First let me state that no one but a non competitor (Bob Roggy, competion marshall) has or will run the competition site.

quick list of vehicle requirements:
1. 35" or better tires
2. cage or hard top
3. winch
4. seat belts
5. coolant recovery system
6. fire ext.
7. a big case of attitude
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

one other thing that I posted in an earlier thread, you'll want to bring a high lift, not mandatory but it will come in useful.

Rich, what's the deal with spectators? Come one come all or what?

Thanx for any info you can provide. <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

Yes spectators are welcome, there will be a enterance fee per vehicle. probably $10.00 per, this is to off set the costs of the competition; insurance, judges expenses, fees, etc.. this is the charge for an ARCA event, and we will be giving you more than a just rock crawling competition. Also a portion of the proceeds will be donated to local land use groups such as friends of the rubicon (fotr). Most competitions pay for these items straight out of the monies raised by the competition entry fees, but were paying out 100%, which makes a larger purse, so better competition.... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
Besides how many times has there been a full
blown competition around these parts. And you don't have to travel to Utah, New Mexico, Johnson Valley, etc....it right here in your back yard..... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Rich Klein
CalROCS
<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: Big Rich ]

being as this is a 2 day event will there be camping allowed? hookups? SAT. Night party? vendors? concessions?

Yeah on all accounts, camping w/full hook ups will be available form the campground host, fees have yet to be determined, I'm trying to get all a discounted price. there is also room for non hook up camping, there are flush toilets all around the resort, Bar and restraut on site, DJ music for BBQ and party on Sat. night, swap meet, vendors midway, guided trail rides, 4x4 show/shine,
ramp for travel indexing, swiming, fishing, etc........
Rich Klein
CalROCS
<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Big Rich:
<STRONG>Yes spectators are welcome, there will be a enterance fee per vehicle. probably $10.00 per, this is to off set the costs of the competition....

Rich Klein
CalROCS
<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: Big Rich ]</STRONG>


Sorry to see that, I would have assumed for this first time event at this location it would have been in your best interest to attract spectators with no charge to watch.
<IMG SRC="smilies/idea.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Ant:
<STRONG>
Sorry to see that, I would have assumed for this first time event at this location it would have been in your best interest to attract spectators with no charge to watch.
<IMG SRC="smilies/idea.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

ANT Ya Cheap BASTAHHHD!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Support the sport!! 10 bucks is nothing to help pay for it.

Originally posted by Big Rich:
<STRONG>Most competitions pay for these items straight out of the monies raised by the competition entry fees, but were paying out 100%, which makes a larger purse, so better competition.... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> </STRONG>

Here, here! Glad to see you rock crawlers gettin' with the program. In mud racing, we've been paying 100% or 100%PLUS for years. Spectators are your source of income, the competitors are the source of entertainment <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

TEX

Originally posted by Ant:
<STRONG>
Sorry to see that, I would have assumed for this first time event at this location it would have been in your best interest to attract spectators with no charge to watch.
<IMG SRC="smilies/idea.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Geez, put the crowbar in your wallet already <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

TEX

Rich,
How do I reserve full hook up spots.

sheesh Ant, $10 isn't anything, just imagine the price of gas to get to say, Cruces or J.V. etc...
<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: Whitewater ]

Your missing the point, don't take my words out of context. I was just pointing out that there might be a better turn out if spectating was free.

Obviosly I'm out of the loop, but when and where is this event, sounds fun. Hope I can save the ten bucks in time <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> .

For information on the Put-up or Shut-up Shoot-out please check out... www.calrocs.com (http://www.calrocs.com) and/or www.4x4wire.com (http://www.4x4wire.com)

As far as having free admission, Yes the turn out might be larger but then we would not be able to have an event to turn out for...the cost involved with putting on event such as this is steep...the money for Bob Hazel's events comes from the competitors entry fees, just do the math...womens event this weekend in farmington...$350.00 per team x 50 teams =
$17850.00, purse only pays top 3 teams total of $4000.00, thats $13850.00 for Sports in the Rough to put on the show, Oh what show?, just the competition, no other activities.
Of course, Bob Hazel attracts big name sponsors because he has been doing this for years. We have not yet recieve any sponsor commitments, I hope we do so we can continue to find venues and put on the planned series for next year. I could go on about it for ever, but I think you get the idea. This not a full time business for like it is for Hazel, I own a repair shop (part time evenings early mornings) and manage a parts store fulltime. I wish I could do this full time....
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
Rich Klein
CalROCS
<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

What would be the best day to go, Day one or Day two?
Is it like top fuel where the finals are on Sunday, or will it take both days for everybody to compete?
thanks

Friday will be a check in tech day for competitors, kinda get set up and relax, have fun....Sat. will be an elimination day, more action, everyone battling for one of the top ten spots, should lead to great action. Sunday will be the finals, everyone at least gets a return on their investment, but who'll get the payout. Both days promise to have great action and lots of excitement and strategy. more going on during the day and evening on Sat.. I'd try and make both days, there will be camping available.
Rich Klein
CAlROCS

Big Rich now I know whats wrong w/you
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

YOUR A PARTS GUY <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

I cant wait to PARTY <IMG SRC="smilies/blender.gif" border="0"> CalROCS style COME AWNNNNNNN

Ok, Frosty I'll take that blow the gut...but the first thing I mentioned was WRENCH. This is what I'd perfer to be doing full time and working parts part time, but oh well.. got to get the shop to pay for itself first....
and CalROCS will party come awn...... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Big Rich:
<STRONG>

As far as having free admission, Yes the turn out might be larger but then we would not be able to have an event to turn out for...</STRONG>


Precisely. Let's face it, spectators are a PITA. Many will be drunk, they'll try to put themselves in harm's way, they'll boo at controversial judgements, & generally make a nuicance of themselves. Why let them in free? What benefit would it be to have a large crowd if none of them pay? <STRONG>

the cost involved with putting on event such as this is steep...the money for Bob Hazel's events comes from the competitors entry fees, just do the math...womens event this weekend in farmington...$350.00 per team x 50 teams =
$17850.00, purse only pays top 3 teams total of $4000.00, thats $13850.00 for Sports in the Rough to put on the show, Oh what show?, just the competition, no other activities.
Of course, Bob Hazel attracts big name sponsors because he has been doing this for years. </STRONG>

And here we have Hazel sucking money from the competitors, from spectators, and from sponsors. CalRocks only has the spectators admissions fees to cover their costs - and hopefully some sponsorship $$$ in the future. You guys should be applauded for not sticking it to the competitors like some other folks do (even though it's entirely unnecessary to do so).

<STRONG> I wish I could do this full time....
</STRONG>

Keep putting on quality events where the spectators are given a good show & are charged a reasonable admissions fee, and keep treating the competitors with respect, and maybe you'll get there. That's what I'm trying to do with mud.

TEX

10 Bucks, for cheap entertainment, COME AWN, a haircut is now $14, just put off the trim for another month to pay for the entrance. Is that 10 per day, or 10 dollar one time, and are camping sites extra. Will there be chance to wheel in non competition areas, during non-event times? I.E. maybe a short trail run, I'd be willing to pay an extra $10 to wheel a trail that is normally accessible.

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Thanks Tex, This being the first real organised event of it's type in northern California, I knew some groups would not understand what I'm trying accomplish in the long run. I know Ant means will in his suggestion and is not really a tightass <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> He's just trying to help. But if I was to have free admission somehow, when next event rolled around everyone would expect it to be free again. Then I'd lose spectators, because they'd think I was trying to gouge them, It happened when ARCA started to charge after the first ones where free. The prices for admission may change after this event, it all depends on the bottom line. I don't expect to make bank, I'd just like them to pay for themselves, cover costs and help with getting the next one started. Besides I know most of use are broke because we are always trying to fix our $#!t or pay for the next upgrade. Hell my trail rig has not seen a trail in like allmost two years.
Rich Klein
CalROCS

at the one and only ARCA event I watched in
Phoenix out by Indian Junction, there was
no fee to watch. In fact, I'm not sure they
could have charged you a fee even if they wanted to. It's held on PUBLIC PROPERTY...
open to all phases of sports. hunting, sightseeing, artifact collecting, etc.
I can only imagine some clown trying to collect a "fee" for this area with a hunter
just trying to get to his hunting spot...

Now the calroc's event is different. This
is held on PRIVATE PROPERTY. totally different all together...

Hey Ant, we could just pile like 10 guys in
SBB to go thru the fee-gate... your cost would only be $1.00...(And I know you'll spend a dollar to get into pickNpull...lol.

You gonna go???????

Originally posted by Big Rich:
<STRONG>But if I was to have free admission somehow, when next event rolled around everyone would expect it to be free again. Then I'd lose spectators, because they'd think I was trying to gouge them, </STRONG>

Excellent point & a truely valid one. Coming from my mud racing background I can tell you that any time you increase the admissions fee, some spectators just won't understand. And most will expect to see something "extra" for their money. That's especially true if it starts out as a free event & then you charge the next time around.

BTW, around here, it's generally accepted that $8 for each adult & $4 for each kid is a reasonable admissions fee for a standard event like a mud race. To go to $10 per adult, we have to add something like monster trucks to the show.


TEX

Frosty and I laugh <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Cant go wrong with a Tin Bender & Pirate Team rig Come Awn!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Big Rich:
<STRONG> I know Ant is not really a tightass <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> CalROCS</STRONG>

Naw Man, He IS really a tightass!!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Sherpa:
<STRONG>
Hey Ant, we could just pile like 10 guys in
SBB to go thru the fee-gate... your cost would only be $1.00...(And I know you'll spend a dollar to get into pickNpull...lol.

You gonna go???????</STRONG>

<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> Man you guys are harsh!! I'll let you all know I'm gonna be a spotter for one of the competitiors, I was just trying to throw out and idea to boost the spectating. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

This event would be hella cheaper for Rich to run if he *DIDN'T* allow spectators... and since it is on private property, he could do exactly that.

Spectatotors require crowd control, barriers, rest rooms, and worst of all, from a checkbook perspectibe -- INSURANCE. It ain't cheap to insure this type of event, and it is even a little hard to find a carrier who'll write the coverage!

The first 200 people in the gate will likely be paying *just* for the insurance.... I dunno how many more it will take to afford the BBQ.

Great work, Rich!

Randii

Originally posted by Ant:
<STRONG> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> Man you guys are harsh!! I'll let you all know I'm gonna be a spotter for one of the competitiors, I was just trying to throw out and idea to boost the spectating. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Ant,

mongo today??????? call Sherp at work...

Originally posted by Patman:
<STRONG>Naw Man, He IS really a tightass!!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Ok web-wheeler.... I'll be there competiting, where will you be?!?!
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/srcforum/YaBBImages/044.gif
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/srcforum/YaBBImages/062.gif
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/srcforum/YaBBImages/044.gif
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/srcforum/YaBBImages/062.gif

[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: Ant ]

Originally posted by UGET IT:
<STRONG>Frosty and I laugh <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Cant go wrong with a Tin Bender & Pirate Team rig Come Awn!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Hahaha, Team "Pie-Tin", I love it. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by H8monday:
<STRONG>Hahaha, Team "Pie-Tin", I love it. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

LOL never thought of that!

Originally posted by Ant:
<STRONG>Ok web-wheeler.... I'll be there competiting, where will you be?!?![ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: Ant ]</STRONG>

Super Big Breadboxofacage will be competing? Make sure there isn't going to be any helicopter coverage, you might get an unplanned haircut!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

And how the hell are you going to pry the entry fee out of your wallet, when the $10 bucks to watch, has your panty's all bunched?? <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by UGET IT:
<STRONG>LOL never thought of that!</STRONG>

Yeah, just think, a quick trip to Marie Calenders, could net you some really tasty treats, and some great team hats(after the pies are eaten). Ill see if I cant put something together for you guys <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">, you know, just a little donation to the team effort, hahaha <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Promise to those who show up....I will have a trail ride during the CalROCS event at lake amador. expect something on the easy side so that more can experience the area. On the Moab scale a 3 plus. yes the hubs will have to be locked but no it won't include a sluice box. I think we can include a hill climb, its very short but very steep. see pic's on www.4x4wire.com (http://www.4x4wire.com) the face is even concrete, but I think it can't be done, maybe we can do a fundraiser 50/50 pot for those that want to try, winner(s) take half. FOTR might like a share of the pot, come awn.......

Originally posted by Big Rich:
<STRONG>Promise to those who show up....I will have a trail ride during the CalROCS event at lake amador. expect something on the easy side so that more can experience the area. On the Moab scale a 3 plus. yes the hubs will have to be locked but no it won't include a sluice box. I think we can include a hill climb, its very short but very steep. see pic's on www.4x4wire.com (http://www.4x4wire.com) the face is even concrete, but I think it can't be done, maybe we can do a fundraiser 50/50 pot for those that want to try, winner(s) take half. FOTR might like a share of the pot, come awn.......</STRONG>

Nice Work!!! Cant wait for this event!

<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">

only think I don't like is spectator fees HAVE to be across the board and I don't see that as physically possible. Been to 4 events now and I found out they all had fees but I never even saw the guy collecting money (except that one I took a shortcut around). If you give them something like I dunno - but a little packet, atleast it seems like ya get something.

Anyway, can't wait! Really cool on the ride too - is the before or after the event or ?

sounds like fun. wheres that lake thingy? im in tulare county any where near me? or have another event planned around here? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Brandon:
<STRONG>only think I don't like is spectator fees HAVE to be across the board and I don't see that as physically possible. </STRONG>

Since this event is on private property, they'll likely have just one or two ways in & out, with admission collected at those points. At least, that's how I'd do it.


TEX

Lake Amador is located in Amador county, between the towns of Ione and Jackson. It's about 30 mins south east of Sacramento. It is a pirvate lake and resort so yes there is a gated entrance, so no going around this time. I'm sure once everyone who comes to watch this event and sees the production and the quality of the show, they'll see that it was $10.00 well spent.
Thanks
Rich Klein
CalROCS

Rich, are you seting it up using ARCA rules as far as driving goes. Or do you still have to come up with that?

As far as scoreing the event yes we are using ARCA rules. as far as vehicle spec's, kinda. As far as safety reg's pretty much yes. But in the next 2 weeks some of this may change according to the insurance company and there representitive.
Rcih Klein
CalROCS
<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

Thanks.

Can you put ski boats in on Lake Almanor? and how far is the lake from the comp?

Can you put ski boats in on Lake Almanor? and how far is the lake from the comp?Dunno about Almanor (that's a ways north), but Amador does not allow ski boats. Fishing boats yes, ski boats, no.

The lake is within a quarter of a mile of the competition area.

Randii

how can we go about reserving a camp site now??

how can we go about reserving a camp site now??

There's full contact information for Lake Amador down at the bottom of the 4x4Wire Press Release: http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/news/CalROCS/091101.htm

Randii