I have a TH350, NP203, D300 combo with 4.10 gears in the axles already in the truck. It's not running yet, but it's been brought to my attention that I could have some trouble stopping when I am in low low. Does anyone have any experience with it? The axles are 1-ton in a CJ5 with a 350sbc.

J. J.

You could always knock the tranny into neutral :flipoff2:

Slow down your idle speed, or you might even have to go to a converter with a little bit of stall to it. I kind of have the same trouble with my mud racer, 1,100 RPM idle & stock converter.

TEX

I'm running 370:1 with a measley 230hp v6. In low low first gear, the ebrakes and mashing the brake pedal will not stop my truck at idle.

You get used to it, over it and figure it out so it doesn't cause you any problems.

Originally posted by Belly Dragger
I'm running 370:1 with a measley 230hp v6. In low low first gear, the ebrakes and mashing the brake pedal will not stop my truck at idle.

You get used to it, over it and figure it out so it doesn't cause you any problems.

Quit Bragging LOL

I wouldn't worry about it. Heavy equipment 1st gear is made to drive through the parking & brake pedal (although not at idle), in case there is a problem w/ the brakes & the machine has to move from the haul road.
You'll get used to it.

I can stop mine at will... th350/203/205/4.10 45" tires, but I do have disc brakes in the rear. Stock Converter. and 500 rpm idle. It is hard to stop it when the throttle sticks or you have your foot on the gas :D

Originally posted by patooyee
I have a TH350, NP203, D300 combo with 4.10 gears in the axles already in the truck. It's not running yet, but it's been brought to my attention that I could have some trouble stopping when I am in low low. J. J.

you got a bit carried away.

what you've got is = 3.06x1.96x2.62x4.10x2(torque converter)=
=129:1 crawl ratio.

that is NOT going to stop you in low low, unless your brakes suck.

Originally posted by the frog


you got a bit carried away.

what you've got is = 3.06x1.96x2.62x4.10x2(torque converter)=
=129:1 crawl ratio.

that is NOT going to stop you in low low, unless your brakes suck.

Its not even that low. TH350 only has 2.52 for a first gear. 3.06 is the 700R4. I thought the 203 had a 2:1 low range. The 205 has 1.96:1

I have 2.74/4/5.13 and can stop easily with front and rear disk. With the rear drum it is harder to stop at idle.

Originally posted by the frog


you got a bit carried away.

what you've got is = 3.06x1.96x2.62x4.10x2(torque converter)=
=129:1 crawl ratio.

What's wrong with that :confused: I run 190:1, granted I only use when I feel the need, but I don't have to worry about stalling. Or I just run my 4.0 case which is 84:1, which works well on the easier suff. Never had a problem stopping and my brakes suck...all three of them :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Bones


What's wrong with that :confused: I run 190:1

sorry Bones, i did'nt mean carried away by the 129:1 which is not that low IMHO, but carried away by the fear of not being able to stop......

i used to run, get this - 3.93x4x4x4.88(ax-15;teralow in NP-231;
Klune-V;4.88 R&P), so i know what it's like to run 300:1!!!

with such low-low-low, you really CANNOT stop - you can push the pedal as hard as you want but this incredible torque just chews it's way forward with no stopping. the fun part was to start the motor w/o having to use the clutch, letting the rig climb almost every reasonable ledge by itself, and getting out of the rig ang walking alongside it, or even sitting down for a short rest while the rig goes on and on and on, inch by inch:eek:

there is'nt much use, though, for such low gears and sometimes(like in steep downhill slopes) it can get VERY DANGEROUS!

Barry

Originally posted by the frog

there is'nt much use, though, for such low gears and sometimes(like in steep downhill slopes) it can get VERY DANGEROUS!

Barry
I totally agree with you there. While testing my 4runner in Disney, I was going down a steep hill (mainly dirt, etc) then at the bottom it drops off BIG TIME and turns to mossy rock and I was in silly low and had to just push in the clutch to keep from doing an endo. :D (wife liked that :rolleyes: ) So yes it can be a hinderance or help you roll as well. I learned that low low was better for decents like that than low low low.. :eek:

That's what the clutch pedal is for :flipoff2:

OK. So what I've got is 2.52x2x2x2.62x4.1. (Tranny*torque converter*203*300*axle.) I get that to be about 121:1. Ya'll think I'll be OK with the 1-ton discs in the front and drums in the rear?

J. J.

Careful of pushing the clutch in while in low low low... I know of guys who have EXPLODED clutch disks doing this. If you are in low low low and push in the clutch and get rolling say 10 or 15 miles an hour, how fast is the clutch disk turning? Probably 20,000 rpm or some other equally stupid speed...

Originally posted by patooyee
OK. So what I've got is 2.52x2x2x2.62x4.1. (Tranny*torque converter*203*300*axle.) I get that to be about 121:1. Ya'll think I'll be OK with the 1-ton discs in the front and drums in the rear?

J. J.

I've talked to Marlin about this as I have an auto tranny in my tacoma. He told me a story about a guy with an auto tranny testing out his crawler who destroyed the side of his truck because it wouldn't stop. I guess it went into a tree and kept on going. The torque converter can do much more than 2:1 reduction just as it can also do 1:1. You will most likely need to throw it in neutral to stop.

OK. So what I've got is 2.52x2x2x2.62x4.1. (Tranny*torque converter*203*300*axle.) I get that to be about 121:1. Ya'll think I'll be OK with the 1-ton discs in the front and drums in the rear?

You will stop just fine. Period. That combo will not be a problem to stop. No way. No how, is that going to be a problem.

If people are having problems with the above combo they have mechanical problems that they should have worked out before they spent the money on a doubler. :D If the idle is too high, there will definately be a problem stoping, even with out a doubler.

Brook

I am 160:1 with 4 wheel disk and hydro boost. No way to stop it. It ripped the rear caliper brackets off the housing. I have enough torque and brakes to blow a driveline apart.

Maybe running a manual valve body and putting it in drive when you need to may help with the stopping?

Your running an automatic, I dont see a problem at all.

Originally posted by spoolnaround
Your running an automatic, I dont see a problem at all.

Ah grasshopper, there is a problem....

Originally posted by spoolnaround
Your running an automatic, I dont see a problem at all.


Why not? ... I would think and auto would be more problem than a stick, but what do I know...

Unless your motor idles a 1K RPM why wouldnt the torqe conv do its job?

Originally posted by Keith


Ah grasshopper, there is a problem....

explain........ What am I missing?

With a stick arent you in neutral at a stop anyway?

I blew the clutch in my old Toyota at Pismo one time and it bound all the broken stuff with the pressure plate= no clutch at all. I had to shut it off at a stop, start it in gear to go and shift without a clutch. Drove it like that for a week untill I had time to fix it.

Originally posted by spoolnaround
I blew the clutch in my old Toyota at Pismo one time and it bound all the broken stuff with the pressure plate= no clutch at all. I had to shut it off at a stop, start it in gear to go and shift without a clutch. Drove it like that for a week untill I had time to fix it.


WOW... that awsome

yea watch out w/ that tranny in gear w/ low low and the clutch in.. that shit'll start spinning WAY faster than it's designed to go.. just rolling back down a hill w/ the clutch in and tranny in reverse can do this..

as for the question at hand.. if u can't stop put it in neutral or park.. or go the stall converter route.. make sure u got 4 disk brakes.. try a manual valve body.. just figure something out if it doesn't stop.. don't worry about it now.. wait till it's a problem.. u want the low gears don't ya?? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by reddwarf
That's what the clutch pedal is for :flipoff2: You got a lot more control in gear than out of it that's the point. Takes everything in me not to put my foot in the clutch unless I really have to.

Originally posted by Belly Dragger
I'm running 370:1 with a measley 230hp v6. In low low first gear, the ebrakes and mashing the brake pedal will not stop my truck at idle.

You get used to it, over it and figure it out so it doesn't cause you any problems.

How many inches per minute are you?

bump

This is kinda off topic, but has to do with some of the answers...

About letting the clutch out while in low low low or however low should not matter. The clutch only spins as fast as the motor. Remember, when it is engaged, it is "connected" to the engine. So there is no way it can spin a 20,000Rpm or whatever the one guy said. It is only spinning as fast as the motor.

Now as far as when you let the clutch back out what that does..I am unsure. But the worse thing you would have to do is burp the throttle to match hte engine speed to what it should be, then let the clutch out.

Please correct me if wrong.

Steve

Never mind...I just read his post again and realized he was talking about when you get the vehicle moving 10-15mph. I could see how it would be spinning pretty fast then.

Originally posted by Kicker
This is kinda off topic, but has to do with some of the answers...

About letting the clutch out while in low low low or however low should not matter. The clutch only spins as fast as the motor. Remember, when it is engaged, it is "connected" to the engine. So there is no way it can spin a 20,000Rpm or whatever the one guy said. It is only spinning as fast as the motor.

Now as far as when you let the clutch back out what that does..I am unsure. But the worse thing you would have to do is burp the throttle to match hte engine speed to what it should be, then let the clutch out.

Please correct me if wrong.

Steve

no dude, the problem shows up w/ the clutch pressed IN (aka disenguaged) w/ the tranny in gear and the tcases in low range reduction.. if u start rolling (like a neutral roll cause the clutch petal is in) then the drivetrain is being driven now by the turning of the tires as the truck rolls.. now everything is turning as fast as the tires are turning it until u hit the motor, where's it's spinning fast as idle cause they're disconnected.. .

here's my feeble attempt at a simple explanation:
now imagine a truck w/ really low gears.. let's say some sort of "low-low" 1st gear while in low low is SLOW! if u've seen a low geared truck u know what i mean... now this fictitious truck is moving so slow u can't see it, but let's assume the motor is spinning 3000 rpm's.. therefore the tranny is spinning the SAME speed as if it were 3000 rpm's in 1st gear and high high.. now think how many rpm's would be needed to go as fast as high high 1st while in low low 1st.. couldn't be done right?? now think how fast your tranny would turn if u were doing 30 mph in this low low 1st range gear... possible only if u push the clutch in, roll to a speed of 30 mph while leaving everything in gear.. now do u see how fast this input to the tranny would have to be moving?? clutch go :nuke:

i know that probably sounds stupid as shit, but it's hard to explain thru written words alone.. if anything's unclear i could attempt to make it better..

Originally posted by Kicker
Never mind...I just read his post again and realized he was talking about when you get the vehicle moving 10-15mph. I could see how it would be spinning pretty fast then.


LOL.. now u tell me.. :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Place your hand on the key and turn the vehicle off.

Guys, guys, guys....this whole thread started out with someone asking if their vehicle could STOP while in super-low....not whether they should push in the clutch with the truck rolling or how much control they have with the clutch pushed:rolleyes:

At least try tp stick to the topic...

Originally posted by reddwarf
Guys, guys, guys....this whole thread started out with someone asking if their vehicle could STOP while in super-low....not whether they should push in the clutch with the truck rolling or how much control they have with the clutch pushed:rolleyes:

At least try tp stick to the topic...

hey man the topic broadened.. he got the answer to his question..