Got some questions on a swap I'm looking at. I just picked up an '93 3500, 454, nv4500. The rig has 88,000 miles and in good shape. I also got dibs on a '90 Dodge 2500 with the 12V Cummins and 727 tranny. I want to swap the CTD into the Chevy, swap motor only and keep the 4500. Does anyone have any information on the swap for me? From what I searched I will need to pull the wiring harness and computer from the donor truck. Here is some of my questions:

1. Will the CTD bolt right up or will I need a diff. bell housing or adapter?

2. What about fuel? Can I clean out the gas tank? What about lines?

3. Any problems with brakes? Seems like I've heard of issues???

I'm OK at fab work and figured I would need new motor mounts. What about running the exhaust? Any help is much appreciated. By the way, if this works out without draining my bank account I am looking to put the 454 in my Jeep. (that will be another build way down the road:D)

you will need to swap in hydro boost brakes

the nv4500 for a dodge is different than a chevy.

you will need to swap in hydro boost brakes

the nv4500 for a dodge is different than a chevy.


Is there a certain year, make, model of brake hydro boost to use or only aftermarket?

So my only option for the Chevy nv4500 is an adapter plate?

That 3500 should already be Hydro boost as all GM 1 tons ran Hydro boost regardless of engine.

As far as your tranny sell the GM 4500 and buy a dodge 4500. That is about the easiest way to go. The input splines are different as well as the bell housing and tranny to housing bolt patterns. The output shaft splines are different also so a new Tcase will be required or atleast a new input gear on a tcase.

A dodge engine needs a dodge tranny and a chevy engine needs a chevy tranny as far as 4500s are concerned.

easiest way to go is get a 90-93 cummins with a getrag 5 spd and np205 as a unit.
no adapters required

Got some questions on a swap I'm looking at. I just picked up an '93 3500, 454, nv4500. The rig has 88,000 miles and in good shape. I also got dibs on a '90 Dodge 2500 with the 12V Cummins and 727 tranny. I want to swap the CTD into the Chevy, swap motor only and keep the 4500. Does anyone have any information on the swap for me? From what I searched I will need to pull the wiring harness and computer from the donor truck. Here is some of my questions:

1. Will the CTD bolt right up or will I need a diff. bell housing or adapter?

2. What about fuel? Can I clean out the gas tank? What about lines?

3. Any problems with brakes? Seems like I've heard of issues???

I'm OK at fab work and figured I would need new motor mounts. What about running the exhaust? Any help is much appreciated. By the way, if this works out without draining my bank account I am looking to put the 454 in my Jeep. (that will be another build way down the road:D)

Harness??? Computer??? :confused::confused:

a '90 CTD is a mechanical 12V engine.... there aint no computer to pull.

Cool, thanks fellas. The dodge I have dibs on is a '90.

I really want to do this swap if I can manage my funds. The Chevy is in nice shape and the Dodge has a good CTD with 188,000. I can get the Dodge for $3500. I figured I could sell the 60 rear, tf 727, and scrap the rest once I do the swap to re-coupe funds.

Part of my idea with this swap was to put the 454 in a wrangler with the built 60's I have. Maybe I could just keep the 454 and 4500 for the Jeep swap and just buy another Dodge 4500???? Ideas???

I think the easiest would be to swap in a Getrag 360 out of silmililar years dodges. Dont let others tell you bad things about the g360 just overfill it 1.5 qts and it will be fine.

I think these sites could help you out mating the trans you have to the cummins

http://www.nv4500.com/

http://www.high-impact.net/nv4500.htm

Also, checking around here might net some more info
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/cummins-conversions-shop-talk-tools-fabrication/

Oh and the case on the 727 is a 205

I think the easiest would be to swap in a Getrag 360 out of silmililar years dodges. Dont let others tell you bad things about the g360 just overfill it 1.5 qts and it will be fine.

I think these sites could help you out mating the trans you have to the cummins

http://www.nv4500.com/

http://www.high-impact.net/nv4500.htm

Also, checking around here might net some more info
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/cummins-conversions-shop-talk-tools-fabrication/

Oh and the case on the 727 is a 205

Very nice information. Thanks, it's what I need. I can't believe all the info. I've absorbed over the last couple of days. Hell, I didn't even have this deal fall into my lap untill this past week. I don't want to rush things but I can't help but be pumped for this swap. What kind of honest mpg numbers can I expect? Unloaded? What about with 30' gooseneck and 2 Jeeps?

Most of the swap seems straight forward. My biggest set-back is having to come up with another tranny. I'm leaning toward the 4500. I'm looking for one and trying to check prices. Once I pull the ctd from the donor truck should I look to re-build? I'm getting it from a reliable source that states it's running fine. 188k.

With my first gen dodge, On my last trip got 14.5 mpg pulling a about 8k, there was quite of bit of idle time on the trip to and it was cold out.

As far as rebuild, honestly its got plenty of life left. Mines has 265,000 on the ticker runs strong, starts easier (even in the cold) then newer trucks I have been around. I have seen a couple cummins with 300,000+ and still pretty reliable

Don't worry about a rebuild unless it has obvious problems. Instead, spend some of that money on a '91-'93 core support, grille and aftercooler.

Not rebuilding is good news on the old wallet.* The seller is a friend of mine that say's the motor runs great with no issues.* Now I need a damn Cummins 4500!!!

you can use your nv4500 if you use the p-30 adapter plate. You will then have to mix and match a clutch pressure plate from dodge and disc from chevy. as the input is smaller on the chevy. It will also put you motor on a tilt notsure of the angle but they used it on the 4bts in bread trucks so it must be OK. check out 4btswaps.com the are pretty helpful. Good luck I am swapping in a 91 6bt with a nv5600 into a 93 crew cab 4x4 dually as we speak not so bad so far.

you can use your nv4500 if you use the p-30 adapter plate. You will then have to mix and match a clutch pressure plate from dodge and disc from chevy. as the input is smaller on the chevy. It will also put you motor on a tilt notsure of the angle but they used it on the 4bts in bread trucks so it must be OK. check out 4btswaps.com the are pretty helpful. Good luck I am swapping in a 91 6bt with a nv5600 into a 93 crew cab 4x4 dually as we speak not so bad so far.


Ditto. The adapter out of a p30 "bread van" is a 4bt/6bt block to gm sm465/th400/nv4500

Check out 4btswaps.com

Ditto. The adapter out of a p30 "bread van" is a 4bt/6bt block to gm sm465/th400/nv4500

Check out 4btswaps.com

OK, thanks for the info. and I am saving these sites for future reference. Looks like my '93 NV4500 is still not going to work. Even with the bread van adapter. The main problem is that pre-'96 4500 don't have an input shaft that fits. Also, because the first gear ratio is different you can't swap a Dodge input shaft into it.

I am still on the lookout for a cost effective CTD NV4500. Or other tranny options.

you can use your nv4500 if you use the p-30 adapter plate. You will then have to mix and match a clutch pressure plate from dodge and disc from chevy. as the input is smaller on the chevy. It will also put you motor on a tilt notsure of the angle but they used it on the 4bts in bread trucks so it must be OK. check out 4btswaps.com the are pretty helpful. Good luck I am swapping in a 91 6bt with a nv5600 into a 93 crew cab 4x4 dually as we speak not so bad so far.

I saw your build tread. Looks like were doing the same thing...just your way ahead of me.:D My Chevy is a '93 crew cab 4x2 and the 6bt is from a '90 4x2. I think for simplicity I will search for a Dodge tranny, clutch, flywheel, and bellhousing. Good luck on your build, I will be checking it out. Any pics???

Another source of info is Cummins. They have a Tech hotline and a whole "repower" division. You can call and talk to the techs about what parts are available, etc. to repower a truck.

I saw your build tread. Looks like were doing the same thing...just your way ahead of me.:D My Chevy is a '93 crew cab 4x2 and the 6bt is from a '90 4x2. I think for simplicity I will search for a Dodge tranny, clutch, flywheel, and bellhousing. Good luck on your build, I will be checking it out. Any pics???

You would ba able to use your tranny with the p-30 adapter but you would have to mix and match clutch and pressure plate. The only reason I did not do that is cuz I have my truck hooked to a trailer 75% of the time or more. I am hopeing to get some pics soon but have not had much time to work on it lately. Hope to change that soon cuz I need the truck running I need more power than the 6.5 in the 94 dually puts out.

You would ba able to use your tranny with the p-30 adapter but you would have to mix and match clutch and pressure plate. The only reason I did not do that is cuz I have my truck hooked to a trailer 75% of the time or more. I am hopeing to get some pics soon but have not had much time to work on it lately. Hope to change that soon cuz I need the truck running I need more power than the 6.5 in the 94 dually puts out.

Does mix/mathing the clutch and pressure plate solve the input shaft issue?? How about reliability? Why did you decide aginst it because of towing 75%? I will be using mine for towing only.

You will have to get the pressure plate to fit the cummins 12 in clutch and then get the flywheel to fit the chevy input on the NV4500. I was told by a few guys that the input can break on these transmission but the clutch is also a little weaker than if you stay with the cummins set. I thought hard about doing it but then got a decent deal on a NV5600 Boy that is a large tranny. You really have to massage the floor boardsto get it in there:laughing: Thats the major reason I went with cummins stuff but also was a little concerned with towing as heavy as I do and as often.

Does mix/mathing the clutch and pressure plate solve the input shaft issue?? How about reliability? Why did you decide aginst it because of towing 75%? I will be using mine for towing only.

OK, that's what I figured. I would prefer to stay with the Dodge stuff for the same strength reasons.

Just came across a '95 1 ton, 4x4, with the CTD and 4500 in it. Guy says the motor was re-built 30,000mi. ago and the transmission was replaced new at the same time. He said the motor has a aftermarket cam with a newer model turbo set-up and a new fuel pump. I am going to go check it out a little better and see what's up with it. Anything I should be on the lookout for?

Also, I will only be using the parts I need for the motor/tranny swap. I'm thinking it should have 60's front and rear. Do you know what these 60's are worth? What about the t-case???

Thanks once again.

OK, went and checked out the above mentioned truck this evening. I really liked it. The guy said it has set for a couple of weeks so it seemed to roll over a good bit before starting up. (normal???) Once it fired up (after lots of smoke) it seemed to run awsome. Took it for a drive and it felt really strong and shifted smooth. Guy showed me receipts for a re-built nv4500 that was $1500 with a new t-case and the receipt for it showing $1100. Said it was a 241? The guy said the turbo was from an '01 and it was bigger? Obviously I'm new at this and just trying to find out as much info. as poss.. Another thing I liked was the duel friction Centerforce clutch that was put in new with the tranny.

Does anyone know if I will be able to use the 4wd tranny swapped into my dually 2wd? What will need to be done to get it to work? Can I pull the t-case and get a tail shaft housing from a 2wd 4500?

Putting a 12 valve in that truck is pretty straight forward, in the old P-30 van's Some came with turbo 400's others with SM465's. The great thing about the Cummins engine is they have put in everything from the crap trucks that doge builds, to all terrain forklifts, to fire pumps, to generators, escavators, cranes, and about every other kinds of heavy equipment.

The very cool thing that Cummins did was they made it so as that the engine has a removable bellhousing adapter, this allows you to swap it out to what ever kind you want. So all you need is a Cummins to Chevrolet adapter, a proper flywheel, and the right size pilot bearing. and it will bolt right up to your NV4500

The hard part of this swap is actually going to be building the engine mounts. Also you are going to want to put a few turns on your front suspension torsion arm key adjustment bolts to counter act the extra few hundred pounds the Cummins weighs.

I am doing this swap on my 72 Chevy C-30 it has a NV4500 out of a 95 C3500 Dually in it.

OK, I bought my donor vehicle. It's the above mentioned truck. A '95 CTD, 4x4, NV4500, np241, 4.10's. I think it has some kind of posi. rear-end because of the duel black marks I laid down on the pavement:D! I will check that out once I pull the diff. cover.

Now I have everything to start the build. Sorry if I go slow but I prolly won't start the build for another month. I still need to investigate the build and make sure I'm going in the right direction. For starters I need to pick up a 4x2 main shaft and tailhousing to switch the 4500 from 4x4 to 4x2. I will look to pick up the upgraded shaft to fix the 5th gear nut problem.

Once again thanks fellas for the info.....I wouldn't be this far without your help.:smokin:

This is what I'd do with the experience I've had doing my conversion so take it however ya want.
First off I'd sell the 4x4 nv4500/241 as combo and buy a 2wd 96+ GM nv4500
You'll get decent $$$$ for it and a 2wd GM nv4500 is usurally fairly reasonable. Then you will need a Cummins input,bearing and retainer. tHey will run you about $225 for Inland Truck Parts. That way you don't have to deal with fixing the 5th gear cause GM's didn't have that issue. This is what I did but had a 4x4 and ran a GM 32spline 205 behind it. Chainging the mainshaft/tailshaft I'm told can be tricky. I've had one apart once and with help it wasn't that big of deal.
For the motor I'd get some mounts and brackets from CrewCab5.9 on here or AutoWorld.com. Or build your own. I did and after 3 times we finally got it the way we wanted it.
The donor truck will have a D60/D80 if it's a 3500. They are worth $1250-$1500 but I have a set that hasn't moved at $1500 :(.
If you ahve other questions feel free to PM me or CrewCab59. He's done lots of these and I've only done 1 and it is a 67 K20.

This is what I'd do with the experience I've had doing my conversion so take it however ya want.
First off I'd sell the 4x4 nv4500/241 as combo and buy a 2wd 96+ GM nv4500
You'll get decent $$$$ for it and a 2wd GM nv4500 is usurally fairly reasonable. Then you will need a Cummins input,bearing and retainer. tHey will run you about $225 for Inland Truck Parts. That way you don't have to deal with fixing the 5th gear cause GM's didn't have that issue.

For what it's worth I found a good article on the 5th gear issue. They state the GM 4500 had the 5th gear issue with Duramax as well as any Cummins with the 4500.

http://quad4x4.com/NV4500%205th%20Gear%20Failures%20and%20Solutions.h tm

One bonus is my tranny was recently re-built. I will get ahold of the place that re-built it and ask if they fix the issue when they rebuild these trannys.

The D-Max never had an nv4500 behind it. Only the ZF6 and Ally. I have 2
D-Max's with ZF6's and they are a completely different animal.
I had a 97 Chevy 2500 with the nv4500 and in 150K I never had issue with it. Even towing 20,000lbs in never had a 5th gear issue. I did a ton of research to conclude how to build mine and from that research I found the GM trannys to be almost trouble free.
Since yours is already rebuilt maybe it would be best to convert it over to
2wd.


For what it's worth I found a good article on the 5th gear issue. They state the GM 4500 had the 5th gear issue with Duramax as well as any Cummins with the 4500.

http://quad4x4.com/NV4500%205th%20Gear%20Failures%20and%20Solutions.h tm

One bonus is my tranny was recently re-built. I will get ahold of the place that re-built it and ask if they fix the issue when they rebuild these trannys.

if you dont need the 454 for your jeep let me know im looking for a big block for my chevy. sounds like a badass build man. good luck

if you dont need the 454 for your jeep let me know im looking for a big block for my chevy. sounds like a badass build man. good luck


I will send you a PM. As far as the CTD swap, everything with the tranny issue keeps pointing me in the direction of a solid axle 4x4 conversion. I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew.