ive rolled, scrapped and destoyed sections of a 1.75" x 0.120 wall DOM sliders and complete exo. it just isnt up to the task if youre gonna use it for what it was built for. i am building a new rig and need to build the main structure and rock sliders out of either thicker DOM or schedule 80 pipe. DOM is soft, it gouges, bends and absorbs inpact great, but schedule 80 pipe is hard and takes scraps really good like rock sliders and outer legs of the exo would need to. and i intend to use the entire cage as a rock slider...

i dont wanna hear any bullshit about how pipe is for plumbers and tubing is for cages. if that really is your opinion, then you plan and simple havent wheeled for shit in a heavy trail rig and actually used any of your "tubing" for real world wheelin. im not saying thicker wall DOM or HREW isnt up to the task, im just saying that ive had nothing but probs with 0.120 wall DOM sliders and exo outers in REAL world aggresive wheelin situations.

lets have it. throw some opinions out there, weight, wall thickness, schedule 40 maybe??

Well, I have sch 40 on my cage bars for my bed, and where i saw 120 dent, my 40 held up with some scrapes, and its like almost 6' from back pad to where it ties into the front hoop. And When I go to build my buggy, i will be using non DOM for the outer structure/areas that will be banged against rocks, plain and simple, it may not ABSORB the hard blow that DOM does, but you are morelikey to get hit walking down the street than you are to take a hard multi toss barrel roll..

why not step up to .188 or .250 wall DOM??

Doesn't the $$$ greatly increase with that stuff??

Seems like the obvious thing to do is use pipe for the side bars and DOM for structural support around the cab. As for the sliders, I have 2x2x3/16" and I've dropped on them hard with only minor scrapes. I don't think the pipe is up to big impacts, so go thicker DOM if you want round. When you touch up the paint after the trails, make sure to file down the sharp edges ;)

DOM all the way.:beer:

speaking from experience, 1.5" schedule 80 pipe can take a great deal of abuse and laugh it off.....I'm running it for my lower link bars front and rear......... there are scrapes , but no dents, ( 1.5" sched 80 is approx 2" od with a 1/4" wall thickness)

for the folks who are recommending DOM tubing rather than pipe,
in your experience has the tubing held up significantly better than ERW pipe or tube? how does a process control (drawing over a mandrel and removing internal welding flash ) affect a materials resistance to denting or scraping?
or are you just parroting the " DOM is better " theory for fear of being flamed?

Go DOM. I just bought some 2"x.250 wall for $5.53/ft.

Pipe might work very well for the slider portion of a cage but take a look at this photo http://www.teamunimog.com/pics/05110036_1024x768.jpg
to see a cage built from pipe. And what happens when it's rolled. Apparently the builder used pre-made elbows and welded them together. If you look closely at many of the trucks on this site it appears fairly common practice.
Mike
:usa:

Originally posted by D110pickup
Pipe might work very well for the slider portion of a cage but take a look at this photo http://www.teamunimog.com/pics/05110036_1024x768.jpg
to see a cage built from pipe. And what happens when it's rolled. Apparently the builder used pre-made elbows and welded them together. If you look closely at many of the trucks on this site it appears fairly common practice.
Mike
:usa:
Well crips it's a damn tank, I'd bet any material would crumble with that little bit they have on it. :rolleyes:

I think you got the right idea Paul. You obviously can trash a rig quicker than anyone else :flipoff2: and it sounds like you plan to continue to try to uphold that. My biggest concern would be weight. Won't that get to be one heavy POS if you are using 1/4 wall tubing or pipe? I hope the bender is hydraulic too :eek:

THE PROBLEM WITH THE PIPE AND WELDED BENDS IN THE PICTURE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE FABRICATOR NOT A PROBLEM WITH THE MATERIAL. IF THE WELDS WER DONE PROPERLY IT WOULDN'T HAVE BROKE! I'VE USED THESE ON BUMPERS AND STUFF FOR YEARS ON MY TRUCK AND OTHERS I'VE BENT TUBE, FRAMES AND OTHER STUFF BUT NEVER BROKE THE FITTING OR THE PIPE.

For the pipe stuff, the SCH 80 is almost 1.5lbs/ft heavier, for 2" nominal, with a difference of .064" wall thickness. I think 40 would be good. I would rather start out being light on something like sliders, then having to rebuild, than have it too heavy for your needs, and carry extra weight around...

1.5" nominal SCHD 80 vs SCHD 40, wall thickness .200-.145, weight/ft 3.63-2.71

Originally posted by D110pickup
Pipe might work very well for the slider portion of a cage but take a look at this photo http://www.teamunimog.com/pics/05110036_1024x768.jpg
to see a cage built from pipe. And what happens when it's rolled. Apparently the builder used pre-made elbows and welded them together. If you look closely at many of the trucks on this site it appears fairly common practice.
Mike
:usa:

Tha6t cage(if you want to call it that) is very weak in its design.. their is absolutely no bracing to give it any strength and the welding appears to be nonexistant where the cage came apart.. It appears that the body kept the "roll cage" from being further damaged.. I use pipe to build tha cages in my demolitian derby cars and have found it stands up to abuse much better than tubing..
The reason race cars use tubing for roll bars is for driver safety and to keep weight down.. the tubing used in race car roll cages was picked because it will deform in a wreck disapating energy that would othewise be transfered to the driver.. Pipe doesn't deform as easily as tubing and will work just fine( if his welds are good) for what booger weldz wants to do.. and will be alot cheaper than DOM tubing..

why not just use 2" .120 DOM?

-Steve

On my sliders. I used 1.75" x .120 DOM. Then in the high impact area I slip a peice of 1.5" DOM inside. It takes a beating very well. And I don't have to have the extra weight everywhere.

I'm using 1.5" schedule 80 seamless pipe for the links on my suspension. They have taken a few hard hits with nothing but scrapes so far. It seems to be pretty tough especially at 1/5 to 1/10 of the price.

I'd say for structural stuff use dom but for sliders use pipe more specifically use box much stronger. I use 3x2x1/4 for sliders and they hold up amazingly well. I have bent sch 40 pipe and have bent dom on my rear trailing links on nearly the same obstacle. (Guess I need to move those links up some) but I was using a much smaller thickness in the DOM. Granted it is more expensive but you can see how much stronger it is on any steel website. For just pounding stuff (sides of exo-cage sliders ect.) use pipe if the weight penalty doesn't bother you. For structural stuff (main hoops front links) use dom and if one size doesn't work step up a size. That's what I'm having to do on my rear links going to 1 3/4 1/4 wall. Best of luck man I feel your pain of the expense of DOM about to spend 150+ bucks on 25 ft of material sucks.

-ben

Originally posted by m016324
I'd say for structural stuff use dom but for sliders use pipe more specifically use box much stronger.

-ben

Ive heard that before use box for sliders there stronger?

so lets take a box and tube same thickness wall and same outer circumference, its not far to compare 2in to 2in cause the box has more metal!!

So if they were equal and we only compared the geometry strength Id say the box will resist a bend better but can dent on a flat surface easier then a tube would. Tube will bend easier but dent less easy.

SO if you build a slider out of tube or pipe, "round metal stuff" and brace it so it will not bend then it will also not dent. If you build a slide rout of box it will reqwuire less breasing but WILL dent more easitly becuase it has flat surfaces.

BOX would probibly come out lighter in a good design, and PIPE would prevent denting and look all Pretty.....

do you guys agree,

I had 2ft of box in one hand a 6ft of pipe in the other, so my sliders are pipe.... who cares what process teh metal was MFRd on, and who cares if my almost free pipe weighs a fraction more then a $$$ setup. Pipe is also coated too so if your pait scratches it wont instantly rust.

DOM is best, but not practical all the time, harder to find, and more expensive.

Originally posted by YELLER BLAZER
THE PROBLEM WITH THE PIPE AND WELDED BENDS IN THE PICTURE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE FABRICATOR NOT A PROBLEM WITH THE MATERIAL. IF THE WELDS WER DONE PROPERLY IT WOULDN'T HAVE BROKE! I'VE USED THESE ON BUMPERS AND STUFF FOR YEARS ON MY TRUCK AND OTHERS I'VE BENT TUBE, FRAMES AND OTHER STUFF BUT NEVER BROKE THE FITTING OR THE PIPE.

Good point but someone is going to tear into you if you keep writing in all caps. It doesn't bother me but,.......I'd just quit doing it.

sch 40 will work for ya Paul.

Originally posted by ashmanjeepXJ


Ive heard that before use box for sliders there stronger?

so lets take a box and tube same thickness wall and same outer circumference, its not far to compare 2in to 2in cause the box has more metal!!

So if they were equal and we only compared the geometry strength Id say the box will resist a bend better but can dent on a flat surface easier then a tube would. Tube will bend easier but dent less easy.

SO if you build a slider out of tube or pipe, "round metal stuff" and brace it so it will not bend then it will also not dent. If you build a slide rout of box it will reqwuire less breasing but WILL dent more easitly becuase it has flat surfaces.

BOX would probibly come out lighter in a good design, and PIPE would prevent denting and look all Pretty.....

do you guys agree,

I had 2ft of box in one hand a 6ft of pipe in the other, so my sliders are pipe.... who cares what process teh metal was MFRd on, and who cares if my almost free pipe weighs a fraction more then a $$$ setup. Pipe is also coated too so if your pait scratches it wont instantly rust.

DOM is best, but not practical all the time, harder to find, and more expensive.


Sounds good in theory, but I don't see it happen. I think the only way to significantly dent the box is a hard hit on a pointed rock, when the point hits in the middle of the box. I don't think I'll ever dent the edges.
And if you hit hard on a flater rock, it spreads the impact over the width of the box, instead of just the bottom on round.

Either way, if you're worried a piece is gonna get dented and not be pretty anymore, put in some thicker shit. And using .120 wall for sliders, that's stricktly for the very light weight rigs, IMO. Step up to at least .188" for sliders.

If you want the best in light weight and strength than you should be using 4130 chrome moly tubing. Compared to D.O.M. you have an approx 40% strength advantage so if you feel it to be necessary you could use a 40% thicker wall tubing and still be the same weight you were before. An experienced welder/fitter is a good thing to have when using chrome moly. If welded wrong it WILL break at the welds. The price is obviously more, you would have to check with some suppliers on your side of the country for and exact price, but it's typically double the price of D.O.M. Alot of places are low on inventory due to whatever reason...they say it's the steel mills.

Paul, I am using Schedule 40 on my sliders and have come off a ledge that was over 5 ft tall. Came slamming down on the slider only and it only dented it a little. Still on there and holds fine. I am also using 40 for the rear half of my rig for the cage section. It is heavy duty and will stand up to much abuse. Too many people think DOM is the only way to go. With the right gussets in the right places and support tubes where they should be, it will last indefinitely. Just my $.02 :D

One of you wizard give me some numbers on this. I am trying to decide b/t

1010 HERW 1.5" 0.120
1020 DOM 1.5" 0.120
1.5" Sch 40 Pipe

This is not for anything saftey related is is for sliders. The sch40 pipe is thicker and heavier (dont care about weight) even though it is weaker given the same dimensions. What I need to know is, what is the relative strengh of these three tubes in a slider application...bending and denting from impacts.

I cant get any 1.5" HERW thicker than 0.120 from my supplier or I would just use thicker HERW. The DOM costs roughly 7x what the HREW does.

heres a 1.75 x 0.120" wall slider after upper big johnson at JV

heres a generic example of meerly using the 1.75x 0.120 DOM on the exo at the window opillar to drop into the V notch above lil sluice

DOM absorbs the energy of fantastic high impact multy roll accidents, like in nascar, etc, by bending. but i think a good set of 2x6 .250 square sliders and exo outers of schedule 40 will be much more durablethrough the scraps and 4-5 foot max drops(hopefully:flipoff2: ) of rockcrawling....with my current chunks of 1.75 0.120 wall dom for structure of the flatbed and crossbars...

thanks for the help ladies!!!!!!!:D :beer: for everyone!

Why are you even asking, you've seen and wheeled with Randy and Dustin right? I've used it and my cage is about 50% HREW 1/4 thick and the rest is scedule 80 pipe. Granted it's hard for me to even make contact with the cage against rocks with my pile but I've done it and it holds up nicely. I would recomment 2X2 3/16 or 1/4 inch thick square tube for the rock sliders cause they take a beating and keep on asking for more. Mine, Randy's, and Dustin's are not deformed as far as I know. Make the rest from schedule 80 and never look back! After seeing your 4runner take a shiat with all that DOM I say you waisted your money, learn from it and go pipe!
:D

Paul, I know exactly what you're refering to with the regular tube vs. pipe arguement. There is NO way .120 wall 2" tube holds up to the abuse that rock sliders can dish compared to .145 1.5" schedule 40 pipe. I've seen it firsthand as you have that tube will absorb the hit and dent fairly easily. Yes pipe weighs more and is subject to all the ridicule, but it fucking works. The main front to rear runs on my exo are schedule 80 1.5" pipe, .200 wall. It is heavy as hell, but it works good. So are the roof halo supports to the sliders. The rest is schedule 40. I've dragged that thing through shit that would have dented tube severely, i.e. trails like twisted. A little work with the grinder and rattle can and it can look good again.

Lame is dead on with his facts on the 1.5" sched 80/40 numbers. I have a chart in my workvan with all the numbers on them. Schedule 80 is also seamless, no electronic welded seam. It actually bends cleaner and very easy in the HF bender too. Doesn't seem to kink anywhere near as bad as 40. I get 21 foot sticks for $44 locally in Phoenix.

Take it for what it's worth, I'll use it again. If the cage is properly built and braced, it'll survive a roll just fine.

right on fellow plumbers! pipe it is!!!!!!!:D

Originally posted by Booger Weldz
right on fellow plumbers! pipe it is!!!!!!!:D
right-on! but I hope no one tell's Billavista

my rear links are 1.5" sch 80 pipe and I hven't had a problem and you can jack the jeep up with them. I believe in tubing around the cab and pipe on the rest. My cage has a 50 mph roll on it and it barely tweaked and it is DOM. Seems to hold up pretty well except for the scraping and sharp hits.

Paul,
Don't do the 2x6 box sliders. I had them on my runner for about 2 months after I took off my AP style 1.5" pipe ones that were angled up too far. The 2x6 hangs up on everything, trust me. Once I was on those things, that was it, break out the winch. Mine were .188 wall and must have weighed at least 80 pounds apiece. Never did dent them though. I currently run .188 2x4 ones now and they work much better. If you can, cut notches out of the rocker panels to get them up about another 2.5". It'll keep you from hanging on them when the weight gets leaned on them. That and french in the rear spring hangers and you'll go far.

I made my sliders and bunpers out of 40 , and am now starting my exo and when bending the stuff that I bought yesterday I noticed that it was wanting to kink it. Then I noticed that the pipe was from china, what the heck. Then I noticed that the pipe wasleft over from befor was made in thailand:rainbow: Is this stuff crap or does it all come from over there. Is it my pos H/F pipe bender or the china made pipe that is kinking???

apparently 1.75" ain't from shit.. try some heavy walled 2" tubing.. i hope one day u won't wish u had that absorbtion effect.. btw, i think the dented up tube on your rig looks hot.. :D

pmurf1-

I get 21 foot sticks for $44 locally in Phoenix.

I just shopped tubing prices-

1.5" DOM/HREW 2"DOM/HREW

$1.50/$1.10 $2.10/$1.50

So why pay more for pipe?? It has a lower tensile strength and is not made to be bent. This being said I have run a pipe cage with no problems and I agree that it may be better for straight links. All of you that think tube is so expensive need to call around a little. Took me about 10 calls to find these prices. Also try going to your local fabricator and talk to him. He may let you order through him and use his discount.( I tried this too, but his disc wasn't as good as the prices I found)

I agree I paid $1.05 for 1.75" HREW

I used 500 wall DOM on mine and I am pretty sure I will never have a problem with it HAHAHAHAHA