Am I the only one worried here?

[Kurtuleas]

The Tahoe DEIS comes out between April 25th and May 2nd!

It is supposed to have like 10 alternatives!

Where is all the talk people? By this point with the ELDO DEIS, we had flyers going out everywhere, field trips with the FS, all sorts of meetings and announcements, etc.

I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but the Rubicon is a county road, (therefore that DEIS could not touch the main trail)......FORDYCE IS NOT!

That has me VERY worried.

Don't see me as chicken little here, this is the real deal.

IT'S TIME TO RALLY THE TROOPS! :evil:

Has anything been done yet with this?

MAKE SURE you comment on the DEIS, and remember: The FEIS will list who has commented and who had not.

I aks you: If the ELDO crowd just left the ELDO DEIS just up to our organizations, what would THAT FEIS look like?

Seems to me like we need a HUGE grassroots effort along the lines of ELDO.

[Kurtuleas]

OHV Protest Rallies for TNF:

WeBilt Swap Meet - 4/20/08 I-80/Central 4WD potential Fund
Raiser for Consultant/ Banners – signs can be posted on fence facing I-80 letter writing and analysis can be started here…

Roseville - 5/4/08 – I-80 and East Roseville Parkway/Eureka Road
Assembly at the Park and Ride on Taylor Rd. @ Sunsplash

Cisco Grove - 5/18/08 - I-80 and Cisco Grove overpass
Assembly at the Cisco Grove Campground

[tunaman]

i'm with you. me and my friend are quite worried and i'm also suprised that there hasn't been much discussion on here lately. as far as i know the trails most in danger of being closed are those with water crossings and fordyce has four if you include the commitee crossing. not only that but i heard the director of tnf is a super greenie. last year they showed us that they can arbitrarily close it when thay feel it's necessary. i hope cal4wd gets really incvolved with this one as they run sierra trek.

[Kurtuleas]

i hope cal4wd gets really incvolved with this one as they run sierra trek.


PLEASE do not get me wrong.....I fully support Cal4 and BRC..(especially John Stewart and Del Albright who I know work thier ASSES off)


BUT:


1. YOUR comment means as much to a DEIS as BRC or CAL4.

BRC wrote 1 again ONE! comment on the DEIS in ELDO. A few Cal4 people wrote in. Who wrote in? Read ELDO's FEIS! There are a few key names MISSING! What's THIER excuse? NONE!

I will tell you this up front. If you wheel in TNF and you DID NOT respond to the DEIS in that forest....I do not care. I will tell you to FAWK OFF. If you wheel in this forest it is YOUR responsbility! What would have happened if the pirate4x4.com LU group did not push for responces?

I will tell you what would happen. Alternative D

Thank GOD we have motivated people on the ground! (Too many to list)

2. Did Cal4 or BRC ask people to respond in writing to the DEIS and ge tthe word out to as many people as possible?

No, pirate4x4.com did

3. Did BRC or CAL4 hold letter writing workshops?

no, pirate4x4.com did.

4. Did Cal4 or BRC make sure the FS meeting were packed with OHV people?

no, pirate4x4.com did.

5. Did BRC or Cal4 hold rallys to protest the DEIS and potential closures?

no, pirate4x4.com did.

6. Did Cal4 or BRC have people go on field trips with the FS in ELDO?

no, pirate4x4.com did

7. Did BRC or Cal4 have letter writing booths at events?

no, pirate4x4.com did.

8. Did Cal4 or BRC have ride-alongs with the FS on trails?

no, pirate4x4.com did.


Again, do not get me wrong. Cal4 and BRC have their place. But they fight in the COURTROOM not on the ground. That is OUR job.

Do not rely on them to do ALL the work. If you sit back and just take this.....we will lose.

Remember, the FEIS lists who commented and who did not. RVERYONE NEEDS t ocomment on this DEIS!

As far as I know, Bebe and Rick Krause are leading this charge.....I say we follow. Hopefully more people will step up to the plate.

[randii]

Kurt, I love ya, man, but this isn't a 'zero' situation... our organizations can do more to lead and encourage letter-writing, but they are't doing nothing.

It is worth noting that Cal4 employees Land Resource Consultants to analyze and provide feedback (remember, it isn't a vote)... yes, we need members to respond more, but the LRCs are important, as well. Cal4 provided meeting space multiple times, and did publish some information to get the word out on letter-writing seminars, and the need for individual involvement. They let me do a letter-writing seminar at their office, and then let us do two seminars there, the next day. I and other Cal4 and BRC members participated in field trips, ride-alongs, and letter-writing seminars.

Pirate4x4.com and its users did an EPIC job of getting the word out and getting people involved, but there was other effort, as well, and at least a baseline of support through Cal4. More could have been done.

Do not rely on them to do ALL the work. If you sit back and just take this.....we will lose.
I *fully* agree with Kurt on this. Pur organizations can provide analysis and engage effectively at legislative and judicial levels, but individual users have the strongest voice, if they step up and make quality comments in volume.

Kurt and I worked hard on the Eldorado EIS... along with THOUSANDS of other letter-writers (awesome!) and nobody can argue that we had a positive impact on OHV recreation in the alternatives that resulted. We need to work at least as hard on the Tahoe!

Randii

[Kurtuleas]

Sorry Randii...


I did not mean it to come off like they did NOTHING.

What I am saying is: Many people just send in thier $$ to an organization and think THAT is enough. It's NOT.

INDIVIDUALS need to act.

And thankfully, many people here on PBB did that.

We need to do it again.

[randii]

What I am saying is: Many people just send in thier $$ to an organization and think THAT is enough. It's NOT.
INDIVIDUALS need to act.
Cool, man -- I can't possibly agree MORE with that, bro!

The harder we work as individuals, the more fodder is available if we get to the lawyer stage -- and lawyers are well beyond what most individuals can afford.

Kurt and I are in VIOLENT agreement -- we need to put as much effort into the Tahoe as we put into the Eldorado!

Randii

[Kurtuleas]

I went to the ELDO National Open house yesterday.

They guy in charge of implmentation of that FEIS said that they took into account EVERY SINGLE comment sent into the FS on ELDO during the comment period. The proof is in the pudding, in ELDO FEIS you can see the changes people made!

Your letters MATTER, you CAN make a change!

That is how this thing is structured. You voice has JUST as much power in it as any big organization.


Something to remember though. It works the same for the "other" side. Who is pretty butt-hurt about the outcome in ELDO. They will be writing letters asking to CLOSE fordyce. Are you gonna write letters to make sure it stays open?

[Bebe]

We definitely need letters, comment generators, a few small rallies, and lots and lots of your letters.

Did I say we need lots of letters???

WeBilt is having their swap meet on Sunday 4/20 at Central 4WD in Rocklin, we will have a letter writing booth AND we will be taking donations for:


Friends of Tahoe Forest Access
Friends of Fordyce
Friends of Eldorado
Friends of the Rubicon


Help us win the fight for our trails and the fight for our rights!

[Sno White]

Kurt & others,

The Eldorado and the Tahoe are totally different bears. In the Eldorado you had the maps of the alternatives to look at long before the release of the DEIS. The Tahoe is not being so forthcoming. It appears the maps and DEIS will be released at the same time. The Eldorado process has been so much more open to the general public than the Tahoe.

We don't know yet what the ~7 alternatives will be. Let alone what the preferred alternative will be. We don't know how much they have added to those miserly 50 miles of trails out of 2500 miles of unofficial trails outlined in the NOI. My bet is not much.

What do we yell and shout about! Until we can see and know.

This is the first local forest to go through the TMP without the interference of the courts and the associated parties to that court case. The Tahoe is and will be much different than the Eldorado. The NOI had the Tahoe loosing 2450 miles of trails!

The Tahoe is the first real line in the sand.

Does everyone need to get involved and write letters, you betcha!

See you all at the Webilt Swap Meet on Sunday.

[randii]

These are definitely different forests, but many of the letter-writing techniques will be the same, to stress recreational value and directly challenge specific parts of the DEIS. Heck, though the routes are different, I half-suspect that Tahoe will have copy-and-pasted much of the Eldorado DEIS logic, so many of the letters are already written! :cool2:

Not having the maps up front is a challenge in the Tahoe, but Eldorado refused to list their reasons for changing a route status in the DEIS, and only listed this in the FEIS... we expect Tahoe will release this in the DEIS, which would be a real advantage to anyone who wants to change the status of trails (remember that's both sides -- responsible recreation AND anti-recreation). Not having to work within a lawsuit is an advantage and simultaneously a challenge...

FWIW, I'm not sure it really *matters* what the forest frames as a preferred alternative... though I certainly hope the forest submits a TRUE range of alternatives (unlike the El Dorado). We need to work the routes and DEIS hard, almost indepedent of the preferred or proposed alternatives... and let the Forest respond to our comments as appropriate. If we get similar THOUSANDS of substantive letters from responsible recreation, the FEIS should reflect a favorable result, regardless of the initial proposed alternatives.

See ya Sunday,

Randii