates.
I have a lifetime power-train warranty. Talk about longevity.

Given all of those facts, I could not justify the Diesel.

wait til the end of the year and get a half ton diesel and get the best of both worlds if you dont need to tow heavy.

If a gas truck gets 15 mpg and a diesel gets 20 mpg, you will also need a 33&#37; increase in price to overtake the savings. At 3.25 per gallon for 87 octane, diesel would need to be 4.33 per gallon. If gas is 3.50, diesel would need to be $4.67, etc.

By me reg fuel costs $2.90-3.00 diesel is $3.83- 3.93, Everyone I know with gassers gets about14-15 max, I get 16-19. So yes I would still buy one.

Get what you want the cost is not that much different.

I think the 1/2 crew would not be a bad option. My dad drives his for work, the only down side is the TINY bed, 5 feet I believe... ?

He drives the hell out of it, usually about 75k a year, and get a new truck every two years...

I am with willisXJ on this. We went with a 3/4 ton gasser 2500hd Chevy. Its an 03 and fullly loaded ext cab. We test drove a few duramax's but could not have afforded one with all the options like we ended up getting. Couple that with the injector problems (we were looking at 01-02's so the 7 year warranty would have ended soon enough) it put them out of the ball park. With fuel prices, I could not justify it. Our truck is not a DD by any means. We have owned it exactly a year, and put 3200 miles on it in that year. We dont tow heavy enough to need a diesel, so there wasnt much benefit to me. I drive like a grandmother loaded or unloaded. Towing 8.5k with the 6.0 it did fine through the mountains. Of course a diesel would have done better if I needed it, but I didn't.

I would only spend the money on the diesel if you are going to use it to its full potential... I believe that about 15% of diesel owners actually need a diesel, about 50% use it for towing but could have gone either way, and the other 35% (at least in this area) just have small dicks :flipoff2: This, being a niche web site, everyone is probably in the 15 and 35 percent categories. It does make me chuckle a little bit when I see a powerstroke towing two jet ski's though.

If you are getting by with a 1/2 ton, maybe stick to a cc half, but if you see your needs changing, or wanting to haul more, go with a 3/4 ton...

Btw, our 6.0 unloaded at 6300 lbs (just me and 1/2 tank) gets 16 hwy, about 13-14 city... I can kiss 17 mpg if I REAAAALLLLY wanted to, but, those are unloaded numbers, and it very rarely driven unloaded.

I think there are some optimistic MPG numbers posted above. My 06 d-max gets 13-14 putzing around town, 16-17 running empty on the highway, and 11-12 towing an 8k trailer at highway speeds. I drive pretending that there's an egg under my right foot. You will NEVER save enough money on MPG to justify the diesel. You buy a diesel because you like how it pulls, not because it will save you money. There are plenty of late model gasser 6.0 3/4 ton trucks available that would serve your needs just fine and would be a huge improvement over your half-ton...

I leave my d-max parked 95% of the time and DD my '94 Geo Prism. That saves me TONS of money on gas!

I think it all depends on how much hauling/towing you do. That's where the diesel will be night and day over the gas, both in power and economy. Whichever you get make it a true 4 door, easier for getting the kids in and out and you can't have too much room.
I drive a little econo car to work and for running around but I wouldn't trade my diesel truck for a gasser. :smokin:

I think it all depends on how much hauling/towing you do. That's where the diesel will be night and day over the gas, both in power and economy. Whichever you get make it a true 4 door, easier for getting the kids in and out and you can't have too much room.
I drive a little econo car to work and for running around but I wouldn't trade my diesel truck for a gasser. :smokin:

I agree with the true four doors. Our chevy is an ext cab and while it works great for our needs, the rear doors that only open 90 degrees and trying to get a car seat in would just be a pita

I think there are some optimistic MPG numbers posted above. My 06 d-max gets 13-14 putzing around town, 16-17 running empty on the highway, and 11-12 towing an 8k trailer at highway speeds.

Towing a 8k load we did just under 10 mpg right at 55-60mph with about 60% flat ground....


Like I said, I drive like a Grandmother, in fact, we have owned our truck for a year and I have only floored it twice. I cant remember the last time I hit 70mph (the speed limit around here, and in Wa state there is speed traps everywhere)

I think the only way you can buy a diesel thinking you will make your money back in fuel is if you were hot shotting with a heavy load 98% of the trucks driving

Short answer? No.

It most definitely depends on what gas truck you are looking at and which diesel you are looking at.

Chris

Yes, without a doubt. Diesels last at least twice as many miles before they need
a rebuild. Many people don't factor that into the equation.
We traded in the RAM3500 dually that I had on our motorhome and we NEVER
gave a gasser motorhome ANY consideration. The Mercedes diesel in the
motorhome is rated at 750K miles before rebuild. Try that with a gasser. :flipoff2:

since my toyhauler loaded for a long weekend is pushing the 18K pound mark, yeah... it's the reason I bought it in the first place.


:usa:

Ditto

not new, but used where I can get a good price and not have a payment. otherwise no.

Yes, without a doubt. Diesels last at least twice as many miles before they need
a rebuild. Many people don't factor that into the equation.
We traded in the RAM3500 dually that I had on our motorhome and we NEVER
gave a gasser motorhome ANY consideration. The Mercedes diesel in the
motorhome is rated at 750K miles before rebuild. Try that with a gasser. :flipoff2:

I never factor that into the equation. I have never had a gas engine fail before 150k miles, and usually by that time I am looking for a different rig anyway.

I saw it a lot when installing car stereos, someone would bring a toyota truck in with 200k, ran ok, but everything was beat up and broken. What good is a cummins that goes 300k if the truck falls apart at 170k? Of course, proper care would stop some of that, but I havent seen a truck with 150k that hasnt had small, stupid things broken/wrong.

I still think it comes down to what you want, and what you may need

And besides SDCJ, you would have to have a 700 ci gas engine to move that pig of a toterhome worth a damn:flipoff2:

I have two diesels. My old F250 4x4 7.3 turbo 3.73's 15 mpg city 17-19 highway, weight loaded 10-11k. I love it. Never had a problem towing even when running way over GCVW. Didn't realise how heavy we were till later and added it all up. Oppps. Can you say CDL required.

The new truck is an '08 Ford F550 4x4 with the 6.4 PS. 4.30's Weight 12.5k as loaded. MPG 8! Damn scrubber. :mad3:(now i'm even more pissed the dealer screwed up my order for the '07 so I had to get an '08 ) Even with this fuel hog I can't complain about fuel to much as most guys I know with gassers in trucks this size aint any better.

I would stay with older trucks any stay away from the new POS emmisions crap until they come out with the mods that make em better. My guess 6 mo. min. I looked at used and they either wanted big bucks like 80% of new for low miles or they were all high milage 150k+. They are out there however. I had someone offer me a 02 F350 4x4 CC diesel with 40k for $12000 last fall. I would have jumped on it if I hadn't already commited to the new body for the 550.

If I had to redo the new truck, I would still get diesel, I'd just have made sure that it was 07 or older even if I had to sacriffice options.

Google DPF delete. The mod is out there.

I never factor that into the equation. I have never had a gas engine fail before 150k miles, and usually by that time I am looking for a different rig anyway.

I saw it a lot when installing car stereos, someone would bring a toyota truck in with 200k, ran ok, but everything was beat up and broken. What good is a cummins that goes 300k if the truck falls apart at 170k? Of course, proper care would stop some of that, but I havent seen a truck with 150k that hasnt had small, stupid things broken/wrong.

I still think it comes down to what you want, and what you may need

And besides SDCJ, you would have to have a 700 ci gas engine to move that pig of a toterhome worth a damn:flipoff2:

I have 140k on my truck (purchased at 96k). It is showing wear on the driver's seat and that is about it. Although I take care of my stuff.


Yes, I would buy my truck again. Would I buy a new diesel. HEL NO. But an older 7.3 (both IDI & PSD) or cummins are all good engines. Personally I wanted a true crew cab and ford was the only one that had it. The 7.3 and Ford body was the deal maker. You could pay me to take an Isuzu....er Duramax. All jokes aside, I modify just about everything I own so as the truck needs repairs (which aren't going to be for a while), I will upgrade those parts for reliability. I intend for this to be the last vehicle I own (I am 30) so I need to make it last. I have better things to do with my money.

I'd go with the gasser, as a matter of fact, I did go with a gasser. I sold my 99 QC Cummins Duallie a year and a half ago. I bought a 99 QC V10 4WD 2500 SB. My Cummins got about 5 MPG better than the V-10, and stock for stock the V-10 would out pull it. I had a Chip, Intake, and Exhaust on the Cummins which did wake it up ALOT, but I added a Intake and Exhaust to the V-10 and I like it more than the Cummins while towing 6-7000 LBS. I Just made a 4300 Mile trip from Here (Chicago area) to Arizona/California/Nevada, picking up and dropping off a couple of Jeep and car. Got 9-10 MPG running at 70-75 MPH and Gas was consistently .80 to 1.00 a gallon cheaper. I passed a Cummins and a D-max running up the grade on 17 southbound coming into Phoenix that I could tell were straining, and I rolled by at least 10 MPH faster then they were with throttle left. Driving day to day unloaded, the V-10 has a much nicer power band with no turbo lag. Not to mention I bought my Gasser for 10K LESS than I sold my Diesel for.

As for durability and longevity, My Cummins was a POS, 2 lift pumps, Injector pump, and a cracked block in the 40K miles I owned it for. The repair costs of a Diesel must also be included, they are Uber expensive to repair when they do fail. Funny thing is I never had any trans problems with the Cummins (47RE) that every one complains about.

I must also mention that I do not have to worry about plugging in my Gasser in the winter, it heats up faster, and no worries about Summer blend fuel when the weather changes etc...

I faced this very question when I decided my 5.8L F-250 Supercab wasn't enough anymore. With my family and luggage, I determined that the one vehicle I could use for rig-hauling that would also do double-duty for family-hauling on long Summer trips (1,000+ miles) would be a V-10 or 7.3L PSD Excursion, or a big-block 3/4-ton Suburban.

The prices on the gas-powered ones has been falling into the basement, so a diesel Excursion is DOUBLE the gasser in these parts.

But I still went with a diesel, for a few reasons:

* This is a long-term vehicle for me. I'll probably be driving it in 15 years, so I wanted something that would suit my needs over the long-haul.
* 1,000-mile trips at 17mpg is a lot easier than the same trip at the 12mpg the V-10 or big-block would get me.
* If the power of the 7.3L PSD isn't sufficient, upgrades are just a chip and exhaust away.
* If the fuel-market goes really crazy, the PSD is more adaptable to alternative fuels.

And, I've just always wanted a diesel, and this was the perfect excuse. :D

89breaker I've looked at the info before, so far I'm unimpressed. A lot of this will/wont work. I figure on just waiting the 6 mo. untill they have a proven product. None of the guys I know who work on heavy trucks are impressed with the mods yet either. Its a work truck. It has to run every day, down time is more expensive than fuel, and to be honest I've had to much down time this winter. Also as a new truck, if I'm going to void the waranty I want to be sure its for a good reason and worth it.

I agree 100% on the 7.3. I looked at a really nice almost new 02' F650 with the 7.3 that I would have jumped on if I hadn't already ordered the '07. After they f***ed the order up it was gone. I would easily passed on the auto, ac, xlt interior for the 7.3 motor and at 1/2 the price.

The other mod I am considering is a gear splitter to give me a 20% overdrive. After I get solid info on the rears and tranny thats in the truck I'll post for suggestions.

Fair enough.

I'd go with the gasser, as a matter of fact, I did go with a gasser. I sold my 99 QC Cummins Duallie a year and a half ago. I bought a 99 QC V10 4WD 2500 SB. My Cummins got about 5 MPG better than the V-10, and stock for stock the V-10 would out pull it. I had a Chip, Intake, and Exhaust on the Cummins which did wake it up ALOT, but I added a Intake and Exhaust to the V-10 and I like it more than the Cummins while towing 6-7000 LBS. I Just made a 4300 Mile trip from Here (Chicago area) to Arizona/California/Nevada, picking up and dropping off a couple of Jeep and car. Got 9-10 MPG running at 70-75 MPH and Gas was consistently .80 to 1.00 a gallon cheaper. I passed a Cummins and a D-max running up the grade on 17 southbound coming into Phoenix that I could tell were straining, and I rolled by at least 10 MPH faster then they were with throttle left. Driving day to day unloaded, the V-10 has a much nicer power band with no turbo lag. Not to mention I bought my Gasser for 10K LESS than I sold my Diesel for.

As for durability and longevity, My Cummins was a POS, 2 lift pumps, Injector pump, and a cracked block in the 40K miles I owned it for. The repair costs of a Diesel must also be included, they are Uber expensive to repair when they do fail. Funny thing is I never had any trans problems with the Cummins (47RE) that every one complains about.

I must also mention that I do not have to worry about plugging in my Gasser in the winter, it heats up faster, and no worries about Summer blend fuel when the weather changes etc...

You are lying to yourself if you think your V10 would keep up with any decent running Cummins truck.

I wouldn't buy Diesel again for a lot of reasons, but power is not one of them. My truck will dust a V10 powered truck with any load, any time.

I bought my '02 powerstroke new, right before diesel prices started going up. I use my truck mainly for hauling my cabover and/or pulling the trailer behind it. Plus it has spent a lot of time hauling stuff for my house re-model.

Now would I buy a new diesel truck? I'm not sure. Mine only has 65K on it and it pulls like a train and has been a great truck. To the original poster, if you think you need/want a diesel, I would look at an older one. Pretty tough to justify the cost of a new one, with the mileage they get now.:(

I have talked friends out of diesel trucks. I agree with some of the other posters, unless you are really going to use it, don't spend the money on one. I had a 1/2t gasser before and it would pull my trailer/rig just fine. The problem with a 1/2t is that you can either pull or haul something, but you can't do both.

I bought mine because I wanted it to be the last truck I am ever going HAVE to buy, it may not be the last truck I ever WANT to buy. It's paid for and does every thing I want it to.

Tough decision. Good luck.

Jack

...Pretty tough to justify the cost of a new one, with the mileage they get now.:( ...

Pretty hard to "justify" the cost of the truck no matter what! Especially when our "justification" is a bunch of toys! I'm sure there are some that need it for work uses, but I'd bet most of us use our trucks recreationally.

Oh and maybe I'm lucky?? My 07 6.7 4x4 dually get the same mileage as my 05 5.9 4x4 dually did. Neither one is ~great~, but I'm not complaining.

I bought a 00' F350, Supercab, 4x4 with the 7.3 a little over a year ago that had 138k on it. I have replaced the tranny, put on new tires, and new unit bearing on the passenger side. It is about time for some sway bar links and the brakes need some attention. The truck really doesn't like it very much when it gets -20º outside. It rides rough, wanders all over the road, smells a little and costs me alot of money in fuel...












...Its kinda a love/hate thing :laughing:.

You are lying to yourself if you think your V10 would keep up with any decent running Cummins truck.

I wouldn't buy Diesel again for a lot of reasons, but power is not one of them. My truck will dust a V10 powered truck with any load, any time.

You need to remember that he said STOCK for STOCK. With that in mind, I would have to agree with him. Once you start talking about modded diesels vs. a stock or modded v10, then the difference becomes apparent.

The newer diesels (say '03ish and newer) are another story however and I would have to agree with you there that the diesel would likely win if comparing a stock diesel to a stock or modded v10. These trucks have a significant bit more power with the factory tune than the older trucks such as the 12v Cummins and early 24v Cummins trucks came with stock.

I bought a 00' F350, Supercab, 4x4 with the 7.3 a little over a year ago that had 138k on it. I have replaced the tranny, put on new tires, and new unit bearing on the passenger side. It is about time for some sway bar links and the brakes need some attention. The truck really doesn't like it very much when it gets -20º outside. It rides rough, wanders all over the road, smells a little and costs me alot of money in fuel...












...Its kinda a love/hate thing :laughing:.

:laughing: That pretty much sums up my diesel truck ownership as well.

If I had to do things over again there is no way I could justify the cost of owning a diesel. At the time I bought mine, I found things to be a wash with mileage and maintenance costs so I justified the expense by reminding myself that my Cummins Dodge would hold its resale value better than its gas counterparts. Unfortunately, diesel costs much more than gas does now and I get the same mileage as I did with my gas truck for the daily driving to work (which is my primary usage of the truck) I do with it. At least the light duty diesel truck prices haven't dropped significantly yet, so if I had to I could probably still sell the truck for an acceptable price. I'm sure that the truck pricing will be affected a bit in the future if the gap between the cost of diesel and gasoline stays the same as it is right now.

You are lying to yourself if you think your V10 would keep up with any decent running Cummins truck.

I wouldn't buy Diesel again for a lot of reasons, but power is not one of them. My truck will dust a V10 powered truck with any load, any time.

I've owned and towed with both, and my V-10 with 3.55 gears and 35" tires outpulls the Cummins with 31" tires and 3.55 gears AND the EDGE box on level 3. I just ran 70 back from 15 in Utah to 76 in Denver, and the truck never felt like it was working hard, even over the Vail pass (over11,000 ft) As a matter of fact, Dodge rated the V-10 with 3.55 gears at a higher rating than the Cummins with 3.55 gears when new. The Cummins needed 4.10s to get to the V-10 with 3.55s.

I am adding 4.56 gears when I swap in my trussed non CAD front axle, and lock ther rear. I know it will be a real beast then.

Plus I can home at 2 AM without everyone in my neighborhood knowing it:homer:

Plus I can home at 2 AM without everyone in my neighborhood knowing it:homer:

On Christmas morning I started my truck and went back inside and fell asleep (too much eggnog the night before :D). The truck sat in the driveway in all her straight piped glory and up-idled for about 45 mintues before I woke up. Neighbor said you could hear it on the DVD they were making of their kids opening up presents in the living room


I will give myself a :smokin: and a :shaking: for that smooth move.

What good is a cummins that goes 300k if the truck falls apart at 170k? Of course, proper care would stop some of that I'll let you know in 20K miles if your statement is correct.

but I havent seen a truck with 150k that hasnt had small, stupid things broken/wrong. Would you like pictures and copies of the receipts to date?


This coming August my 2500 CTD will be 3 years old and at or nearing 175K. I'm at 153K today. I've had one warranty failure. the output seal on my trans. Other than that it's been filters, tires, brakes and fuel. Then there is the stuff I've messed up. the bed and knocking off the mirror a few times.
I think it can be fairly well documented, I work my equipment to the limits of it's abilities.

Ive got nearly 250k on my '96 PSD.

Motor feels good, and truck is still together. It is a Ford afterall. Ford trucks actually hold together. Everything still works, and I dont have but one rattle. :flipoff2:


If the motor ever does gives up, Ill just drop a Cummins into it :smokin:

Fawk NO.
i traded in a sweet 97 F-350 single cab with a healthy 460 that was almost paid for on a 00 7.3 F-250.
i thought i would be saving money even with the difference in fuel price......wrong, the diesel only gets two or three MPG better than the 460 and power wise the old 460 is right there with the oilburner.
you can buy a lot of gas for the cost of a new truck payment. wish i had thought about that before i did it.

Yes, I would still buy one.

02 chevy 2500HD 8.1 496ci. id run it with you diesel guys and do just fine:smokin:

Yeah, I would... might just be a buyer's market on them right now. I've been through some rural areas the past couple of weeks and I'm seeing a LOT of very new diesels sitting with "For Sale" signs on them.

a diesel truck has a better mpg than gas thus diesel per mile is cheaper. forget gallon. i figure a v8 is getting what around 8-10 mpg while a duramax(dads atleast over a year of every driving known to man) averaged around 14. then look at realiability and power when loaded.

You really need to think about a lot of things: how heavy is your rig, do you plan to haul more than one rig at a time, how much room do you need?

If you have a 4-5k rig and don't plan to tow two rigs, then I would go gasser. 2500HD with the 6.0 would be my choice. Will net you decent mileage and much cheaper full. The diesel's don't get as much mileage as everyone claims. The older diesels see the best mileage, the newer models are a joke.

That said, I drive a 07 Mega Cab CTD and the fuel mileage is always 12-14 mixed and 10-11 towing (doesn't matter if the trailer is empty, loading with one rig or two, always the same. Nice power and pulls good. I love the space it offers, tons of cab room. To do it over, I would of looked at a 03 CTD because it has the new body style but minimal emissions. The quad cabs on Dodge's are a joke though.

Maybe try to get a cheaper tow rig (Old Dodge or Ford) and a gas car to get around with daily. I would also stay away from the 01-02 Duramax's because they have injector failures and will fail on you with a huge repair bill. 03+ Duramax is a better choice

I agree based on simple economics the fuel savings diesel offer will not compete with a cheaper up front, and cheaper operating costs of a Gasser.

On the other hand, the Diesel has the Power (ummm ok alot more power) to be fun and tow a fawking rediculous load. Usually ends up being a larger roomier vehicle, and with the right diesel and a manual tranny will last you a long damn time.

Simple answer would be if I was going to, or plan to ever tow a large load, I could justify the up front cost of a diesel and the higher fuel costs to have that ability. If I knew I was never going to tow anything heavy, I would stick with the gasser.

That being said, I am planning on towing heaver loads and am Looking to upgrade the 1/2T gasser to a 3/4T diesel in the near future.

And to the guy who said that fuel prices will eventually reach a celing, and come back down? Your fawking nuts. I think $4 a gallon for gas will happen this year easily, and beyond.

Strictly depends on how much I need to two.

It costs more to operate a diesel, there is absolutely no getting around that.

At some point I'm going to be towing enough weight that a diesel makes sense, I'm just not sure where that point is yet. I would likely be considering a big block or V10 first. Sure, it'll be an emotionally trying time at the pump, but overall I'll come out money ahead.

I had always wanted diesel truck, but with fuel prices where they are now, there is no way I would buy one. My $7k '98 big block loaded 'burb does just fine. Granted it won't be passing much going up the big hills, but it still does just fine and I can get from point a to point b a few minutes later than my diesel buddies. Besides, I can run the cheapest gas I can find.....and for the money I saved going with a gasser, I can buy A LOT of gas. Maybe when the big three come out with a tahoe/expedition sized SUV with a smaller diesel will it makes sense, but not right now.

Fawk NO.
i traded in a sweet 97 F-350 single cab with a healthy 460 that was almost paid for on a 00 7.3 F-250.
i thought i would be saving money even with the difference in fuel price......wrong, the diesel only gets two or three MPG better than the 460 and power wise the old 460 is right there with the oilburner.
you can buy a lot of gas for the cost of a new truck payment. wish i had thought about that before i did it.

add and chip and straight pipe it and that 7.3 will walk all over that 460.

You don't buy a diesel for fuel savings you buy it for the power, the longevity, and oh yeah the power.

I bought an 03 2500 Hemi new 5 years ago and it was the bigest dumbass kid mistake I ever made. I traded it in paid for 2 years ago on an 02 2500 cummins because I was tired of screaming the crap out of the Hemi just to try and keep up with traffic on the highway. I had to drop down to 3rd and slow down to 55 on every hill. I loved that truck and practically stole it (worked for the german half of DC at that time), but I just couldn't deal with how miserable it was towing even with the 4.10 gears.

I too would drive my crap to the trails before I towed with a gasser again.

You don't buy a diesel for fuel savings you buy it for the power, the longevity, and oh yeah the power.

.


I did -- but my budget was for something used --- I couldn't afford not to buy a diesel for the fuel savings. I went from an old gasser getting 8-10 mpg to an old diesel getting 17 mpg. Even the more modern gassers in my budget at the time only got about 12-14 mpg.

But if you go new diesel vs. new gasser - fuel savings just do not work out...

You don't buy a diesel for fuel savings you buy it for the power, the longevity, and oh yeah the power.


The kicker is, with every passing year that becomes a weaker and weaker argument.

Whats the expected life of a cummins? I hear 500k floated around alot. A "newer", as in 10-15yo? V8 you can reasonably expect to get at least 200-250k out of.

Factor in the cost of replacement parts - or heaven forbid you suck a turbo and the diesel ties or looses the cost argument.

You get diesel when you need more power.

For as much towing as I have been doing (about 1-2 times a year) if I didn't already have this truck, and almost have it paid off, I'd have a new gas tundra. I love my diesel truck, and I love the way it drives and everything about it, but with the fuel price the way it is, it just sits most of the time anyway.
Scott

I love my diesel and would do it all over again in a heartbeat. :D

The kicker is, with every passing year that becomes a weaker and weaker argument.

Whats the expected life of a cummins? I hear 500k floated around alot. A "newer", as in 10-15yo? V8 you can reasonably expect to get at least 200-250k out of.

Factor in the cost of replacement parts - or heaven forbid you suck a turbo and the diesel ties or looses the cost argument.

You get diesel when you need more power.

I've got a friend with a 93 ctd that has close to 375 on the ticker and we're waiting to do the clutch to fix the rear main seal. Other than that the engine has needed nothing. He bought it from the original owner and has service records since new. I've got a friend in fleet maintenance for UPS and he says they have plenty of CTD's with more miles than that.

Had a V10, 8 liter. That truck was FUN and pulled. Never mind the constant 10 mpg, no matter what. Went to Cummins country. Got used to the turbolag. Dang thing drives like a plough, hard to tell the difference otherwise, pulling, driving etc. The body is falling apart, Dodge could care less, driving this thing till we loose the fender and go from there.
The big plus to us for the diesel is offhighway travel and the lowendtorque (which was NO problem with the V10 at all, but sleeping next to the sparegascans WAS.) Getting about 18 to 20 mpg with the Cummins.

I've got a friend with a 93 ctd that has close to 375 on the ticker and we're waiting to do the clutch to fix the rear main seal. Other than that the engine has needed nothing. He bought it from the original owner and has service records since new. I've got a friend in fleet maintenance for UPS and he says they have plenty of CTD's with more miles than that.


The shop I work at just sold a 93 Ford F-350 With a 460 The truck had a BIG utility box on it and contiuously Hauled 3000 lbs of test weights, and crossed the scales at 11,500 LBS. The truck went through 5 EAOD (DOA?) transmissions, 2 starters, 2 alternators, and 2 exhaust systems, and the brakes sucked from day one, but never had the Valve covers off the engine. I absolutely detest Fords, but that truck was a trooper, pretty much everyone in the shop beat on it, The passengerside of the dashboard was broken free and bounced about 2 inches on every pothole. It averaged about 8 MPG over its life span. When we emptied the truck out to sell it, it would still spin the tires from a dead stop.



BTW it had 385K on the odomoter when we retired it.

So gas engines can last pretty long too.

Oh yeah, I've noticed that running the low sulpher fuel seems to get about 2-3 LESS MPG than the old stuff, anyone else notice this?

I would no way in hell buy a gas truck. What would be the purpose of that? If you're not going to haul something then why are you buying a truck? Get a freakin car or SUV or something. Speaking of SUV's, Ford needs to come back with a large dies. SUV. With my bundle of kids, it sure would be nice.

Oh yeah, I've noticed that running the low sulpher fuel seems to get about 2-3 LESS MPG than the old stuff, anyone else notice this?

we took ~1mpg hit in economy in with the TDIs. No change in power though and neither car smokes nearly as bad as before. the Passat would smoke like a train under full throttle with the old fuel and now it barely makes a haze with the ULSD.

All of you complaining about the economics of owning a tow rig (gas or diesel) need to get a better job or build your rigs with bolt on parts so you can drive them to the trails! :flipoff2:

It is a tow rig intended to haul/pull heavy stuff which requires power and thus a big fuel consuming motor and increased cost due to the "extreme" (I hate that word but it fits here) nature of what you are asking a light duty vehicle to do.

I own a diesel because I wanted to have one as a tow rig. You want to save money? Drive less! :flipoff2:

Would I do it again? Hell yes! I like getting to the top of the hill while towing first!

add and chip and straight pipe it and that 7.3 will walk all over that 460.
yeah and walk all over the tranny too. :shaking:
no thanks.

All of you complaining about the economics of owning a tow rig (gas or diesel) need to get a better job or build your rigs with bolt on parts so you can drive them to the trails! :flipoff2:

It is a tow rig intended to haul/pull heavy stuff which requires power and thus a big fuel consuming motor and increased cost due to the "extreme" (I hate that word but it fits here) nature of what you are asking a light duty vehicle to do.

I own a diesel because I wanted to have one as a tow rig. You want to save money? Drive less! :flipoff2:

Would I do it again? Hell yes! I like getting to the top of the hill while towing first!

My trail rig's fuel economy is not THAT much better than my truck while towing the trail rig on a 2500lb trailer. at most 4-5mpg.

And the truck is a hell of a lot more comfortable at highway speeds.

Since I no longer drive my truck daily, I'd probably buy a big block or V10 gasser. They are dirt cheap, even for the newer ones, and run on regular unleaded. I have seen a number of nice chevy crew cab dually 4x4s for under 4k.
Travis..

If I were in the market (read: had the money) for a new 3/4 or 1 ton yes, I'd stick with diesel.

If my truck were to be totaled tomorrow, it would be a tough decision as to what kind of used truck I would replace my truck with (gas or diesel), as it would need to equal my insurance payout. Money is tight right now.

For the time being, my 99 PSD with 175K on it is paid for, so I can justify the high fuel cost.

We have an 87 F350 Carbed 460 and with the camper, flatbed and zuk it pulls pretty damn good. Always gets 8mpg, doesn't smoke, and is paid off. It would be hard to justify a 10,000 - 20,000 dollar oil burner. The nice thing is that when I find a wrecked cummins for cheap I can put it in the Ford for minimal money :flipoff2: Plus it has a Dana 60, non king pin, and no TTB :D.

If I had to pay 4 or 5k for this truck I would get a used oilburner for sure but I can't complain about the deal I got :)

Now If I can load two buggies on the trailer that will really help justify the price for fuel verses towing.

I second the notion of buying a used 12v or 24v cummins. I have a 7.3PSD 5spd, and I also have a 24v cummins, and have owned a 12v cummins both autos, my brother also has a 7.3l psd with an auto.
My borthers: 96 7.3l psd E4od Auto 4x4 stock- 12-14mpg empty 10mpg towing 8k
My PSD: 94 with 01 7.3L PSD ZF5 stick 4x4 stock- 17mpg empty 14-15mpg towing 8k
My 12v: 95 47rh auto 2wd fuel plate & injectors- 17city 19-20hwy 23best 16-17 towing
My 24v: 00 47RE auto 4x4, chip, exhaust, intake, twin turbos, injectors etc...- 16-18city, 19-21 hwy, best of 23mpg and worst of 12mpg towing 18.5k(cattle) in extremely mountainous terrain.
We also have a fuel injected chevy 454 we tow cattle with in the same terrain, and it gets about 4mpg towing and 8-10 empty.

I've logged about 300k in these vehicles in the last 5 years, and from my experience, I would definitely go with the diesel if you're going to tow heavy. With all of that said, I saw it mentioned before that you should buy an older diesel and also a little DD car. Thats my set up. I have a 92civic 5spd that doesn't cost hardly anything to operate and gets 33-38mpg consistantly. My friends all used to laugh at it, but with fuel prices the way they are now, everyone wishes they had one.

Also, for the record friends of mine that dd drive newer diesels 6.0L ford and CR dodges aren't reporting the same mileage. As for reliability, I just had the head off of my 24v with a 130k on it, to do some work to handle the twin turbos, and it looked brandnew inside, no carbon build up on anything. I recently had the head off of my brothers 7.3L to remove a stuck glow plug (ford quoted us $3000 to replace a $14 part) and it wasn't nearly as pretty inside at 160k. Its hard to say what contributes to that though. In my opinion you would do well to find your self a 12valve Cummins with a p-pump on it, thats a very reliable and pretty inexpensive choice. That will get pretty good mileage.
Sean

Would I buy another diesel truck, sure would... just bought 2 more... LOL
But, would I buy a new one? No way in hell. I like my trucks built like trucks, dirt simple and reliable. The maintenance on the newer trucks is hedging on crazy when it comes to price(based on my ownership of a 00 Super Pig,) and, while the older mechanical engines might not run as clean or make the same power numbers stock, they do tend to get metter mileage.

I would, i bought mine the day diesel hit $4 a gallon and i couldn't be happier with it. i get the same milage as my 97 f150 did and i get tons more power and can spin my big ass tires like their nothing. if your buying a truck you should buy it for the power and the reasons you need a truck for, if you get all bent up about fuel milage you should have bought a car.

yes.:smokin:


.

With the current prices of Diesel, and with speculation of what might be to come. If you were in the market for a truck (multi purpose) would you still go Diesel?

In a word - YES.

However, I count on being able to find my diesel vehicles for about the same price as gas models. I know, not always an easy task, but fleet sales and work trucks (esp. where the whole lot of them are diesels) tend to be that way.

02' 24v-chip,exhaust,intake,injectors,turbo,FASS fuel pump 26.5mpg unloaded at 80-85mph
17-18mpg city (if you drive it nice)
21mpg highway when towing 6.5k at 70-75

It's worth the money, at first mine wasn't because P/O didn't modify the clutch or fuel pump when he did everything else($$$$$$$$$$$$$$). But now I rarely fill up when i'm just running around town, the power add-ons do help with mileage it seems. I love the power,MPG, noise, and power! I wish everything I owned was diesel after owning my dodge.:grinpimp:

02' 24v-chip,exhaust,intake,injectors,turbo,FASS fuel pump 26.5mpg unloaded at 80-85mph
17-18mpg city (if you drive it nice)
21mpg highway when towing 6.5k at 70-75

It's worth the money, at first mine wasn't because P/O didn't modify the clutch or fuel pump when he did everything else($$$$$$$$$$$$$$). But now I rarely fill up when i'm just running around town, the power add-ons do help with mileage it seems. I love the power,MPG, noise, and power! I wish everything I owned was diesel after owning my dodge.:grinpimp:

I call BS on your #s. Are you calculating this or reading your overhead computer?

Just bought a new 08 CC 4x4 CTD today :smokin:

GO diesel

my dad and i both have the 7.3l f250 great never let us down both around 160k (just broken in)
i belive we get about 16mpg with a 10,000lb truck
and u cant get much safer
my friend saw a lil honda civic that T-boned an f250 and thought it was a service truck there to get the wrecked civic:D

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/ford/0707dp_2008_ford_super_duty_gas_vs_diesel/index.html

I call BS on your #s. Are you calculating this or reading your overhead computer?
x2

yeah and walk all over the tranny too. :shaking:
no thanks.

and you speaketh the truth :laughing:




Mine died at 11:30pm Memorial weekend, lost in Northern MN and outta cell phone range. I had the GF, a new puppy and fourwheelers in the truck and on the trailer. It was only an axe and a boob shot away from a good horror movie.

just bought a oil buner in feb. love it but sadly it is parked due to dd cost. would buy it again in a hart bet.

If you sit down and crunch the numbers, a gas will be cheaper then a diesel for most people.
If you crunched the same numbers, Golf is cheaper then going 4wheeling.
I don't like Golf and don't want a gas motor in a rig that tows my junk.

02' 24v-chip,exhaust,intake,injectors,turbo,FASS fuel pump

26.5mpg unloaded at 80-85mph
21mpg highway when towing 6.5k at 70-75



Banned

Banned

I wish I could drive on this wonderful internet highway...


I think the Dodge guys are the worst :flipoff2:

Definitely Diesel...
There are mods out there that enable your diesel truck to run off of french fry grease after it has been filtered, etc. and you can do that in your garage. You buy a kit, put it on the truck, get a tank for excess grease in the back, pull up to the KFC, drain their grease, (they don't want it!), take it home, filter it, and you've got extremely cheap fuel. Also power is a factor an the better fuel mileage rocks.

You can also get a fitch fuel catylyst that will increase performance and mileage for $300

Mark where are you at with your project hauler? Maybe the best option is to send it to someone else to be built, maybe with a 12v cummins or 7.3 powerstroke. When the dust settles maybe you would be money ahead by not having to buy an interum rig and getting another rig off the back burner

Definitely Diesel...
There are mods out there that enable your diesel truck to run off of french fry grease after it has been filtered, etc. and you can do that in your garage. You buy a kit, put it on the truck, get a tank for excess grease in the back, pull up to the KFC, drain their grease, (they don't want it!), take it home, filter it, and you've got extremely cheap fuel. Also power is a factor an the better fuel mileage rocks.

You can also get a fitch fuel catylyst that will increase performance and mileage for $300

OMG Are U 4 REAL? NO way!! :shaking:

Fitch catalyst... are you related to the guy getting 26mpg with his CTD?

In a word yes I would own a diesel, I only own diesels. I have been a heavy diesel mechanic all my life, since before computer controlled engines or trannies were even a pipe dream. The only gas engines I own are chain saws, and lawn mowers. Even my junk has a diesel.

I call BS on your #s. Are you calculating this or reading your Crack pipe?
Fixxxedded
And X eleveltygajillion.
I had a cranked up CTD not long ago, and empty, it would do about 12-13, loaded it would do about 8.5.

Some people here need to pull their heads out of the sand on a couple of points.
First, to the O.P. Yes, I would buy a diesel. However, I wouldn't buy one of these new computerized emmisions hobbled abortions on the market today.
Every technological "Advancement" in light duty diesel engines in the past 15 years has been made towards "Driveability" and emmisions.
Driveability meaning that they drive more like a gasser, so regular folks would buy them. Fuel economy has been completely ignored.
I drive a N/A 7.3 IDI with a manual tranny, and 3.55 gears, and get 20 mpg no problem, even with the A/C running.
You guys running around in this thread talking about 16 mpg being "Good mileage" are deluded.
Find an older mechanical diesel, and you can get good mileage, and tow your junk around happily.
For less than 3 grand, you can find crew cab fords (Late 80's-early 90's IDI's) all over the place.
And to the guy that said that anything with 170k on it was falling apart around the engine needs to come check out my 20 year old truck.
Everything still works except the digital display on the factory radio.
I'm done griping.

Doing some rough figures...

my 454 crew cab dually gets about 8mpg, average. Less, towing a rig, but let's be generous. :D

100k mi @ 8mpg = 12,500gal * 3.50/gal = $43,750.00!!! /100k = $0.43/mi fuel cost

The Cummins that's going in should get about 14mpg, at least. Let's be conservative. :D

100k mi @ 14mpg = 7143gal * 4.00/gal = $28,572.00 /100k = $0.29/mi fuel cost

So that's a savings of roughly.... $15,200.00 in fuel.... Granted, some of us won't use our trucks that much at ALL, and fuel will continue to rise maybe, but that's still worth considering, esp. if the debate is between used vehicles.

Next years 2500 Power Wagon 2010 might be a better buy for some folks.

It should have the new 375hp Hemi which is soppose to get 40% better mileage then the current 5.7 MDS. Figure better mpg then 6.7L CTD, .50 cents cheaper fuel per gallon, lifetime warranty + all the power wagon goodies like lockers, winch, tires, lift, flares, electric sway bar disconnects all for less then a diesel, guessing about $2-4k

I'd drive one and maybe buy one if the situation called for it, but would miss the power of my CTD.

I just spent $250 in diesel this weekend for 425 miles of towing out to the dunes an back. Was it worth it? Yep, pulling 12K into the wind thru Nevada at 70MPH and running 65 MPH up Donner summit passing mini vans in the "smooth lane" (cali high sierra roads SUCK ASS!) Yea it was worth it. GO DIESEL!

For the overall cost difference, no. we got a 1/2 ton 5.3L gas truck, it will tow everything we need it to, gets better mileage and is more comfortable than our diesel was. We thought long and hard about rebuilding the diesel truck, (not the engine the rest of the truck) but with the cost of upgrading the transmission, redoing the interior, replacing all the bushings, repainting it etc... we'd still have a noisy, slow (old 12V CTD) engine in a truck that had only 2 doors with lots of wind noise, and cost more to operate.

We'll likely only put 6,000 miles a year on the new one, we were putting over 20,000 miles a year on the old one, except for the last one or two when it sat broke more than it ran.

I like the hell out of my 2004 Lariate F250 CC, SB, 6.0. Programmer, exhaust, Turbo, injectors, head studs & heavy duty head gaskets. In the ball park of 500 HP. I need to have it dinoed. I make my own fuel (Bio Diesel) I make it for $1.17 a gallon. I can tow anything w/in reason. and it runs a 13.8 1/4 mile. 14 mpg in the city & 21 mpg on the hyw.

I was in this position just recently, and I went light on the tow rig. I don't pull any more then my jeep on an equipment trailer, might get a travel trailer down the road...nothing big. Everyone talks about how far and away superior diesels are for towing, and they are right, but most need a reality check. If you don't need to tow over 8-10k, there is no need for it, and most of the time for us hobbiests, no need for even the 3/4 ton.

I found a sweet deal on an 01 SWB Z71 with a 5.3. Gets a pretty easy 20 mpg on the highway, is super quiet, rides great, and is very comfortable. Tows my jeep like it's not back there. In my case, I can't afford to maintain and insure another car, even if I had the place to park it. Add on that, I just don't like driving cars. I enjoy the view from a truck. If you can only have one vehicle and are realistic about your towing needs, it's hard to argue against a half ton. They are pretty cheap these days.

I couldnt justify buying a diesel right now mainly because I don't tow enough stuff. I would only tow a 97 TJ with a 16' flat bed and an 07 Super Air Nautique 210 wake board boat. Heavily modified TJ's on here with a full body and 1 tons are at/around 4000 to 5000lbs and my wooden deck flatbed is around 1000lbs. I'm looking at 6000lbs MAX fully loaded with the TJ and trailer. The Nautique with a trailer is around 5500lbs but is about as aerodynamic as a barn door.

I'm in the market for a new truck this summer because my 2001 Ford 5.4 Screw has 135k miles and with 3.55 gears, the tranny is hating its life when either the TJ or the boat are behind it. That being said I kinda like the 8.1L Avalanches and the 07-08 6.0 Vortec Max (w/ active fuel management) in GMC and Chevy.

If you aren't set on new, get one that is pre-active displacement. You end up waisting more gas going from 4-8 cylinders then just loping along with the V8 not working very hard. lots of low milage trucks from a few years ago in pimp shape for sale.

In that case...I may just try and find a low-mileage 6.0 or 8.1 GM crew cab and deal with the horrible gas mileage.

I love my 99 cummins but it's a toss up..

I drive a company truck so i dont buy that much diesel, MAYBE 1 tank a month :flipoff2: but since i dont tow with it much anymore- due to work slowing down, i have been thinking about selling it. I used to tow 2-5 times per month, 700 mile round trip, 6-10k#'s it's really nice for that but now i tow that load maybe once every 5-6 weeks.

I dont buy a ton of diesel so i kinda don't care but also i realize becuase of diesel, my depreciation is catching up

Person i know got a late 80's early 90's cummins for $500 and gets free used atf from the local tranny shop. He runs one tank of regular diesel a month. other then that its all free. For going to the dunes we use are chevy with a 350 and get about 13 mpg towing a 16-18 ft trailer and 6 quad with all are gear. Doesnt take the hills real fast but truck was $2000 (nice excab 1500 1992, unknown amount of miles, odo read 165k since we bought truck) and all we had to do in the last 3 years is change the oil. My friends cummins (1995? first year new body style) we just had to buy 2 new batts, new filters and oil (holds like 9-11 quarts of more expensive oil,. I would only get a diesel if your gonna be hauling something heavy where you would need the extra power. I dont think its worth it for a D.D. unless you can do something like my friend did. oh, my friend finally killed his chevy. 7 years NO maintance what so ever!(not even oil changes, kids stupid) 454 turbo 400. Tranny went out while hauling 6 tons of hay up mt. sexton. (it was a 89 with 170,000 and got 12 unloaded and about 8 loaded with 4-5 tons.

now that its 4.90 a gallon i'd think twice about it but probally would still get one. if i did what I did when i bought my truck i would have kept the f150 since gas for it is cheaper but it still gets the same MPG.

Either way, there are plenty of CHEAP late 90's early 00's trucks around right now. No f'ing way I'd buy a new one.

Diesel for me. 20+ mpg unloaded, and mo power/smoke is just a few clicks away.

Well I thought I was gonna get a dmax but I found a better deal. I can't justify buying a diesel when I only tow once or twice a month (either my Nautique 210 or my TJ) so I picked my dad's babied 06 Ford F150 King Ranch 4x4. It has 46k miles on it and it gets good gas mileage. I took over payments and gave him my 01 F150 Screw 4x4. I hooked up the Nautique and just hit the O/D off button and it pulls just fine.

First on the list of mods are CAI, cat back exhaust, and an edge evo (maybe).

Bought a gasser, Ex Cab2500 HD in December. had 23K on the ticker, power everything. paid 15K for it. Diesels with the same mileage were in the 30K price range. I tow 400 miles per month, through some hills. It works for me

I get 9-10mpg with the 7.3PSD in my E350 service van. That's loaded to max GVWR and no highway (just windy and hilly rural roads over here). Its driven every day.

My 350TBI ate fuel faster with less load; and my folks' 454 ate more again.

The gas/diesel decision is a no-brainer for rigs that are heavily loaded most of the time.

Hmmm... would I buy/own an extensively modded 12v CTD that I only drive on weekends if I'm lucky... even though diesel here is at least a $1.38/L (i.e. 5.20/gallon yes, so quit your whining! ).

Hell yes! :D

If you've ever had the opportunity to drive one or better yet tow with one, you would understand. If you've owned both and decided to go back to gas for economic reasons I guess I can respect that. If you've never driven a diesel or again better yet had the opportunity to haul/tow with one (especially a modded one) then you really don't have a good basis for comparison. There is an economic factor I'm willing to live with for the luxury of a premium tool for the job, just like everything else. You want the best __________ for the job, generally you pay for it.

Ditching the D-Max due to diesel prices would be like kicking a supermodel girlfriend to the curb because the price of diamonds doubled...

Sure it sucks that I can hit the $75 limit on the pumps TWICE which requires feeding the credit card reader again, but it beats the hell out of driving my 89 F350 with a 460 that gets 4 MPG on a good day!

I had my heart set on a Dodge with the Cummings...and ended up with an 08 F150 Screw.

No regrets. I still salivate over the sound of the diesel, but the Ford tows and hauls everything I ask it to...which is mostly groceries and kids. Besides, my mileage is running an honest 15-16 around town and squeaks up bear 20 on the interstate...as long as I drive like an AARP subscriber.

Where can I find this "Cummings" option?

Yes, I would still buy a diesel.

If you plan on keeping the truck until it dies you will still be money ahead with a diesel. The diesel will last longer, with better fuel economy, than the same truck with a gas engine. Comparing an F150 to anything with a diesel is not apples to apples. If you only need a 1/2 ton then get a 1/2 ton. If you need a 3/4 or 1-ton, diesel is the only way to go, even with the 18% fuel cost difference at the moment. Diesel is $4.56 here, regular unleaded gasoline is $3.89.

Andy

I was in this position just recently, and I went light on the tow rig. I don't pull any more then my jeep on an equipment trailer, might get a travel trailer down the road...nothing big. Everyone talks about how far and away superior diesels are for towing, and they are right, but most need a reality check. If you don't need to tow over 8-10k, there is no need for it, and most of the time for us hobbiests, no need for even the 3/4 ton.

I found a sweet deal on an 01 SWB Z71 with a 5.3. Gets a pretty easy 20 mpg on the highway, is super quiet, rides great, and is very comfortable. Tows my jeep like it's not back there. In my case, I can't afford to maintain and insure another car, even if I had the place to park it. Add on that, I just don't like driving cars. I enjoy the view from a truck. If you can only have one vehicle and are realistic about your towing needs, it's hard to argue against a half ton. They are pretty cheap these days.


i think the above sums it up perfectly.
to many people think they NEED a diesel 3/4 or 1ton, when in fact they drive around 95% of the time empty, and when they do haul they aren't even coming close to the capacity of there rig.
most people towing a sami to SWB jeep sized rig to the trails once or twice a month should be able to get by with a 1/2ton as long as you drive it with respect for your load on a tandem trailer with 4 wheel brakes.
as far as loading goes, just don't let your old lady pack, you don't need to bring the whole fucking house for christ sakes..

i like diesels, i like the power and even the sound, but the added purchase and repair costs just aren't justifiable to me. i don't drive 30k a year, i don't tow a lot, and i do lots of short trips (work is only 5 miles away), all of which make having a diesel pointless. and i hate owning shit i don't use, so having a $25+ rig sitting there while a drive a POS DD just doesn't cut it. there is an exception i am considering though, and that is to buy and older dually diesel and put a deck on it to haul my rig. i live on a island (a large one mind you) and the boat to get to-from charges by the foot after 18ft. so it gets expencive quickly, I could also pack my rig and tow another light one and split the costs. since it wouldn be older and considerably cheaper, i would be ok with it sitting while i drove a decent DD. i'd save the cost of the trailer as well.

$5.09 in Placerville today, at that price there's no way id buy a diesel truck unless I absolutely needed it.

$5.09 in Placerville today, at that price there's no way id buy a diesel truck unless I absolutely needed it.

How much is gas? $4.50?

How much is gas? $4.50?

we just hit $4.oo here and diesel is $4.85:mad3:
But I love my 1st gen dodge diesel and the only way I'd get rid of it is too buy a 1st gen 4x4 5spd..all I know is gasser's suck for towing up mountain's at 6-10mpg when my dodge get's 15-18mpg towing my gooseneck trailer.

If you need a 3/4 or 1-ton, diesel is the only way to go, even with the 18% fuel cost difference at the moment. Diesel is $4.56 here, regular unleaded gasoline is $3.89.

Andy

$5.09 in Placerville today, at that price there's no way id buy a diesel truck unless I absolutely needed it.

Gas is 3.99 here diesel is 4.98...

sigh, and I was thinking of trading in our 03 2500hd 6.0 for a slightly older diesel, but that price difference hurts, especially when we hardly drive our truck, 5k miles last year, all highway with trailers (3-8k lbs)... Hard to justify the price difference in purchase price and fuel for what we do

I only drive my to tow rig to haul the trailer. The rest of the time it stays parked. I wanted to buy a new Mega Cab around Oct of 2007, but talked myself out of itwith how little I've been driving it. I kept my 2001 CTD and will gladly drop a few $$$ in it to keep it running right and drive the crap out of my Cherokee. The $.80/gal difference is enough to have me keep it parked and only drive the CTD when the trailer is going somewhere.

I only drive my to tow rig to haul the trailer. The rest of the time it stays parked. I wanted to buy a new Mega Cab around Oct of 2007, but talked myself out of itwith how little I've been driving it. I kept my 2001 CTD and will gladly drop a few $$$ in it to keep it running right and drive the crap out of my Cherokee. The $.80/gal difference is enough to have me keep it parked and only drive the CTD when the trailer is going somewhere.


Same here -- almost bought a new MegaCab earlier this year. I am so happy I stuck with my old 96 CTD. I am riding the motorcycle everywhere I go now -- 45 mpg cruising around on 2 wheels is where it's at. The CTD will now only be driven to exercise the two turbos and tow trailers.

I would NEVER buy a new diesel now -- the huge payments and rising cost of diesel are just not worth it TO ME. Find an older diesel (Powerstroke or Cummins) if you really need one. Get yourself a motorcycle and enjoy the great outdoors.

You guys do realize that when burned, diesel has about 12% more energy per gallon than gasoline, right? It's the main reason that diesels are more fuel effiecent than gassers, you need less fuel to do the same work, assuming all other things being equal.

The rumor I heard is that big oil has started to index the price of diesel vs. gasoline based on this difference in energy per unit. In other words, the price of diesel at the pump will now always be at least 12 to 15% more expensive than regular unleaded. Around here, 87 octane is around $3.85/gallon, diesel is about $0.60 to $0.75 more, or about 15% to 20% more expensive.

If this new pricing stategy is true, it essentially shit cans the fuel cost arguement when deciding between a new diesel or gas powered truck. But diesels still have gassers beat on performance and longevity. You just can't expect a diesel truck to 'pay for itself' with fuel savings in this day and age. If you need the superior performance because you tow heavy loads every day, or if you have the disposable cash and want the superior perforance because you can afford it, buy the diesel.

Same here -- almost bought a new MegaCab earlier this year. I am so happy I stuck with my old 96 CTD. I am riding the motorcycle everywhere I go now -- 45 mpg cruising around on 2 wheels is where it's at. The CTD will now only be driven to exercise the two turbos and tow trailers.

I would NEVER buy a new diesel now -- the huge payments and rising cost of diesel are just not worth it TO ME. Find an older diesel (Powerstroke or Cummins) if you really need one. Get yourself a motorcycle and enjoy the great outdoors.

Huge Pmt?? I got my new CTD for the same price as a like capacity gas rig and get better fuel mileage.

You guys do realize that when burned, diesel has about 12% more energy per gallon than gasoline, right? It's the main reason that diesels are more fuel effiecent than gassers, you need less fuel to do the same work, assuming all other things being equal.

The rumor I heard is that big oil has started to index the price of diesel vs. gasoline based on this difference in energy per unit. In other words, the price of diesel at the pump will now always be at least 12 to 15% more expensive than regular unleaded. Around here, 87 octane is around $3.85/gallon, diesel is about $0.60 to $0.75 more, or about 15% to 20% more expensive.

If this new pricing stategy is true, it essentially shit cans the fuel cost arguement when deciding between a new diesel or gas powered truck. But diesels still have gassers beat on performance and longevity. You just can't expect a diesel truck to 'pay for itself' with fuel savings in this day and age. If you need the superior performance because you tow heavy loads every day, or if you have the disposable cash and want the superior perforance because you can afford it, buy the diesel.

I have heard that but can not get any energy traders to confirm it. The argument they give is the futures market and more demand here in the US and around the world.

Huge Pmt?? I got my new CTD for the same price as a like capacity gas rig and get better fuel mileage.



I have heard that but can not get any energy traders to confirm it. The argument they give is the futures market and more demand here in the US and around the world.

you forgot fuel subsidizing too. gasoline in china sells for $1.50ish (that's USD). Until the subsidies go away, the demand for fuel in countries that subsidize fuel costs will stay high and artificially boost prices for the rest of us. There is no incentive for these countries to use less.

Get used to it. Fuel prices are not going down any time soon.:(

Get used to it. Fuel prices are not going down any time soon.:(

If they ever go down, the only way they are going is UP gas jumped 30cents the other day up to 5.30 and as i type this its probally going up.

I see a moderate pull back. But not enough to say "gas is cheap". Its seems to to be the way its gonna be. High gas prices!

I actually had this decision to make yesterday. I had the option of a 95 F350 w/ the 7.3 and 130k for 6k, or a 96 F350 w/ the 460 and 240k for 3k. As much as I wanted the diesel, I could not justify the 3k additional price, the $1+ a gallon extra in gas here, and finally the extra $200 every 6 months on insurance. I ended up going with the 460 for all of those reasons, and the fact that it is super clean, pulled great compression, and there was zero blow-by. After driving it around today, I could not be happier and I do not expect that to change when I get the trailer and Jeep behind it.

My new job created an 85 mile daily commute - my 04 4door cummins was my commuter and tower (just one jeep buggy and camping gear) but even with ~21 mpg highway I can't justify the cost (~$100/week), so I sold it ($17K) and plan to buy a MB 240D ($4K) for commuting (~$55/week) and a cheap 3/4 for towing/camping only (looking at a nice 5.7L suburban for $3K). I know the 'burb won't tow like the cummins did, but it's mostly flat here and I pack light.

There is a big difference between what you need and what you want - I'm trying to do the sensible thing (but it's not as much fun as throwing caution to the wind and maxing out your line of credit).

97' PSD is parked out back, lucky to have an 85' Runner DD. What to buy? Diesels get better mpg pulling, so price difference may be a push.
Gas prices fact- Federal govt gets about 25% of the profit from all domestic crude production, long before all the rest of their taxation. How much is that costing us in increased gas prices? But, we're not really supposed to know that.