run for your lives :)

We have an issue down here in australia where it is almost impossible to find junkyard dan 60's.

You can't find a freakin D60 anywhere. And I mean anywhere.
We basically have diff specialists who work with 4x4's, shipping in 20 or 30 dana60's at a time so they can build them up for us wheelers.

The problem is because of the shipping and all that the cost is crazy!!

I have a 97 TJ and want to run bigger than 35's on the stock drivetrain. Hopefully by the time I am sick of the 36" sx's I will have found some 60's from under a rock somewhere and will swap them in with 38.5's. hehe

My thoughts are to run the super 44 kit which upgrades the rear to 33 spline and 1.4" diameter. Truss the axle and cross fingers. I need a rear locker anyways so cost is going to be minimal to super it.

The dana30 up front is the real issue though and am wondering on if it is even at all worth it to get some warn shafts for it?
It could be trussed heavily as well. any options here?

My plans are to run 36" tyres and keep an eye out for a front axle upgrade along the way somewhere. Hell I might even have to swap in a nissan or toyota front axle as they are a dime a dozen over here. but i really don't want to run them if i can avoid it

If I could swap in 60's believe me I would do it.
Can I get a few ideas on options?
Do you think the axles will hold up to 36 sx's?

thanks.

aussie

I ran a 30 for years in a EFI 350 powered Jeep and never had problems..... I even jumped it a couple times (kinda sketchy) but I left it open. If you lock it (front) you will have problems if you bang thru the rocks, but I think it's a better axle than most will give credit.

My $0.02 .... leave it until it pops (but then I am doing an axle swap now and I never broke it....going wider).

Originally posted by websurfshop
I ran a 30 for years in a EFI 350 powered Jeep and never had problems..... I even jumped it a couple times (kinda sketchy) but I left it open. If you lock it (front) you will have problems if you bang thru the rocks, but I think it's a better axle than most will give credit.

My $0.02 .... leave it until it pops (but then I am doing an axle swap now and I never broke it....going wider).

If you ever put it in 4 wheel drive, it would have broke, when it's not engaged they do last a long time(no locker?). I give a 30 all the credit it's due, none.
Definitely don't waste a dime building a 30, it will still break.


Don't some rover's use the big salisbury axles, which are the same as Dana 60's, right?

i will look into the salisbury diffs.

and of course it needs to be locked, duh.

I see a lot of people running 35's on stock dana30's fully locked and not having any problems with em at all. and I know jimbob or someone is running 38's and never broke and some other dude is running 28" GSA's and broke in his driveway, but I am looking for some sort of general consensus apart from dana30 sucks ass!

thanks for info though and keep it coming.

OK, for general consensus

I've run d30's (a long time ago) and broke 3 shafts, many u-joints and bent the tubes on 3 different housings. All where locked or welded, with 33" and 35" tires. Then went through 2 front 44's with constant u-joint problems(before CTM's came out) running 35" and 38.5" tires. Now uses a built d60(CTMs, d70 stubs,ect) with 42", no problems so far.

I didn't really say that 30's suck ass,,,, but now that you've mention it,,,,,,,,,,, :-)

I've heard the salisbury's are strong.

Why wouldn't you use land cruiser axles?

Originally posted by Taso Stambolis
Why wouldn't you use land cruiser axles?

Well, I thought the majority of them were 1.31" 30 spline which isn't really much of an upgrade from a D30 front, and add to that the fact I then end up with birfields instead of 297x u joints.

Mate - bugger the 30... I know 60's are bloody hard to find, which is why mine are on a boat from the US as we speak...

You could however pick up a reverse D44 for stuff all $$, and jam some CTM's in it. You could find a junk yard reverse D44 for under $500.

Really depends how big you wanna go I guess.

What terrain are you trying to run???

if you want to run rocks with 36's and a locker forget the D30 unless you have CTMs and alloy shafts.

For some illustration of what I mean check in Gen4x4 in the "Finishing for ERoCC thread". We too "rkcrawl"s 9" front w/ 44 outers through some ROUGH stuff. We broke everything :D. He has 36s. I have a HP60 w/ 38s, didn't break a thing :D. Needless to say he's ordering alloy inners, has new alloy outers, and also ordering CTMs today. My HP60 is stock w/ new u-joints. Really sit down and do a cost comparison, also remember with a D30 you risk R&P breakage.

It depends on who you are and how you drive...I'm running 35's on my locked 30, and have had no problems, but I always keep in mind not to get the wheels bound up, or use heavy throttle when the wheels cranked. If you're at a competition level, I'm sure it is junk, but for the recreational wheeler it shoudl hold up. I just carry spare shaft assemblies..

Is scary how small that ring gear is though...

I ran 36" TSL's on a detroited D30 with Moser shafts (D44 shafts machined down for d30).

Nobody would claim it's the smartest or ultimate setup...but I has a heck of a lot of fun with it before finally snapping a shaft and taking out the Detroit when it went.

If D60's are really that hard to find - I say run it with some Warn shafts and have some fun...just be careful with the loud pedal when it's bound up.

On the other hand if Hpd44's are available - you could build one of those to easily handle you 36 and possibly 38 too.

But if the options are d30 buildup and wheel, or not and be stuck moping about for a 60...I say build it and wheel!

Originally posted by BillaVista
I ran 36" TSL's on a detroited D30 with Moser shafts (D44 shafts machined down for d30).

Nobody would claim it's the smartest or ultimate setup...but I has a heck of a lot of fun with it before finally snapping a shaft and taking out the Detroit when it went.

If D60's are really that hard to find - I say run it with some Warn shafts and have some fun...just be careful with the loud pedal when it's bound up.

On the other hand if Hpd44's are available - you could build one of those to easily handle you 36 and possibly 38 too.

But if the options are d30 buildup and wheel, or not and be stuck moping about for a 60...I say build it and wheel!

thats about where it all stands billa, build the 30 and actually get to wheel the rig or wait for a looong time to find a d60 or save the $ to buy a custom one off a shop.

The front 44 might be a little easier to find I suppose. Even a ford 9" but I am not sold on the strength of them.

What is available in the way of alloy axles and extra beef for front 44's?

thanks for the comments...

Mate - a couple of other things to consider...

1. Wheel stud pattern. I am not 100%, but I bet it would be damn hard to find a 5 on 4.5" D44 front to match the TJ rear... of course if you did the super 44 thing then you could switch the rear to 5 on 5.5 and try your luck finding a front reverse D44 with 5 on 5.5. I think most of them are 8 lug though.

2. As above - new wheels required due to the switch in bolt pattern.

3. I have run my D30 with ARB for quite some time on 35's. You know I am not too heavy on the skinny peddle, but it has held up fine so far (with the Warn hub conversion).

4. If you find the right one, you can do a high steer conversion on your D44!

5. Talk to Jumbo - he did the Warn 5 on 5.5 conversion on his front D30, and went with alloy shafts and hub fuses. Ask him how it turned out and what breakage he has had.

6. find some spares, and see if you can break the D30...

Originally posted by PYRO


If you ever put it in 4 wheel drive, it would have broke, when it's not engaged they do last a long time......


....how did you know? The trails on the Big Island were so weak that I never had to put it in 4WD... snicker... snicker.....most of the locals ride donkeys and do em in slippa's

No really PYRO is right and we are at the hardcore rockcrawler POR site, which is "the" place for this kind of good info (shameless plug), a 30 won't last in the rocks that are bigger than your tire..period, but when I went to OZ if was mostly fireroad, dust, sand, and river flood crossings(some pretty good wash outs [didem' sideways in an old toyota and only had a blow out once])....maybe they got some rocks down there.....I know there's a big one out in the middle (I think it's named after an aftermarket locker...Airs something...) but the biggest hazard is the roo's and I am sure if you hit one of them fast enough you could pop a 30.

What would you say to the proposition that the 30 has gone over the rubicon more times than any other axle? It's either the 30 or the 44 hands down. And most of them went over "open" (not as in not engaged, but as in no locker) or only trac-loc. Them was the good old days.....

Read #5 in the Mission Statement (Bible)




-snip-The trails on the Big Island were so weak that I never had to put it in 4WD... snicker... snicker.....-snip-

Trails? We use those to get to the rocks, where the rocks start, there are no trails.
:flipoff2:

When I get to the big Island, I will be glad to toss my 30 in the trash. Until then, they are pretty underrated.

A few experiences to help from a different perspective. We have a fun little group of about 15 of us running everything from older CJ's to 01 TJ's and across the board run the 30. Across the board with a few minor exceptions we run the small Warn hub conversion, Warn inners and with a few exceptions, run the Spicer 297X u-joints. A couple of us run the CTM's. The gear ratios vary from 3:73's to 4:88's.

The other two things we have in common are tire size (35's) and our playground. We practically live in Johnson Valley. At last opportunity resembling anything like a tally of completed trails out there, we are talking well over 150 trips combined. The majority of them done by myself, Garry, one of his friends, and one of mine. Personally, I have 35 trips over them with no breakage other that a stock tie-rod. While I don't claim to be hardcore, we do have a bit of fun on some really fun trails.

Don't let me mislead you into thinking that we have no breakage because we do. It is just minimal and about the last thing we worry about when we go play out there, is the D-30 up front.

Did I also mention that it's pretty difficult to get over those trails without being locked up and in 4 wheel drive?

Gotta agree with Mrblaine here. I saw his group of "friends" in JV in April when Gary broke a CTM in his D30. These boys fully get it with there 30s and from the look of the body damage, sidewalls, etc, they don't baby their jeeps. When I saw the CTM toast but the shafts, carrier, R&P still in good shape it convinced me to wait a while before getting rid of my 30. Get a couple of sets of TJ spares and have fun. You will know when things are about to let go (wheel turned, locked backing up or wheel stuck in an undercut rock trying to climb it).

SeanP

Hey, nice to hear from you Sean. You gonna come back down and play some more when the weather cools down?

Starting around the end of Sept, we will be out there about every other weekend again until the end of April.

edit- Thanks for jogging my memory Sean, I forgot to mention that Garry also runs a Tera60 R in the back because he broke everything else we put back there. The same 30 up front lived through 3 different rear axles and a couple of rebuilds of them and until just recently was chugging right along. He also competed in the first ARCA event in JV last year without breaking it. The rear let go first and put us out halfway through the second day.

mrblaine - i respect your opinion and have seen what you guys like to play on, but only in pictures, but that sounds like a good reason to give the 30 a go.

The majority of the terrain down here is not all rockcrawling. There is a tiny bit of that around but the majority is lots of mud, ruts and rocks all mixed together.

I am thinking that a super 44 kit for the rear and trussed will be cool for 36's. super44 = 1.4", 33 spline.

While the dana30 can recieve a warn axle upgrade and some serious trussing. Is it worth running the warn hub kit as well?
Will they really act as a fuse and save the r&p and locker?
Whats the most cost effective way to build the 30 stronger?


Is there any advantage of running 4.56 gears compared to 4.88.
Is either one of them stronger than the other?

Then I can get out there and wheel and sell off the 30 as soon as I can find something better to put in the front.

Forgot to mention I will run a front ARB to try and lessen the stress on the front in turns and when it is not needed.

Opinions on that plan apart from 60's, 60's, 60's....

:flipoff2:

Originally posted by aussietj
mrblaine - i respect your opinion and have seen what you guys like to play on, but only in pictures, but that sounds like a good reason to give the 30 a go.

The majority of the terrain down here is not all rockcrawling. There is a tiny bit of that around but the majority is lots of mud, ruts and rocks all mixed together.

This is where I get in trouble. I don't do mud. I have just enough experience with it to have developed a very intense hatred for it. I do get the impression that it takes a bit more wheelspin to play often in it and that is the D-30's big weakness. You can crawl them all day long and play pretty hard. I am thinking that they would not like the tirespeed and grabbing stuff at the same time. Talk to me about lots of big rocks and I can come up with a pretty fair assessment, toss mud into it and I get lost quickly.

I am thinking that a super 44 kit for the rear and trussed will be cool for 36's. super44 = 1.4", 33 spline.

While the dana30 can recieve a warn axle upgrade and some serious trussing. Is it worth running the warn hub kit as well?
Will they really act as a fuse and save the r&p and locker?
Whats the most cost effective way to build the 30 stronger?

I have no experience with the super 44.

Last I checked, you could only upgrade the inners to Warn without the hub conversion. I know there are rumors of stuff soon to be for sale, but as of yet, I can only lay my hands on one set of alloy stock replacements that use the unit bearing and they are pricey.

I can't help much with the cost effective part. I know what's cost effective for me. I wanted to go wheeling so I spent the cash on the hub conversion and never looked back. When I started going to JV in was in the middle of the season out there and I could either build something and miss some good wheeling or buy the conversion, pop it in on a thursday evening and hit the trail on Friday afternoon. That was more important to me than whether or not I was making a cost effective decision. I have not regretted one cent of the money spent.


Is there any advantage of running 4.56 gears compared to 4.88.
Is either one of them stronger than the other?

I hear rumors the same as everyone else does. I have never seen a set of broken D-30 4:88's. I have a friend on the net that has asked repeatedly for pics or firsthand experience and has yet to have anyone come forth. That said, if I needed them, I would run them until they no longer worked and do something better.

Then I can get out there and wheel and sell off the 30 as soon as I can find something better to put in the front.

Forgot to mention I will run a front ARB to try and lessen the stress on the front in turns and when it is not needed.

Opinions on that plan apart from 60's, 60's, 60's....

:flipoff2:

We run pretty much Detroits and ARB's in the 30 out there. Neither one seems to have too much of an advantage. Once you start playing out in JV, you pretty much have to have all your little installation bugs worked out, your maintenance done, and your wits about you.

One other thing, none of us run trussed anythings out there.

The 30's are like 231 t-cases. You put a conversion in both of them and run them until they break. Anything fancier and you need to start looking at other options.

I have my rig up on 37 MT/R's, HP 44 and 9", and still run the same t-case that came stock. The 231 is also highly underrated, but that's a whole different discussion.

Hmm. Still running the d30 here. Warn 5x5.5 conversion, Warn inners and outers, 4.56, ARB, Atlas 4.3, 37" Goodyears. One broken joint in 4 years is all. (replaced stock control arm brackets)

7 or 8 trips through Rubicon and Fordyce, some local stuff that clowns both of those trails and some E. WA wheelin. Guess I should get worried now.

Seriously though, I am not by any means defending the strength of the d30. It has its obvious weaknesses. It mostly comes down to driving style.

On the bolt pattern issue:

If you end up with 5x5.5 up front, whether from a Warn hub conversion, a homebrew version like mine, or a D44 sawp, it's not the end of the world.

When I ran like this, I simply carried a 5x5.5 spare, and a single adapter to convert 5x4.5 to 5x5.5. That way, If I needed the spare on the rear, I just popped the 1" thick adapter on first.

You can read all about my homebrew D44/d30 Hybrid hub conversion thingey at:

http://www.rightcoastcrawler.com/billaVista/Hybrid_Axle/HybridAxle.htm

One of the custom inner Moser shafts ended up being the weak point...if I was doing it again, I would either build a RCD44 to start, or do some more work with the tube lengths allowing me to run a stock d30 spline 297 joint inner axle, meaning junkyard spares and available Warn shafts.

Summary - beef the 30 and wheel, if you're having fun, it's much easier to be patient waiting for that D60 deal!

Here's my D30/D44 in action:

http://www.rightcoastcrawler.com/billaVista/Action/action.htm

on the bolt pattern:

won't matter anyway if I go for a super 44 kit as they are drilled for both 5 on 4.5 and 5 on 5.5 by the looks of things.

http://www.drivetraindirect.com/html2/super44review2.html

http://www.drivetraindirect.com/images/super44flange.jpg

so, is there any other advice out there on the best way to this?
more info on super44 if anyone runs it, more info on 4.88 v's 4.56 etc.

just trying to work out all available options.
The help has been great:D

Not sure if I would go lower than 4.56 in the 30...the 4.56 pinion is pretty small as it is.

I do know the Spicer 4.56 gears can withstand a shaft and Detroit breakin and remain unscathed...which is good. Would the 4.88? I dunno?