Here is a question.

[89breaker]

What separates an expedition type vehicle and a standard vehicle?

Is it that they are usually built on common platforms like Landcruisers, special vehicle preparations, or the packing list?

I was figuring there might be some useful ideas the rest of us might find helpful.

[dahoyle]

Well, I would have to say, that the most important aspects would be durability, room for spare parts, and availability of spare parts wherever you are operating said vehicle.

[Beat95YJ]

When I think of Expedition rigs, I think heavy, slow 4wd with some interior accommodations.

That big red Chevrolet truck in 4Wheel & Offroad for Example. Not the most capable wheeler ever, but it will likely get you where you are going.

Only pic I can find, and it definately is not looking like an expedition truck here:
http://images.4wheeloffroad.com/projectbuild/131_0605_03_z+1991_ifs_chevy_silverado+drivers_sid e_view.jpg

[89breaker]

Isn't that the same truck that 4wd & off-road did a budget build on for camping?

Then about 6-12 months later they advertised it as a neglected truck that needed a new interior?

[Que_Honda!]

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/camping/131_0609_chevrolet_silverado_camping_accessories/index.htmlyes sir, it's looking good know though.

[MajorPayne]

here is a website that ive known about for a while, its in regards to an international super scout II expedition vehicle that a guy built for a LONG trip (im a little biased since it IS a scout :P )

the whole website is worth checking out and reading his story

if you go to the main page (http://www.canaryinacoalmine.com) and go down to "jesse's page" it shows his rig and what he did to it to make it capable for a long trip, pretty cool stuff

hope you guys like it, it gave me a lot of inspiration to build an expedition rig :beer:

[romeolimagolf]

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/

http://expeditionportal.com/

[MajorPayne]

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/

http://expeditionportal.com/

good links :beer:

[RustyNailJustin]

I have a 1984 FJ60 Land Cruiser down in New Castle Australia, I use it when I travel down there (not near enough). This vehicle is what I would consiter a true expedition platform.
Fairly capable, haul lots of fuel, parts, gear, and there are millins of them down under. THis car has criscrossed the continet a few times, including the harsh interior. Runs on petro or propane, cares enough fuel to go about 800 miles.
The last picture brings up another good point... We lost a rear pinion bearing but cause the front is identical we were able to swap 3rds and keep truckin:grinpimp:

[RustyNailJustin]

There is a built in bed so you dont have to unload all your gear you just sleep above it.
It all packs up nice and neat. this is with 3 people traveling in this car.

[MajorPayne]

thats cool justin,

thats how i hope to have my scout II traveler...its a turbo diesel, so it gets pretty good mileage (im sure at least as good as a land crusier i imagine), plus it has a 33 gallon tank, so it will have a good range.

on top of that im going thru the 44s and freshening them up, as well as making areas for tool storage, first aid, etc

ill post a link once i do a build up thread :beer:

[ChiScouter]

I was following that scout guys travel log. I wonder how his trip ended , or if he is still out there somewhere in a ditch:eek:

[MajorPayne]

I was following that scout guys travel log. I wonder how his trip ended , or if he is still out there somewhere in a ditch:eek:

yeah i dont know, id like to know as well....i may email him just for the heck of it

btw is your SSII an original...reason i ask is that i want to find some door frames, skins, and inserts for my traveler...im gonna have to modify the skins and frames, but it should be cool when its done

[Todd W]

It is my belief there are many levels of expedition vehicles.

IE: That red chevy is what I would consider a standard expedition vehicle that also makes a kick-ass tow rig.

While on the other hand my buggy I`m building I consider on a smaller scale 'expedition' rig. It will be capable of holding ~30g of fuel, 5-10g of water, and a large amount of storage for all my spare parts and tools. It wont see long expeditions but it wouldn't be uncommon to see 50+ miles (+ playing around) in the snow during winter / camping. What sets it in expedition type vehicle status to me is that I`m making the cab water proof, it will get doors a windshield, a heater, and other SMALL things that a lot of people leave off to save weight, etc.

Since it's trailered no-on road duty, if it was not trailered it would have been made to accommodate more and would be setup to do 200 miles round trip.

By definition a jeep setup to do the rubicon is an expedition vehicle, and I go along with that.
Some expeditions are just longer than others.

[rocknbronco]

I think the Chevy would make a good platform myself but the Cruiser is the shizzle my nizzle.

[WallyP226]

This is a cool folder. Glad to see it.

I lurk more than I post, because I don't have time nor the desire for an extreme rock or comp type buggy but enjoy reading the build ups and learning some of the technical aspects of fabrication.

To me, an expidition vehicle is a reliable vehicle that has been modified to for eating, sleeping, living as well as ability to travel 4-500 miles between fill ups in moderatly technical terrain.

I have always enjoyed the camel trophy type rigs, have really enjoyed the Toyota expidition vehicles ie old school FJs 80s, Double Cab Tacomas.

Wally

[OlympicYJ]

I consider a rig that someone uses to go out and explore new areas whether it is a long treck or a day trip but I would consider either long daytrips with lots of mileage or overnighters to be exploration rigs. I don't thing there is a single definition that can be applied to an expedition vehicle because you can look at all types of wheeling and people can point to some aspect of it and say, "well I'm exploring."

I use my jeep to explore old logging trails and roads, camping spots, and go wheeling in the process. For the area I wheel a jeep is best because it is so short. Toyota's do well too. In Western WA we have allot of treees and narrow roads and trails so there are spots where you can be too wide. I know, I beat the crap out of my buddy's chevy 1500 with 35's and my jeep only had 30's. The short wheelbase helps.

Just my .02 worth

[MajorPayne]

yeah, i think all the points everyone has made has validity...i dont think you can classify one vehicle type as more of expedition vehicle than another...except for 4wd and some ground clearance....apart from that anything could be one

anything from sami all the way to an oshkosh could be made to do expeditions

really its the way the vehicle is setup that makes the difference; with the key things being some of these:

-fuel mileage/capacity
-storage for gear
-off-road capability (depending on what kind of terrain you are traversing)
-reliability

i think those are the key ingredients, which could be incorporated into just about anything...i happen to be building my diesel scout traveler up just for this particular reason, so im glad i found this forum section :beer:

[Merlin_57]

I was into crawling and then I reformed myself :D

In reading this thread, there is alot of talk about larger vehicles as the basis for an expedition rig and I wanted to provide some alternative perspective on using a Jeep to accomplish the same thing.

My TJ was slowly being built to survive routine JV excursions and a change of jobs caused me to reassess some things. One of them was my rig and the other was that I got married and needed to provide for some comfort and convienence items if I wanted my wife to enjoy herself.

So my story is about making a standard wheelbase TJ into an expedition quality rig which is somewhat of an odd duck given for that purpose its size constraints. My solution to the size issue was to use the TJ as a tow rig for pulling an off-road trailer in the manner of what the South Africans and Austrailians are doing.

I left all of the axle, brake and t-case improvements I had made alone as I considered that if it was strong enough to survive JV, then it was perfect for an expeditionary rig. I left the armor I had installed alone for now but I did make a choice to swap out the high clearance but poor riding short arm suspension I was running for a nice riding long arm suspension in conjunction with Edelbrock remote resevoir shocks. This will allow us to survive miles of washboard or at least do so more comfortably.

I also reinforced the rear bumper and crossmember for towing, added a Mechman 220amp alternator and a Kodiack dual battery set-up along with a trailer charge circuit to the new 7pin RV plug mounted on the bumper. I also built up the 4.0 for more HP and TQ so it could be more capable pulling a load over mountain passes and during that build, I plumbed in a heat exchanger for a portable hot water source.

To complete my plan, I then purchased an Adventure Trailers Horizon offroad trailer equipped with dual batteries, an EZAwn 1800 roof-top tent, 20gal water tank, 2.5 gallon propane tank and stove and finally, an Engle 45 fridge/freezer capable of operating off of 12v. For personal comfort we use a Cabelas Adam & Eve dual sleeping bag, a PETT toilet and Pahaque privacy shelter for showers and toilet duties.

Since the trailer is of all metal construction and uses an articulating hitch, it will follow my Jeep anywhere I want to pull it. I've now spent several days straight on a number of ocassions out in the Mojave this winter and we just got back from a long weekend of white water rafting on the Kings River above Pine Flat Lake. The entire set-up is very user friendly, comfortable and provides enough space for 2 people and their gear. Based on this use, I'm convinced that the trailer was a good call and really the only way outside of purchasing a new truck, that I could make the standard wheelbase TJ work for my needs.

I have only 3 problem areas left to solve and two of them are already in the works. The Jeep has always run hot and the new motor did nothing to solve that so I have a Setrab fan driven engine oil cooler sitting in the garage. If I can get the rig to run at 215-220 with the ac engaged instead of 220-225, then I will be ahead of the game.

The B&M fan driven transmission cooler that I am currently using does not have enough capacity when I am towing the trailer so I have a larger Setrab fan driven cooler sitting in the garage for that application as well. I just need to find the time to get these 2 coolers plumbed in.

The 3rd problem is poor range due to only having a 19 gallon gas tank and frankly, thats the one real flaw with using a TJ combined with a 3 speed auto tranny. My best tank average towing the trailer to date has been 13mpg but typically its more in the 8-10mpg range which really complicates trip planning. My trailer is currently set-up to haul 10 additional gallons and I use a super siphon to transfer fuel which is at best, a temporary solution. Other solutions considered for the long run are to swap in an AW4 4 speed over drive transmission or get the larger Genrite tank. The budget is a little crashed at the moment as those Setrab coolers are not cheap so I am undecided as to which route I am going to take.

At any rate...a TJ can be re-made and thats my story. It won't be everyones choice but for me, it does work and I can pretty much camp where-ever I want which is a huge plus in my book. You can find some action shots of my rig and trailer on the link along with action shots of other trailers.

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12788&page=2

Thanx for reading :)

ps: Thanx Pirate for adding this section :)

[Todd W]

Merlin57 - Great post thank you.

Those Horizon trailers are nice. I am building/converting my older trailer into an off-road trailer and plans are very similar to the features found on the Horizon trailers.

Any features you think are missing on the horizon trailer? Let me know.

I also have plans for a nice shower on my vehicle. Dual pump, temperature control and pressure like at home. Utilizing boat deck cleaning pumps. A build is likely on this in the months to come as I have time.

[MajorPayne]

Merlin, thats a cool setup...much like I want to mine be in the near future

heres a link to my build-up thread here on pirate ( i also posted the same thread on expedition portal):

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=675540

[Merlin_57]

Thanx for the props guys....I'll get more pix up eventually.

Todd....I don't think anything is missing on my Horizon and in fact, the one thing I don't like about it is the weight penalty from all steel construction. I'm at 1700lbs loaded up so that makes for alot of trailer.

If I could drop that by 250lbs or so, that woudl be great but then I would sacrafice durability and strength. The frame on the trailer is huge and I do intend to add a bike rack and kayack rack to it. As for everything else....all I really need to add is an invertor for use with the the laptop and for my wife to use her blow dryer LOL.

Also on my shower....I use a Sureflo RV pump which I have mounted in an ammo can with hose disconnects. That way, I don't have all of that crap cluttering up my engine compartment. I simply clip the leads to either the trailer or jeep batteries and then connect the hoses to the underhood heat exchanger and its good to go. Heres' a link to that build....

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8398

MajorPayne....looking forward to your build. Old Scouts are cool rigs...FYI...there is a nice RHD Scout buggy in the latest issue of Crawl.

[Todd W]

Cool info on the shower I`ll be sure to read-up on that.
What you did is similiar to what I had planned too, keep it away until it needs to be used and then plug in and go :D

What I really miss about my buggy is the YORK I had on my previous JEEP. I bought it new (york) and built it to run a long time, it was used a bunch. Now on my buggy build I have a mini-arb compressor, and a 10lb c02 tank. Most of my tools now are v28 powered so I don't think i`ll need air as much mostly just for tires now.

[65SWB45]

This is a cool folder. Glad to see it.

To me, an expidition vehicle is a reliable vehicle that has been modified for eating, sleeping, living as well as ability to travel 4-500 miles between fill ups in moderatly technical terrain.

Wally

'bout sums it up for me too. Now you have somewhere to post! Look forward to more concise insights Wally.:)

[Mongoose87]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=364880&stc=1&d=1208048082

LOL at hatchet. Whatever gets the job done...

[MossMan]

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/

http://expeditionportal.com/

great links x2. I've been reading those for a while and that's definitely the best source of info for this.

I consider a rig that someone uses to go out and explore new areas whether it is a long treck or a day trip but I would consider either long daytrips with lots of mileage or overnighters to be exploration rigs. I don't thing there is a single definition that can be applied to an expedition vehicle because you can look at all types of wheeling and people can point to some aspect of it and say, "well I'm exploring."

I use my jeep to explore old logging trails and roads, camping spots, and go wheeling in the process. For the area I wheel a jeep is best because it is so short. Toyota's do well too. In Western WA we have allot of treees and narrow roads and trails so there are spots where you can be too wide. I know, I beat the crap out of my buddy's chevy 1500 with 35's and my jeep only had 30's. The short wheelbase helps.

Just my .02 worth

I would agree and say that the definition of an expedition rig is whichever one you happen to take on an expedition. You don't need fancy rooftop tents or Adventure Trailers, or gourmet camp cooking and no civilization around for at least 100 miles. All of those things just make the trip better. :D Just get out there and go; as you find the things that make parts of your trip miserable write them down and do it better next time. :flipoff2:

[1 Leg Lance]

To me what makes an expedition rig is the brain behind the steering wheel...I have traveled around the world and seen every kind of vehicle on every kind of road :)

But for those looking for an easy list of mod's:
keep it reliable - often means keeping it factory
keep it comfortable - covering alot of ground on trails means bouncing around, if you are sore or tired you will make mistakes and get stuck/broken
keep it about the experience not the vehicle - an expedition is about the sights/locations/trip, not the rig and what it can do
keep it on the trail - overlanding has a strong foundation in conversation, staying on trails, respecting cultural & historic sites, and the whole Tread Lightly thing

see ya'll on the trail

[g-wizz]

i guess i would think an expitdition vehicle would be a very simple motorhome that can actually go places. so really depending on someones "normal" rig they would either qualify as one or not.

[TrikeKid]

I see an expedition rig as anything you can do at least mild wheeling in, and camp in mostly self contained. So IMO, a pickup with a canopy, and basic accomidations so you can camp out of it is an expedition rig.

[PAToyota]

I'd suppose that it would mean somewhat different things to different people, but I'd say a basic description for me would be a purpose built vehicle that combined the abilities for self contained travel over a wide range of environments.

So throwing some sleeping bags and a Coleman stove in the back of the minivan or SUV and driving cross country wouldn't necessarily make it an expedition vehicle. Customizing an SUV for built-in storage space and sleeping might get you in on the lower end of the scale, though.

[bambi]

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/

http://expeditionportal.com/

Jeez. 95% of those clowns on the expeditionportal forum think an expedition is a trip to the liquor store in their 4x4.

[MajorPayne]

Jeez. 95% of those clowns on the expeditionportal forum think an expedition is a trip to the liquor store in their 4x4.

are you on the same expedition portal I am on? i dont get that feeling at all

there are a lot of knowledgeable guys with very capable rigs over there...and a ton of them go on some pretty cool trips all the time

[bambi]

are you on the same expedition portal I am on? i dont get that feeling at all

there are a lot of knowledgeable guys with very capable rigs over there...and a ton of them go on some pretty cool trips all the time
Yep, same one. The knowledgeable guys are the other 5%. And yes, I agree there are at least a ton of guys doing nifty trips.
2000lbs/175lbs= ~11 guys.... maybe a few more then that.

[The Adam Blaster]

Jeez. 95% of those clowns on the expeditionportal forum think an expedition is a trip to the liquor store in their 4x4.

I don't know how you're forming that opinion of the people on there...
They have a section devoted to "In progress expeditions" that name a myriad of exotic locations where ExPo members are currently "expeditioning".

To me, everything about that site is a hell of a long way from "going to the liquor store in a 4x4". :confused:

[bambi]

Oh come on. This site has some of the worse drivel, chatter and nonsense that has little to do with expeditions.

Expeditions in Europe? What the hell is exotic about that?
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=687

Searching for another pub- give me a break.
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406

Best US expedition town? Based on best place to take a weekend jaunt from?
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1667

Great Expedition Trivia Question - On U.S. soil, where is the furthest point from a gas station? 100-150 miles from a fill up is nothing. But wait, its got to be an expedition simply because of distance.
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2625

Another nonsense posting- Santa's new expedition vehicle
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3529

I wish I had said this- Though the sad flip side is... when You meet those posers that have all the coolest sh*t and flit about like they are gods gift to "expeditioning" and then you quickly find out that they just have spare $$$ and the dire need to look like an "overlander".
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3804

What is an expedition? They had to pull out the dictionary and then justify to themselves the camping trips they were going on were expeditions. Even trying to come up with a formula or rating system that was total crap. I was surprised as this was mostly from the ‘xperts’, although a couple of people tried to give balance. This posting is one of the things that put me off about this forum.
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211&highlight=expedition

Its sad that so many can distort the words expedition or overlanding to fit their couple days camping and fishing a few hours from home, let alone hundreds of miles away in places that when you get down to it, just plain are neither remote or difficult to travel to, serves no purpose other then to go pitch a tent someplace, drink a couple cold beers and burn a steak.

The idea of an expedition portal is fabulous, but the poseurs seem to have taken over. I even found myself checking the number of postings some of these characters have made before I read what was posted- I realized so many of these guys just like to ‘hear themselves talk’.

[The Adam Blaster]

I gotta say Bambi, you definitely spent some time to prove your point.
I guess i never looked too closely at most of the similar type threads as you have posted.
I originally went there for ideas on rigs+equipment, as well as ideas for destinations that would truly be great adventures.
I've read so many stories of trips about people travelling Asia, Africa, Central America, South America and on and on that those frivalous posts you highlighted didn't even pass in front of my eyes.

Are there poseurs there, absolutely.
I guess i totally ignored that facet of the site. I didn't even do it intenionally, i just searched for information i was interested in and found lots of answers and even more ideas.

But, there are certainly "poseurs" in any sense on every forum out there, including PBB. I certainly do not consider myself a hard-core rock crawler.
I enjoy 'wheelin, watching competion buggies, but to anyone and everyone on PBB i am certainly not hard-core.
I have however been on here for almost 8 years and feel i've contributed at least a little.
I guess there's probably members here i don't like, and don't respect, and many more that don't respect me, but that doesn't lessen the amount of information i can learn within the many pages of this forum.

Ignore the crap and there's VOLUMES of incredible information here.
I'd say it's about the same on ExPo. :beer:

[The Adam Blaster]

What is an expedition? They had to pull out the dictionary and then justify to themselves the camping trips they were going on were expeditions. Even trying to come up with a formula or rating system that was total crap. I was surprised as this was mostly from the ‘xperts’, although a couple of people tried to give balance. This posting is one of the things that put me off about this forum.
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211&highlight=expedition

Its sad that so many can distort the words expedition or overlanding to fit their couple days camping and fishing a few hours from home, let alone hundreds of miles away in places that when you get down to it, just plain are neither remote or difficult to travel to, serves no purpose other then to go pitch a tent someplace, drink a couple cold beers and burn a steak.


In this thread, "Flounder" did a pretty good job IMO of throwing away the notion of a weekend trip as being an "expedition". He began with this post, and went on from there... :laughing:

I'm particularly interested in the modern use of the term, "expedition." My take is it is far, far, far over used. When I did my 800 mile solo kayak of the Sea of Cortez, I really resisted using the term "expedition" as another guy had done that trip before me and while it was a ballsy endeavor, it wasn't like I was Shackelton or Admiral Bird. Likewise, when I did a solo ski traverse of the Juneau Ice Field, the newspaper called it an expedition and I asked them to print a correction the week later. 20 days on an ice field with skis, sleds and traction kites was more of a lark, or a nutty adventure than an expedition. Others had done it. Nothing was discovered. Actually, I did it on a bet.

I'm lucky to be pals with guys like Greg Child, Pete Taketa and others who have been on true, honest to goodness expeditions to places like Everest, Antarctica and Greg just recently returned from Pitcairn Island. Another friend of mine spent 9 months documenting the last days of Dr. Livingston in East Africa. Those are expeditions.

Sure, there's definately room for interpretation. One man's long weekend is another man's expedition. However, I do have to cringe when I hear someone say, "I'm doing an expedition across the US via car on backroads." My grandmother did that with her best friend in '91 with a box of Hoo-Hoos and a trunk full of golf clubs.

[Paul Gagnon]

In this thread, "Flounder" did a pretty good job IMO of throwing away the notion of a weekend trip as being an "expedition". He began with this post, and went on from there... :laughing:

I'm particularly interested in the modern use of the term, "expedition." My take is it is far, far, far over used. When I did my 800 mile solo kayak of the Sea of Cortez, I really resisted using the term "expedition" as another guy had done that trip before me and while it was a ballsy endeavor, it wasn't like I was Shackelton or Admiral Bird. Likewise, when I did a solo ski traverse of the Juneau Ice Field, the newspaper called it an expedition and I asked them to print a correction the week later. 20 days on an ice field with skis, sleds and traction kites was more of a lark, or a nutty adventure than an expedition. Others had done it. Nothing was discovered. Actually, I did it on a bet.

I'm lucky to be pals with guys like Greg Child, Pete Taketa and others who have been on true, honest to goodness expeditions to places like Everest, Antarctica and Greg just recently returned from Pitcairn Island. Another friend of mine spent 9 months documenting the last days of Dr. Livingston in East Africa. Those are expeditions.

Sure, there's definately room for interpretation. One man's long weekend is another man's expedition. However, I do have to cringe when I hear someone say, "I'm doing an expedition across the US via car on backroads." My grandmother did that with her best friend in '91 with a box of Hoo-Hoos and a trunk full of golf clubs.

I don't know Adam, he's got a point about not calling every camping trip an expedition but what you've quoted there just seems like a lot of chest thumping.

[The Adam Blaster]

I don't know Adam, he's got a point about not calling every camping trip an expedition but what you've quoted there just seems like a lot of chest thumping.

If you read on through his other posts, i think he's really just saying that the term "expedition" is cheapened by it's overuse.
But ya, i can see the chest thumping side too. :laughing:

I'm sort of in the middle on the term myself...
I mean, a person or persons, driving a single vehicle mostly self-supported through multiple countries they have never really travelled through before on pavement and dirt/gravel roads could certainly be called an expedition to me.
A weekend camping trip at a populated campground, not so much. :laughing:

So i guess, as per usual, i can see both sides of the argument and/or interpretation, and my views fall somewhere in the middle.

My original point is that the ExPo site has plenty of great info contained within.