I'm lookin for some spare fine spline inners now that I'm running the Super Birfs.

What are some good sources (not TAP) and what should I expect to be paying?

Mustard,
I posted here and got a good set, called all my friends and got a few more. All fj 40 birf cruisers use the same inners, 68 and newer, the short side on 60's and 62's are also the same.

I have broken 6 total since late January, 4 were short sides, less torsional flex so they go sooner than long ones.

I am an hour or so from Moser. I called them and wasn't to optimistic they could make some chromemoly inners. The build from blanks so I am going to run a pair up there and see if they can.

The quoted me $295 a pair if they can. Who else would be interested in a set, maybe if we get the serious on board they will be more responsive. Think before you post that you are in, cause this needs to be somewhat indicative of real sales.

On a nother note I called All Pro and they are doing the mini truck inners, available soon. Does anyone know if the inner splines are the same as a Cruiser? I know the outers are, and that they are longer, so maybe they will consider building some if not to much retooling is needed.

I also heard that CV Unlimited has got inners that are stronger, but a call to them got me no additional info till George gets back this week.

Check ebay. About twice a month a set of drum birf's with attached fine spline inner axleshafts come up for auction and run about $40 for both birfs and inner axle shafts. Any drum brake cruiser 1968 and later can be a donor. The mini-truck stuff WILL NOT FIT. FJ60 short side are the same supposedly.

I have been scraping up a couple sets myself. Also, check classifieds in LA(recycler) a couple of axles for sale, get a complete axle for $100 and part it, chuck drum stuff, keep the inner axles and sell the housing and third. You ought to be able to make money and have a spare set of inners...

If anyon ewould be making them, I'd lay money that Sandy Cone would and could do it.

He's got the equipment to gun drill, hob and turn plus the years of experience to do so.

www.coneindustries.com

Mike,

Inner and outer splines on the toy truck stuff is the same.

Originally posted by wngrog
Mike,

Inner and outer splines on the toy truck stuff is the same.

I thought they were, so that surprises me that All Pro can't just knock off a shorter version of each. I am seeking a more permanent solution to my problem anyway.

I'd be in for a set of Moser inner axles for my FJ40. Let me know.

Mosers out. I don't have the patience for idiots. Dutchmans in, if I only had a set of inners in Portland right this minute. I gotta go pick up my spares and fire them off for them to look at.

At this point I am having a set made specifically for the Longfields. No outer circlip grove, and a mod to the inner one where they are snapping now. Cost is more but I apprecu=iate the value of customer service!

Stay tuned, I threatened to tell all of you about my experience.

Based on my experience, Mike, you will be very happy with Dutchman. They are very talanted and work to please their customers.

Kind of funny that Dutchman and Moser are both located in cities named Portland.

Not too funny that the cud chewing hoosiers have no sense to help a brother out.

So much for the Midwestern hospitality huh???

I sent off a sample set to Dutchman along with the inner race and a side gear so they could build me a set of moly axles. They will be here Tuesday after I agreed to pay the ticket for rushing these and getting them shipped on Monday back to me. I need them before next weekends Erocc comp.

I am pleased with their interest in making a good product, they are very helpful and easy to work with. They will be drawing (prints) the inners up for future orders and asked that I run them and report back before telling everyone to call them. Seems that since this is a custom axle, with mods I requested they want to be sure it is up to their standards.

I posted in the Longfield thread regarding this, and don't want to be too redundant, but the price with the Longfields should still be less than the birf eliminator kits, which aren't any stronger with out the very pricey CTM's.

They did tell me the moly would be 25% stronger than stock, that along with removing the stress riser at the clip groove where they have been breaking should net a major upgrade in strength.

More to come...............

I will keep you guys posted.

Pics of the Dutchman inners

I'll post the results of the extreme testing this weekend at Erocc's. Cost was $395/pr. These are larger diameter than stock and with the snap ring groove eliminated they will be much stronger than stock. The first pic shows the lip that stops the inner race from going to far onto the axle.

Mike -

Maybe its just late, but why do they have a groove in them at all?

Also - with the larger diameter do you have to put the axle in, and then add the oil seal?

Looks heck o' beefy!

Jim

Maybe the plan would be to buy these as the spares;)

Originally posted by TLCObsession
Mike -

Maybe its just late, but why do they have a groove in them at all?

Also - with the larger diameter do you have to put the axle in, and then add the oil seal?

Looks heck o' beefy!

Jim

I wasn't clear enough apparently on the groove not being needed. I spent a lot of time discussing the inner groove, and they had the samples, so i guess it was an oversight. It is beyond the point of any load so other than a wasted machine operation, it won't effect the strength.

Thy slid right in thru the seal. Gotta lube em up good to keep from tearing it, but no force of any kind was needed to slip them in.

One thing I have noticed the Longfields are a snug fit on all the inners I have changed. Might be due to the treating he does cause all the splines look good.

At first I was leary of the price, but I am very pleased with the quality and service, so I have chilled. After comparing to the redline or warn eliminator options, this is still cheaper, and as far as I can tell stronger. A D44 u-joint is weker than these birfs. So by the time you add a CTM to the set up, you are way over this price.

When I reassembled the axles/knuckles I changed the spindle bolts out for studs from All Pro. At the same time I left off the disk dust shield and the outer seal. Everything fits as expected, and these are parts I don't feel I need on my rig. Besides if I have to tear it down it will save some time.

Mike - as far as speed of teardown, while I am not a big birf breaker, somehow I am one of the guys who ends up fixin' for the others.

My method is as follows:

Pull the face off the hub and remove the snap ring.
Pull the bolts that hold the rubber and felt seals
Loosen the lower race/keeper on the bottom of the knuckle to the end of the stud.
Pull the steering arm.
Pull the entire knuckle/hub/rotor/caliper setup off - hang it
R&R the birf.

I can do it in about 30 minutes if the birf is not severely fragged, and the steering arm has been setup right (anti-seize or tef-gel on the cones). You can get to the birf in about 7 minutes from the time you get the jack out if you are using air.

If you haven't tried it, I suggest it as being the fastest way to swap out an inner axle (hope you won't have to!)

Jim

That's the same way Tin Bender and fatkid taught me, works great every time Krusty blows up another :D

Originally posted by SpaceGhost
When I reassembled the axles/knuckles I changed the spindle bolts out for studs from All Pro. At the same time I left off the disk dust shield and the outer seal.

I looked on All-Pro's site, and didn't see anything mentioned about this... My bolts barely held the torque when I did the latest round of axle seals, so the studs would be a MUCH better idea..

I think I'll keep the outer seal as I do occasionaly drive on the street...

Any info you can point me to would be appreciated!

TTT for info on the studs, AND...

I just got off the phone with CV Unlimited, and got some info on their HD inner axles.

They are 4340 Cro-mo, and the splines are rolled on...

Also, they do not have the groove for the clip where the shaft normally breaks (the clip that keeps the shaft from going too far into the birf) - figured you'd want to know this...

George is the cruiser guy there, but I talked to Franklin, who also knows about the shafts.

$260/pr I think?

Originally posted by Eskimo

Also, they do not have the groove for the clip where the shaft normally breaks (the clip that keeps the shaft from going too far into the birf) - figured you'd want to know this...


$260/pr I think?

That's ok, most of us are running Super Birfs, and Bobby says don't run that clip;)

Thanks for the info.

i thought that was the ONE clip that he wants you TO run?

Oh no.. another clip thread is starting.. aaargh!:D

What's the difference between splines being milled or rolled on? What's stronger?

AFAIK, rolled is stronger.

One thing I've considered is a set of inner shafts with NO grooves on them. First, the outermost groove for the circlip is not necessary. The groove that's ~1.25" in from the end of the innershaft seems to be the location where the breakages occur. Would a Martack-type operation at this point leave greater strength in the overall shaft and help increase the break strength by not providing a sharp shear point??

The split second it takes to do a Martack does no harm to the shaft - the duration is just too short. Perhaps a set of shafts with no grooves might be the next experiment.

Mike, I can't remember, where did your Dutchman shafts break at? same place all the others have? Think a set without ANY grooves would perform better??

Brian (woody), that groove that's ~1.25" from the end is the one that's not there in the CV Unlimited shaft.

if the groove isn't there, how do they prevent the iner shaft from sliding too far into the birf, or are the spline set to prevent it from wandering too much?

You took the words right outta my mouth! George (who is out this week) would know the answer to that... That was my curiousity as well.. rolling the splines on less distance makes sense though...

I'd like to see a stock shaft and the CVU shaft side-by side to compare!

Woody,
The Dutchmans broke in the same spot but there was no groove there. It's the smallest part of the axle shaft, if it's gonna break thats the spot. Remember we are dealing with 27 splines at that end and 30 at the diff.

This winter I WILL find a solution that retains the Cruiser housing, at least most of it. It's just a matter of spending the money! As good as the Longfields are, when we are snapping inner axles, it's still a problem. Thats the one I plan to solve even if I have to loose the superbirfs.

In the mean time, I talked with Bobby yesterday and he has made some more improvements to his Superbirfs. I will be running the newest revision's at the SuperCrawl, after I install them Friday!

I know you and I and Sean crawled thru and looked at shaft sizes and sleeve splines at Attica in August...We generally agreed that there was no additional room for a 30 spline outer on the shaft - the birf sleeve didn't have the space for it. I'll keep talking around here and see if any new ideas come up. (meeting Scott Douglas of Douglas Motorsports (CORR and Desert Racing) and hope to pick his brain on ideas, or borrow some from his race truck)

I heard that bobby is going to join up with Marlin. Has any one heard this? I heard they(Marlin) are working on a few axle options.
Option one: cruiser third member and axle housing,mosher inners with longfields. (It seems we all no how those inners held up for Mike)
Option two: cruiser third member with dana sixty tubes,custom shafts, and sixty outers
Option three: High pinion 9 inch with 60 tubes,shafts, outers.
Some food for thought. Tom

Looking at those options, the d60 outers is old news. All Pro will fix ya up for some big $$$$. How are we gonna get 35 spline 60 inners into the diff side gears, Arb, or whatever. Until this is resolved, moving the weak link of the inner axle to the diff side is nutz, and I will pass. The current sides are 30 spline, the only place I want and inner to break is at the outer end.

Did I miss something, and Woody the guy that was supposed to hook me up with ARB side gears, 35 spline, is making excuses now. No surprise, some talk the talk and wheel on the web!