looking to do a spring over on my scout II who can do it and how much $$$$$ are we looking at?

have you tried this:



http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/top_search.gif (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?s=)

there's always tons of people pimping their services....., or you could just do it yourself.... like the rest of us....

but it looks like a pain in the butt having to grind part of the diff housing for spring perch. would it be easier to just go full width running gear???

Originally posted by Z GUY
but it looks like a pain in the butt having to grind part of the diff housing for spring perch. would it be easier to just go full width running gear???

It's not that I don't want to give you an answer, it is just that there is no correct answer. You need to search, read all the pros and cons that have been kicked around over and over on this board, then decide for yourself what you want to do.....

To be short in answering your question on the perches and grinding, yes.... and no.

Sorry. No black and white. Time to hit the books for you...

hmmmmm might be time for old style bronco set up:D

Originally posted by Z GUY
hmmmmm might be time for old style bronco set up:D

Coils are cool:smokin: :cool2:

Originally posted by Old Scout


Coils are cool:smokin: :cool2:

yep and if you think SOA's are compex.... ;)

Originally posted by scoutabout
but it looks like a pain in the butt having to grind part of the diff housing for spring perch. would it be easier to just go full width running gear??? You grind it, then you weld the spring spacer where you ground on the dif. I'v done many of these.

This get's old.

I wish someone would just frigging make a cast iron mate to fit where the ubolts wrap on the pass side of the 44 housing. Come to think of it, cast with a flat upper surface would be perfect.

:D

Originally posted by iscout62
I wish someone would just frigging make a cast iron mate to fit where the ubolts wrap on the pass side of the 44 housing. Come to think of it, cast with a flat upper surface would be perfect.

:D
Pinion angles are going to be different for different rigs... what's wrong with welding your own damn perch on right where you need it. :rolleyes: This isn't the 'bolt-on' forum:flipoff2:

Originally posted by TORC

Pinion angles are going to be different for different rigs... what's wrong with welding your own damn perch on right where you need it. :rolleyes: This isn't the 'bolt-on' forum:flipoff2:

IT'S NOT!!! :eek:......DAMN!! I guess I'd better go visit JU then....Think they'll notice I drive a ScoutII??

Yadda-Yadda-fuggin-yadda.

I'd rater paint my neighbors house than sit there with an angle grinder for half a day flattening the perch out. Besides, welding steel to iron is not my forte....

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :)

Originally posted by iscout62
Yadda-Yadda-fuggin-yadda.

I'd rater paint my neighbors house than sit there with an angle grinder for half a day flattening the perch out. Besides, welding steel to iron is not my forte....
There are lots of things I would rather do instead of grinding... use your friggin' head for something besides a hat rack. I spent about 10 minutes with the Sawzall and removed the bulk of the material. Another 20 minutes or so with grinder and it was done. The housings on 44's are Ductile (Nodular) iron and not cast iron. If you can weld steel to steel, then you can weld a steel perch to the ductile housing. No special degree needed..... But if playing with all the colors of the :rainbow: is your forte, then stick with what works...:flipoff2:

Originally posted by iscout62
Yadda-Yadda-fuggin-yadda.

I'd rater paint my neighbors house than sit there with an angle grinder for half a day flattening the perch out. Besides, welding steel to iron is not my forte....

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :)

sawsall,porta band, cut off wheels go right thru it!

I'll have a set of SOA axles available in about a month if you're interested. They need work but it's a good start.

Let me know if you're interested.

I think I ground mine down in about 1 1/2 hours. You guys using those wimpy Harbor Freight grinders? I got a nice 7amp from Sears - still cheap but works great. It's not that bad to do yourself. Just do it!

Ritch

never mind going full width 44 with coils and radius arms

anyone need stock scout 44's 353 gears

Originally posted by scoutabout
never mind going full width 44 with coils and radius arms

anyone need stock scout 44's 353 gears

My neighbor might need them. I'll check tomorrow. PM me what you want for them.

What are your new axles out of? Sounds like a great choice!

I know wider is better, but,,,,, Most trails are not letting full size rigs in to the trails. The wider axles make you more stable, but tears the bark off the tree when you make that squeaze...

Been there done that......

Originally posted by IH Scout II
I know wider is better, but,,,,, Most trails are not letting full size rigs in to the trails. The wider axles make you more stable, but tears the bark off the tree when you make that squeaze...

Been there done that......

You just have to learn how to drive:flipoff2:

Chances are, if you are wheelin a scout II on trails too tight for full width you are already scraping something with the fat ass sheetmetal. Full width axles with normal backspaced wheels (3.5 or more) don't stick out 'that' much from the fenders.

This has nothing to do with the situation, but : If I put normal wheels (has stock 6+" backspacing)on my daily driver dodge 2500 the tires would stick out further from the fenders than full widths on my scout.

If my memory is correct, full size gear is at least seven inches wider..... As far as a Scout owner spending hard earned cash on NEW wheels, I find that hard to believe. Scout owners take the time to do their own work, cause they don’t have the money to take it to someone else. Most free or cheap after market wheels do not have a custom offset. So,,, You are at least Eight inches total wider..
One of the Jeep trails here has steel gate that does not allow wider trucks to pass. Scouts are the largest to pass.. If you tear up your sheet metal, that is a whole new issue..
Wider is better, just not going to be able to get in.... Legally...

Later...

Almost wider is better.

I went 64.25 in front, and 63.5 in back. Nice width, not to wide, but wide enough. With 15x8 wheels and 12.5 tires my width is about 80" on the mark. For me full-width ~67" is a tad too wide.

Looking at my rig it's hard to tell I've swapped the axles.

Joe

Originally posted by IH Scout II
If my memory is correct, full size gear is at least seven inches wider..... As far as a Scout owner spending hard earned cash on NEW wheels, I find that hard to believe. Scout owners take the time to do their own work, cause they don’t have the money to take it to someone else. Most free or cheap after market wheels do not have a custom offset. So,,, You are at least Eight inches total wider..
One of the Jeep trails here has steel gate that does not allow wider trucks to pass. Scouts are the largest to pass.. If you tear up your sheet metal, that is a whole new issue..
Wider is better, just not going to be able to get in.... Legally...

Later...

Don't know where you get 7 inches. I cut the GM front housing down 6 inches. That is only 3 inches per side. Don't know what kind of rigs run down there, but few rigs that fit anything larger than 35's are scout width. You just get too high to fit the tires, and you have to go wider to get stability. Most stock scouts are *narrow* compared to rigs with big tires up here. If you have metal gates that are just wide enough to allow scouts and nothing larger through, you must have a bunch of sammy's running around on weak trails.

And, most scout owners don't do their own work because they cannot afford to pay someone else to do it. We do it because we like to do it ourselves, we want to make sure it is done right, and we make sure we know how to fix it on the trail when something goes wrong.

I don't build my rig cheap. I build it well, for as little cost as possible. Big difference. And, I think most folks on this board are the same.

Back to the subject at hand.

With all the time you have spent typing, you could have already ground the pumpkin down. Or, get a GM axle, whack the ends off, and use the cast perch. Or use the cast perch and add shims, or a dozen different solutions. This is not brain surgery, and we have gone over and over and over this. I sent you a link that clearly delineated what I had to do to get a GM to work. There are tons of threads with step by step directions.

Just search, and do some homework, and stop looking for an easy way out.

Here is the obligatory smiley

Originally posted by iscout62
Yadda-Yadda-fuggin-yadda.

I'd rater paint my neighbors house than sit there with an angle grinder for half a day flattening the perch out. Besides, welding steel to iron is not my forte....

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :)

Did someone wake you up this morning and tell you a SOA took no time and no work, and no skill?

You don't want to grind, and you can't weld, but you want to do a SOA and want to know how.

Here is how. You cut, you grind, and you weld. Bolt on forum is elsewhere.

If you don't want to grind and you can't weld, you find a friend and bribe him/her. Or else, you take it to a shop and tell them to do it.

And, if none of these alternatives are acceptable, you wheel it as is because there is no way to do a save SOA without some cutting, some grinding, and some welding.

Originally posted by Hooper


Did someone wake you up this morning and tell you a SOA took no time and no work, and no skill?

You don't want to grind, and you can't weld, but you want to do a SOA and want to know how.

Here is how. You cut, you grind, and you weld. Bolt on forum is elsewhere.

If you don't want to grind and you can't weld, you find a friend and bribe him/her. Or else, you take it to a shop and tell them to do it.

And, if none of these alternatives are acceptable, you wheel it as is because there is no way to do a save SOA without some cutting, some grinding, and some welding.

I'm with Pat on this. If you don't want to do the work, and you don't want to pay someone, then you really don't want to wheel with an SOA that bad. I've spent 11 months working on a truck I have never seen on the road. I pray that it works when I'm done. I just keep on building. I want it that bad and I know what I want it to do - so I am building to meet my needs not anyone elses.

If you want it - Build it!
Good luck.

Ritch

Originally posted by nwmud


I'm with Pat on this. If you don't want to do the work, and you don't want to pay someone, then you really don't want to wheel with an SOA that bad. I've spent 11 months working on a truck I have never seen on the road. I pray that it works when I'm done. I just keep on building. I want it that bad and I know what I want it to do - so I am building to meet my needs not anyone elses.

If you want it - Build it!
Good luck.

Ritch

Now Muddy, you have seen yours on the road,, just not under its own power... ;)

We have a pool going to see who is on the road first, you or Rob Eggleston..... :D

Originally posted by Hooper


Here is how. You cut, you grind, and you weld. Bolt on forum is elsewhere.
there is no way to do a save SOA without some cutting, some grinding, and some welding.

I guess I did something wrong with my no-cutting, no-grinding, no-welding SOA...

OK, I had to grind a little on the perches...

:D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I guess I did something wrong with my no-cutting, no-grinding, no-welding SOA...

OK, I had to grind a little on the perches...

:D

Actually, you didn't even need to do that. You could have simply used recessed spring plates and not even needed to notch your perches. Course, you have to tweak your springs a little, you have nasty driveline angles, and you are now full width, but, as you say, if you can live with those things, it is almost bolt on. Not that I would recommend it as a good way to do a SOA, but, it works.... kind of.

Hooper,

I do this for a living, so I am totally aware of what is, and what is not. Here is a link for you..... http://www.lanset.com/4x4guru/baby%20pics.htm in fact, every one feel free to check it out.... You will see a wider axle, not full size.. I consider a full size to be 67 inches. A scout rear axle is 60 inches wide. In the pics, the tire size is 35in. I got tired of the 38, 36, Swampers. The rig next to it is next.....


I stopped trying to sell parts to scout guys, cause they, I, can do it my self. Wich is also much cheaper. Yes, I am cheap... I have built about six custom scouts, of my own... Getting ready for another. Looking for a good donor rig for SMOG LAW reasons.
Just because I am a newbie to this forum, does not make me a newbie to this adventure....

I am old school, I run what I brung... Legal to drive to where ever I want, and wheel where ever I wish to go... I think FULL size axle also look STUPID.... I hate mud flaps, and extended wheel covers.....


As far as grinding an axle, I started doing this at least 12 to 15 years ago. Yes I have done it. Is it the correct thing to do? NO... The housing is weakened when it is done. Is the Chevy, dodge axle better, yes. Is wider more stable, again yes is this my opinion? Yes.... Do what ever makes your skirt blow, I am to old, and tired to try to tell you any thing. I am only attempting to make things easier on others from my experiences.

The trails in California, and other states are being closed down for all sorts of DUMB reasons.. By going to wider axles, old trails with narrow passes are being bypassed. Making new trails around old trails, For this reason, we are giving the FEDS more reasons to CLOSE DOWN GREAT TRAILS......


So, for my own reasons, I don’t like "FULL WIDTH" axles...
Later...

Again, this is my persona opinion......

http://atlas.binderbulletin.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2614


http://atlas.binderbulletin.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2426

Now here are causes worth arguing, it starts in a corner, and grows.....

Originally posted by IH Scout II
Hooper,

I do this for a living, so I am totally aware of what is, and what is not. Here is a link for you..... http://www.lanset.com/4x4guru/baby%20pics.htm in fact, every one feel free to check it out.... You will see a wider axle, not full size.. I consider a full size to be 67 inches. A scout rear axle is 60 inches wide. In the pics, the tire size is 35in. I got tired of the 38, 36, Swampers. The rig next to it is next.....


I stopped trying to sell parts to scout guys, cause they, I, can do it my self. Wich is also much cheaper. Yes, I am cheap... I have built about six custom scouts, of my own... Getting ready for another. Looking for a good donor rig for SMOG LAW reasons.
Just because I am a newbie to this forum, does not make me a newbie to this adventure....

I am old school, I run what I brung... Legal to drive to where ever I want, and wheel where ever I wish to go... I think FULL size axle also look STUPID.... I hate mud flaps, and extended wheel covers.....


As far as grinding an axle, I started doing this at least 12 to 15 years ago. Yes I have done it. Is it the correct thing to do? NO... The housing is weakened when it is done. Is the Chevy, dodge axle better, yes. Is wider more stable, again yes is this my opinion? Yes.... Do what ever makes your skirt blow, I am to old, and tired to try to tell you any thing. I am only attempting to make things easier on others from my experiences.

The trails in California, and other states are being closed down for all sorts of DUMB reasons.. By going to wider axles, old trails with narrow passes are being bypassed. Making new trails around old trails, For this reason, we are giving the FEDS more reasons to CLOSE DOWN GREAT TRAILS......


So, for my own reasons, I don’t like "FULL WIDTH" axles...
Later...

Again, this is my persona opinion......

That's a purty rig. Not a dent or a scratch on it. I would have done a couple things a little different, but to each his own.

I don't think I was arguing for full width axles. I was telling whoever it was that started this thread to go do some homework, use the search function, then figure out what would work for him.

I don't have full width axles for several reasons. Asthetics being one of them, but, to each his/her own.

I currently only run 33" tires cuz I can't afford gears. But, many of the rigs I run with are on 38 and larger. Makes it tough on me.

Larger tires have lots of advantages.

My point was that larger tires require wider axle because you need to raise the rig to clear the tires, if you want to flex, and to maintain stability with a taller rig you need a wider stance. It is all trade offs.

Don't remember saying anything about you being a newbie...

Also, I don't remember encouraging anyone to grind the diff. I used a GM axle so I didn't have to grind the diff, precisely because of what you mentioned. It theoretically *weakens* the housing, although I have never heard of an axle failing due to the housing being ground for a perch.

So, I agree with most of what you said.

As far as *doing it for a living*. Lots of folks do mods and custom mods for a living. Doesn't mean they know what they are doing. Not saying you don't know what you are doing, your rig looks nice, but just being in the business does not get anyone a get out of jail free card.

Only thing that carries weight with me is finished product performance. My rig is not all that great, and I am not trying to say it is. Nor am I saying I am an expert at all. I do my own work, as you do, so I talk from my experience. Someone elses experience may vary greatly. That is why we have this forum.

You sound like you know what you are talking about. Great. Welcome to the IH forum. But don't try to tell me I do things cheap because I can't afford to pay someone else to do it. Too general of a statement for my liking.

Now that you have your baby put together, isn't it time to get it out and get it dirty??

Originally posted by Hooper


Now Muddy, you have seen yours on the road,, just not under its own power... ;)

We have a pool going to see who is on the road first, you or Rob Eggleston..... :D

So I am racing with Rob - Wow, hope he wins.

I have so many little issues - like radiator, brake lines, drive lines, electrical, exhaust, fuel system (too bad I can't just drive around with a hose in a gas can), and steering.
But the SOA is in, the engine runs great, and I have enough body parts to make a couple real ugly scouts.

I got 6 drivelines and not one fits. I got 3 radiators and not one holds water. I got two sets of front brakes and not a good hose in the group.

Guess I need another trip to pull a part and see if I can find something that fits...

Ritch
Look out Rob, it's almost there.

BTW - I build my stuff cause I want to, I get to know everything about my rig & I AM CHEAP!

I may have garbled a few threads together, for that I apologize..
I sold that rig to my son about six months ago, and he has found that wheeling is a expensive trade off. One he has found to be enjoyable, and uses lots of common sense as well.
That particular rig was my daily driver, hunting rig, racecar, and wheeler. With four kids, and lots of bills, I never try to live outside of my abilities. I wheel when I have time and extra cash... Body parts are getting limited and expensive, so I use extra caution..

My next rig is going to be strong, but still no wider than stock but soft spoken. I want to run 33s, but my ego may hurt me and wind up on 35s again.


Those of you out there wanting full width axles, Hoop is correct it has trade offs. Not only the ones listed in this string, but also ones on your frame. Be prepared for lots more frame work....

Have fun and great wheeling..

Keep the trails open for our kids kids....



Later,,,,

Originally posted by IH Scout II
I may have garbled a few threads together, for that I apologize..
I sold that rig to my son about six months ago, and he has found that wheeling is a expensive trade off. One he has found to be enjoyable, and uses lots of common sense as well.
That particular rig was my daily driver, hunting rig, racecar, and wheeler. With four kids, and lots of bills, I never try to live outside of my abilities. I wheel when I have time and extra cash... Body parts are getting limited and expensive, so I use extra caution..

My next rig is going to be strong, but still no wider than stock but soft spoken. I want to run 33s, but my ego may hurt me and wind up on 35s again.


Those of you out there wanting full width axles, Hoop is correct it has trade offs. Not only the ones listed in this string, but also ones on your frame. Be prepared for lots more frame work....

Have fun and great wheeling..

Keep the trails open for our kids kids....



Later,,,,

Sheet metal is pricey. And I keep accumulating these

http://www.nwbinders.net/Trails/WalkerValley/July2002/HooperLowerDent.JPG

35's sound good to me, also. Sure could have used them last weekend!!

Originally posted by IH Scout II
Hooper, I do this for a living, so I am totally aware of what is, and what is not. Here is a link for you..... http://www.lanset.com/4x4guru/baby%20pics.htm in fact, every one feel free to check it out....

That really is a nice Scout there IH.

I think though that as far as wider, bigger, etc. goes, we are talking about entirely different applications. I can't speak for the other guys, but my REAL WIDE rig is being built for is rock crawling. Obviously though, I have to be concerned with width and treading lightly because I drive through general trails to get to the major obstacles.

I did pose the question in the Rubicon Trail Forum before my build up and the general consensus was that It was not too wide for MOST trails. So I built it. Then I ran it.

The last trip out on the Con was my first with the wide axles. While I had to re-learn how to drive and pick entirely new lines, I didn't damage any trees, spin till I dug ruts, etc. I did however split my weak ass frame at the steering box on both sides.

I do go camping with my family all the time though and I can't see driving my, now buggy, to these general wheeling/camping areas. My wife and I are currently negotiating a Scout vs. Wagoneer for those trips.

I think I am agreeing with you?:rasta: I just wanted to point out that what's good for the goose........

Regards,
JoshC

Originally posted by JoshC


I do go camping with my family all the time though and I can't see driving my, now buggy, to these general wheeling/camping areas. My wife and I are currently negotiating a Scout vs. Wagoneer for those trips.



80's Grand Wagoneer w/ leather and AC. :D :D Bolt in Dana 300, SOA w/ 33's. That would be a sweet camping rig. :)

Originally posted by JoshC

I think though that as far as wider, bigger, etc. goes, we are talking about entirely different applications.

Dude, you are beyond wide, your past full-width :eek: You fawking rear tires are in different time zones :flipoff2:

Do you have to pay long distance changes when you call someone on the other side of the Scout????

Originally posted by jdjanda


Dude, you are beyond wide, your past full-width :eek: You fawking rear tires are in different time zones :flipoff2:

Do you have to pay long distance changes when you call someone on the other side of the Scout????



jealous? ;)

Originally posted by mike




jealous? ;)

Nope, I like my inbetween stock and full width. 64 is where it is at:p

Originally posted by Hooper


notch your perches. Course, you have to tweak your springs a little, you have nasty driveline angles, and you are now full width, but, as you say, if you can live with those things, it is almost bolt on. Not that I would recommend it as a good way to do a SOA, but, it works.... kind of.

Ouch. :flipoff2:

I didn't tweak the springs any more than flipping the center pins over.

The driveline angle wasn't so bad before the RS.. at the limit, but I haven't spit a single U-joint out yet.. which is more than I can say for my trail rig, with "just" a 4" lift that eats front U-joints and transmission mounts.. and it doesn't see full throttle and full droop nearly as often.

Originally posted by IH Scout II
Body parts are getting limited and expensive, so I use extra caution..


I thought body parts were optional? :D

And 'glass isn't that expensive..



Those of you out there wanting full width axles, Hoop is correct it has trade offs. Not only the ones listed in this string, but also ones on your frame. Be prepared for lots more frame work....


My frame has held up just fine to the full-width axles.

And my un-ground Chevy front diff has been destroyed once already.. broke the cast iron center section, ripping the long-side tube out pretty cleanly.. yet the frame was fine..

And since half of my 4x4 club are fullsize Ford Broncos, even if I go full-width on my trail rig, I'll still have a skinnier body..

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Ouch. :flipoff2:

I didn't tweak the springs any more than flipping the center pins over.

The driveline angle wasn't so bad before the RS.. at the limit, but I haven't spit a single U-joint out yet.. which is more than I can say for my trail rig, with "just" a 4" lift that eats front U-joints and transmission mounts.. and it doesn't see full throttle and full droop nearly as often.

You only think you didn't have to tweak your springs, because you had to tweak your triangles so bad to get them to fit on your wheeler. ;) the the tweaking for the SOA was minor by comparison. The springs have to be *spread* a little to get the center pins to pop into the holes in the perches.....

:D

Originally posted by Hooper


You only think you didn't have to tweak your springs, because you had to tweak your triangles so bad to get them to fit on your wheeler. ;) the the tweaking for the SOA was minor by comparison. The springs have to be *spread* a little to get the center pins to pop into the holes in the perches.....

:D

I'm running Skyjackers, y'know. :D

And yes, the SOA "tweaking" (spraying the springs out 1/2") was a lot easier than getting the Skyjackers to line up..

I for one, LUV the Firebird Steering Wheel...:D

Josh, forget the Wagoneer....

Go with a Cruiser (83-89 FJ-60/62)....

It'll make you get rid of the oil-oozing rover you got in the driveway...

M:flipoff2:

Bigger better? I think so cause I like doing things like this:

http://home.earthlink.net/~curtismm/rubicon2002/sluice001.jpg
and this:
http://home.earthlink.net/~curtismm/rubicon2002/sluice002.jpg

Anyway, as for the SOA, I'll do it for ya for a price, and I'm just 20 miles from ya too :D Call me 530-865-2981

Piss off.

My SOA is done.

:flipoff2:

Corse no one has mentioned chucking the housing up in a mill and milling the pad to the right degree.

So ritch if ya dont have the rig on the road by the next week or so you aint gonna win. Left to do is Powder coat bumpers, nerf bars, and battery boxes, then bolt on and wire winch. I do need to add a few more rear floor braces then bolt the roll cage in. To top it off i will bend up the new cage kit front and rear.
Robs not on this list but he will be happy.