I searched alot of posts about frame plating and boxing, but I really haven't come to a definite conclusion about which is better or why.
So, I'm looking for advice on plating or boxing, pro vs cons of each.
And the photo below should be evidence enough of why I am asking.
:laughing:
I never really realized just how bad it was till the Sunday when I was out wheeling and my buddy got a good pic of me flexing out.

Thanks

Lucas

I thought about boxing the frame on my new build, but decided against it. My thoughts are that it would eventually fill with mud that I would have no way of getting out, and just rot my frame from the inside out. I plan on stiffening up my frame with a full cage, and rock sliders. I think every guy that wheels a fullsize Chev has looked at pics of his truck and wondered how much of his flex was actually from the springs. :laughing: Here's a perfect example of me and my old rig before I shortened it and lost the box.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e293/screaminhd/Roper%20Farm%202006/RoperFarm10-06059.jpg

Yah, I swayed away from boxing the frame for Gutter Runners reasons. Also I believe it extra weight that is not needed. I stiffened my up by adding a crossmember here or ther and I am working on stiffening it up more with a cage and boat sides. Just my .02 cents


Its been said though that if it weren't for frame flex, chevs would have no flex at all.:grinpimp:\

Edit> compare the two pics above and all the body lines are flexed and panel gaps are in the same spots on both rigs...haha I love it....

Edit> compare the two pics above and all the body lines are flexed and panel gaps are in the same spots on both rigs...haha I love it....

:laughing: I thought I had seen this somewhere else before. Oh wait.... It was my rig. :laughing:

would it help to add steel to the outside of the C channel? not boxing it but just increasing the thickness...

I think it would help some, but would not be as effective as boxing. Without the fourth side, it would still be able to twist pretty easily. I don't know first hand, but thats the way I picture it in my head.

i boxed just from the bed back adding 2, 2 and 3/8 pipe cross members and it helped a ton.

365648

Does your toolbox not shut? Or did it pop open from the flex? :laughing:

hardface it. take 1/8 thats the shape of your frame and about every 10 inches dow it drill a 2 inch hole and weld it all up

just box it at the front, at the steering box and on the opposite framerail, and get rid of the stock crossmember

I have always heard if youre gunna box it, do the whole thing. I chose not to, I shortened mine from a longbed, and have tube where the bed is and will soon have an inner cage. I am also planning on 4 linking it front and rear one of these days, so I think it will be less of an issue. The only way I would ever box it, is if the body were off the frame, just because it would be easy.

Grumpy, you talking about the stock crossmember under the motor correct?

Thanks to every one for the replies.
I have also thought of making some strong crossmembers to replace the rest of the crossmembers under the truck.
I have also read on frame boxing that its better to inset the 4th side, or the metal used to box, just a bit inside the frame rail.
Any truth to this? I think it would make for a better weld surface area...


Edit: Hey Gutter, I actually broke the latches off on my tool box last time wheeling. Its held closed by a ratchet strap now.

my suspension flexs that much and my body not nearly. start with putting all the bolts back in the front clip, ive had my door pinch shut before but jesus christ you fenders rise 3" to the body line!!!!!


if you are going to box you have to weld the entire thing shut then use sleeve tubes any time you need a bolt to pass through or like above, it will just fill up and rot out faster.

Grumpy, you talking about the stock crossmember under the motor correct?

Thanks to every one for the replies.
I have also thought of making some strong crossmembers to replace the rest of the crossmembers under the truck.
I have also read on frame boxing that its better to inset the 4th side, or the metal used to box, just a bit inside the frame rail.

i mean the crossmember in front of the engine, where the steering box is. I removed mine completely, boxed both sides of the frame, and inserted a new square tube crossmember. I inserted tubes through the frame for the steering box to mount to, as well. without enough support, the steering box will just remove itself.

as for the cracked stock crossmember under the engine...After wheeling like that for years, i moved the motor back 13 inches, and fab'd up a new crossmember.

full cage > boxing > plating

I use boxing and plating where the frame will eather hit rocks or to distribute high stresses like steering boxes and motor mounts. But to fight chassis flex (and save your melon) a cage is best.

I boxed my frame in to the back of the cab. I'm gonna try to really clean out the inside of the boxed portion and swab it with some paint and I'm gonna cut some decent sized holes in the bottom of the frame so I can hose out mud and water.

I mainly boxed it this way to strengthen where my link mounts hit my frame. I will also have an in cab cage with kickers going from the top of the cab into the bed.

This is with my frame boxed back a foot past where the stock boxed portion stops and really stiff springs. I'm going 4 link this time around.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r57/TAWL_BOY/FlexShot.jpg

I had an old chevy with the standard tranamission. the clutch pivot rod would pop out under extreme flex. i installed new motor mounts, lengthened the pivot rod and still it would pop out. I boxed the frame from the engine crossmember to the transmission crossmember. Just made a cardboard template and made some plates out of 3/16" This repair solved my problem completely. The frame had a kink right at the upper front shock mounts.
If I ever build up another fullsize rig it will be boxed completely.......it is well worth the effort....

im going to be doing kinda what grumpy did, plus boxing in sections of the frame. i am also instslling an internal roll cage tied to the frame and an ORD high clearance cross member for the engine.

a stock blazer frame, when all torn down out of the vehicle, can be twisted about 6" easily by hand. I was shocked by how little resistance to twist they have. Boxed it and now it is solid. I have added crossmembers and what not to a stock frame, but they never last and don't do anywhere near as good of a job as boxing the frame.

Is the chick on the right being a flamingo??

full cage > boxing > plating



I am going to check this theory out come Memorial Weekend. We are getting ready to do a full cage and hopefully it will clean up some of the frame flex for me. :D

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/ALTO%2024%20JUNE%2006/GETTINMYFLEXON.jpg

Is the chick on the right being a flamingo??


:laughing:

I'll post some pics of my most righteous frame flex.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3168/2829167699_c85e0eca89.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3217/2829167073_de699f7210.jpg?v=0

its just a chevy thing :flipoff2:





id box the frame front to back - with some .188 plate, but id cut holes every foot or so - think new f150 or tundra, under the cab its almost a solid box, then the farther out from the cab, more holes - helps with running lines and keeping it clean. i did this with a old 74 f100 - the front is boxed from the factory, we just added plate and new x members -


or box a little and ad a fullcage - i did it to my truggy, the frame only flex's 1/8-3/16 from one end to another - but it has over 150' of 1.75 .120 wall in her

I didn't realize how much flexing a 1/2 ton frame can do :eek: !

I didn't realize how much flexing a 1/2 ton frame can do :eek: !

Ford and GM of the era are just as bad as one another. The Ford frames just aren't know for cracking quite as much since the steering box area is already boxed and the crossmembers are a little more substantial (but not much).

Justin

I kinda like my frame flex. This truck sees less than 1000 a year but what little miles it does see are always rough high country beatings with no signs of loose rivets yet. Growing up my dad had a 1978 K20 pickup with a slide-in wrecker unit that ran over 20 years of AAA towing and off-road recoveries without any frame issues. The bed rails were tweaked from frame flex though. Below is my junk.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3108/2801585157_d5451e6d2b_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2801585417_dbf5ce62d9_b.jpg

Front and rear Detroit Locker validation run 2006 before ORD shackle flip, front HD shackles and Snugtop topper.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1073/1188128615_a77fda629a_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1311/1188997880_f28bdede65_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1170/1188127121_8212bd13e1_b.jpg

I boxed my frame and added a cut off driveshaft at the rear as a cross member and it seems to have helped alot. You can tell by the body line in these pics that it helped considerably.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd52/DieselS10/Pics%20of%20the%20Diesel%20S10/DSC02910.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd52/DieselS10/Pics%20of%20the%20Diesel%20S10/DSC02917.jpg

I boxed my frame and added a cut off driveshaft at the rear as a cross member and it seems to have helped alot. You can tell by the body line in these pics that it helped considerably.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd52/DieselS10/Pics%20of%20the%20Diesel%20S10/DSC02910.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd52/DieselS10/Pics%20of%20the%20Diesel%20S10/DSC02917.jpg




Wow!


I can definitely see the difference of minimal frame flex.

Thanks for the reference pics :beer: !

full cage > boxing > plating

+1

But keep in mind if you expect your frame not to rip apart where the cage attaches, weld on some decent size plates to distribute the load, then attach the tube to those plates. My cage helped, until it ripped the chunks of frame it was attached to off!

+1

But keep in mind if you expect your frame not to rip apart where the cage attaches, weld on some decent size plates to distribute the load, then attach the tube to those plates. My cage helped, until it ripped the chunks of frame it was attached to off!




Yep, Scab plates they're called :p .

Frame flex helps keep the wheels on the ground though. If you stiffen it up, you need a lot more down travel to maintain tire contact.

Frame flex helps keep the wheels on the ground though. If you stiffen it up, you need a lot more down travel to maintain tire contact.
Very true, but very bad frame flex can be very hard on the body and mounts too. Before I added the diesel, 1-tons, and the ex-cab I wheeled it alot with the frame completely stock with a body lift and a 1/2 ton SAS, the frame flexed enough to destroy the cab mounts.

Very true, but very bad frame flex can be very hard on the body and mounts too. Before I added the diesel, 1-tons, and the ex-cab I wheeled it alot with the frame completely stock with a body lift and a 1/2 ton SAS, the frame flexed enough to destroy the cab mounts.

Frame flex is hard on body mounts, but the extra leverage of your body lift didn't do your cab mounts any favors.

Yep, Scab plates they're called :p .

:flipoff2:

Just describing them in terms people who don't do this for a living would easily understand. :p

I read though these post just for the knowledge base. So this is just a thought. for those who don't wont to box the frame do to mud filling it, why not just drill a 1/4 inch hole every couple of feet and fill it with expanding foam. takes up all the space so you can have your box with no mud.

Skeeter

I read though these post just for the knowledge base. So this is just a thought. for those who don't wont to box the frame do to mud filling it, why not just drill a 1/4 inch hole every couple of feet and fill it with expanding foam. takes up all the space so you can have your box with no mud.

Skeeter

how much do you think that would cost to do? sounds like a good idea as long as it does not cost to much.

I read though these post just for the knowledge base. So this is just a thought. for those who don't wont to box the frame do to mud filling it, why not just drill a 1/4 inch hole every couple of feet and fill it with expanding foam. takes up all the space so you can have your box with no mud.

Skeeter


That would keep the mud out, but I'll bet that shit would absorb moisture which would rust the frame out anyway.

:flipoff2:

Just describing them in terms people who don't do this for a living would easily understand. :p




Roger that :) .

That would keep the mud out, but I'll bet that shit would absorb moisture which would rust the frame out anyway.

It definately will retain water/moisture and accelerate rust through..IMO. May be OK for those in the dry arid southwest.....that don't do water crossings.

well i don't know about holding moisture that is why I said it might work. my step dad used to do taxidermy and he made is own molders using this stuff. It also used for insulation in new homes around here. If you choose to do it. I wold say about 3 cans per side maybe 4. the run around 5 buck per can so 0 bucks are less would do it. to help with the moisture issue you could always seal the holes with silocone after it cured.

Skeeter

old thread rather bring this back from the dead then start a new one


boxing, plateing, cage...what about 3/16 plate inserted @ 90* in the C channel welded in at say 6" or 12" on centers or what ever spaceing. this would essentialy forming many little 5 sided boxes in the frame. allow dirt and moister to escape easy of cleaning.

could be boxed fully in on a later date and essential would be stronger then a hollow box tubing correct?

Not really, in that position the plates wouldn't really oppose the twisting of the frame. Besides that would be a lot of work, a lot of cutting and welding.

From one of the previous post, the boxing and foam filling would make for a very strong and rigid frame. Lots of the guys that did demo derbies would box and fill the frames until it was all but banned by sanctioning bodies as it made the frames too strong. Many performance cars such as the newer Vettes have foam filled frames as it is a light alternative to using thicker and heavier materials. As for it trapping moisture I don't see this being a problem. When the foam is expanding it is very sticky (anyone that has dealt with the stuff knows that), and would seal the frame and prevent moisture build up. Next time just start a new thread instead of pulling up a three year old thread.

. Next time just start a new thread instead of pulling up a three year old thread.

what type of foam? like basic touch n foam for constuction work?


flamed for using the "search" button :laughing::flipoff2:

what type of foam? like basic touch n foam for constuction work?


flamed for using the "search" button :laughing::flipoff2:

I would advise against using homo depot foam in the cans..OEM's use a specially formulated foam that helps with noise & vibrations it doesnt make the frame stronger in the sense that we need..

If your gonna spend the time to box the frame and fill it with a case of foam why not spend the same case on some plate and weld up the ends..At least with metal it will help more than some insulating foam will

If we're talking specifically about 73-87 GM frames here with their riveted crossmembers, I'll volunteer my 2 cents. I've got a SWB truck built on a 1978 model half ton frame. In stock form, the frame would flex enough to throw all the bodywork out of alignment (couldn't open the doors with the frame twisted up).

I fabricated a winch mount up front from some healthy rectangular tubing, welded solidly to both framerails. Also capped off the rear with rectangular tubing---also solidly welded. Nothing was done to plate or box the framerails themselves other than what was added at the ends. Difference was night and day---tightened up the frame tremendously. Worked for me...

Boxing or plating the framerails will improve their strength, but if nothing is done to more effectively tie the two framerails to each other, then I'm not sure you would see a massive improvement.

I know lots of us going to 52" front springs are capping off the front of the frame with rectangular tubing. Has anyone who has done this noticed a similar improvement in frame stiffness?

Frame=81 3/4t
I added a trailer hitch welded to the front frame rails and the rear I beefed up from the PO booty fab. I also noticed a great improvement, overall a more stable feel.

I have the ORD steering box brace and while doing my 63" swap I decided to box the frame from rear to the ffront hanger of rear suspension. I have seen a couple frames kink at the bumps for the rear shocks and the frame is alot smaller there so I figured it would eb a good thing :)

I am not doing any type of boxing on the rest as I feel all my new beefy crossmembers will stiffen the rest up.(trans, divorded case and ladder bar shacke crossmembers)

I think the boxed part will be easy enough to pressure wash out. How does this plan sound??

If we're talking specifically about 73-87 GM frames here with their riveted crossmembers, I'll volunteer my 2 cents. I've got a SWB truck built on a 1978 model half ton frame. In stock form, the frame would flex enough to throw all the bodywork out of alignment (couldn't open the doors with the frame twisted up).

I fabricated a winch mount up front from some healthy rectangular tubing, welded solidly to both framerails. Also capped off the rear with rectangular tubing---also solidly welded. Nothing was done to plate or box the framerails themselves other than what was added at the ends. Difference was night and day---tightened up the frame tremendously. Worked for me...

Boxing or plating the framerails will improve their strength, but if nothing is done to more effectively tie the two framerails to each other, then I'm not sure you would see a massive improvement.

I know lots of us going to 52" front springs are capping off the front of the frame with rectangular tubing. Has anyone who has done this noticed a similar improvement in frame stiffness?

i have 52s up front currently with B52 kit.
out side of frame twisting, i get frame flexing @ the front spring shackle hangers as much as 1".
i plan on/started geting stuff ready to box the front. i am putting 1.5"x6" flat stock verticlly in the frame every 6" then close it up with 3/16 plate essentially make a 2x6x3/16 box that is "baffeled".. this will give me a boxed frame that is torsionally stiffer then a traditional hollow box frame.

can you guys who actually have to deal with rust figure out a way to either attach a zinc block to your frame or something. they do to ships so im sure it works. dont see why it couldnt be applyed to a truck. i dont know how many or where you would need to put them, but its that big of an issue for you guys its def something to check out.