I will soon be swapping a 2f for a chevy 383 and would like to know if I should be worried about the original tcase holding up. It is a 4speed tcase ('78) and right now the plan is to run a th350 tranny. I know it would depend somewhat on driving style and hp numbers so: approx. 330hp and 400lb/ft and I don't drive like my grandma. I guess I just don't want to have to baby it. Is it likely to break, or have these been known to last a while?

If it would be wiser/safer to swap in a different tcase, which tcase would be a good choice for the stock offset axles? I would like to swap axles eventually, but that is long down the road on my student budget.

I appreciate the info!
Caleb

You'll break it if you crunch the gas all the time. Maybe right away, and maybe way down the road... Automatics do tend to be a bit easier on t-cases, but a 383 can belt out WAY more torque than they were ever designed to handle.

If you want to stay with Cruza axles than go with a split case. I am in the process of that and they are much stronger. It also gives you the option of lower gears down the road (when the prices drop hopefully). And lastly, you can support the rear drivetrain from the bottom of the adapter with a FJ60 rear mount...which is better than the other way.

383 = big torque :smokin:

How hard are splitcases to find, and at what cost?

Hmmm...

Who has cut down a 14ff? They are pretty cheap to come by, so if they are not too much to chop maybe I'll just center the diff and pick up an np205. Is cutting down the diff something I could do? I know I can't do the axles, but how hard would it be to shorten the housing. I am an excellent welder, just never tried this before. Also what is the cost to shorten and respline the axles?

I think I like this idea better. It will be a lot harder to break the 205 and 14ff than the stock LC units. Then I only have to find a d60 to cut down for the front when money again allows.

Pass along some insight, I need it!
Caleb

I'm going through the same thing you are on my half 67/half 79 FJ 40, I don't know how many hours of research I've done, so I know it's a bitch. In my my opinion 63-80 transfer cases are not good to have behind a V8, if you drive like we do!. Since I swapped from a 283 to a 350 I have blown up the Idler and Hi/Lo output gears on two four speed transfer cases and one three speed case. I'm done with Toyota. I'm currently doing a major drivetrain swap to a SM465, Dana 300 T-case, and a custom Cruiser/ Minitruck centered rear axle. What's going to kill you is the rear axle. I looked into Custom Dana 60's, Dana 44's, Ford 9"s, Chevy 10/12 bolts and about everything else out there and decided the Cruiser/ 79-85 truck axle is the most cost effective versus strength option. It has everything going for it, all parts can be found easily, axles are cheap and plentiful and STRONG. A fullfloater 6 lug kit that is for a Toy pickup is available if want it. Disc brakes can be adapted with caddy parking brake calipers for about 400 bucks. The only thing that is custom is the centered housing itself. This is of course the housing that is mentioned on IH8MUD.com. I called John at Cruiser parts and he said that he adds a sleeve or another tube into your already beefy Cruiser housing that gives it a 1/2 inch wall thickness. That is the same as a Dana 60! You can check out what it looks like at WWW.TOYOTALANDCRUISERPARTS.COM. I have talked to John a couple of times now and he has been very patient with all my questions about issues with swapping in NP205's and all the stuff your talking about. Give him a call and he might be able to help you go in the right direction. By the way, I am not affiliated with this guy in any way. I'm just plugging his business because he has been helpful and it looks like he does some really good work!
I'm going to buy the housing in a week or two. He wants $700.00 for one, seems spendy but it's not if you research how much cut down 60's with brakes total out to.
:beer:

Originally posted by Jeremy Sagmiller
I'm going through the same thing you are on my half 67/half 79 FJ 40, I don't know how many hours of research I've done, so I know it's a bitch. In my my opinion 63-80 transfer cases are not good to have behind a V8, if you drive like we do!. Since I swapped from a 283 to a 350 I have blown up the Idler and Hi/Lo output gears on two four speed transfer cases and one three speed case. I'm done with Toyota. I'm currently doing a major drivetrain swap to a SM465, Dana 300 T-case, and a custom Cruiser/ Minitruck centered rear axle. What's going to kill you is the rear axle. I looked into Custom Dana 60's, Dana 44's, Ford 9"s, Chevy 10/12 bolts and about everything else out there and decided the Cruiser/ 79-85 truck axle is the most cost effective versus strength option. It has everything going for it, all parts can be found easily, axles are cheap and plentiful and STRONG. A fullfloater 6 lug kit that is for a Toy pickup is available if want it. Disc brakes can be adapted with caddy parking brake calipers for about 400 bucks. The only thing that is custom is the centered housing itself. This is of course the housing that is mentioned on IH8MUD.com. I called John at Cruiser parts and he said that he adds a sleeve or another tube into your already beefy Cruiser housing that gives it a 1/2 inch wall thickness. That is the same as a Dana 60! You can check out what it looks like at WWW.TOYOTALANDCRUISERPARTS.COM. I have talked to John a couple of times now and he has been very patient with all my questions about issues with swapping in NP205's and all the stuff your talking about. Give him a call and he might be able to help you go in the right direction. By the way, I am not affiliated with this guy in any way. I'm just plugging his business because he has been helpful and it looks like he does some really good work!
I'm going to buy the housing in a week or two. He wants $700.00 for one, seems spendy but it's not if you research how much cut down 60's with brakes total out to.
:beer:

Jeremy,

I went this route before I had my D60 cut down in the rear of my Cruiser.

I too got a bare housing to run mini axles and a Cruiser center, however mine came from CV Unlimited.

Here are the costs that I encountered when I did mine....

$700 Housing
$125 Rear Disc Brake Brackets (sure you could get these cheaper)
$150 (2) loaded Monte Carlo Calipers w/banjo fittings, etc
$100 Toyota mini rear axles (may find cheaper)
$100 for new bearings from Toyota

On top of this, if you go with rear discs, you have to press off the rear drum brake stuff and then press the new bearings back on the Toyota axle.

All told I had about $1200 in this Toyota hybrid rear axle.

IMHO that is about $700 too much for what I had!

I had a narrow axle with the weak Cruiser pinion.

For the cost of this setup, a 31 spline Ford 9" is a MUCH better option...hell you can have one custom built for the same price, or you can save a bunch of $$ and grab one from a Pick and Pull.

This is from 1st hand experience, take it or leave it...

Back to your origional question, loose the Toyota transfer case for sure and get a D300...the 205 does not have enouh gear reduction to make it a good choice and he D300 can be upgraded to handle just about anything you can throw at it.

Same goes with the Ford 9", if you break a 31 spline axle, you can upgrade the pig to a nodular unit and get 35 spline 1.5" axles like a D60...

Originally posted by calileo
How hard are splitcases to find, and at what cost?

Hmmm...

Who has cut down a 14ff? They are pretty cheap to come by, so if they are not too much to chop maybe I'll just center the diff and pick up an np205. Is cutting down the diff something I could do? I know I can't do the axles, but how hard would it be to shorten the housing. I am an excellent welder, just never tried this before. Also what is the cost to shorten and respline the axles?

I think I like this idea better. It will be a lot harder to break the 205 and 14ff than the stock LC units. Then I only have to find a d60 to cut down for the front when money again allows.

Pass along some insight, I need it!
Caleb

Cutting down a 14 bolt is pretty simple, it is welding it back up without warping the housing that is hard ;)

Most that do this use a jig to make sure the housing does not warp. If this happens then you will always have problems with it leaking.

Moser will respline anything for $50....cutting it will cost a little more...

Lotsa info to look into for sure! Thanks for all the suggestions! Got to get to work, so I'll have to check back...
Later, Caleb

I know the 14 bolt is a popular choice, mainly because they are relatively inexpensive. I have a real problem with how far the center section hangs down. You need to do some major shaving to keep that anchor off the rocks.

Calileo, Rapid City...I just drove through there a couple weeks ago...it was friggin too hot for me (97 degrees).

Anyway, I had a 465 and 4sp cruiser t-case w/ cruiser rear. I was continually worrying about breaking a t-case, or a rear pinion.

Soooo, I swapped in a 205 t-case (will probably put in a toy pickup t-case w/ low gears soon) and a homebuilt hybrid dana 60/wide toy rear end.

The rear end was great cause it got rid of the smallish cruiser pinion, the c-clip axles, and the 4 wheel cylinder brakes.

I've got $251 bucks total into the rear end
$100 dana 60 w/ 4.10s
$30 Carrier bearings
$50 IFS toy rear end w/o third member
$70 Triple thick diff cover
$1 Welding rod (locker)



Go to www.IH8MUD.com for more info on cruiser t-cases, diffs etc.


I'll cut and paste my compiled info on options for rear ends in cruisers now cause I'm feeling generous:p


Options for Centered Rear Ends in FJ40 Landcruisers

Stock Offset FJ40 cruiser rear end width WTW (Wheel To Wheel)= 1400mm=55.1” (inches)
Source: http://www.off-road.com/tlc/faq/frame.html#HD_NM_3
I have not measured the WTW myself but this should be pretty close

35 spline Dana 60 (semi-floating).
Also, you could make a 35 spline Dana 60 (semi-floating). The housing ends are about $65 a pair from Art Morrison or Dutchman or Moser. The bearings would probably be about the same, if not less. The axles cost about $400 but are probably the last and only ones you'll ever have to buy for that rear end (Dutchman has 40 spline Dana 60 axles with bearings, retainer plates, and studs for $470).

6 lug semi-floating 30 spline Dana 60 (55” or 58” WTW)
You could do the 6 lug semi floating Dana 60 using Toyota pickup axles, brakes, and a portion of the toy tubes with a Dana 60 center section and tubes. The width depends on the year of the rear end; 55 inches wide for pre-IFS rear ends and 58 inches wide for IFS truck rear ends.

The pre-IFS rear ends have 2 5/8” tube diameters so they will fit inside the 3.125” OD 0.313” wall tubes of the rear Dana 60 with a little grinding.

The IFS rear ends have much larger 2 15/16” tubes which neck down to approximately 2 5/8” near the housing ends. A good way to adapt the tubes together is to machine an adapter tube to fit inside both of the tubes.

Custom centered cruiser housing (55” or 58” WTW)
Custom centered cruiser housing ($350-400ish ???) using toy pickup axles and brakes. A guy in Oregon makes these housings. I think the guy is John Groves of Cruiser Parts in Grants Pass Oregon. Phone is (541) 479-5500.

Stock centered cruiser housing (1958-1962) (53” WTW)
Also, I can't forget the stock centered cruiser housing. Drawbacks: hard to find, uses 10 spline axles, and is 2 inches narrower than offset cruiser rear ends.

V-6 or turbo toy pickup rear end (58” or 55” WTW)
You could just use a v-6 or turbo toy pickup rear end. The toy pinions are the same size as the cruiser’s at the splines. Also, the axles are the same at the splines except they do not use c-clips. I heard that both (maybe only one of them…can’t remember exactly) the V-6 and the turbo toy pickup rear ends have stronger third members than the standard 4 cyl rear ends. They have a stronger 4-pin design carrier.

One last thing about cruiser pinions vs pickup pinions...the pinion splines and diameter of the splined part of the pinion are the same (fine spline ones). I know this because I'm using a pickup flange on my cruiser third member so I can use the Toyota pickup driveline which has a longer slip yoke. Also, the toy and the cruiser use the same pinion seal. The rest of the pinion is different.

Cruiser/toy pinion=1.107” diameter with 27 splines
Dana 44 pinion =1.144” diameter with 26 splines

9 inch rear end: ‘66-‘77 Bronco (58” WTW)
A 9 inch rear out of a 66-77 bronco would fit, although it would be about 3 inches wider than the stock rear end. These are 28 spline so new 6 lug 31 spline axles would be in order.

9 inch rear end: late 70’s Lincoln Versailles.
You could use a 9 inch rear end out of a late 70s Lincoln Versailles. It is approximately the right width. They are hard to find, use 28 spline instead of 31 spline axles, and are 5 lug (you could have the pattern changed or get new 31 spline axles with the correct bolt pattern).

Dana 44: Scout or Scout II
A rear end out of an International Scout or Scout II would work. They may be a bit wide though (4-6 inches?). I was told that a rear end out of an 800 series scout would be approximately the right width.

Dana 44 or solid axle AMC 20: Wagoneer (58” WTW)
Another rear end you could use would be a Dana 44 out of a Wagoneer or a solid axle (not the splined hub type) AMC 20 out of a Wagoneer. However, it is difficult to find the centered AMC 20 that has solid axles.

Dana 44: CJ (51” WTW)
Another rear end you could use would be a flanged axle Dana 44 out of an early to mid 70s jeep cj. Unfortunately, they are a few inches narrower than the stock cruiser rear end which results in a lot more tire rubbing in the fender wells. They also are 5 lug instead of 6 lug. To remedy these problems, expensive 2”-3” wheel spacers which adapt 5 lug to 6 lug could be used.

Summary:

The centered diff rear end that you choose to replace your offset cruiser diff is probably going to be a matter of $$$ in most cases. If you want the ultimate in strength then go with the semi floating 35 spline dana 60. The hybrid toy/dana 60 rear ends will work fine with moderate horsepower and will probably cost less than the 35 spline Dana 60. The Ford 9 inch rearends are okay if you have 31 spline axles. I wouldn’t use one if it had 28 spline. Also, I’ve seen the pinion support crack when they were used in friends jeeps.

The dana 44 isn’t much (if any) of an upgrade. The pinion is basically the same size and so are the axles. The only reason someone may swap it in is because it was the cheapest way to go for a centered diff.


Whew! :rasta:

BTW, as for ground clearance with a 60...

I have 12" (yes 12") of clearance under the diff.

38.5 SXs help with clearance a little;)

Well, the stock t-case isn't the strongest case around, but you can make it stronger with a t-case saver plate. The t-case usually splits right down the middle when overtorqued but this plate adds strength and absorbs the torque rather than the t-case. If you're not going to be doing any HEAVY wheeling, this should do the trick. Here's the link right below.

http://www.tcase.homestead.com/tcasesaver.html

WOW! I knew there was a reason I keep coming back to this board.
Tankota, you are lucky you didn't pass through when we had one of the two three day periods of 105 degree weather this summer- that is too damn hot! Great compilation of info! And since you are feeling so generous how about selling me that hybrid of yours for $252 bucks?:D
That sounds like a great setup. Did you build it yourself? What is the diameter of the pickup axles?- Is there much of a loss of strength compared to a cut-down 60? What are some available options for disc brakes on this setup?

Do you have any pics I could drool over?

Thanks man, I really appreciate the help.:)

Tankota, is that identical to the list linked on the ih8mud.com tech board now for centered rear diff options, or are you continually updating it?? If so, I need to cut-paste what you have and make sure my list is current.

I JUST received an email this morning....would people be interested in CAST IRON Cruiser t-cases?? Warden's billet case is what, $1200 empty? Email I got was for something in the $500 range. No product yet, so no begging for info. As I learn more (and if it happens), I'll pass it on.

If you want to go for a Ford 9" I have a 58" wide Big Bearing, HD housing unit with 11" drums on it that I'd sell for $500. It's the same with as a FJ60/FJ62 front and the same as a Scout or Wagoneer 44 front as well.

thanks

Stumbaugh

john.stumbaugh@itt.com

Originally posted by woody
I JUST received an email this morning....would people be interested in CAST IRON Cruiser t-cases?? Warden's billet case is what, $1200 empty? Email I got was for something in the $500 range. No product yet, so no begging for info. As I learn more (and if it happens), I'll pass it on.

I have seen these in the Man-a-Fre catalog. Supposedly they are from Banderante's.

The only thing I see wrong with this is that is comes without the input and output cones and that too is a weak link.

Cast Iron woulr be better if you have a ton invested in your Toyota rear axle (4.88's and ARB for example) and really wanted to keep it.

Otherwise, I feel you are better off swaping the transfer case and rear axle.

Woody, the only changes I made were a couple of minor grammatical ones so don't worry about updating it:) PS It was easier to go to your website to find it than through my own files.


Tankota, you are lucky you didn't pass through when we had one of the two three

In De Smet it was 111 degrees :eek:

And since you are feeling so generous how about selling me that hybrid of yours for $252?

No thanks...I think I'll keep this one for a while:cool:

Yep, I did build it my self.

The axleshaft diameters are the same as a cruiser, toyota pickup,dana 60 (30 spline) and dana 44.
I don't think there is any appreciable loss of strength when comparing it to a cut down dana 60 cause the axles would be the same size. The only difference would be Full floating vs semifloating (I assume you are talking about cutting down a full floating 30 spline dana 60).

Options for disk brakes are any of the kits sold for putting disks on toyota pickup rear ends.

Originally posted by wngrog
The only thing I see wrong with this is that is comes without the input and output cones and that too is a weak link.

You didn't read my email reply did you?!?!

That was one of my questions...rear output is strong enuf, but front out put is not. Have to see what I get back.

Told them to incorporate a flat spot on it too for custom crossmember installs....ditch that damn AdvAdapter bracket thingie.

Originally posted by woody


You didn't read my email reply did you?!?!

That was one of my questions...rear output is strong enuf, but front out put is not. Have to see what I get back.

Told them to incorporate a flat spot on it too for custom crossmember installs....ditch that damn AdvAdapter bracket thingie.

What email reply?:confused:

I remember Wardens made a billet input cone at one time......

Originally posted by wngrog
What email reply?:confused:


I meant the reply I sent this morning to the person who emailed me...thought you might've been reading over my shoulder! lol

I'm going to run a dana 18, novak makes adapters for the 350 to dana 18, jeep guys use that setup. Dana 18's have 2.46 low range, cast iron case and are offset like a cruiser. Many are twin stick and have a driveline ebrake. Length is very comparible to a cruiser t/c. You can find them used for $100 or less. Gears are available to make them 3.15:1 low range for about $5-600.