Not sure if this is a repost or not:

FYI, Please respond!
http://www.southernjeeps.org/Tellico/TellicoLegalNotice.pdf

> Hello!
>
> A legal notice from the Cherokee Star newspaper is attached in '.pdf'
> format!

> Please forward to all your club members, and write some letters

> You will need Adobe's "Acrobat Reader" to view it.
>
> If "Acrobat Reader" is not already on your computer, you can download and
> install a FREE copy by clicking thislink:
>
> http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
>
> (Be sure to send this link to whoever you're sending the files to is case
> they need to download and install "Acrobat Reader" too.)
>
>
> regards,
>
> Brad Headrick
>
>

The only item I have a problem with is #4. All of the others are either already Tellico rules -or- make sense to me. Mayby item #3 is questionable, but I don't camp there anyway.

Originally posted by ARokCrwlr
The only item I have a problem with is #4. All of the others are either already Tellico rules -or- make sense to me. Mayby item #3 is questionable, but I don't camp there anyway.

I agree, most of these will help Tellico be a better place to wheel. I also have an issue with #4, guess I just like wheeling in the cold for some reason. The reason for #3 is because of downstream water issues.

why don't somebody with adobe post it so us computer illiterate folks ain't gotta download it

Most of those are already in effect, and have been for quite a while.
#4 is new to me, and I oppose that one.
#5 is strange as although lower 2 is tough on ATV's, upper 2, which is accessable from a 2WD trail, isn't that hard.

Windrock is looking better all the time. I understand there has to be some rules, but where will it end.
Will we go there and they will be running radar on Trail 1?
Will they give you a ticket if they see you not "locked in"?
On top of this they are "paving" the trails. Almost any vehicle can run Trail 5 to 4 all the way to Slickrock, in 2 wheel drive now (as long as you don't get caught :rolleyes: ). I guess that's good if you break on Slickrock.
.

http://web.utk.edu/~sbratto1/Jeep/tellicolegal.JPG

I like #3 and #7, but WTF is #4 about?

Close the trail system for 3 months? Come on!

As for #7, no 2wd vehicles, that would kill the "Rock-rail" traffic and that is a good thing. I have spent hours behind those damn things as they flung themselves at slickrock and guardrail and then end up just breaking:mad:

As for killing the camping in the park....sure, that's cool. Mostly the mess left by those campers is pretty bad from what I have seen.

I agree with all of them but number 4 as well...but that is mainly because our club has a "winter madness" run there in January of every year. OTH, closing the trail system for maintenance and to prevent tearing up the soil during the winter makes sense. Same thing happens at Beasley Knob and other places.

I'm all for eliminating the use of studded tires too.

I agree with you 350samurai, I think windrock has more to offer then Tellico anyway. The nice thing about windrock when I have been there is that it is not extremely crowded like Tellico, however I got a feeling in the next few years that is going to change drastically.

Originally posted by 350Samurai

On top of this they are "paving" the trails. Almost any vehicle can run Trail 5 to 4 all the way to Slickrock, in 2 wheel drive now (as long as you don't get caught :rolleyes: ). I guess that's good if you break on Slickrock.


From what I have been told, the gravel being placed on Trail #5 is temporary and is needed so that SFWDA can get thier duece and a halfs back into the trail system to do trail work. As soon as they are done the gravel will be removed. That is what I was told this past weekend while in Tellico anyway. As for the proposed rules. I would hate to see Tellico shut down for two months but if it helps keep Tellico open and keeps the powers that be happy then so be it. All the other rules seem more than fair to me.

Guys what's the big deal? The ONLY item that doesn't make sense is #4. Have you ever been there when some asshole was tearing down trail 1? In some areas there's a damn long drop. Every year someone goes over the edge. Item #7 is meant to keep those f'ing rail buggies off the trails which I'm all in favor of. It doesn't mean if you break you'll get ticketed. The rest is just common sense. Windrock is cool, but these proposals won't keep me from going to Tellico.

Originally posted by 350Samurai
On top of this they are "paving" the trails. Almost any vehicle can run Trail 5 to 4 all the way to Slickrock, in 2 wheel drive now

I was told trails 4 and 5 have been improved to get equipment in to build a bridge across Fains ford. Anyone else heard that??

Originally posted by 85TrailToy


I was told trails 4 and 5 have been improved to get equipment in to build a bridge across Fains ford. Anyone else heard that??

atleast that is what I have been told by rangers and sfwda people at work days

Yep windrock is looking better all the time alot more land less restrictions and even closer to motel rooms.

1) I don't like the no alcohol rule. prohibiting possesion and use does not keep the drunk assholes away. Think of the last rock concert you went to where alcohol was prohibited. How many people were hammered there.

note to DRM in advance. I don't give a crap what you think about my opinion.

2) can't comment. haven't driven on it.

3) 100 yards is along way to camp from water. 100 feet seems alot more reasonable

4) again, I haven't been there, but it sounds like the start of making this seasonal, then shortening the season until its only "dry" and then saying later it is never dry enough and its now closed.

5) I don't like the no ATV or no motorcyle rules. If they fit, allow them.

6) same thing, just flip it around. if a 4x4 fits, then allow them.

7) This one is BS. It is elitist. And, alot of 2x4 rigs will spank most of the 4x4s.

Originally posted by ARokCrwlr
Item #7 is meant to keep those f'ing rail buggies off the trails which I'm all in favor of


Nice attitude. what do you think the rail buggy owners think of 4x4s, and then what about the bikes and the quads.

I'm opposed to these rules like #7 because it pits "US" against "US"

I'd rather see "US" fighting them on the issues not infighting.

So the sand buggy association is gonna sue the forest service and the jeep and 4x4 association will file an interveing suit?

Seems better to have all of us on the same side fighting for the same reasons.

Access for all.

Also, since when has OHV meant 4x4 required by law?

So, if you bust a rear output shaft and limp out in 2 wheel front will you get ticketed?

I say the trail and the damage incurred dictates what level of equipment is required.

Dan-H
1- alcohol is already not suppose to be there, guess this means they will actually enforce it now
2- trail 1 speed limit needs to be there
4- I would like it stay open year around as well
5- its not a matter if they fit or not. The problem is they DON'T do the intended trail because its too rough and they can't. So instead they cut there own trails off to the sides creating ghost trails and errosion problems. They have tried to combat this by driving t-post every foot to block off these side trails but the atv's just knock them down and show no respect for the signs.
6- trail 10 is really long with no obstacles except some bumps in the rode, more of a higher speed trail for atvs and bikes, there is no reason to have a full size 4wd vehicle on that trail. If you want to ride a trail like that stay on trail 1.
7- Not sure if I agree with this or not, the only reasoning I can see is because 2wd's take alot more wheel spin maybe aiding to the errosion problems

Overall I don't think it is bad at all (with the exception of #4)

I was just there last month and I cannot believe the side trails cut into the mountain on lower 2 from the quads! The fence posts pounded into the ground did nothing but make them turn and make another trail. I dont mind the quads around (kinda entertaining sometimes) but I sure wish they would stick to the trails a little more. I'm not sure if more rules will fix a problem like this just because I dont know if there is a way to police it. How do you catch a guy on a quad in that area?
Dave (If we werent so Damn entertaining maybe they wouldnt be there trying to watch eh!)

Most of these rules make sense to me but I do not like the idea of rules that entice "pitting us against us" and also #4 smacks of the strategy of sneaking in a little bit of closure with the goal of longer closures and finally complete closure. I have wheeled there after a light snowmelt and the trails were really torn up that day, so maybe a "rest" would help the terrain; I don't know.

And how DO you police ATVs tearing up the trails? If they're busting posts now and ignoring them what's a new rule going to change? The same goes for #1. Alcohol is already illegal. Is it going to be double-illegal now? :rolleyes:

What's this about Fain's Ford? Some can't climb a little ledge so they're going to build a bridge?!? :mad:

#4 is RETARDED and #7 will help with erosion, but what if your broke or you need to turn. I've run welded front/rear up there and only when i get to an obsticle do i get out and even lock the hubs.

Originally posted by GJarrett

What's this about Fain's Ford? Some can't climb a little ledge so they're going to build a bridge?!? :mad:

Its a little more then that. Seeing as there is trout hatchery downstream, people who want tellico closed will continue to point at water quality issues to try to win. The bridge is being built to help with water issues. Water quality is one of the main things that is pinned against 4-wheelers in Tellico, so we are just trying to help fix the problems and give them less ammo.

I am so feed up with tellico b/call the Ranger bull shit and dumb asses with half built trucks with 31s open front and back clogging everything up.

I am happy just to stay up at winrock. Winrock will become a better area then Tellico ever was as we develop more trails and better organization.:smokin:

:flipoff2: I know that trail 5 was closed this weekend as it was a work day...the whole reason with the work on the trails and the closing of stream crossings is due to the trout stream below the area. I just got back from Tellico and have to say. that after being there in the past, losing the tough crossings takes away from the wheelin', but if it keeps the area open...then we need to work for that goal. Where's windrock?

The majority of the rules make sense to me because they are all ready in place.However, kicking the "2wd vehicles" like rails out,atv's, motor cylcles and "studded tire" vehicles out are only poor means to and end( although the "studded tire" vehicles are certainly pushing what is acceptable particulary when they drive a lot in 2WD)..In the end how far will this go? I mean think about it. How long before hybrid/cab trucks (define cab truck/hybrid for starters) are banned(there was some support for this a while back) or no vehicles with tires bigger than 38 or 36 inch tires are allowed in the area.Some of you know about Hummerland in Dayton. A group of guys with monster cab trucks got the priviledge to ride and tried to get up some of the climbs in 2WD digging huge holes..The landowner immediately bans ALL CAB TRUCKS AND HYBRID"S FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!...Does this truly solve the problem.? I don't think so.Certainly it keeps the ones who exercised poor judgement from coming back...But, anyone with a truck with a few fenders and a bed or full bodied jeep on a truck frame with a truck drivetrain and built motor can go there(hummerland) with the same set-up ..Unfortunately the problem is not the vehicle it is the SENSLESS idiots behind the wheel who fail to relaize either they don't belong on a certain trail , those who fail to realize what the affects of an 8000 grand attack on a ledge in 2wd is going to do the trail,or what creating "outlaw trails" is going to do. If people fail to respect the rules like no alcohol or staying on designated areas then the Tellico will eventually become a footnote and be mentioned as "one of those places we USED to wheel." To many people are not responsible or otherwise to stupid to understand that they are helping destroy a place that they HAVE to ride right now. People who enjoy in these recreational activities whether it is an ATV, jeep, horse or whatever need to exercise better judgement....is practical to expect this from the "crowd" that uses Tellico.Certainly it is practical to expect it.. Is it likely to happen..doubtful as there will always be those who don;t follow the rules of the given system(forest service)....lets just hope that 'greater masses of responsible users" will overshadow the abusers and that this does not turn into the "beginning of the end"..

Truth be told the problem at Tellico is not a lack of rules, it's a lack of inforcement or rather ability to enforce. The rangers simply don't have the ability to get back into the trail system and police the crap that goes on. If they could just camp out on Slickrock and Lower #2 in plain clothes a weekend or two a month then alot of the problems would start to improve. The rangers just recently obtained thier first ATV a while back. They have often had to rely on Crawford and his "Rock Hound" to get them back into the trails when they HAD to get there. As for building bridges to improve water quailty. That's like putting a band aid on a cut that needs stitches. The silting problems down stream isn't caused by the vehicles being in the streams, it's caused by run-off from the trails. Cutting down on rail buggies and ATV's cutting "ghost trails" would definitely help that problem. The biggest thing we could all do to help is to call boneheads out when they do boneheaded things. When ever you see an ATVer ripping through the woods or some redneck chucking his beer can on the ground call him on it. If you want to keep areas like this open then you have to get involved. Saying, "well I'll just stay at Windrock" isn't solving anything. In ten years when Tellico is closed and all the trash comes to Windrock then where will you go? Be responsible, hold others responsible and quit giving the powers that be excuses to come down on four wheelers. It's just that simple.

After just being down there over the 4th, I don't have any problems with the rules. The camping one kinda sucks, but maybe it will keep that area cleaner.

The closed for a couple of months rule is similar to what they have at a local park up here. They close it during the big runoff to keep from extra silt being eroded away during that time. I'm not really fond of it, but it is explainable and therefore I find it acceptable.

We saw a couple of rails going up slick rock. once they were on the rock the didn't rip it up much, but it took a lot for them to get through the bottom section. I could only imagine what they would do on lower 2.

Ok it's been said by others many times. All but a couple of these items are already park rules. Apparently the ranger in Tellico is about to retire and he has always been pro multi use and pro SFWDA. The feeling from my Southern officer buds is that the ranger is trying to get some things in writing before he retires that will actually help the 4wheelers.


Originally posted by Dan-H

5) I don't like the no ATV or no motorcyle rules. If they fit, allow them.

6) same thing, just flip it around. if a 4x4 fits, then allow them.

7) This one is BS. It is elitist. And, alot of 2x4 rigs will spank most of the 4x4s.




Nice attitude. what do you think the rail buggy owners think of 4x4s, and then what about the bikes and the quads.

I'm opposed to these rules like #7 because it pits "US" against "US"

I'd rather see "US" fighting them on the issues not infighting.

So the sand buggy association is gonna sue the forest service and the jeep and 4x4 association will file an interveing suit?

Seems better to have all of us on the same side fighting for the same reasons.

Access for all.

Also, since when has OHV meant 4x4 required by law?

So, if you bust a rear output shaft and limp out in 2 wheel front will you get ticketed?

I say the trail and the damage incurred dictates what level of equipment is required.

As far as the ATV's and motorcycles, trails exist that are designated only for them. BUT, they blaze their own trails and tear up the place. So why should we be dragged down by their irresponsible actions? There has been countless attempts to prevent trail blazing that haven't worked. So I say F em until they can act responsible. The same goes for the no wheeling piece-o-shiat rails. They tear the place up because they are ill equipped to handle the terrain. I'm all for multi-use, but there comes a point where you have to cut the cord or else get dragged down with them.

You said it-you've never been there. Those of us who have see these items as positive for keeping the place open (except for item #4).

I have to admit, I was venting earlier. There has to be rules and they have to be followed. I am a member of SFWDA and carry a trashbag in my truck to pick up everyone elses garbage. There was a kid (8 or 9 years old) on lower 2 during the 4th of July weekend that was picking up garbage, I told him what a good job he was doing and gave him 5 bucks.
It's just so frustrating when you try to do all you can and it seems like no one else gives a shit.
I was on Slickrock the 4th of July weekend and it looked like a band of gypsies had been living there for a month.
I just had to get that off my chest.
Maybe if they jacked the price of riding up to $10/day and $50/yr it would keep some of the riff-raff out. I would gladly pay that.

Originally posted by 350Samurai
I have to admit, I was venting earlier. There has to be rules and they have to be followed. I am a member of SFWDA and carry a trashbag in my truck to pick up everyone elses garbage. There was a kid (8 or 9 years old) on lower 2 during the 4th of July weekend that was picking up garbage, I told him what a good job he was doing and gave him 5 bucks.
It's just so frustrating when you try to do all you can and it seems like no one else gives a shit.
I was on Slickrock the 4th of July weekend and it looked like a band of gypsies had been living there for a month.
I just had to get that off my chest.
Maybe if they jacked the price of riding up to $10/day and $50/yr it would keep some of the riff-raff out. I would gladly pay that.

I seen your sammy up there on the 4th man that thing is bad ass. We were the group camping just inside of tenn. with the 2 full width yj's on 38's and the sa jimmy and sa toys. I would have loved to seen that beast go up slickrock. By the way what is the actual wheel base on that thing.

I was up helping SFWDA work on trail 5 this past weekend. They have to take the obstacles out so the 2 1/2 ton and the 5 Ton can get through. We also built some water breaks on trail 5. The rangers there are a great group of guys. They don't have a problem at all with Jeeps and such. Their biggest problem is with the 4 wheelers getting off the trail. That induces erosion and that will get the place shut down. As far as closing trail 2 and 9 to 4 wheelers and dirt bikes, that is already done.:flipoff2: The ranger said that they would be handing out tickets. I think he said they would be $150. I don't have a problem with the 4 wheelers as long as the behave themselves. I've rambled enough and my spelling sucks this morning. I suggest writing to the address listed in this forum and letting them know exactly what you think.

I thought they were going to be putting up the bridges a few years ago? They group we were with rides there every year for a few weeks at a time, it was my first and only trip due to work so far. Around here in southwest va. no place to really ride without getting a ticket. Where is this windrock place located at?

Originally posted by odee
Where is this windrock place located at?

Near Oak Ridge, TN. I believe the town is called Oliver Springs.

Originally posted by Wes in TN


Near Oak Ridge, TN. I believe the town is called Oliver Springs.

Bingo.

By the way what is the actual wheel base on that thing.

115"

Where is this windrock place located at?

www.coalcreekmining.com

www.windrockatv.com

www.rattlerock.com

Rails and ATV's are causing the most damage up there. Them freaking idiots in the rails with bolted tires suck. Glad to see them prohibited. "Tread Lightly" is a joke to them. They have been tearing the hell out of Beasley Knob for a long time. They went through an area cutting tress as they went where no trail had EVER been. We know it was them from all the busted CV joints and bolt marks on the rocks.
The ATV's cause a problem because they do not stay on the trail. If they get caught behind a groop of trucks they don't think twice of running between trees to get through.
Trail 9 at slick rock is just plain impassable by ATV on the trail unless you put it on your back and carry it. Anybody that has been there will tell you how much off trail traffic there is from ATV's. The whole area to the left has had all the ground cover stripped from them running thought there to by pass the obstical.
Lower 2 is the same way. It's not passable on the trail for them.
Now upper 2 is no problem and I don't have a problem with the ATV's there. With the exception of a few places there is plenty of room for ATV's to pass trucks.
As for closing in the winter.....This has been a long time coming. Beasley Knob (30 minutes south of Murphy) has been clossed in the winter for the past few years. THe reason for it is the freeze thaw cycles. Most of the time it only freeze for a few days and then gets above freezing in the area. Well anybody that has seen the dirt in the yard pop up when the water freezes will understand what is happening every few day's. Get trucks running through there non stop and it becomes a BIG errosion problem. If it would freeze and stay that way for a couple months then no big deal but it doesn't.
I hate it but those local have seen it coming. My club runs a "Winter madness" Run every January there. I'll miss that but if that's what it takes to keep the place then that's what it takes.
The rest of the stuff like the booze. That's been on the books. I think the point was to get it out to the public. Enforcing it is near impossible unless they search you on the way it and that seems like a favorite pass time of the Rangers on the TN side. The only time I have ever seen the Murphy Rangers is when they are pealing some idiot off trail one that has rolled because they were going to fast. Last year at Dixie Run I am aware of 3 rolls on trail 1. For those that have never been..Trail 1 is a Gravel road that you could run in a Corrolla.