building a truck with an expedition camper in mind

[JESSE_at_TLT]

I just bought a 10ft Alaskan Camper (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=690929) that I'm planning to carry on the back of a cummins quad-cab AND on top of a semi-dedicated trailer so I can haul the camper behind some of our smaller trucks.

So talking about vehicles, I want to optimize the wheelbase and suspension and flatbed to provide maximum flexibility. This is not going to be a dedicated camper hauler. It's a 2001 Dodge Ram quad cab, HO cummins/6spd, 4wd, SRW with a short-box. The basic plan is to build a lower-budget version of something like this HD2500 (http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/vehicles/20/?PHPSESSID=adf628ab91b78ea127a8e9de199cf911), except that it will have a basic utilitarian flatbed that we can kit-out to suit whatever we're going to be doing with it. So when it comes down to how we should build it, there are a lot of things to consider. I've got some pretty clear ideas about what I want to build, but I'd appreciate any helpful input.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

1) wheelbase & weight distribution
I guess the wheelbase compromise is the first thing to discuss. I think the quad-cab short bed wheelbase is around 140" and the long bed is about 160". It would be helpful to know what type of weight distribution (percentages) I can get away with (safely) when the truck is loaded down, so we can keep the wheelbase as short as possible. What are the limits I should try to stay within? The mfg lists the dry weight at 1,550lbs and the wet weight at 1,860. So even overloadeded, the weight over the back axle should be under 2,500lbs. The only other thing to mention is that we'll probably be pulling an enclosed dirt bike trailer most of the time when the camper is on the truck.

2) suspension
I'm pretty sure that we'll be working with a set of longer-travel, softer (than stock) Deaver springs in the rear. The spring-packs will probably be tuned for lighter loads and all-around performance, then we'll run airbags to assist with heavier loads. I don't know whether we'll mount them 1:1 and compromise on the wheel-travel, or get creative and mount the bags on links or like bump-stops (not attached to the axle) or something. I also haven't decided whether we'll keep the shocks under the bed and (again compromising on the suspension) or mount the shocks upright outside the framerails and make the upper mounts part of some low-profile wheel-wells/utility box sides that would run down the sides of the bed. Haven't thought much about anti-swaybars yet.

3) flatbed design
It's a daily driver and we want to keep it small(er) and relatively stripped-down most of the time. It will spend most of it's life around town and hauling dirt bikes and gear in the bed, so that doesn't require much except for some wheel-chocks (http://www.pingelonline.com/wheel_chocks.htm), tie-down points, and maybe a locker box for gear. At the other end of the spectrum, it needs to be able to handle a 2000lb, 10ft camper. Worlds collide.

I'd prefer to keep the framerails and main bed short (less than 8-8.5ft), so I've been thinking about different ways to plug a bed/frame extension into the chassis. I'd like to see what type of receivers and mounting solutions other people have come up with. I remember the Scorpion had a cool little flatbed extension that I think just plugged into two 2" receivers.

The Dodge framerails are so narrow that I can't even come close to fitting a 35" spare tire under the bed. I'd really like to be able to mount the spare between the framerails, but I don't know if I really feel like cutting the whole back half of the truck off. Some type of swingaway is probably a more sensible option.

4) storage
Currently, the plan is to make some modular storage boxes that will run the length of the bed on the outside edges, effectively turning the flatbed into more of a utility bed. If we maintain at least 4ft of open space between them and don't make them higher than the stock bed, we won't have any fit problems with the camper. There will be some more storage space under the bed in front/behind the wheelwells. Need to carry fuel, water, propane, etc.

[Elwenil]

1) This should answer some of your questions:

http://dodgeram.info/2001/dimensions.html

You didn't specify, but since the truck is a CTD and a Quadcab, then it would have to be a 2500 and I am going to assume it's a 4x4. Since your payload with the shortbed is only 3,370 lbs, you will have to be careful of the weight of the flatbed design as well as the gear you will be carrying. The main issue is that you will be putting a camper designed for a longbed on a shortbed chassis. The difference in wheelbase is only 16", but that is a lot when adding weight hanging off the back. The further the weight is behind the axle, the more leverage it has on the chassis, just like you using a cheater bar. In essence, the axle will see the actual weight as more than it really is. Also, some of those campers mount some of the heating and cooling equipment in the back and other heavy components that can compound the problem. Like I've said before, moving the axle back and extending the end of the frame could put you in the same boat of a longbed though the stock payload of the longbed truck is 390 lbs LESS than the shortbed.

2) If you lighten the springs in the rear, you can toss out all the weight capacity of the stock truck. As it is, you are at risk of overloading the truck. If you go with lighter springs, chances are you will so airbags will pretty much be a must. Keep in mind that many people that haul these trailers (my uncle used one for years) normally add airbags to the stock suspension to better handle the weight.

3) On the flatbed, I'd go light. You already have a frame for the truck, so the bed really doesn't need a full heavy frame under it. Tying it all together will save some weight, but will also stiffen the frame somewhat and could cause stress in odd places. Consider using a wood floor or some other lighter material. The camper's load will be spread out over the assorted crossmembers of the bed on it's own, so a really heavy floor isn't needed. Basically all you need is a floor that will support the bikes and so forth you haul at other times. Plus wood is nice because you don't have to paint it all the time. I will never again own a trailer with a steel floor. They are heavy and need painted all the time.

If you move the axle back to longbed specs, you can then add a bed extension to get the regular longbed length. I don't know if I would try for a removable extension since all the assorted mounting would probably add a lot of unneeded weight. I have seen a flatbed with a dovetail that would fold up and lock into place level with the bed, but again, a lot of weight. It was neat in that he used it as a ramp to load golf carts.

4) As far as storage, there are many different under-bed boxes of assorted lengths and sizes and quality that can be mounted up. They are not cheap though and usually cost a bit more than I honestly think they are worth. I have never found a worthy substitute for them though. You might check with a truck service body installer to see if they have any used boxes for less.

These are just my ideas and suggestions. I'm sure someone on here will call them crap, but your project is a little similar to the off road wrecker/recovery vehicle I was building and musing about at one time and these are some of the things I pondered. Anyway, it's just my .02

[crashnzuk]

I think whether you want to or not, you are gonna need your wheelbase to be that of a longbed or a scosche longer. I have a 9.5' pop-up on my longbed 91 and it wants to sit a little tail low with the camper on. It would be a penny racer with a shorter wheelbase. Camper weight distribution will be key in getting the WB as short as possible. I like the idea of a flatbed extension though. You could leave it off when not needed.
Travis..

[WILLD420]

I worked this idea around for a year or two and finally got rid of my camper and went with a 5th wheel. I don't have access to CAD so you'll have to use your imagination.

With a flatbed, the dodge frame has enough length behind the rear springs to set up a pretty stout removeable extension. I told you about my idea for a tag axle mounted on airbags. If you didn't like that, then I also thought about just making a small trailer with about a 4 foot tongue and running an 8 lug axle on that with a sort of modified weight distributing hitch to help hold up the rear of the truck. If you've ever seen one of the dolly's they have now for using a gooseneck or 5th wheel trailer behind an suv, then it's the same idea. The only time you will have issues is when you turn sharply and the trailer hitch will try to lift one side of the truck rather than holding the whole rear of the truck up.

That's why I kept going back to the tag axle idea and a removeable frame section/slide in rack for the camper to sit on. I even contemplated getting a d-44 8 lug and cutting the pumpkin out so the tag axle could have turning wheels to eliminate the rear pushing the front. I don't really see the rear axle pushing the front end around too much since 6x6 trucks don't really have too much issue with that unless they are heavily loaded and pushing the front tires on ice/mud.

I like the air-bag suspension on the tag since you can lift/lower the rear as much as you wanted and not worry about having too much tongue weight from pulling a trailer. The big deal is the leverage. I put my camper in the back of the dodge and drove it around a little. Wasn't too bad on the straight and narrow, but throw in a curve and the thing was all over the road. There was just too much weight on the back end, and every little bump wanted to pull the front tires off the ground.

If you set the camper and the frame up right, it could have regular camper hydraulic/electric jacks on the front. If all your supplies and parts fit into the rack for the camper, when you unloaded the camper all your stuff would go with it and save on weight when you were out running the trails or daily driving. Then when you wanted to go out on your expedition, you just slide it all on and hook it up. No loading and unloading of stuff and no heavy boxes hanging down under the flatbed to screw up your clearance.

BTW I priced out those toolboxes new and used. They still were running about $200 each after shipping, sometimes a lot more than that. FWIW you can build them pretty easy, the latches are pretty easy to find and I'm sure you could build one to suit better than buying one if you had the time.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

No, I think your idea (from this thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=690929)) is pretty solid.

Tag axle? I thought about a similar setup when I had an 11.5ft cabover. My idea was to use a flatbed modular design, then make the camper sit on rails that would be attached to a tag axle mounted to the rear of the truck. Using an air-ride suspension, I figured I could get off-road as much as I wanted to, then park the camper using a set of jacks on the front of the rail setup. Jack up the camper, disconnect the mounts and drive off leaving the camper and the tag axle all in one piece parked at camp. Then wheel it and come back later. You still get your shortbed handling and wheeling ability and you get extra load carrying ability with the possiblilty of pulling a trailer from the tag axle frame.

If you can build a custom suspension, you should have no trouble imagining what I'm describing.
For all the extra work, I think that would be pretty awesome in the end. Especially because we could set the rear axle up with bags to bear most of the camper-load, so we could make the suspension for the first rear axle nice and plush. I need to look at the truck (won't be here until next Tuesday) to see how we might be able to build-off the stock frame as far as the flatbed, bed extension and second axle. Thanks again for the suggestion.

[WILLD420]

No problem. Just thought I'd pass along an idea that I never had time to make work the way I wanted to.

Keep us up to date, I'd like to see the pics.