Looking for help/info on the 4bt cummins in a fj40. I understand it can be done, and cummins made lots of parts to replace the sbc in big chevy chassis. So, looking for fit, drivetrain length with different possible trans and tcases, cooling, etc... anyhelp would be greatly appreciated.
Love to own a diesel, and cummins have a great reputation, any other american diesel engines work? or as easy a swap?

TY,
H1

After you do a search :flipoff2: :flipoff2: you'll discover that you can swap in a Cummins, an Isuzu 4BD1T (or the current version if you want to buy new...), a Mercedes OM-617a (keep bugging the 4x4labs (http://www.4x4labs.com/) boys), and others.

The Isuzu comes with a Chevy bellhousing. It's apparently an easy swap, and it's mentioned in the TLCA FAQ.

You can also buy a new Toyota diesel from $pector if you happen to have a whole lotta spare money. :rasta:

I'm crankin' away on a web site about Cummins repowers into Cruisers and will hopefully have it up within a week or two. Hopefully that will provide more information and can show you some links.:confused:

As for fitting in, here is my logic:
There is only one Land Cruiser that I've heard of that had a 6BT installed. When I first started considering the swap a few months ago after a few phone calls and many emails I was able to get in touch with the shop who actually installed it. They used a NV4500 with AA adaptor to the 4spd split case. Personally I think the 6BT is a little too much power nor am I able to spend the thousands in custom axles etc that 6BT equipped cruiser would need. Anyways, I was instructed to use the 4BT on from a discussion board similar to this one but for Scout enthusiasts. There is even a whole section there of people who had put Cummins 6ATs (roughly the same size and output as a 2F) and 4BTs into their Scouts. The 6BT will fit into a 60 but it's a shoe horn and rumored to have some cooling problems.

From what I learned, on a FJ60 the NV4500's shifter was placed in the stock location and no cutting was needed to the dog house. I'm told basically the 4BT is the same as the 6BT minus two cyls up front. Same bellhousing, lots of the same parts, injectors interchangable etc. There are two injection pumps available, both made by Bosch, a Rotary VE pump which is easily tweakable and commonly found on used 4BTs and adjustable by hand for mild-medium power upgrades; and the Bosch P1700 pump inline pump which requires some disassembly to be modified but can allow the 4BT to put out well in excess of the 6BT's stock power output. Check out this page (http://cgi2.x-pointcgi.com/~dieselrepower/) and you will see this particular Scout which has in excess of 450-500 ft/lbs of torque and roughly 160 hp (about the same as a powerful 6BT). However, supposedly the 4BT is a rattly little bugger, I'm told the Crawltech FJ55 that had it installed (Click here for picture (http://www.birfield.com/~morgan/pigrun2001/index.php?image=img_1227-md.jpg&d=d.html) ) started loosing bolts etc after a year because the motor started rattling the truck to pieces. I'm also told that the motor was totally tweaked out putting out in excess of 400 ft/lbs. I also heard a rumor this weekend that supposedly the first year the 4BT came out there were significant recalls because it was literally rattling the Frito Lay trucks it came in to pieces. But then again that is just a rumor but from a fairly reputable source who knows his diesels well.

Anyways, story told short, I think the 4BT will fit in there fine with no doghouse modification. There should also be plenty of room for intercoolers, maybe even AC parts if necessary as well as front and rear fans should you encounter any cooling problems. I think the only limitation is the depth of the motor (some 3 inches or so deeper I'm told than a 2F) which is why I believe the truck will need massive lift or a spring over.

There are some picts of the 60 with the 6BT, when I get my site down I'll shrink them down in size and post them, but if you have a high bandwidth connection you can take a look at them click here (http://home.off-road.com/~stedman/cummins.html). The owner ran OME springs with add-a-leafs to cover the added weight. My assumption is that a 2F sits relatively similar in a 40 as it does in a 60, as far as engine depth and positioning. Therefore, my assumption is that because the 6BT and 4BT have almost identical height/depth that you can get away with a 4BT with a few inches of lift.

But please keep in mind that I have not done a Cummins repower and all of this is theortical. I guess these are my thoughts :emb:

Andre 87HJ60t leaky like the Exxon Valdez (thanks for reminding me Royal:))

Nice links- but I am suprised that, that FJ60 does not overheat with the stock radiator. Dodge radiators must be twice that size. The conversion looks stock.

Cool links. What's the going rate for a used 4bt ?

Good info - just one correction - your link was to W's air bagged 55, not Alan Lunghi's Big Stinky. This is Alan's Big Stinky:
http://www.birfield.com/~morgan/pigrun2001/index.php?image=img_1254-md.jpg

i am the one who did the 4bt in an fj55 aka "big stinky"
i would stay away from the 4bt for anything but a hardcore trail only rig . it will not be a good choice for a daily driver . the nuts and bolts didnt rattle loose after a year they rattled loose in about 10 mins after the first start up . they were locktighted and have held ok the nuts and bolts should be checked on a regular schedual . the engine was tweaked by a diesel guru and dynoed at near 750 ft lbs torque and 250 hp it would not stall and got great milage on the trail . i did rubicon both directions on about 4 gallons , all the way from one end to the other .
we are currently engaged in the proto type stage of the benzo conversion , it should be a great way to go .. the same bosch inline p pump as the cummins , the same vickers hydraulc pump as the cummins . luke's car has over 600k miles on it so reliability isnt an issue .
cummins engines are very expensive brand new with everything you will need runs about 12k dollars , of course you can buy an opld bread truck engine with 500k miles on it for 2500 bucks but call cummins to ask about a rebuild and they will tell you around 6000 dollars :eek: .
the benz engines can be had for about 200 dollars with about 100k on them they are smaller and vibrate alot less .
there are issues with the cummins in an fj40 like it will need to be spring over to clear the pumpkin . and then it will still be close . if you flex it on the trail you might hit the oil pan ..

Originally posted by fj junkie
we are currently engaged in the proto type stage of the benzo conversion , it should be a great way to go

What's the timeline for that? I keep hearing rumors, but you guys never answer my emails...

And where are all these $200 engines??? I haven't seen any around here yet... :confused:

Alex

Thanks for the info Alan and others, it's nice to hear some actual hands on information. There are a couple of guys who run them in their Dodge M37s and I was able to find about half a dozen or so junk yards with the trucks. There is a guy (who sounds a little sketchy) but he's on Ebay out of south Florida selling 6BTs for $2000 compression checked with less than 100K and 4BTs for around $1500. There is also a place up in Massachussetts that will literally cut out the whole section of frame and ship it to you that way, no messing around, $1500.

There are other options too, the 6AT is roughly the same size as 2F and fits into most cruisers great. Smooth and quiet, very similar to a 12H-T Toyota diesel, red line near 4,000 therefore safe at 3200. Only draw back is that it puts out roughly the same power as a 2F. It would be cool to see one of these tweaked out though :)

I'd be interested in comparing the 6BT to the 4BT as far as noise and vibration. The 6BTs certainly make their fair amount of noise. The new ISBs (16 valve electronic version of 4BT) are quieter and vibrate less. Plus much more effeciency, the least powered one puts out in excess of 400 ft/lbs at 145hp. (Seeing Lou's site encouraged me to go check out the Cummins site)

Me personally I'm operating on somewhat of a budget, I'd like to get it all done for under $8,000 including tranny, converters, and engine. Everything will be new except for axles and motor. For a little while I was considering the 6BT and the Scout people were telling me to stay away, that it would be so powerful that I would be dangerous on the road. I showed them the pic, I think they were maybe thinking of a small FJ40.

I'd be interested in other diesels too and what they can bolt to. Something 130 hp 300-400 ft/lbs, that can maybe bolt to a NV4500 or similar 5 speed for a daily driver:question:

Andre
87 HJ60t

a friend of mine has a roll over dodge with the top crashed in that would need an intercooler and radiator to be complete. i think he will take 2k for it. it is a 92 with 115k on it. auto so i think it would have a dana 70 rear end. so here is 160 hp with 400 lbs torque and reliable as hell. mike

just looked at that 60 series pretty good job of shoving that big heavy cummings in there. hate the way they did the intake from the air cleaner to the turbo, that has to hurt the air flow. mike

I looked SERIOUSLY at doing a diesel conversion on my Land Cruiser a few years ago and it soon became obvious that even with minimal labor costs, it was going to be VERY expensive, you can forget about doing it for $8K including the drivetrain unless you're going to use questionable cases and not rebuild the engine.

Swapping a 60 series to diesel is only worth it if:
A. You already have to replace the engine.
B. You drive above-average # of miles a year.

My friend Jeff Bryant did a very clean 1HD-T swap into an FJ60 and it's taken him a LONG time to amortize the cost of the conversion, and he drives from Northern CA to southern AZ several times a year.

My opinion may not be worth much, but I still think the Isuzu 4(X)D-T engine is the best swap for a daily driver 60 series, but they're not cheap or easy to find without a buttload of miles on them.

I am very interested in seeing what comes out of Alan and Luke's plans for the MB conversion, though I suspect the end-cost may have to end up being high.

Hi Henry,
-- I hope Texas is treating you well.

Here are the costs I worked out:
Used 4BT not rebuilt but compression checked & delivered: $2500
New NV4500: $2,500 delievered
Adaptor: $500
would be reusing the FJ60 split case from a 10/1985 or later but assuming you had to buy it: $500.
Then about $500 or so in shipping,

That brings it to $6,000 with $1,500 to play with for drivelines, motor mounts, crossmemebers, etc.

This is assuming you do all the work yourself (I estimate it would be well in excess of $15,000 if you have someone else do it).

The SOA cost me about $500 with shocks, but I did all the work myself there too.

Toyota option I considered:
1HZ from Japan, 30,000 miles, $2000 delivered (yes a killer deal).
H55F "inspected" from Marv with t-case $2400.
Same cross member, motor mounts, drivelines.
Turbo from Australia or Canada: $2000

Total $6400 with roughtly $1600 to play with.

Very doable I think!

Andre
87 HJ60t

Where can I get a 1HZ form Japan with 30k for around $2k???Put me on that list!!!

-Brett

Friend and fellow club member is doing the 6at in his FJ60.. They came in UPS trucks. UPS did a repower after drivers failed to let the turbo cool down between houses. Will have more info in a few months. Motor's sitting on the floor in his garage right now.
THey also came in desert storm AC units. So keep your eye open for military surplus rebuilt engines.

Erik.. in KC Mo..

From what I gather you need the 5 speed for a 6 At. The 4 speed just won't cut it. If your planning the swap $2400 for the spectre deal would be a wise choice.
Did Chevy ever make a 5 speed trans that will bolt up to the standard pattern?( would a 5 speed spicer bolt up to a chev pattern?) If so these engines are available.

http://www.lewdon.com/diesel.html

Originally posted by bennett
From what I gather you need the 5 speed for a 6 At. The 4 speed just won't cut it. If your planning the swap $2400 for the spectre deal would be a wise choice.
Did Chevy ever make a 5 speed trans that will bolt up to the standard pattern?( would a 5 speed spicer bolt up to a chev pattern?) If so these engines are available.

http://www.lewdon.com/diesel.html


Looks to me like that is the same bellhousing pattern as a small/big block chevy, as well as other engines. Should not be too hard to get a bellhousing for that...

If you have a LWB Cruiser you could swap the MB diesel with stock MB transmission and all and then swap in a divorced NP200 or NP205. If you use the 200 you could keep the offset cruiser rear as it has two outputs - one center and one offset.

If you found a good deal on 300D car and bought the transfercase from Boyce equipment you could do a swap like this DIY for a lot less than $8000. More like $4000 and that's on the fat side.

There was a sweet 300TD for sale here in Potomac MD last year. Wrecked with low miles for $1000.00 If you can find a deal like that!


-Stumbaugh

Cheapest possible LC diesel swap

Buy a diesel scout for next to nothing $1000

If you get a 1980, they come with a Dana 300 transfercase.

Swap in the entire drivetrain, T18 ? and all.

Swap in the rear axle - dana 44, maybe the front too.

It's the same unit that was used in the Patrol and is used in other aplications. There is an outfit out west that sells parts and complete engines.

Sell off the rest of the scout.

have the stock driveshaft modified to fit.

Not the best diesel, but certainly cheap and they are around for cheap.

-Stumbaugh

Andre,

I think you are missing a lot of the parts needed to complete the conversion. Radiator, hoses, motor mounts of some sort, new drivelines, crossmember fabrication, clutch parts, EXHAUST are just some of the parts I can think of off the top of my head. I know because when I did my 350TBI swap I forgot to include some of these costs. Like I totally spaced out that I needed a new exhaust, I got a deal on it but they guy said he'd charge $500 at least if he was to do it again. Lots of bends to keep it above the skid plate. And for a diesel 3" or larger is expensive. I would say take whatever you really figure and then add at least a 1/3rd more. Someday I'm going to build a diesel 80 series. If I research for another 2 years or so, I might have a chance at being ready for that conversion.

Originally posted by Stumbaugh
[

If you found a good deal on 300D car and bought the transfercase from Boyce equipment you could do a swap like this DIY for a lot less than $8000. More like $4000 and that's on the fat side.

There was a sweet 300TD for sale here in Potomac MD last year. Wrecked with low miles for $1000.00 If you can find a deal like that!

-Stumbaugh [/B]

We picked up a 300TD several weeks ago for $300 and I don't think It will be a good swap for a cruiser...the front sump oil pan will cause a ton of grief and I think the stroke is a little on the short side. This engine had 95k on it and its going into a VW vanagon..
I have got pictures of the Merc 300TD,and a Mitsubishi 6dr5 in a FJ 55, a Cummins 6At in a 55 and My favorite .....................

The Nissan FD 4.6TA , 145 Hp @ 2800 rpms 282 cubic inch. These came in the forward cabover trucks. The engine is 29" long from BH mount to front of water pump. If anyone wants picts let me know.

bennett

HI Eric,
Sounds like we're on the same page....
...Likewise I might build a 80 some day too :)

Andre

Originally posted by lcsixty

I think you are missing a lot of the parts needed to complete the conversion. Radiator, hoses, motor mounts of some sort, new drivelines, crossmember fabrication, clutch parts, EXHAUST are just some of the parts I can think of off the top of my head. I know because when I did my 350TBI swap I forgot to include some of these costs. Like I totally spaced out that I needed a new exhaust, I got a deal on it but they guy said he'd charge $500 at least if he was to do it again. Lots of bends to keep it above the skid plate. And for a diesel 3" or larger is expensive. I would say take whatever you really figure and then add at least a 1/3rd more. Someday I'm going to build a diesel 80 series. If I research for another 2 years or so, I might have a chance at being ready for that conversion.

Originally posted by bennett


We picked up a 300TD several weeks ago for $300 and I don't think It will be a good swap for a cruiser...the front sump oil pan will cause a ton of grief and I think the stroke is a little on the short side. This engine had 95k on it and its going into a VW vanagon..
I have got pictures of the Merc 300TD,and a Mitsubishi 6dr5 in a FJ 55, a Cummins 6At in a 55 and My favorite .....................

The Nissan FD 4.6TA , 145 Hp @ 2800 rpms 282 cubic inch. These came in the forward cabover trucks. The engine is 29" long from BH mount to front of water pump. If anyone wants picts let me know.

bennett

Can you post these picts? If not I'd love to have them, the 6dr and 6AT I've seen but I'd love to see the picts of the Nissan.

Thanks!

Andre @ ashoumat@zoo.uvm.edu

Sent ya the pictures Andre.............no red star or I'd post em'.