What would be a good beginner truck to mud race in?

What I mean by beginner is cheap, yet still strong.

I don't care much about looks...

Thanks!

3/4 ton chevy from 73-87. Solid axles, cheap to work on, relatively strong. Lots of parts availability.

Is a long bed better than a short bed? Or the other way around? or is there no significant difference?

How about between a truck or a blazer/suv?

Thanks soo much for the fast responce!

73-87 LWB 3/4 ton Chevy or GMC, or 77-79 1/2 or 3/4 ton Ford. Either are great trucks, I prefer the Ford 1/2 tons.

What are some of the most common modifications made to mudding trucks (old Chevies in particular)?

I am trying to build this mud truck for as cheap as possible, so I was thinking of welding the front and rear instead of lockers.. Any other ideas?

Thanks!

Yes, welding the front and rear will keep it cheap as well as perform well. Cut out your fenders to clear bigger tires. It will save you money because you won't need to run much of a lift.

Hey check out extreme 4x4 on spike they are building a chevy mud truck, just to help you out with some ideas.

From what I see, LWB has its advantages. The Chevies mentioned above can be had for the best prices around me. Diff.welding is a good option for a bogger. Placing the radiator in the bed to keep it as clean as possible is probably a good idea, as is a snorkle into the cab or somewhere else to keep water out of the intake. This also goes for the exhuast: exit it as high as possible.

Two schools of thought:

Really tall thinnish tires to dig through the mud and bite, or really wide tires and tons of wheel-speed to skim over the top. The heavier rigs go toward tall tires, naturally.

Sealing the wires with a spray-on waterproof coating will prevent electrical problems down the road.

Arround my area I have noticed that the cheaper trucks just toss a huge carb and cam on what ever they have and call it good engine wise. Not the best way to do things but it seems to work ok.

Really tall thinnish tires to dig through the mud and bite, or really wide tires and tons of wheel-speed to skim over the top. The heavier rigs go toward tall tires, naturally.

I'm not an expert on mud, but a recurring thing I see, is that smaller rigs with less power do better on a skinny tire (12.50 or narrower). The only ones I see on really wide tires are those running a tire that's also quite tall (49" Michelins and such) or those on paddles with a TON of power to turn them. It would seem to me that skimming over the top would not be an advantage if the course is a mud race with turns rather than a mud drag

From what I see, LWB has its advantages.

LWB= Long wheel base... correct?

If so, what do you think are its advantages. The only thing I see it doing is adding weight...

Thanks to everyone that has helped me so far!

I'm not an expert on mud, but a recurring thing I see, is that smaller rigs with less power do better on a skinny tire (12.50 or narrower). The only ones I see on really wide tires are those running a tire that's also quite tall (49" Michelins and such) or those on paddles with a TON of power to turn them. It would seem to me that skimming over the top would not be an advantage if the course is a mud race with turns rather than a mud drag

Here is a good technical write-up on the impact of tire width vs. traction:

http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html

all the kids at my school run 73-87 chevy trucks no lift no fenders they run a snorkle into the glove box and put the radiator in the bed. weld the axles. keep it pinned and hope for the best. dont worry about the engine until you need to

Assuming we're talking mud BOGS, my choices for the lowest class would be in order:

1) '72-'75 CJ5 with a 304
2) Early Bronco with a 302
3) Scout with a 345
4) '78-'79 Bronco with a 400
5) 'Blazer/Jimmy with a 400 (350 if you can't locate a 400)
6) Half-ton shortbed

Skip the 3/4 tons & skip the longbeds. You're likely to be limited to a 33" tire in the bottom class & the 3/4 ton will get KILLED on ground clearance (same goes for the 36" class BTW). You really need a minimum of 38.5's to be able to get away with a 14-bolt rear.

Longbed just adds unnecessary bulk & does not transfer weight to the rear tires very well. I've known several guys who's only off-season modification was to take apart their longbed & put all their stuff under a shortbed and they ALL got significantly faster in doing so.

Ideally, you'll have an auto tranny, though not a HUGE deal in the 33" bog class (the 304 CJ is still king even with a stick). If you're running mud drags, an auto tranny is absolutely mandatory. Plus, in drags weight and ground clearance aren't as much of a factory. The shallower it is, the better the full-size trucks do, at least in the entry-level classes. Anything above Super Stock & you're definitely going to want a mini-truck/Jeep.

What's the tire limit for your class 1 in your area? I can help more if I know more about the rules.


TEX

Thanks for that info. It is VERY helpful!

Will I have to re-gear for mud bogs?

Now how about some 4/6 bangers?

Im looking at a pre-1985 toyota.

Any other suggestions?

I will most likely be attending this: http://www.cj-jeep.com/Events/4x4-shows-2008/April%202008/april2008lead.htm

Mud Bog Requirements are about 2/5 down the page.

Thanks!

I actually have a 1980 Toyota pickup for my personal mud racer, but I've also swapped in a V8 & that puts me up a class or two from the bottom (depending on rules). If you can run against other 4 cylinder trucks, you could probably do okay with one of those. Most places around here don't have a 4&6 cylinder class though, so that would be a real disadvantage in my area. The tiny axles work in my favor though as I have better ground clearance than the full-size trucks, especially the 3/4 & 1-tons. My truck is about 340HP and I routinely spank guys will well in excess of 500HP just on the ground clearance issue.

I would NOT run Boggers with a 4-cylinder. TSL's would be your best bet. They self-clean at VERY low speeds & don't require as much power to turn. 34X9.50's work very well on a Toyota, although our local stock class cuts off at 33". Not sure what other sort of events you left-coast guys would have aside from the one you listed.

Typically the longer wheelbase trucks do tend to be better in the mud. Reason I'm saying this is say when your front tires go in ruts, well by the time your rear tires enter the ruts, your fronts are out, able to pull you through, while the rears push when just the front is in. This way your not completely high centered with both axles. Although I do like my swb trucks. But thats just me.

The toyotas are narrow enough that they don't get in the ruts. As shown by this video:http://www.pnw4x4s.com/forum/index.php?topic=7.0


As you can also see the longer wheelbase trucks are doing better than the swb trucks.

Any other recommendations?

Remember, I am trying to get an EXTREMELY cheap 4x4 truck/suv, throw some 33" tires on it, weld the diffs, and go have fun.

While a jeep would be nice, I need something cheaper.

My friend and I are starting to save our money for this project, but the money is coming slowly... very slowly.

Any ideas will be appreciated!

Thanks!

Like stated before. 73 up to 87 chevy trucks. Easy to find. Cheap to build and fix in case something breaks. Parts are plentifull. Half ton axles are big enough to handle 33's. I just built a beater with a heater, cost me three hundred for rolling shell, trans an tcase. I put in my motor and there you go.

later
jenks

http://www.photobyjohn.com/images/2008/20080705/3/images/page224.html

http://www.photobyjohn.com/images/2008/20080621/4/images/page229.html

Well...

I just found out that my great uncle has a 72 (i think) international scout that hes thinking of getting rid of.

It needs a new clutch (its a manual) and some TLC.

The state of california is willing to pay him $800 to take it away and crush it lol. (GAS HOG/SMOGGGGG)

He said he might be willing to practically give it to us!

Is there anything in particular that I should know about these trucks?

Thanks!

Is there anything in particular that I should know about these trucks?

Thanks!
They're heavy, not a desireable trait in the mud, but with enough power that can be overcome. What engine does it have?

1) '72-'75 CJ5 with a 304
2) Early Bronco with a 302
3) Scout with a 345
4) '78-'79 Bronco with a 400
5) 'Blazer/Jimmy with a 400 (350 if you can't locate a 400)
6) Half-ton shortbed


TEX, why did you put a Scout as #3? Why do you think it deserves that spot?

Relatively light for something that comes with a V8 from the factory. 44 front & rear provides decent ground clearance AND decent durability. Granted, an IH engine weighs as much as a big-block, but the VEHICLE does not weigh as much as a full-size truck.

We have a guy with a 440-powered Scout racing with us around here & his engine is probably equal to the 454-powered 1-tons 2 other guys have. All 3 run 38.5 Boggers in Super Stock class & the Scout kicks the crap out of the two full-size trucks.

From what Ive read, the stock international Scout engines have a low red line, and are meant more for slow crawling instead of mudding... Should I worry about that? (I dont have the time/money for an entire engine swap...I also will be stuck with a manual for some time) Would I have to re-gear?

it will mainly be a "just for fun" racer, but I dont want to be stuck dead last.

Any input will be appreciated!

Yeah, they're not real high-revvers, but then again neither are AMC 304's, or for that matter most stock V8's from the 70's. I wouldn't worry about a regear either, or lockers for that matter. Get the best tires under it you can afford & go from there.

What are the most popular mud tires?

Super Swampers?

TSL's?

Mud terrains?

Thanks for all the help!

What are the most popular mud tires?


Boggers, TSL's, and the old bias ply Gateway Buckshot Mudders (not the Maxxis radials, & not the Gumbo Mudders). For a low-power rig, I prefer all TSL's as they self-clean better than the Boggers & require less power to turn. Tall is good, narrow is good. 34X9.50's & Q78's are real popular in 36" classes. Buckshots in P78 (33), Q78 (35), and R85 (37) also work great, or Boggers in 33X10.50 or 35X10.50, but again the Boggers really zap your power.

Im a bit confused between TSL's and Boggers. Are they two different things? Because I found some TSL Boggers...(http://www.offroaders.com/tech/AT-MT-Tires/SuperSwamperBogger.htm)

Should I stay away from those for a toyota? Scout?

or should I use these:http://www.stylintrucks.com/parts.aspx?partid=596074&x=899703&scid=FROOGLE ?

Where is the best place to buy tires from?

Would these fit on stock toyota rims? Stock scout rims?


Thanks!

Im a bit confused between TSL's and Boggers. Are they two different things? Because I found some TSL Boggers...(http://www.offroaders.com/tech/AT-MT-Tires/SuperSwamperBogger.htm)

Should I stay away from those for a toyota? Scout?

or should I use these:http://www.stylintrucks.com/parts.aspx?partid=596074&x=899703&scid=FROOGLE ?

Where is the best place to buy tires from?

Would these fit on stock toyota rims? Stock scout rims?


Thanks!TSL means three stage lug, as in there are three distinct different lug profiles on one tire. Both the boggers and the TSL have this trait. But when most people say TSL, they are referiing to the second example you gave. If I were you though, I would go with a bias ply TSL, not the radial.

TSL means three stage lug, as in there are three distinct different lug profiles on one tire. Both the boggers and the TSL have this trait. But when most people say TSL, they are referiing to the second example you gave. If I were you though, I would go with a bias ply TSL, not the radial.

Yes, what he said. "TSL" is used generically to describe the bias-ply TSL, non-SX. And those would be your best bet IMO.