Why is the defense mine trail now closed. Last sunday a friend made a trip to the trail and there was a brand new blm sign closing the trail. Fresh foot prints and dig marks. Anyone know any info.
Kory

WHAT?!?
You gotta be kidding me. :confused:


Where was the sign?

Thanks for the update.
The trail is not in the wilderness so there is no reason it should be closed.

Are you sure this was the main entrance to the canyon and not the cutoff ?




Ill look into it and let you all know.


kris.

It sounded more like one of the washes was signed as closed. I didn't take the info as "the road to Defense Mine". I'll post up the exact verbage . . .

Either way, why close a wash? Who closed the wash?

edit>

I made a quick trip over to Panamint Sunday. I decided to take the wash that we took for the Full Defense run. Much to my surprise there are brand new BLM signs closing the trail. (You could still see the footprints and shovel marks from the work crew) I was not sure if the trail was for real or just a recent side trail, for this reason I am hesitant to draw attention too the fact that we had traveled it in the past.
Most disappointing.

The email quoted was from a friend of mine. It's the lower wash off the Minietta Rd which is now signed closed (About two miles in from Panamint Valley Rd). The wash hooks up with the Nadeau Rd before going up to the Defense Trail proper. It's what PVD uses for the 'Full Defense' Run.

The PVD Cttee are aware of this new lump of carsonite.

Andy

The email quoted was from a friend of mine.
Andy

Your friend emailed to a Desert Dawg Club Member, he forwarded to the rest of the Club which include RockJeep92504 and myself. We do a lot of runs out there for the Panamint Valley Days event and for fun.

The email quoted was from a friend of mine. It's the lower wash off the Minietta Rd which is now signed closed (About two miles in from Panamint Valley Rd). The wash hooks up with the Nadeau Rd before going up to the Defense Trail proper. It's what PVD uses for the 'Full Defense' Run.

The PVD Cttee are aware of this new lump of carsonite.

Andy

I think I ran that wash the first time I ran Defense years ago.
Thanks for the update.

Your friend emailed to a Desert Dawg Club Member, he forwarded to the rest of the Club which include RockJeep92504 and myself. We do a lot of runs out there for the Panamint Valley Days event and for fun.

I emailed it to John, he cc'd me on the DD email. It was a different buddy who found the sign. One of the folks who lives in Panamint Valley is checking it out for us.

Kris and I are waiting for his 'on the scene' report.

Andy

Cool

ok, Im tired.

This is NEMO at work.

This is just the first trail that anyone cared about to get the axe.
There will be many more closures in the area in the near future.

Not all is lost. There are ways that we can possibly get this back, and possibly save others that are on the block.

A plan is being put together, there will be more info soon.
There will be work to do. Be ready and stay tuned.


kris.

Kris
I wanted to note that in the camping area as you just come on to Minietta Road, there are several new signs creating a boundary along the road. These are marked Desert Reclamation Area. Behind this there are several wood barriers blocking unmarked off road trails. These are trails that were made by campers in the area, not servicing other locations.
Kelly

Thanks Kelly.


Do you mean the area on the left just off of PV road, or are you talking about the area around the intersection of Minietta rd/p105/Minietta cabin rd (the airstrip) ?

BLM told me yesterday there has been alot of signing and restoration work in that area recently. Im hoping they are not the two camping areas that are around the cabin turnoff, and further up the Modoc road on the right where the old car is.


k.

It's the area just off PV road. Sorry I did not have my camera, when they say alot of signs they mean it (20+).
I didn't see anything by the cabin. I think Chris was going to check it out further.
Kelly

I will head out there tomorrow morning and get some pictures.

It's the area just off PV road. Sorry I did not have my camera, when they say alot of signs they mean it (20+).
Kelly

That's where I parked my tow rig last time I was out there. Is there still enough room to park a few trucks and trailers there?

They left about a 30' wide strip along the road to park or camp, seems too close to the road for me.
Kelly

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/1046/cfr4sy7.jpg

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9124/cfr5lc0.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3783/c1rr1.jpg

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/8554/c2ai5.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3720/c3hu5.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2465/c4eb8.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8741/c5qf7.jpg

Thank to B-spec for being on the ground!!

Chris
Thanks for posting the pictures.
Kelly

the question i have in mind--- are those real / LEGALLY placed markers ????

in days gone by- our local BLM office would give an unlimited quanity of those markers to ANYONE that would go out and place them ANYWHERE !

We have found them in places you wouldn't beleive !!
I wonder if our local BLM is at it again ?????

at one time, we collected 30 from private property and returned/dumped them in the parking lot/doorstep of our local office.

the question i have in mind--- are those real / LEGALLY placed markers ????


Technically speaking, some are and the rest may be.

The route that was closed is not apparently listed on the NEMO map. That would make it an illegal route, therefor a legal closure.

The large area that was closed just off the pavement may also be. It is not part of Minietta Road and on BLM land. My understanding is that if they see a route, campspot, pullout, or whatever that they feel is being abused they can close it.

As far as the Minietta pullout goes, Im sure they see that closure as providing for the pullout and parking, as well as camping, but protecting the outlying desert.

From the pictures, is doesnt look like there is enough room to turn my motorhome, with jeep in tow around, and thats a problem.

If this really bothers anyone, lemme know and I will get you in contact with the appropriate people in the Ridgecrest BLM office.

More carsonite will be going up in the valley the way things are going.
Keep your eyes open and if you see anything that you feel isnt right, post it up here and I will look into it.

k.

This is the kind of stuff they do that has no good reason. We parked in that spot with our trailers not too long ago, and now it doesn't look like there's enough room to turn around. We didn't camp, just parked for the day while we ran the trail.

If they don't leave enough room to turn around, we all know what's going to happen.......folks will still use the space to turn around. If they want to post so that area doesn't just keep growing bigger and bigger (don't know why it would, but they may think that way), they at least need to consider that we need a place to park and turn around.

Not to go off topic here, but times are changing, and they are changing fast. I have been fighting Ocean Closers for years now, and they keep taking away more and more of it. Now they are heading to the LA Area, so If any of you fish the salt, now is the time to act.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/southcoast.asp

Hear from folks who were at PVD, that the Defense Mine road has been scoured out to bedrock in a flash flood and is now an extreme trail aboce the Cummins Cutoff? Any truth to this?

Ive heard pretty much the same thing. Unfortunately there have been so many stockish vehicles going up the past few years that its level of difficulty is up to interpretation.

You heading out there soon ?

k.

Was thinking of heading out there for New Years, but my s$%t is buried in snow in the backyard. Not sure if I'll rally or not yet and dig it out.

Want to see first hand about Defense tho as seems like it would have washed right thru the Cummins Cutoff as well, which folks said was the same?
If anyone knows any more about it or has pics, please post up.

Want to see first hand about Defense tho as seems like it would have washed right thru the Cummins Cutoff as well, which folks said was the same?
If anyone knows any more about it or has pics, please post up.

My 2 Clubs led the trail both days at PVD. No one said anything special about Defense Mine. Same report from the Oct prerun.

BTW - there has been a collapse at the 2nd level in the mine. You can still crawl through but not as comfortable as walking. Makes you thing about future collapses!

Steve

Bummer about the collapse, that mine is spectacular to explore and seemed like good hard rock.

Was suspicious about the source who told me the Defense mine road is impassable because a flash flood scoured all the gravel down to bedrock.
Was told that even buggys had a hard time getting up there.

Source was probably talking about the Cummins cutoff section, but I need to get out there and see for myself.
Thanks for the reply.

Also, there was a fire in Pleasant Canyon that took out the upper half of the willows section. Grass was already growing back so it was a few months ago. Nature will take it back but it looks kinda sad for a bit.

On New years weekend, did a day run out to see the Defense trail and it looks like a super highway. Looks like some water came down a while back, but if the trail was washed out, you'd never know it!
Heard that at PVD, the Defense runs were cancelled because the trail was too rough even for buggies?? But hard to believe after seeing it New Years.

Anyone know if the trail was actually washed out and then repaired??:confused:

On New years weekend, did a day run out to see the Defense trail and it looks like a super highway. Looks like some water came down a while back, but if the trail was washed out, you'd never know it!
Heard that at PVD, the Defense runs were cancelled because the trail was too rough even for buggies?? But hard to believe after seeing it New Years.

Anyone know if the trail was actually washed out and then repaired??:confused:

PVD ran Defense, and it was far from rough. It was about the same as it has been the last few years.

Thanks, thot so, trail is easier than ever IMO.

Thanks, thot so, trail is easier than ever IMO.

I just ran defense mine not to long ago and was thinking the same thing. Even cummins seemed easier than ever.

I ran Defense with ECV back in January, great trail, would love to do it again.

Defense update: 2/20/10 Experienced wheeling bud ran it last weekend and reports that some water came down it this winter sometime and that it is rougher than he remembers, but open and doable. Will be out there in middle of March and will post up what I find.

Just for the record-

We ran it this past week in 80 series Land Cruisers. About the same as it's been for many years. We did not do "the cut off" section. IT was rocky with a few small stair steps, but nothing significant.

Came in through Minetta, out through the Nadeu Road to the North.

The only trail closure I saw was a side canyon to the north on the way down, and a short bypass on the Nadeu Road.

Ran the trail two weeks ago and the trail is rougher than I've ever seen it, but still very doable by most willing to work at it. Some water definitely came down it and modified the trail.

lockers needed to get up there now?

Hey Del,
A good aggressive driver could make it open/open, but I'd recommend atleast one locker. There's a number of places where you're driving thru basketball size rock gardens, but 33s are plenty big. Newbs in stockers would think it was pretty rough.
The mine is in great shape and all the guide signs and ladders are hanging in there. Take care, Greg