Anyone have any experience with Wells or Wells-Index mills? I found one for $900 OBO locally.. 9"x42" with power crossfeed.

Good? Bad? Parts interchange with other more common (Bridgeport?) mills?

http://www.wellsindex.com/cnc-milling-machines.html

Parts are available it appears. I'm going to go look at it this weekend to check condition.

I have a Wells-Index CNC mill (early 1980's vintage). They are a really well built machine and their service people seem to be really great. They even respond to emails, go figure! Your machine is much older than mine, however. It is not a Bridgeport copy like the chinese ones out there. It was made in Michigan.

Andy

Thanks for the info RealSquash.

I'm going to go look at it in a few hours. What do I need watch out for as far as checking to see if its worn out?

The seller says it was sitting in a wharehouse for 3-4 years but it was running and being used just before he bought it. His guess is that it is a late 50's - early 60's model.

I have two, both CNC, one '81 and one '79. Paid $1500 for the '81 in running condition with a bunch of toolholders; the '79 was partially disassembled, but complete, and free. Seem to be solid machines, both of mine, the spindle snouts where the toolholders pilot in, are chunked, but there's enough taper left to still hold onto the holder pretty well. Seem to be decent machines, but the NC controls leave some to be desired, and are pretty fragile. A manual machine wouldn't have any of the issues I've had to fix on mine.

I am not an authority here, but the only negative thing I've read is that the quill "gear" wears funny on some of them. Take it with a grain of salt, but I would check. Look for scraping marks on the ways to judge the wear condition. As long as nothing is truly trashed on it you can probably make it into a nice machine for not too much $. Bring some Naval Jelly with, available at Lowes, to rub onto and remove some rust from the ways if need be. Don't scotchbrite or steel wool them if you can avoid it.

Andy

I have two, both CNC, one '81 and one '79. Paid $1500 for the '81 in running condition with a bunch of toolholders; the '79 was partially disassembled, but complete, and free. Seem to be solid machines, both of mine, the spindle snouts where the toolholders pilot in, are chunked, but there's enough taper left to still hold onto the holder pretty well. Seem to be decent machines, but the NC controls leave some to be desired, and are pretty fragile. A manual machine wouldn't have any of the issues I've had to fix on mine.

I just retro'd my 810, need any spare parts? LOL.

Andy

I just retro'd my 810, need any spare parts? LOL.

Both of mine are 700's, I dunno what interchanges, but I'd take anything that does. That's actually why I took the free '79, figured that worst-case, there were more usable spare parts in it to keep my '81 running, than what it was going to cost me to move it here. :laughing:

Is yours a stepper or servo setup?

Andy

Check to see what taper the spindle has. On a mill that old, I'm guessing B&S9 or maybe B&S7, or possibly a Morse taper. Odds are against it having R8. You can get tooling for the B&S and Morse tapers, new or used. It just takes a little more looking. If it had any other taper that I haven't mentioned yet, you might want to check on tooling availability.

The basic wear check on an old mill is pretty simple. Start with the table centered. Lock the table and turn the handles and see how much play there is in the lead screw in the middle. Next, unlock the table and run it all the way to one end. Did it get hard to run near the end? If so, you have wear in the ways in the middle and gibs have been adjusted to take up the wear - but there is no wear at then ends so it gets tight. This pretty common. Also repeat the test with locking the table and seeing how much the handle moves. Then go to the other end and do it all again. There won't be much wear at the ends.

The Y axis normally doesn't wear too bad, but go ahead and check it out the same way.

If at all possible, run the head through all it's speeds and listen for odd noises. If you can't run it, at least take the belt off and spin the spindle by hand. It should be perfectly smooth and take very little effort.

How much wear is acceptable? That's up to you. Notice that I haven't said any numbers, because what would be unacceptable to one person might be fine for the use of another. If this is your first mill and you're going to put it in your garage and make slots and drill bolt patterns and maybe use a boring head once in a while - you can tolerate a lot of wear. Unless the table does a Hula dance when you are milling or binds really bad not far from the middle, you are probably OK. If there's wear on the lead screw and nut, you just need to learn how to compensate. You can also add a DRO at some point, which makes it really easy compensate for worn screws and nuts.

Don't forget to check what voltage the motor takes. It's probably 3 phase and may take 220 or 440 volts. You can deal with any of that, but 220 3 phase is going to be easier than 440 3 phase because you won't need a transformer.

Nutter

Thanks for all the info guys.

I went and looked at it, and besides being pretty dirty, everything looks good as far as I could tell. It needs a belt for the power feed on the quill and the crank handle for the knee height adjustment needs repair/replacement.

I'm going to pick it up tomorrow afternoon. He agreed to $800.

Forgot to add its actually an Index, not a Wells-Index.

Looks familiar. :flipoff2:

Index 555 w/power feeds. My spindle was reground to R8.

Nothing interchangeable with Bridgeport, but lots of nice features on these machines.

EDIT: That is earlier than a model 555, I forget which one... but the power Z feed was
changed with later years.

EDIT, Take two: Model 55
http://www.lathes.co.uk/index/page4.html

Is yours a stepper or servo setup?


Servo.

Looks familiar. :flipoff2:

Index 555 w/power feeds. My spindle was reground to R8.

Nothing interchangeable with Bridgeport, but lots of nice features on these machines.

EDIT: That is earlier than a model 555, I forget which one... but the power Z feed was
changed with later years.

EDIT, Take two: Model 55
http://www.lathes.co.uk/index/page4.html

Thanks for the link.. Thats it for sure. I'll post up some more pics when I get it home and cleaned up.

I picked up the mill yesterday evening and got it unloaded this afternoon. Unloading was interesting, and thankfully uneventful. My brother came over and helped out a bit. We pulled the table off first to lose some weight and make it less awkward/tipsy.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/May42008013.jpg

Next we pulled the big 3 phase motor off the top to lose some more weight and get the COG a little lower. My engine hoist wont go high enough to lift the mill from the ground, so we had to put the hoist on the trailer, lift it, then slowly roll it to the back and down the dovetail so it could be lowered to the ground. I rigged a chain hoist to the front of the trailer and a chain to the top/rear of the engine hoist. We worked it back nice and slow till it could be lowered to the ground. It went much smoother than I thought it would. :D

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/May42008019.jpg

My brother helping out.. couldnt do it without him

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/May42008020.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/May42008022.jpg

Got rid of the old wooden cabinet "workbench".. It took up a lot of room for what it did, and was starting to sag in the middle pretty bad. With it gone there is plenty of room for the mill and my big toolbox will go to the left of it.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/May42008011.jpg

Got the mill put into its new home.. Time to start cleaning, repairing,wiring and buying tooling. :D

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/May42008023.jpg

Broken Knee height adjust crank

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/May42008024.jpg

Data plates

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/May42008025.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/May42008026.jpg

Knee/table surface

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/May42008017.jpg

Well you have the knee off ok, you should lap those ways. An old Index...stout SOB.

Well you have the knee off ok, you should lap those ways. An old Index...stout SOB.

What is the proper way to lap them? What type of lapping compound?

What is the proper way to lap them? What type of lapping compound?

Hand scrapping is fun! :laughing:

There is a guy who advertises in the back of Home Shop Machinist a book called "restoring old machines" About $90. Yep, it is considered the Bible of restoring old machinery.

I had thought there was some magic to hand scrapping... but turns out it is 99% labor and callouses, 1% skill. Just using a blue dye to discover high and low spots on the ways. Scrap high spots and keep testing and going.

Check out the forums over on Practical Machinist, as some 'old farts' with knowledge hang out over there and can give you some tips on hand scrapping. (OK, I'll fess up.... after cleaning up my mill, I just went to work on it. It really needs to be pulled apart, cleaned up, painted, and greased.... but all I do is keep it greased (actually four different oils are used, greased being a generic term).

Tom

I've had that book forever. It's sitting on the book shelf next to the computer. It's called 'Machine Tool Reconditioning' by Connelly. I read it once, about 15 years ago. I've never tried any of it. The thing that stops me is the machine alignment. Sure, you can scrape a surface flat. How do you know it's square to the rest of the machine? It's not impossible, but you'll want some nice hand scraped cast iron squares, parallels, straight edges and a precision level to help figure it out. It would suck to scrape in your ways only to find they sloped one way or the other.

My advice is to use it the way it is unless you find out it's not good enough.

Hand scrapping is fun! :laughing:

There is a guy who advertises in the back of Home Shop Machinist a book called "restoring old machines" About $90. Yep, it is considered the Bible of restoring old machinery.

I had thought there was some magic to hand scrapping... but turns out it is 99% labor and callouses, 1% skill. Just using a blue dye to discover high and low spots on the ways. Scrap high spots and keep testing and going.

Check out the forums over on Practical Machinist, as some 'old farts' with knowledge hang out over there and can give you some tips on hand scrapping. (OK, I'll fess up.... after cleaning up my mill, I just went to work on it. It really needs to be pulled apart, cleaned up, painted, and greased.... but all I do is keep it greased (actually four different oils are used, greased being a generic term).

Tom

I've had that book forever. It's sitting on the book shelf next to the computer. It's called 'Machine Tool Reconditioning' by Connelly. I read it once, about 15 years ago. I've never tried any of it. The thing that stops me is the machine alignment. Sure, you can scrape a surface flat. How do you know it's square to the rest of the machine? It's not impossible, but you'll want some nice hand scraped cast iron squares, parallels, straight edges and a precision level to help figure it out. It would suck to scrape in your ways only to find they sloped one way or the other.

My advice is to use it the way it is unless you find out it's not good enough.

Thanks for the info.. I'll probably just clean it up at reassemble at this point, make sure everything is working good. I had heard of scraping before, but never knew exactly what was involved. I did order Connelly's book though, should be a good read.

I Just got off the phone with Wells Index. My Super 55 mill was originally shipped to Rex Supply here in Houston in February 1956 and came from the factory with the power quill and table feed.

I ordered a manual and parts diagram for $40. They say all parts are available except for large castings. Going to start cleaning it up today.. I dont think I'm going to paint it at this point, I like the old used and abused look :D

I agree with the old used and abuse look. I don't repaint my equipment either. I think just knowing everything is in great shape internally and dependable and accurate is important to me.

When I see a machine repainted and rebuilt for sale I wonder if it just got a good masking job to boost the sale...

Anyway I like the vintage look in my shop and I'm not afraid of adding my own use scares either...

JOSH

Got the mill cleaned up today.. it looks a lot better. I'll put the table, motor and pulleys back on tomorrow. The orange paint has to go, it looks like shit.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/IndexMillclean4.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/IndexMillclean005.jpg

I did manage to find one problem while I was cleaning. There is a bronze spanner nut that threads into the bottom of the quill. It was backed out of the quill a little bit.. (I took the pic after I screwed it out some more).

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/IndexMillclean001.jpg

I'm guessing its purpose is to preload/tighten the spindle bearings? I'll find out for sure when I get that manual from Index. Anyways, the spanner pin holes are trashed and the threads nearest the bottom look galled and chewed up. The quill threads look fine though.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/IndexMillclean002.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/azzy2000/Index%20milling%20machine/IndexMillclean003.jpg