Argon cylinder fill/test questions

[HandBuilt]

A buddy of mine bought out a fab. shop that went belly up. He got all the gear, including a few cylinders. He gave me a 300 cu ft UN 1956 (CO2 or Argon with a 580 conn.). It's got a BOC stamp in the collar, and it's painted blue. I don't know if they owned it outright or it was leased, there is no paperwork.

What can I do with this thing? I would really like to use it. Can I just turn it in at the BOC fill station and exchange it? I know nothing about the cylinder exhange system. I know that if you own a cylinder you can exchange it, but this may well be a leased cylinder. Will they pickup on it?

I don't want to do anything illegal, but I came into ownership if this thing legitimately and I would like to see if I can get it filled or exchanged.

[HalfFastFord]

Just go into a gas store and tell them you're exchanging the bottle and paying cash for it. they generally don't ask questions, they just swap it out and then you pay them.

[HaroldD]

From what I've seen around here, owner cylinders have a smooth neck up by the valve. Leased cylinders have a name cast into them there. There will always be a sticker with the name of who filled the tank, but the cast name is the dealbreaker.

I've gotten a "finders fee" for returning a leased cylinder to it's rightful owner (gas shop).

[mondtster]

That's a question I've often wondered about myself. I have a leased cylinder and the shop I have it through has an account set up in my name and they ask who it is for when I exchange it.

If I were in your shoes however I think I would obtain a bill of sale from your buddy that you bought it from (just in case the shop starts giving you trouble) and take it in and ask to exchange it.

EDIT: Harold, around here it appears that some shops must not care about having their name on the ring like you mentioned. My cylinders always have had the shop's name on them, but my buddy owns his cylinder outright and the shop he visits just exchanged him last time rather than filling his personal cylinder. I don't recall if his has a name on the cylinder or not.

[TB76Bronco]

When I was in California one place I got refills from would give me cylinders with there name on the ring and the other would give me only smooth ring cylinders. When I tried to get refills the smooth ring place would not take the ones from the other place.

I've take the same cylinders to other places with no problem on the refill.

[Todd W]

Just take it in and try to swap they will give you the run down. That is not that old... the one I swapped recently was 1911 (I believe I posted date eslewhere but it was near 1900!)

-Todd

[HandBuilt]

Just take it in and try to swap they will give you the run down. That is not that old... the one I swapped recently was 1911 (I believe I posted date eslewhere but it was near 1900!)

-Todd

UN 1956 is the United Nations number for identification of dangerous goods... It just identifies the contents. I dunno what the DOM is, but the last hydro test was 11/96.

1900s, it's amazing some cylinders have been around that long!

Update, apparently there are no 300 cu ft cyls that are customer owned in this area. Therefore, without a lease account it would be impossible for me to get it exchanged.

[PTSchram]

UN 1956 is the United Nations number for identification of dangerous goods...

Not exactly. A UN 1956 is a compressed gas, N.O.S. (not otherwise specified). In this case, it indicates an inert gas, otherwise, it would listed as a flammable or combustible compressed gas (N.O.S.). These designations are by their very nature, generic and nonspecific.

You guys make this way too hard. Carry the damned tank into the gas shop (or, rather put it on the dock), walk in, explain the situation to them and see what they say. So far, I have had absolutely no problems getting tanks filled regardless of how I came to have them-although I did come by them through honorable means.

[HandBuilt]

Not exactly. A UN 1956 is a compressed gas, N.O.S. (not otherwise specified). In this case, it indicates an inert gas, otherwise, it would listed as a flammable or combustible compressed gas (N.O.S.). These designations are by their very nature, generic and nonspecific.

You guys make this way too hard. Carry the damned tank into the gas shop (or, rather put it on the dock), walk in, explain the situation to them and see what they say. So far, I have had absolutely no problems getting tanks filled regardless of how I came to have them-although I did come by them through honorable means.

Honorable? I rescued it :flipoff2:

That's the plan PT, hope it works out. I really don't care about buying another cyl, but they have already told me that they do not generally sell big cylinders. I don't want a contract, I want to buy a cyl outright and exchange it when it's empty.

[PTSchram]

I didn't mean to cast aspersions upon anyone's intentions. I would only expect the most honorable of intentions from a Pirate to begin with :flipoff2:

I have too been told the most dire of stories of having tanks filled, however, it just has not been my experience, even when the provenance of the tanks in question was not as clear as I would have liked (anyone want some really nice, almost new nitrous oxide tanks?).

I have taken tanks from one company into another and explained my reasoning for not wanting to do business with the former vendor. Curiously, the guys at the second shop all had quit the former for the same reason I didn't want to do business with them. Some of my tanks were bought for scrap weight from a scrap yard-I paid the hydro fee and was good to go. Some of them were scrapped out by a former employer, paid the hydro fee and was good to go.

One thing I have run into that inadvertently worked in my favor. I do not use my cutting torch, nor my welder often. As a result, if I open an account with a gas supplier, they usually purge me from theit computer before I need to refill. I am now on a cash account and to be honest, I think I could carry a paper bag in and they would exchange it for a full tank! :grinpimp:

Cheers,
PT

[Todd W]

UN 1956 is the United Nations number for identification of dangerous goods... It just identifies the contents. I dunno what the DOM is, but the last hydro test was 11/96.

1900s, it's amazing some cylinders have been around that long!

Update, apparently there are no 300 cu ft cyls that are customer owned in this area. Therefore, without a lease account it would be impossible for me to get it exchanged.

That's what I get for skim reading :emb2:

[StinkBug]

I was a little curious about this too. I have bought several cylinders from my local shop and they are all smooth top, and I exchange them regularly. When I bought my TIG recently it came with a 200cu ft tank with "customer owned" cast into the top. Obviously I'm not worried about any issues with this tank, but I'm kinda curious to see if they exchange, or refil it when I bring it in. I guess I'll find out fairly soon as it only came with about 500psi in it.

[adampfisters]

I have always exchanged my cylinders (carbon dioxide, oxygen, 75/25, acetalyne (sp?) all owned and exchanged every time, never filled) I do get a charge for testing or what not but I assume everyone does and it is some sort of pro-rated deal. The gas shops around me do not fill the larger bottles if they are owned by them and leased out. Don't know the reasoning but all of them are like this 'that I know of'.

[Wyoming9]

It all comes down to who you deal with.

As far as who does what if your welding dealer fills on site it is no problem. your tank is out of date for hydro testing.

Most places in my area no longer sell the large cylinders out right. i just tell them i had it sitting in the shop not using it. But being on a first name basis with all the local welding dealers doesn`t hurt.

Just thinking about it I have a big Argon Cylinder sitting in the corner for at least 10 years, I kinds forgot till now.

[jmcbroom]

This may be a bit off-topic, but since there is talk of cylinders going on...

My grandfather passed away a month ago. Two of the items I'm interested in is his welder (Licoln 225 amp buzz box) and an oxy/act setup.

I looked at his tanks and they had 'Airgas' ETCHED into the side of them up near the neck. Does that mean the tanks are leased? What would a gas company (other than Airgas) do if I took those tanks in to have them exchanged?

[Wyoming9]

Before computers cylinder lease records were all done by hand. If your grandfather had these for a good while.

Most places have really know idea what happened to a 1/3 of there cylinders.

You should treat them as your Customer owned cylinders.

Weather the gas supplier will swap them, most will with a good hydrostactic test. Or fill them is up to the supplier and what the rules from on high are.

[DSW]

HandBuilt if you take it to get it filled keep it on your truck until they agree to swap it. If you put it on their dock they can legally claim it as theirs and that it is a "orphaned" tank. You will have to fight with them to get the tank back. Some guys will give you a hassle over unclaimed tanks. Some places will give you a free lease for turning in "orphaned" tanks. This may be an answer possibly for you. I have an account with my LWS and have 6 of "their" bottles. I slowly swapped out my own large O2 cylinders I got from a hydro shop. If I got caught by someone I'd just apologise and say that the darn kid at the shop loaded the wrong damn tank. Then proceed to bitch about all your lost time. Yelling at "someone" on the phone helps a lot. "What am I paying you for? You can't even follow simple directions!" Makes for interesting messages on the answering machine at home.:D

I don't have a "lease" per say. I do have an account, but mostly pay cash. I bring in a bottle and they swap it no problems. It also helps that I don't give my local guy any hassles and he has gotten to know me over the years.


jmcbroom, I would treat them as if you owned them. My owned tanks from GTS still have their name on the tanks even though I own them and have swapped them a bunch of times. I wouldn't say anything about the airgas name unless they ask. Play stupid. "I borrowed my buddies tanks and I want to give them back to him filled. You mean I have to go somewhere else to get them filled? Oops, I'm sorry!"

[MT4Runner]

Some of my tanks were bought for scrap weight from a scrap yard-I paid the hydro fee and was good to go.

I've done that with kegs!!

Most places in my area no longer sell the large cylinders out right. i just tell them i had it sitting in the shop not using it. But being on a first name basis with all the local welding dealers doesn`t hurt.

good idea!

I wouldn't say anything about the airgas name unless they ask. Play stupid. "I borrowed my buddies tanks and I want to give them back to him filled. You mean I have to go somewhere else to get them filled? Oops, I'm sorry!"

I've done that, too.

[jmcbroom]

Thanks guys!

I'm still fighting with myself on when to approach my grandmother. I was given his burial flag this last weekend and feel a bit selfish asking for anything more, but I will at least let her know I am interested in them if she decides to sell them and I'll go from there.

I appreciate the help.