I want to start racing again by end of the year. Comps will be amateur marathon rallyes like the Dakar in northern africa, not the baja style events.
Based on a budget the whole rig should be built with as little money as possible.
As budget base vehicles I have the choice between:

Ford Explorer 1st gen.
Jeep XJ
Nissan Pathfinder 1st gen.
Range Rover 3.9i

Which one would YOU choose and why ?
Remember we're not talking 20" fancy coilover setups etc. I'll keep it as stock as possible to keep me in the stock class, means only roll cage some suspension upgrades and maybe some fiberglass.

Based upon nothing other than my buddy's first gen Pathfinder and its ability to keep running and wheeling no matter what hell we put it through, that's the route I'd take. It's pure opinion and offers no tech so take it for what it's worth.

Based upon nothing other than my buddy's first gen Pathfinder and its ability to keep running and wheeling no matter what hell we put it through, that's the route I'd take. It's pure opinion and offers no tech so take it for what it's worth.

That's even my first choice. I have 10 years of experience on Pathfinders and the V6 models are on sale for less than 1 grand over here. Another plus is I have quite some suspension stuff including a Calmini steering laying around. Only drawback is the lack in the power department.

If you go with a jeep XJ, the Jeepspeed guys have already done a lot of research for you. Cage designs, frame/body reinforcements, engine reliability, suspension design, etc.

...and the 4.0L is defiantly not lacking in the power department.
But I have no idea how easy XJ's (and parts) are to come buy over there.

...and the 4.0L is defiantly not lacking in the power department.
But I have no idea how easy XJ's (and parts) are to come buy over there.


I'm a die hard Jeep guy, help out with Dust Junky Racing Jeepspeed 1706 car, and will be the first to admit the the 4.0L is a boat anchor of a motor. It'll run forever, but is a POOR choice for a race engine, IMO.

Stroker 4.0L is marginally better, but there are countless other engines out there superior to the Jeep 4.0 for an "open" race class. No matter what you do, the 4.0L is still a pushrod/inline 6 better suited for rock crawling than desert racing.

Very true, it's weight does offset its reliability and power some.

Well, the XJ was definitly the #2 on my list as they're also cheap to get over here, even cheaper than the Nissan.
What drags me away is the amount of work that has to be done to reinforce the body, uniframe and axles. This stuff is super sturdy at the Nissan, except for the steering which will be fixed with the Calmini one anyway.
With the Nissan I get a rear axle that comes close to a D60 in strength (not weight). The front diff can be compared to a D44 in strength, so no worries about R&P's giving up or braking axles.
The rear suspension is also somewhat easier to go with on coils and 4-link with panhard rod, the front IFS needs some work though.

5 speed first gen exploder. 4.0 makes good power. Can get travel out of the frontend cheap and easy. Axles will take plenty of abuse.

5 speed first gen exploder. 4.0 makes good power. Can get travel out of the frontend cheap and easy. Axles will take plenty of abuse.

5 speed are hard to find here, they only sold the fully loaded auto's. But I'll give it a look, my brother has one as a DD so maybe his will be the guinnea pig for test jumping:flipoff2:
With that much travel I want, is it possible to still keep it 4WD ?
4WD is a must for these races as they go thru the dunes for long distances.

You first need to check the regs of the events that you are looking to do and then build the car to that spec.

FIA will limit you to a max travel of 280 - 300 mm if you are 4x4. It's anything goes if you go with 2WD.

Only then should you start sourcing the car. Personally I would steer clear of the Jeep and Ford, the Range Rover will cost you an absolute fortune in maintenance, so you're ending up with the Pathfinder which is a good choice!

You first need to check the regs of the events that you are looking to do and then build the car to that spec.

FIA will limit you to a max travel of 280 - 300 mm if you are 4x4. It's anything goes if you go with 2WD.

Only then should you start sourcing the car. Personally I would steer clear of the Jeep and Ford, the Range Rover will cost you an absolute fortune in maintenance, so you're ending up with the Pathfinder which is a good choice!

The events are no FIA events, it's a common thing here to race amateure events with more or less no regulations. You just have to have a rollcage, fire-ex etc.
Safety is specified in these events, everything else is up to what you get engineered by the DMV/DOT/TUV as the car has to be regulary registered and being roadworthy. So you basically race against anything from a stock Suzuki up to a fully race prepped 400hp G-wagon.
2WD isn't really an option as most events are going thru the Sahara desert and don't use dirt tracks as the Baja does.
As for the Range, it's not that bad with costs since parts are dirt cheap over here, it only sucks having to build a car to the end to be as reliable as the Pathfinder is in stock form.

It sounds like you have experience with the Nissan, so that is what I'd use. You won't have to re-learn alot of things about an unfamiliar vehicle.
Travis..

^^^Good idea. Personally, I would go with the XJ or exploder. Probably the ford first, because it already has a strong frame, and the 4.0 engine is a good powerplant. Don't know what its like to get parts for one over there, but they have a lot of aftermarket support (for when you start seriously modifying it). You can get a pretty decent amount of travel out of the front suspension in stock form, too.

Good input from y'all, keep it coming !
I'd prolly reaally go with the Nissan since I know it inside out, even designed a very good selling suspension for it.
I was just thinking a bit out of the box evolving other possibilities.
Parts are easy to come by for all, for the Nissan even harder than the others.

5 speed are hard to find here, they only sold the fully loaded auto's. But I'll give it a look, my brother has one as a DD so maybe his will be the guinnea pig for test jumping:flipoff2:
With that much travel I want, is it possible to still keep it 4WD ?
4WD is a must for these races as they go thru the dunes for long distances.

How much travel do you need? There are guys running 18" travel with working 4wd but it takes a little work. I'd say i get around 12" of travel with my TTB setup with a relocated upper shock mount and the rest stock.

12" is a good number to start with. I'm getting about 8-10" out of the modified Nissan front end.

If you are going to race under FIA regulations
the maximum allowed travel is
30 cm for solid axles = rear of the Nissan
25 cm for IFS = front

here is a hardbody that was built here in Egypt to race in Pyramids & Pharaohs rally (FIA)

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z308/gabroxy/POST/EL_PyrV_160.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z308/gabroxy/POST/EL_PyrV_152.jpg

If you are going to race under FIA regulations
the maximum allowed travel is
30 cm for solid axles = rear of the Nissan
25 cm for IFS = front

here is a hardbody that was built here in Egypt to race in Pyramids & Pharaohs rally (FIA)

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z308/gabroxy/POST/EL_PyrV_160.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z308/gabroxy/POST/EL_PyrV_152.jpg

FIA regulations do not apply in the amateure series, but if they would I will have to limit the rear travel anyway.
The HB in the pics looks like a HB body sitting on a 100" Range Rover frame and axles ?

I would say go with the Explorer. Guys have been running Ford TTB (4wd) and Twin I-beam (2wd) front suspension in the desert for years, probably the most proven stock style suspension out of the vehicles you've listed. As mentioned the 4.0 should be up to the task in the power department. With some mods the auto tranny can live fine. Lastly is the rear axle, which should be a 31sp 8.8 with disc brakes, excellent choice.

I would say go with the Explorer. Guys have been running Ford TTB (4wd) and Twin I-beam (2wd) front suspension in the desert for years, probably the most proven stock style suspension out of the vehicles you've listed. As mentioned the 4.0 should be up to the task in the power department. With some mods the auto tranny can live fine. Lastly is the rear axle, which should be a 31sp 8.8 with disc brakes, excellent choice.
Agreed. Get a 5 speed, I wouldn't own an A4LD if you paid me. And no, first gens didn't have disc brake 8.8s, but they are 31 spline.

FIA regulations do not apply in the amateure series, but if they would I will have to limit the rear travel anyway.
The HB in the pics looks like a HB body sitting on a 100" Range Rover frame and axles ?

Yes its an LR chassis but not sure which one

I had a closer look at my brothers 1 gen Explorer yesterday. The front suspension really has potential but the frame is just a plain joke, that thing isn't even boxed:eek:
I think I'll go with my Patrol. Originally I planned a tube body for it, but now I'll go with the old body cut as pick up with tubed front.
This gives me a solid front with 15" travel and 60% LSD, selectable rear locker and very sturdy axles. Drivetrain is a 4.3 Vortec with TH700 bolted to the 2.9:1 Nissan t-case.

http://jeep.cfasp.de/upload/674118.jpg
http://up.picr.de/818025.jpg

front and rear h233's? Quite stout for what they are. The weak 3.0 in the pathfinder can be easily upped by putting a 3.3 in (with a little work). I went with the 3.3 in mine. It's not a major hotrod, but these engines don't die. i've been on snow runs for 4+ hours with the tach over 4000 rpm, quite often bouncing off the rev limiter, and she kept going while everybody else overheated.

I would still rather have a patrol, though.:D

front and rear h233's? Quite stout for what they are. The weak 3.0 in the pathfinder can be easily upped by putting a 3.3 in (with a little work). I went with the 3.3 in mine. It's not a major hotrod, but these engines don't die. i've been on snow runs for 4+ hours with the tach over 4000 rpm, quite often bouncing off the rev limiter, and she kept going while everybody else overheated.

I would still rather have a patrol, though.:D

The GQ Patrol (at least here in Europe) came stock with the RD28T 2.8 turbo diesel inline 6 which is known to be a hand grenade blowing heads every now and then. So I ripped that one out and go with the 4.3 Chevy and TH700.
The V6 engines only came in the IFS D21, D22 models. The 3.3 diesel and turbo diesel out of the older Patrols is reliable engine but still a heavy boat anchor.
The rear 233 even has a stock selectable 100% locker

I want to start racing again by end of the year. Comps will be amateur marathon rallyes like the Dakar in northern africa, not the baja style events.
Based on a budget the whole rig should be built with as little money as possible.
As budget base vehicles I have the choice between:

Ford Explorer 1st gen.
Jeep XJ
Nissan Pathfinder 1st gen.
Range Rover 3.9i

Which one would YOU choose and why ?
Remember we're not talking 20" fancy coilover setups etc. I'll keep it as stock as possible to keep me in the stock class, means only roll cage some suspension upgrades and maybe some fiberglass.

kia sportage, seriously

So I just scored myself a bargain base vehicle:
'95 Ford Maverick, which is basically a first generation Pathfinder chassis with a Xterra like body and short wheel base (which is the only drawback).
Engine is the 2.4 Nissan which is ok for the start as this one comes down to less than 3k lbs in weight.

http://i11.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/f7/77/c4f4_1.JPG

Just have to get used to having the steering wheel on the right hand side as this is a UK spec vehicle, but for 500$ I don't really bother.

If i was you I'd be using the Patrol. You have a very strong drive train and 12" to 14" travel allround as standard. But the SWB is too short so you need to either get LWB of do a conversion like mine ie 104"
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/nzdarin/Rainbow-Darin10.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/nzdarin/nwc2.jpg

Mine has a turboed VH45 (280 rwkw) twin shocks, fox bumpstops etc. Still has standard drivetrain inclydig the auto. It did start life with the TD42 and was SWB the same as yours.
If you look at what is being raced in Australia and New Zealand Winch Challenges (ie Out Back Challenge) then that gives you an idea of the potential of the Patrol.
We regulary are doing speeds over 100k's offroad and they are quite capable of it. In the OBC the top guys (in Patrols) are doing well over 160k.

I raced a LWB GU in the desert. Fact is, we only get the limpy 2.8td or the 3.0Di, so there's an engine transplant to be done anyway. I have a 4.3/TH700 combo laying around together with a Marks Adaptors kit etc. This thing will take much more time to build right now since it's currently stripped to the naked frame and this needs some welding done as does the body.
By coincident I got a '93 4x4 Explorer given to me and having the 4.0 already in there this will be the one to build for racing.
The Patrol will more being build towards competitions like the Outback Challenge which have a complete different character than the desert races we do.